Beall spindle tap

[rsser]

The new lathe has a spindle of 1 1/4 x 8 TPI which is a pox for getting cheap faceplates. So I thought I'd have a go at producing my own small faceplates as well as jam chucks and friction drives.

Beall makes spindle taps in a number of sizes to allow you to cut your own threaded socket.

The process is to bore a hole 1/8" narrower than your spindle diameter in cross grain wood. Then you start thread cutting by turning the tap with a spanner and driving it in with the tailstock ram.

On a piece of blackwood this was easy work and produced a clean thread. I drilled a hole first with a 1" saw tooth bit and then side scraped an extra 1/16" out. This bit took the longest part of the exercise and will send me looking for 1 1/8" augers or saw tooth bits.

To match my spindle the hole had to go 1 5/8" deep with a rabbet cut in the top of the hole to match the spindle shoulder.

Any wood thus mounted should remount with more accuracy than a chuck can provide and allow you to make cylinders to spiral wrap sandpaper around for drum sanding between centres, reusable jam chucks for box lids or wood mandrels.

[TTIT]

You missed the most important bit Ern! - Emma Chisit????

[rsser]

Ah yeah, USD 29 from Craft Supplies.

There's a post or two in another part of the forum about tapping your own threads. Folk have had success just getting the right size bolt and grinding some flutes (and maybe the lead-in taper ... can't recall). But I wanted HSS to last on denser timbers.

[Ozkaban]

That looks pretty cool.

Forgive the stupid question, but would you prepare each item you wanted to mounted directly like this, or are you going to do this to scrap pieces and hot-melt (or other) glue them on to the work piece?

Cheers,
Dave

[rsser]

The second. It's a workpiece holding method Dave.

[rsser]

Another option is to turn a morse taper in your scrap and slip that into the spindle.

Elsewhere I've posted the taper dimensions for no. 2

[Ozkaban]

The second. It's a workpiece holding method Dave.

Cool, thanks Ern. I just checked and they dont make the 1x10tpi for the MC1100. They do 1x8 and 1x12.

One more reason to upgrade the lathe :D

cheers,
Dave

[rsser]

K, yes, looked again myself at Craft supplies site: 1 x 8 and M33 the other sizes there but Beall list some more. Not unfortunately 30 x 3.5.

[rsser]

Vid, part 1 YouTube - Spindle Tap How To Part 1 You Tube

Vid, part 2 YouTube - Spindle Tap How To Part 2 You Tube

It talks about 1/8" less radius, not diameter, for the bored hole. My error in reading the instructions, but it still worked. Tops of the threads just a bit flat.

[tea lady]

:think: Interesting. :cool: There is a whole bunch of second hand taps at "Petes Bargain Centre" in Ringwood. Might have a rifle through. (They also have Sand paper for around 65 cents a sheet. :2tsup: And lots of cabinet hardware and other junk. :D )

[rsser]

Worth a look TL.

I'm no expert but AFAIK metal taps will be rather longer than this unit, so more work to tap and needing a longer bit of scrap. On the other hand if you can pick one up with minimal lead-in taper you might avoid all that.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Good idea Ern. Beall doesn't stock 30Mx3.5? Buggrit!

Guess I'll have to stick with getting mine made by the local tame machinist from nuts brazed to $teel plates and then turned. :C

Pete's BC has everything & anything, TL. eg. cheap 6" PVC dusty ducts? Not a problem! (When is the hard bit to get right.) Been going there for years... :U

[rsser]

Why nuts Andy, and not a bolt?

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Why nuts Andy, and not a bolt?

Ages ago I went down to a rural farm machinery dealership and bought a handful of 1x10tpi nuts to suit my old MC-900. So I have a few spares on hand for making faceplates.

I don't have any 30Mx3.5 nuts for the newer MC-900 though, hence my interest in the tap. :)

Due to the size of some of the things I swing - not stubby sized, but probably deemed borderline on my toys - I don't feel safe with an MT or thread through the headstock.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

:think:

Or did you think I meant using the nuts as a tap? :?

If so, no, I meant welding them on as the threaded section of a faceplate.

[rsser]

Gotcha.

[kdm]

McJing have m30 3.5 taps for sensible dollars, around $20 I think.

[Groggy]

McJing have m30 3.5 taps for sensible dollars, around $20 I think.$19. They were tricky to find, here is a link (http://www.mcjing.com.au/categorybrowser.aspx?categoryid=50) if anyone is interested.

[tea lady]

Good idea Ern. Beall doesn't stock 30Mx3.5? Buggrit!

Guess I'll have to stick with getting mine made by the local tame machinist from nuts brazed to plates and then turned. :C

Pete's BC has everything & anything, TL. eg. cheap 6" PVC dusty ducts? Not a problem! (When is the hard bit to get right.) Been going there for years... :UI'lll give you a ring next time I've run out of sand paper.:cool: (:think: Dusty ducts eh? :D But some things they have don't seem that much cheaper. Not that I'm a price expert. :doh: I wanted a tapered threaded thingy to do on the grinder so put the swan's down mop on and they were $24ish. Is that good?:C )

[Harry72]

Ern, the saw tooth bit I use for mine is 28mm, any bigger you lose the tops of the threads any smaller makes it hard to tap.
I found jarrah works very well, just made a large stropping disc for my carving tools... that I havent used yet:(

[rsser]

Thanks Harry.

Found a 1 1/8 Forstner bit at Carbatec; think that's a smidgen over 28 mm.

...

The McJing 30 mm looks to be carbon steel though the list ain't all that clear.

How would you sharpen it? With a Dremel?

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I'lll give you a ring next time I've run out of sand paper.:cool: (:think: Dusty ducts eh? :D But some things they have don't seem that much cheaper. Not that I'm a price expert. :doh: I wanted a tapered threaded thingy to do on the grinder so put the swan's down mop on and they were $24ish. Is that good?:C )

Taper spindles? I paid $33 ea. for mine thru Mitre-10. (I bought both a LH & a RH one. :;) They were threaded to fit my angle-grinder shaft though.

I think that you can get the smooth bored ones (that use grub-screws to lock onto the shaft) for about $22 each, but I won't swear to that.

[tea lady]

Taper spindles? I paid $33 ea. for mine thru Mitre-10. (I bought both a LH & a RH one. :;) They were threaded to fit my angle-grinder shaft though.

I think that you can get the smooth bored ones (that use grub-screws to lock onto the shaft) for about $22 each, but I won't swear to that.:wrackingbrain: I think they had different thread sizes. That's why I didn't get one. More research needed. (Like LH and RH threads. Learn something new every day. :rolleyes: ) Do most grinders have the same thread size on the ends? :?

[TTIT]

.......... I wanted a tapered threaded thingy to do on the grinder so put the swan's down mop on and they were $24ish. Is that good?:C )I just bought 1/2" left and right hand tapered spindles for $19 each from a mob in WA (Josco brand so they're good quality) . Even after postage they were cheaper than I could find anywhere else in the country :shrug: Only took a couple of days - all good :2tsup:
https://www.alltools.com.au/shop/index.php/294/961_Tapered_Spindles_Suit_Bench_Grinders

[TTIT]

:wrackingbrain: I think they had different thread sizes. That's why I didn't get one. More research needed. (Like LH and RH threads. Learn something new every day. :rolleyes: ) Do most grinders have the same thread size on the ends? :?You'll find most newer grinders are 16mm TL. Older 8" grinders are usually 5/8" and the 6" units like the one I'm using for my buffing rig are usually 1/2".

[rsser]

10/10 for a thread hijack guys!

TL, you can also mount a swansdown mop on the end of a bolt and hold the bolt in your chuck (Jacobs or scroll).

-----------

Re the hole size for a given tap, I've clarified that with Beall and it is 1/8" diam less than the tap OD.

[tea lady]

10/10 for a thread hijack guys!Sorry!:B At least we arestill talking about tools.:cool:

TL, you can also mount a swansdown mop on the end of a bolt and hold the bolt in your chuck (Jacobs or scroll).:no: Tried that and I can't seems to get the chuck ti grip it properly.:doh:

-----------

Re the hole size for a given tap, I've clarified that with Beall and it is 1/8" diam less than the tap OD.:cool:

[Tornatus]

Getting back to the original topic, I sent an email to the Beall website asking about the possibility of obtaining a 30mm x 3.5 tap, pointing out that this was the standard lathe spindle size in Australia, and that I was confident I could organise a bulk order among fellow turners.

I received what I thought was a pretty dismissive response, saying simply "We don't get enough calls for that size to have it made". This is typical of the Yanks - if the market is not within North America, then they just dismiss it as being of no consequence. You'd think that people from the much-vaunted home of free enterprise might have at least enough entrepreneurial initiative to explore wider market opportunities ....

Has anyone tried out the McJing tap mentioned above? I would have thought that it was a metal-working tap, and maybe not suited for wood.:?

[kdm]

With apologies to Ern...

I was in Bunnings yesterday and noticed they had Josco tapered arbours for $19.95 in twin packs - one metric and one imperial in each pack, eg LHS 16mm and 5/8" or 12mm and 1/2". If you don't know what your thread is TL could be what you need!

And, on topic, I have used smaller metal taps on close grained wood without problem so I wouldn't expect problems using a M30 3.5 metal tap.

[Tornatus]

With apologies to Ern...

And, on topic, I have used smaller metal taps on close grained wood without problem so I wouldn't expect problems using a M30 3.5 metal tap.

Thanks, Keith

Looks like the McJing $19 tap is worth a try - the only problem I can foresee is whether or not there is a recess in the tail, to allow the live centre to be engaged and hold the tap centred while you turn it manually (as per Beall's demo) :?

[rsser]

Just checked an old P&N tap and it has no dimple in the end.

May not matter that much if the taper registers solidly.

[pommyphil]

Grabbed a 1" Whit. tap for $5 (with dimple) at the market today,cut a 7/8 hole with a Forstner in a chunk of Grey Gum.Cut the thread as per the video, works a treat, endless possibilities. Thankyou.:2tsup:

[rsser]

Cool :)

[NCPaladin]

After you tap your item (and before you remove it from the lathe) turn it by hand and apply a coating of thin CA glue to the threads and allow it to soak into the wood. When the glue is dry, re-tap it. You should have much harder threads in any type of wood.
Mike

[Harry72]

Good tip, thanks mate.

[Sturdee]

Did anyone get the McJing tap and did it work okay?


Peter.

[Gil Jones]

Hey, Ern,
I don't know what you consider cheap for a faceplate, but these are pretty reasonable >> index (http://www.donpencil.com/)
I have his Scorpion hollowing tool and it is quite well made, as are all of his other products. The faceplates are hard aluminum, and the several I have are, thick, sturdy, and work very well. If you have reverse on your lathe, Don has some with setscrews.
Also, he turns them on a CNC lathe, so i would think M30 x 3.5 would not be troublesome (but who knows).
Shoot Don an email, and see if he ships international. If not, I'll send them to you.
Gil

[hughie]

[



I. The faceplates are hard aluminum, and the several I have are, thick, sturdy, and work very well.


Hard aluminum would be very good, it machines well and is very tough. In many ways its ideal for this type of work

[rsser]

Many thanks Gil.

Ironically, the Nova has a 1 1/4 x 8 spindle, which appears to be fairly common in the US. We can get cheap Jet cast iron faceplates here that are 30x3.5, from a US company. Go figure.

Any case, I did get one of those schmick anodised alloy faceplates from Craft Supplies. Prob Don supplies them?

Added: their max diam is pretty small.

[Gil Jones]

Yes, Ern, 1.250" x 8 tpi is common here in the larger machines (my PM3520B is that size).
I agree that the faceplates that Don sells (2.5" and 3.5" diameter) seem fairly small. So far I have not found any need for a larger size. They are 6061 extruded aluminum (I am not sure if they are type O, T4, T6, T6511, or what) but thay do not seem to flex at all.
Gil

[rsser]

I haven't actually mounted my 3.5" job .... frankly it's too nice to mark! :- Ask GJ. Last time he was over in the shed it was the only thing he noticed.

Since the OP I also got a 6" faceplate from Jim; one with std insert and options for diameters. Very nicely made, tho only 4 screw holes. Made by one of the V's: Vermec or Vicmarc, can't recall. But $$ to match.

I prefer bigger diameters when bodging up something out of MDF.

[Tornatus]

Did anyone get the McJing tap and did it work okay?


Peter.

G'day Peter

Yes, I bought the McJing tap in 30mm x 3.5 at the Canberra TWWWS, and got it for a good price.

Don't know - I haven't had an opportunity to try it yet, partly because I am not sure what size to drill the pilot hole, and haven't stirred myself to find out! :B I will post when I have done so.

[rsser]

About 1/8" smaller than the radius of the spindle (to the thread tops). On my first I did about 1/16" smaller and it still worked OK.

[Gil Jones]

1/8" less than the spindle radius would be a bit tight:rolleyes:
For your spindle that measurment would be .500"

[Ed Reiss]

I can also vouch for Don Pencils aluminum faceplates. I have several and have no problem at all with them, in fact a 3 incher is used for a 14 inch donut chuck.

[rsser]

Gil, yes, quite right. My mistake.

Ed, thanks for that feedback.

[Sturdee]

Don't know - I haven't had an opportunity to try it yet, partly because I am not sure what size to drill the pilot hole, and haven't stirred myself to find out! :B I will post when I have done so.

Looking forward to the results. I need a 1" *10tpi and the onlyt ones I can find are from Mcjing. Trawled at Trash and Treasure yesterday, plenty of taps but none my size. :((


Peter.

[Gil Jones]

Hey, Peter, I do not know what the freight would be on this tap, but here is your 1" x 10 tpi, HSS, plug chamfer, hand tap. Enco is a good company.
Gil
Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=327-2288&PMPXNO=22505110)

[rsser]

Nice one Gil.

Another option Peter for a low use unit, as posted elsewhere, is just to buy a bolt and grind some flutes and a starting taper.

PS That Enco site also lists taps in 30 x 3.5

Fine, coarse, or special threads. Dunno what the typical lathe spindle is.

[Tornatus]

About 1/8" smaller than the radius of the spindle (to the thread tops). On my first I did about 1/16" smaller and it still worked OK.

OK, Ern - I realised you meant the radius of the tap, not the spindle, but isn't 1/8" less than the radius the same as 1/4" less than the diameter? (I should mention that I bloody near failed maths at school ....)

I'm guessing that the nature of the wood used would also be a factor - the tip above about soaking the new threads in CA is worth keeping in mind, especially if you intend to re-use the tapped item frequently.

[rsser]

The diam of the tap and the spindle should be much the same Tornatus.

And yes, your maths looks good to me.

So for a Nova spindle: 1 1/4" - (1/8 + 1/8) = 1". Hmm, why did 0.5" look right yesterday :?

Anycase, to determine the diam of the pilot hole, measure the OD of the tap at the thread bottom.

[Grumpy John]

G'day Peter

Yes, I bought the McJing tap in 30mm x 3.5 at the Canberra TWWWS, and got it for a good price.

Don't know - I haven't had an opportunity to try it yet, partly because I am not sure what size to drill the pilot hole, and haven't stirred myself to find out! :B I will post when I have done so.

Rule of thumb for tapping drill is major Dia. minus pitch. 30 - 3.5 = 26.5.
Hope this helps.

[Gil Jones]

Ern, the .500" looked right 'cause it was right for "1/8" less than the spindle radius".

As in: 1.250/2=radius of .625-.125=.500, but the real answer is a drilled hole of 1.125"
I have a Beall 1.250 x 8 tpi tap, and it does fine in wood with a 1.125 hole.
And, the reinforcing the cut threads with thin CA, and re-tap, also works well.
Gil

And I forgot to mention that (in wood) one should drill and tap in the side or long grain.
Tapping in end grain does not work well.

[rsser]

:doh:

Just as well I gave up maths in Year 10 :-

And thanks GJ.

Gil, the only one I've done is as pictured at the thread start. It's end grain but in the one application so far, as a jam chuck, the stresses were light.

[colhu]

Hi guys

I haven't tried what you are talking about, but one of our woodturning group members uses aluminium glue chucks almost exclusively - about 100 to 120 mm dia by 20 to 25 mm thick, threaded to suit his headstock. He turns almost everything, including some seriously deep hollowings, with his workpiece hot-glued onto one of these.

If you are going to go to the trouble of buying a tap, think about making an aluminium block as well as some wooden ones. You could then either hot-glue directly to it, or hot-glue a piece of scrap to it to make jam chucks etc. The aluminium block will always be true because you wouldn't get any crushing of the thread when you tightened it on the spindle.

just some thoughts

cheers, Colin

[Sturdee]

So for a Nova spindle: 1 1/4" - (1/8 + 1/8) = 1". Hmm, why did 0.5" look right yesterday :?


Ern,

Just checked Beale's video again and he says that you drill a hole 1/8 " less than the tap, so he used a 7/8 drill size to tap a 1" tap.

So your original post was correct.

I think I will try to make my own first, I'll get a bolt tomorrow to play with it over the holidays.

Peter.

[Tornatus]

Thanks, fellas, for all the info on pilot holes - I think I understand ....

Guess I'll just have to find some crap scrap and suck it and see ....

Merry hippopotamus and a happy nude jeer! :U

[Sturdee]

I think I will try to make my own first, I'll get a bolt tomorrow to play with it over the holidays.

Peter.


And that was easier said then done.:(

Called in to my favourite specialist bolt place (Cost Less bolts- Ringwood) and they didn't have any of the 1" 10TPI bolts and nuts. So I let my fingers do the walking and rang 7 other bolt places from the Yellow pages and none had them either. :~

So the Mcjing tap looks the only cost effective choice.

Whilst handy for making chucks etc I specifically want it to make a handwheel to screw on the spindle so maybe I'll try to make the handwheel with the thread cutting tool I got. :D


Peter.

[rsser]

Why not just cut a couple of flutes in the spindle and use that for the tap? ;-}

BTW, I've got a 30x3.5 bolt if anyone's interested. Cheap.

[Pat]

I was asked how the McJing 1"x10tpi went into wood. The wood is scrap Victorian Ash/Messmate/Eucy about 300x50x25. The pilot hole is 22mm and then the tap is gently added, being very careful to keep the tap vertical:doh:

The threads look well formed and threaded onto the spindle easily with no slop. I did not run the lathe as one of my dogs was attempting to sleep under it:roll:

I also have the M30x3.5 version and will try it later.