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John Saxton
18th Sep 2009, 08:25 PM
Question: wondering if any people use slipstones, or prefer to hone the inside of their gouges to arrive at a polished edge?

My training in woodturning quite some years back now was with an old turner(RIP) who advocated polishing the insides of the gouges with slipstones which he kept in soaked in a tin of Kero.

Look forward to hearing folks views.

cheers:)

Pat
18th Sep 2009, 08:44 PM
I only hone the Skew. The rest get used straight from the grinder.

I think this is one of the " A billion different ways" questions:)

(I do turn a burr on the scrapers tho . . . )

RETIRED
18th Sep 2009, 09:29 PM
I have always polished the flutes of gouges with a slipstone, but now I use the leather hones on the Tormek.

I very rarely hone the edge after grinding even with a Tormek.

Remember that a cutting edge is the intersection of 2 planes meeting. If one is rough it ain't sharp.

jefferson
18th Sep 2009, 09:30 PM
Johnno,

The three best turners I know (, Ken W. and Vic Wood) all use the Tormek system. And they hone all the time with the leather honing wheels on the machine. Not all the time - but certainly when nearing that "last" cut when super-sharp is a must.

I don't know about , but neither Ken or Vic use a burr when using a scraper either. ( probably reckons his cuts are so sweet that he doesn't need to scrape:D:D:D)

Vic in particular has a very aggressive 45 degree or less bevel on his scrapers that is almost dangerous. It requires a very delicate touch.....

For myself, novice that I am, I hone too much and waste a lot of paste on the Tormek. And I hone all the time, every time I sharpen. No slip stones here, though I do need one. No burr on my tools either.

All I know is that if you have good steel that is sharp, you will turn better. Or so Ken W. tells me. Check out his latest article in the Australian Woodworker. It's a good read.

Over to the experts.....

China
18th Sep 2009, 10:22 PM
Yep I use slipstones on the inside of gouges

badgaz
18th Sep 2009, 10:25 PM
No expert here John but I can tell you after my first few tentative cuts with my new P&N supa gouge (great steel, and an excellent tool IMO), the inside surface, which is quite rough, tended to get clogged very easily. My small Hamlet 8 mm bowl gouge is silky smooth by comparison and it tends to clear better when hogging out dry hardwoods. I'm sure clogged flutes would be even more of a problem in turning green timbers, but as yet I haven't tried it.

I only use an oil stone to hone the skew, but I am considering getting a slip stone to polish the inside of the P&N gouge to prevent clogging, not to improve the cutting edge.

Hope this helps.

Gazza

RETIRED
18th Sep 2009, 11:25 PM
No expert here John but I can tell you after my first few tentative cuts with my new P&N supa gouge (great steel, and an excellent tool IMO), the inside surface, which is quite rough, tended to get clogged very easily. My small Hamlet 8 mm bowl gouge is silky smooth by comparison and it tends to clear better when hogging out dry hardwoods. I'm sure clogged flutes would be even more of a problem in turning green timbers, but as yet I haven't tried it.

I only use an oil stone to hone the skew, but I am considering getting a slip stone to polish the inside of the P&N gouge to prevent clogging, not to improve the cutting edge.

Hope this helps.

GazzaBut you will.:D

badgaz
18th Sep 2009, 11:36 PM
But you will.


Oops, that should read: "not just to improve the cutting edge".

hijack over:D

Gazza

NeilS
19th Sep 2009, 01:43 PM
...my new P&N supa gouge (great steel, and an excellent tool IMO), the inside surface, which is quite rough

Yes, the flutes on the P&Ns are are too rough to use as they come. They are the only flutes that I have bothered to hone, a bit, but not so much that I can see my reflection in them...:o... like those of the Tormek brigade.

I've been less fussy with the flute on my P&N roughing gouge, not that it wouldn't benefit from a better finish than it currently has. This is not so much about the finish it leaves, which is not such an issue with roughing down, but the durability of the cutting edge which does improve when the milling lines have been completely honed away, and as says, it will then be 'sharp'-er, if and when I get around to it...:U

jefferson
19th Sep 2009, 03:00 PM
Don't be too hard on me, Neil.

I bought my Tormek maybe 7-8 years ago, just for sharpening my planer blades and woodworking chisels.

NOT FOR WOOD TURNING! :p

And after I started turning, the gouges put so many hollows in the stone that I gave up. The old truing system was hopeless!

But the new truing tool works a treat and I now sharpen all the time on the Tormek. Still haven't quite got the hang of it yet. And if I get right out of whack, I use the Tormek gig on the spark grinder to correct on the 120 wheel, which works fine too.

Yes, the P & N's are a worry with all that black stuff. I try to sand then buff the coating out. Then onto the Tormek.

Then I can shave any excess body hair (not on the head though, not much left!).

At least then I know that the tools are sharp and if the tool aint 'a cutting, I'm doing something wrong. Open the flute, Little Grasshopper, and the chisel will cut instead of burnishing the wood hot on the bevel rub.

(Unlike down at Calm's place last month - he just kept handing me blunt chisels. ) :D

Off playing again with the esc. chuck. I'm peel-scraping with a wide parting tool (super-sharp) and the finish is OK. I was supposed to be mowing all arvo, but ran the ride-on over a wire tree guard...... :B

Calm
19th Sep 2009, 03:55 PM
i have tried to draw the problem. (not very well i admit)

116834

If the inside of the gouge is rough (corrugated) then how can you get a sharp edge. It is going to be a sawtooth finish so honing, polishing, whatever it takes to remove the unevenness of the inside is required to get a "sharp" finish.

If you flattened the line out imagine what sort of an edge you would have if you sharpened one side and left the other corrugated.

All tools need to be smooth both sides to get them sharp.

Hope that explains it.

BTW i have a slipsotne purchased for this purpose but have only done the 3/8 HT gouge. I figure the 1/2 inch HT i only use to rough out so not as vital as the tool used for finishing cuts.

I would go as far as to say that honing/polishing will give you a sharper tool - which means a cleaner cut - which results in less sanding - and we all like sanding dont we:no::no:

Cheers

Texian
20th Sep 2009, 12:23 PM
David, Not sure I can agree exactly. You will have a sharp edge all around. It will just be a "corrugated" sharp edge. Definitely agree that less corrugated is better, and will give a smoother (less corrugated) cut.

John Saxton
20th Sep 2009, 07:13 PM
Thanks to all the above for their responses.I have a Tormek which I have predominately been using for plane blades(and the occassional knife & scissors for SWMBO to justify the expense:D)and have yet to run gouges over the honing wheel.

Must admit I have still been using the slipstones on the inside of the gouges in a vain attempt to keep a polished surface.It's been a habit I 've yet to move from.

I don't use the Tormek for grinding the bevel in fact still use a white wheel grinder set up for running the edges off.

It is interesting to hear a cross section of views on this topic as w/turning has been a strong force within the community for some time now but some folks perspective changes as they advance in technique and experience.

I wonder if I'll wear the slipstones out before the Tormek:oo:

Cheers:)

Texian
21st Sep 2009, 12:15 PM
G'day John, I like your saying about photographic memory. Is it a famous quote or did you just make it up? Mine used to have film, but has run out.

NeilS
21st Sep 2009, 09:47 PM
Don't be too hard on me, Neil.

I bought my Tormek maybe 7-8 years ago, just for sharpening my planer blades and woodworking chisels.



Just envious....:U

jefferson
21st Sep 2009, 09:55 PM
Neil, all of us (I think/believe) like your posts. :2tsup: Always educational / inspirational.

As for you, Johnno.....

If you already have a Tormek and the right jigs, you have nothing in your way. :wink:

Just make sure you have the new truing jig to keep your stone flat.

IMHO, you MUST put your turning chisels on the Tormek. I don't turn well, but sharp chisels make all the difference.

I resisted for so long and now regret most of it.

rodent
30th Sep 2009, 02:20 PM
Some wet & dry paper folded around a piece of thin timber ( edge rounded over ) some water a cup of tea or coffee sit down and start polishing ie if it's rough start with 120 or 220 . I finish mine with some soft wax and give it a hand buff . :2tsup:

Frank&Earnest
30th Sep 2009, 02:44 PM
The professional turner who ran the TAFE course I attended when I started turning a couple of years ago showed us how to use the slipstones, then proceeded to tell us that life is too short to spend it honing for minuscule improvement (assuming that one knows how to grind properly). FWIW.

Ozkaban
30th Sep 2009, 04:55 PM
Some wet & dry paper folded around a piece of thin timber ( edge rounded over ) some water a cup of tea or coffee sit down and start polishing ie if it's rough start with 120 or 220 . I finish mine with some soft wax and give it a hand buff . :2tsup:

that's a good idea. I have a slip stone for my gouges, but I find some of the flutes are too narrow for the stone to reach the bottom. Maybe this method would be useful here.

Cheers,
Dave

RETIRED
30th Sep 2009, 06:30 PM
The professional turner who ran the TAFE course I attended when I started turning a couple of years ago showed us how to use the slipstones, then proceeded to tell us that life is too short to spend it honing for minuscule improvement (assuming that one knows how to grind properly). FWIW.I agree, but we are talking the flutes of gouges here. I also polish the backs (tops) of scrapers and the sides of my parting tools.

Frank&Earnest
30th Sep 2009, 08:20 PM
I agree, but we are talking the flutes of gouges here. I also polish the backs (tops) of scrapers and the sides of my parting tools.

My bad, I had not understood that the topic was about tuning the tools before use, as I had no knowledge of this issue. Another lesson learnt, thanks.:)

Any problem doing it with cloth wheels and abrasive paste, like I do with carving gouges?

KenW
30th Sep 2009, 10:45 PM
Yes, the flutes on the P&Ns are are too rough to use as they come.
All my P&N gouges are polished with a Scotchbrite wheel, before sharpening on the Tormek. Polishing the flute makes the tool cut better, and will be much cooler to handle.
Nothing wrong with using a slipstone, as long as the flute is polished.

KenW
30th Sep 2009, 10:48 PM
I agree, but we are talking the flutes of gouges here. I also polish the backs (tops) of scrapers and the sides of my parting tools.
What said.

NeilS
1st Oct 2009, 10:44 AM
Any problem doing it with cloth wheels and abrasive paste, like I do with carving gouges?



Haven't used the cloth wheels, Frank, so can't comment on that.

A series of disks in MDF (or similar) with the rims turned to match the various flute profiles works well for me. I also use 'valleys' in the rims for the bevels of some of my carving gouges. Dark green (stainless steel grade) abrasive compound seems to work the best.

Found the MDF disks were firmer (less inclined to round over a micro bevel) and more efficient than the felt wheels that I still use for honing scrapers.

....

John Saxton
5th Oct 2009, 10:37 PM
G'day John, I like your saying about photographic memory. Is it a famous quote or did you just make it up? Mine used to have film, but has run out.

Hi, My film has run out also:oo: I cannot remember where I got it from but apologies to the originator for floggin' his great saying.:2tsup:

It appealed therefore it is.:wink:

Cheers:)

John Saxton
5th Oct 2009, 10:41 PM
I agree, but we are talking the flutes of gouges here. I also polish the backs (tops) of scrapers and the sides of my parting tools.

It makes sense as has said.

If you apply this thinking across most sharpening practices then irrespective of the tool the edge should be keen on attack.

THANKS TO ALL

Cheers:)

Calm
5th Oct 2009, 11:55 PM
MOD MOD where are they when you need them


20][/COLOR]It makes sense as has said.

If you apply this thinking across most sharpening practices then irrespective of the tool the edge should be keen on attack.

THANKS TO ALL

Cheers:)

Delete the name in the above quote will you, John has made a huge/great/enormous/humungous mistake here -

we have to try and get in the shed with him on Sat - now his head will be twice normal size not to mention his EGO that will be unbearable

John he is one bloke you never tell him he's right it goes straight to the head and he doesnt mind telling you how good he is.:D:D:D:D:D:p:p:p:p

Cheers

John Saxton
8th Oct 2009, 11:15 AM
MOD MOD where are they when you need them


we have to try and get in the shed with him on Sat -




Cheers

Yes and as many as we can squeeze in to take the load off of Groggy's shoulders....mans got enought to do, so a few more volunteers will always be a bonus.

Cheers:)