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colbra
13th Jul 2004, 06:09 PM
Hi every one
Being new to woodturning and having no experience with sharpening associated tools especially gouges I thought I would invest in a grinding jig until my skill level develops to free hand.
I have taken advice offered from my last thread and bought a cheaper set of HSS tools from Carb- Tec that I can learn on and sharpen properly as advised.
The jigs that I have heard about are UNIJIG, HELLIGRIND and a few others that I canít recall can anyone recommend any of these jigs, I have seen a review on the unijig on this forum as always any input or advice would be appreciated
Regards Colbra :)

hotrod100
13th Jul 2004, 08:10 PM
Hi Colbra
I can relate to your plight 100%, as I ,like you am a newcomer to this woodturning business and this sharpening certainly look's like a daughting task to be mastered.
I took the advice given many ,many, times on this forum and joined a woodturning club a couple of week's ago,( to keep me out of trouble) I find the security of having someone looking over my shoulder ,and offering advice when needed is invaluable.So my advice to you would be, if you have a club in your area ,I would strongly recommend that you consider joining, have fun. :D
Rod

Christopha
13th Jul 2004, 08:57 PM
Having demonstrated all sorts of grinding jigs at many woodshows I would suggest that you invest your dollars in club membership/ lessons..... most jigs are slow to use, difficult to set up for different tools (gouge to skew etc.), bloody expensive and in the long run don't work particularly well. I suggest that you remember that most jig dmonstrators are experienced professionals who know how to make the jig look good for the newchum.

colbra
13th Jul 2004, 09:01 PM
Hi Rod
Thanks for your advice I have only just joined a club I find there help invaluable and great bunch of people there ready to help
Regards Col :)

smidsy
14th Jul 2004, 12:54 AM
Hei Colbra,
Do yourself a favour and check with your club before you buy any jigs.
My club has jigs of their own design, which are simple to make and the plans are available to members.
Cheers
Smidsy

Alastair
14th Jul 2004, 12:05 PM
Colbra

Speaking as one who was initially self taught, and recently has been doing the TAFE course, I am a firm (though belated) believer in grinding jigs.

In my early days, I ground away heaps of (fortunately cheap) steel, trying to maintain the original profiles of my tools, and trying to make them cut. The drift from the original was considerable, and the latter achieved infrequently.

More recently, I have been instructed at TAFE in the correct techniques of freehand grinding. I have also made up my own grinding jig, along the same principle as the Unijig. (Too cheap to spend the $$$ for the real thing)

Where does that leave me? Properly done, freehand grinding is the go, particularly for the professional turner, as there is no loss of time: step from the lathe to grinder, a quick touch, and back to turning (I am not a honer!). What this idyllic picture misses is that freehand grinding is DIFFICULT. If you are not doing it all the time, you will not get repeatable results, and will waste a lot of steel. To support this:

1. I turn at TAFE twice a week, and at home most weekends, thus probably more than many hobbyists. I have been taught to freehand. I still stuff it up regularly.
2. The tools at TAFE, supposedly ground by similarly "trained" students are infinitely variable in grind, and often wrong, except when ground by the professionals.

In contrast, at home, even with my home grown jig, it probably takes me 2 minutes to set up my jig to the previous settings when I change tools, and 30 seconds to return the same tool to the jig for regrinding. Once in, grinding takes maybe 30 seconds, and removes virtually no steel. In fact, I have at times finished grinding, and switched off before the grinder has hit full revs.

To conclude, I concur with Smidsy and Hotrod. Talk to your club mates, and try out different jigs until you find one that works for you, before you shell out $$. (Or rip off the design and make your own!!)

Alastair

(Sorry, I'll rephrase that: "Borrow with pride!")

If it will help, I am happy to post photos of mine if wanted. (and when I can borrow a camera)

barnsey
14th Jul 2004, 12:41 PM
Well - I've always been a freehand grinder but have found I can get a far better result with jigs. I bought the heligrind because I found it hard to get good results on gouges.

The job on the jig is a lot easier and repeatable. You do have to learn how to use it however so I believe that is similar to learning how to do it freehand without grinding mm's of steel at a time. The adjustable flat tool rest is much the same as a timber one I made in function and is what I use most of the time - only using the full jig when I need a major regrind.

Jamie

Sprog
14th Jul 2004, 08:40 PM
Home Made Vari-Grind Jig (http://www.jeanmichel.org/woodturnjigs.htm)

Just send an email and request his free plans for the Home Made Vari-Grind Jig.

Ozartisan
14th Jul 2004, 09:47 PM
I have only been turning since January this year. I attended an Adult Education course 1st term - best thing I could have done. Haven't joined the local Turning club yet - but will.
I quickly found the difference between sharp, properly ground tools and poor alternatives.
I was shown how to use the UniJig at my course... had trouble finding one from resellers - so wend directly to the source.
George happily supplied a nice new jig, and lots of advice to go with it.
All details are available at
http://www.unijigproducts.com.au/
Have a chat to George, and happy turning with whatever you use
Peter
Happyinsydney

hotrod100
14th Jul 2004, 11:22 PM
Hi Sprog
" Excellent web site, love the duel grinder, and the old storage desk
with the vacume pump behind the bottom drawer doesnt look to shabby either. The grinding jig's look interesting so I requested a set of plans, might just do the job eh". :D
Rod

colbra
14th Jul 2004, 11:33 PM
Hi Peter
I spoke to George on Tuesday I intend to buy one within the next week are you happy with your results can you let me know regards Col

Cliff Rogers
15th Jul 2004, 12:05 AM
G'day.

My 2 bob is for a beginner is to find out what profile suits your turning best
before you go forking for a grinding Jig.

I have several now.
I have a Uni Jig, a HiTurn, something I don't even remember the name of &
a Tormek.

I use the Hiturn for my skew & scrapers but now that I know better,
I could use a normal rest freehand.

I use the gouge attachment off the Tormek on a homemade mount
on the front of an 8" white (wide) wheel on a normal grinder for my gouges.
I like the Tormek Jig profile the best but it's way to bludy slow on the
Tormek wet wheel.

The Tormek is very similar to the UniJig in principle & I can get a
similar profile on it.

Go to your club & try out a few different profiles & when you find something
you really like, ask the owner how it's done.

gatiep
15th Jul 2004, 02:12 AM
Good advice Cliff! Find 100 Woodturners and you'll find 100 different profiles, maybe close but definately different.

Bapa
15th Jul 2004, 07:10 AM
Colbra
Jean Michel has to have one of the BEST, most creative, sharpening systems going, you can tell he enjoys making his tools. I can't leave it at that !!!!!! Here are a couple of additional sites for you to check out. YOU may want to combine some of these ideas as I did.

King Heipels sharpening system, very simple and it works.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00115.asp

Wood turnings by Darrell Feltmate sharpening system, his tool holders work. You will want to spend some time on this site. It is loaded with IDEAS
http://www.aroundthewoods.com/sharp.shtml

David Ellsworth instructions
http://www.aroundthewoods.com/sharp.shtml

Now - how about some Examples of some usable grinds
http://www.woodcentral.com/newforum/grinds.shtml

You will now be mooooorrrrre confused than ever. You will not believe the difference a consistant grind will make in your abilities and the tool you will not waste.

Have fun

Bapa

Alastair
15th Jul 2004, 11:54 AM
To flesh out a few thingd:

Sprog,

The jig looks great, and is typical of the "offset angle" (for want of a better term) jigs, of which the Unijig and Glaser are examples. My home effort is also along these lines.

For Gatiep and Cliff

The jig only ensures that the angles at tip and side are constant. Within these limits, the actual shape of the profile remains in the control of the turner, and there is some skill required in getting this correct, and maintaining it.

BTW with a handle like Gatiep, should I be saying "Vrystaat"?

Alastair

Ozartisan
15th Jul 2004, 05:53 PM
Hi Col
yep... very happy as a newbie with my UniJig.
be prepared to spend a little time if you are going to pick up your jig from George personally - he is a good talker!
Listen to what he has to say.. lots of experience there.
Regards
Peter

colbra
15th Jul 2004, 08:46 PM
Thanks Peter
I go pretty good myself if i was a better speller I would be going on forever on this site, if I have a bit of a story to tell I use M/S word, spell check it and copy it across.
Regards Col :)

gatiep
15th Jul 2004, 10:33 PM
BTW with a handle like Gatiep, should I be saying "Vrystaat"?

Alastair
Yep, from Natal, 100 km south of Durban.

Alastair
19th Jul 2004, 01:52 PM
Gatiep

Came from Durban 4 years ago. I have a brother in Margate.

Nice to meet you

Alastair

colbra
23rd Jul 2004, 11:06 PM
Hi Peter
I have just returned from Sydney and talking to George,what a top bloke I spent 3hrs with him, I brought the jig plus a couple of chisels which he sharpened for as he demonstrated the jig.
Regards Col :)

as_is
5th Sep 2004, 10:42 PM
Hi every one
Being new to woodturning and having no experience with sharpening associated tools especially gouges I thought I would invest in a grinding jig until my skill level develops to free hand.
I have taken advice offered from my last thread and bought a cheaper set of HSS tools from Carb- Tec that I can learn on and sharpen properly as advised.
The jigs that I have heard about are UNIJIG, HELLIGRIND and a few others that I canít recall can anyone recommend any of these jigs, I have seen a review on the unijig on this forum as always any input or advice would be appreciated
Regards Colbra :)
I have a UNIJIG and love the repeatability of the result when properly set. A step gage next to the grinder determines the length of teh tool while the angle on the holder is also quickly reset. I bought it direct from Georgi and he can certainly dish out advice with his product. Write the three settings on a piece of masking tape and stick to the gouge brass ferrule so that the settings are always with the tool you are sharpening rather than on a piece of paper that is easily lost.

as_is

Alastair
6th Sep 2004, 02:22 PM
My settings for my homemade clone are pencilled on the wall above the grinder.

Alastair

Mc
21st Sep 2004, 02:45 AM
Why don't ye learn how te sharpen the tools wiout a jig. Most half decent turners can sharpen a tool and be back turning fer 5 minuts bfore ye can ever set up the tool in the jig and then ye still have te sharpen the wee begger. Do yersef a favor and go get a lesson or two. You'll ne regret it laddy.

Why am I blitherin on wi this anyway I just realized uts an old one an nebody's probably goin te read ut anyway.

Ockaye tha noo.

conwood
3rd Dec 2004, 02:07 PM
saw your pics. excellent work. I have just bought a torquata jig, but will also make another one thanks to you.

conwood

Rod in Ontario
5th Jan 2005, 05:14 AM
Here is a simple jig that you can copy...its quite simple design and does an excellent job.

http://www.oneway.on.ca/sharpening/grind_jig.htm

Ruffy
5th Jan 2005, 11:43 AM
Rod in Ontario Here is a simple jig that you can copy...its quite simple design and does an excellent job.

A month or so ago when I was in the USA I bought the Wolverine jig that Rod refers too. Ten minutes work to set it up and it works a treat, simple and easy.

It is worth spending a little time to mark the sliding bar with your favourite positions for the various tools.

I bought the basic jig and the vari-grind attachment. It was on special at the time I bought it and got the lot for $145 AUS.


Grinding Jig (http://www.oneway.on.ca/sharpening/grind_jig.htm)
Vari-Grind (http://www.oneway.on.ca/sharpening/vari-grind.htm)

gatiep
5th Jan 2005, 08:51 PM
An upgraded version is available from Carba-tec in Perth ( It is locally made in Perth, not the USA one ) and is just known as "THE Turning Tool Grinding Jig" at $130-00, it includes the V section, a base, a holder, a skew platform and a scraper platform. I use one of them daily and like a number of my mates found it exceptionally good. It comes with some instructions and pictures. I'll try and scan some pics from the instructions and post the pics here.

gatiep
5th Jan 2005, 08:54 PM
The rest of the pictures


I hope this is of use to the woodturners, surely beats importing it.

May your turning tools always have a keen edge!

:)

smidsy
5th Jan 2005, 09:21 PM
That's what I've just made.
$130 is probably a good price since there is about $60 worth of material in it (cheaper of course if you can scrounge what you need) and you have to build the sucker - to do a one off there is probably about 4 hours work if you are competent with steel work, I was rusty so probably spent about 10 hours on it.

One thing I am curious about though is that I would have thought different grinders would have a different measurement between the wheels. On this jig you need the base to be drilled for the grinder to bolt over the top, and the steel welded to the base needs to be directly under the wheels.
How do they allow for this in mass manufactur?
Cheers
Paul

gatiep
5th Jan 2005, 09:47 PM
It's not an issue, as the part marked 'base' in picture 1 just bolts onto the bench or whatever the grinder is bolted to. The outside dimension of the tube is 30 mm , so as long as it can fit inbetween the top of bench and grinder wheel shroud all is well.


:)

smidsy
5th Jan 2005, 10:06 PM
Joe,
You misunderstood me.
Those tubes on the base have to be directly under the wheels of the grinder, I thought that different grinders (even of the same size) would have different dimensions in terms of the measurement from centre to centre on each wheel.
If this is the case it would be an issue in terms of mass manufacturing those jigs.

Any idea who designed those jigs, I know Liddlelow have them but who came up with the design.
Cheers
Paul

Rod in Ontario
6th Jan 2005, 02:04 AM
Not too sure what you mean...so I will assume.

I copied and pasted from the "Oneway" site.

"The Grinding Jig comes with two bases - grinders come with two wheels, so we include two bases. By mounting one under each wheel, grinding operations can be rapidly performed on either side of your grinder without having to re-position bases. Bases are equipped with cam-lock clamping that makes the removal and installation of all attachments possible in 10 seconds or less. The cam forces all attachments rigidly into the base which eliminates all play."

With the two locking bases you don't have to worry about the width of the grinder...

Hope I understood your question....if not - blame it on a "brain fart moment" on my part....

Another damn winter storm coming thru this afternoon...I hate winter