I finally chose a cordless drill

[seb001]

I have been lurking on the forum for a little while, as part of a drawn out process to purchase a new cordless drill for DIY stuff around the home. I am not a particularly handy handyman but I wanted to buy something that I could be confident would last a few years and I didn't want to buy Ozito or cheap Ryobi.

My initial budget was $200-$300, which I then stretched to $300-$400, which then ...

After several weeks this was my shortlist:

In the Li-Ion camp:

Hitachi DS18DFL. (45Nm, 1.6kg)... $274 kit with 2x 1.5Ah batteries, ...... v8tools, sydneytools ($295), ..... Made in japan?
Makita BDF452 .. .(50Nm, 1.6kg).. $299 kit with 2x 1.5Ah batteries, ....... totaltools, sydneytools .............Made in China
Metabo BS18Li ...(48Nm, 1.4kg)....$329 2x1.3Ah .................................. on special $329 unitedtools, $378 at vektools .... Made in PRC
Bosch GSR18V-LI (56Nm, 1.6kg).. $340 2x 1.3Ah batteries ................... ebay, justtools ($369) ...............Made in Malaysia
Milwaukee C18DD (38Nm, 1.8kg).. $398 kit with 2x 1.5Ah batteries ......... vektools
Makita BHP452 .. .(50Nm, 1.9kg).. $418 kit with 2x 3.0Ah batteries ......... vektools
Makita BDF452 ... (50Nm, 1.6kg).. $459 kit, 2x 1.5Ah batts, impact driver 1.3kg 145Nm ... totaltools, $499 sydneytools, $469 unitedtools
Bosch GSR18V-LI (56Nm, 1.6kg)... $499 Kit, 3x batteries, impact driver 1.7kg 160Nm ...... fktools price on special ($574-599 elsewhere)

In the non-Li-I camp:

Metabo BSZ18 ..............(62Nm, 2.2kg).......... $209 3yrs warranty. 2x 2.0Ah Ni-Cd ... vektools, justtools ($220) ..Made in Germany? felt a bit too heavy
Bosch GSR 14.4VE2 .......(72Nm, 2.5kg)........ $269 2x 2.6Ah NiMH ........................ Bunnings special EOL. .....Made in Switzerland
Panasonic EY6432 GQKW (44Nm, 2.0kg)........ $395 2x 3.5Ah NIMH 15.6V ............. norwest tools ...................Made in Japan?

In the end I decided I would stretch the budget to get a kit with the impact driver. I didn't know much about impact drivers but they are the bees knees for driving screws.

There is a video presentation here that explains how they work, including a cut-out casing showing the internal mechanism:

EDIT: (linked to the wrong page - with this link the video should start after a few seconds) http://www.finehomebuilding.com/videos/index.aspx?id=97546&c=3

The first day I brought the drills home my FIL was attempting to attach two thin bits of ply with some weedy timber screws and kept rounding the heads. I tried the impact driver and it worked like a charm - even pushing in one of the screws that he'd rounded the head on!

Of course, the other trick I have found to make it easier to put screws in is to rub the thread over a cake of soap - it adds just enough lubrication to help ease the thread into the timber.

My FIL was so impressed he was rather speechless for a bit. I did this without pre-drilling holes either - he was rounding the heads even WITH pre-drilled holes.

I suppose I got ahead of myself there.

Note that there is only one Milwaukee in the shortlist. In my price range the 5 years warranty was an appealing bonus but the comparatively weaker drills put me off (38Nm). No DeWalt either. And the AEG were heavier than I wanted.

In the end I visited a few shops and decided to go sub-2kg. This meant Lithium-Ion.

The Makita BHP452 hammer is about 0.1kg heavier than the BDF542 non-hammer. Also note that 3Ah batteries are about 0.2kg heavier than 1.5Ah units. Hence the BHP452 is listed as 1.9kg with battery compared to 1.6kg for the BHP452. I didn't think I would generally want a cordless hammer drill (apparently the hammer action is not as forceful as the ones on corded drills, naturally). Both drills have the same 300W motor. No other manufacturer seems to quote the motor power, just torque figures.

Note that "stall torque" is not often quoted is probably the true measure of motor torque - however, for comparison purposes the soft-joint/hard-joint torque figures may be useful as a first look. When CHOICE tested drills it tested the stall torque. Results from that article won't be quoted here as the actual model no. is not quoted for each case in the CHOICE article and it is a bit laborious to compare photos, weights etc to get the actual model. Suffice to say CHOICE found that Bosch Blue, Makita, AEG DeWalt performed well but didn't test Hilti, Panasonic, Milwaukee, Metabo. CHOICE found the Hitachi I listed above a bit down on torque. The Ryobi scored well overall because of its good battery score but was also down on torque compared to the top scorers.

In the end I decided to splash out and get a kit with the impact driver - in the past I have been annoyed at having only a single drill and having to switch tools (pre-drill, then screw, then repeat, at least for the first few screws in a project until the pieces are held together and then pre-drill the lot in one go). I was also intrigued by the idea that the impact drill provides rotational impacts to increase the instantaneous torque applied to a screw head and minimise head-rounding (apparently, it can happen that the screw head gets twisted off before the screw head gets rounded...)

So then it came down to the Makita kit or the Bosch blue kit. Aparently for Queenslanders tradeltoolsdirect stores had a great in-store special on the Bosch kit earlier in the year but I live Sydney way and they may not have any left. (I found the PDF of the May and August catalogues still in Google).

I decided to plump for the Makita. Visiting a few worksites recently in the course of my job (I am an Acoustic Consultant) I noticed Makitas and Panasonics in the main, with a few Bosch Blue - this helped me form the shortlist but not the final decision.

The main reason I opted for the Makita was the fact I could pick it up local to me (not have to order online or make a trip over towards the city) and because the Makita impact driver was only 1.3kg compared to the Bosch 1.7kg (145Nm only a bit down on the 160Nm of the heavier unit).

Two things I noticed AFTER I bought it - it comes with a belt hook but NOT with a bit holder! I went to totaltools (not where I initially bought it) who ordered me one for the princely sum of $3. Seriously, for $3 as the aftermarket price Makita left it OUT?!

The other thing is that Makita advertises the batteries as "1.5Ah" but the User Manual states they are only 1.3Ah according to EU test Standards. A bit misleading. (The 3Ah IS 3Ah according to EU Standards though).

Anyway, Lithium-Ion charge pretty quickly, keep their charge on the shelf pretty well, and if I ever do a big job in the future then I can always order a spare 3Ah battery off ebay for $120.

Also note that the Makita kit case is ONLY for one drill at a time... Doh. Didn't check the Bosch case.

So far quite happy with both drills. They have an LED light to help illuminate the workspace. The light stays on 15 seconds after the drill stops. The chuck is quite good to use - much better than my old Ryobi which needed two hands. The Manual shows that the motor carbon brushes can be replaced when they wear down.

Also note that when comparing drills the conversion between American inch-pounds and metric Nm is very close to 9 (i.e. 450in-lbs = 50Nm).

Some people advocate getting a $50 Ozito or similar cheap drill and just replacing it every year. I don't like that approach. I am disappointed in the 1 year warranty (6 months trade warranty) but I trust that Makita's QA procedures in the Chinese factory work well and that the drill will last 5-10 years.

edit: fixed the link to the video. I thought it was a great video, actually shows the insides of an impact driver with th ecasing cut away.

[beer is good]

Thanks for a very exhaustive and detailed analysis. Did you consider Festool drills?

[seb001]

Festool come with a 3yr warranty and have the most excellent reputation but even when an EOL model was on sale it was still out of my price range (the cordless drills typically go for $700, $800, $900. I did find an EOL on special for $488 but it was NiCd and weighed 2.3kg, above my target).

[Sturdee]

So far quite happy with both drills.

How much did they cost you and do you think that you will get enough use to justify the cost for DIY stuff around the home ?


Peter.

[seb001]

Peter,

buried in my shortlist is the pricing:


Makita BDF452 ... (50Nm, 1.6kg).. $459 kit, 2x 1.5Ah batts, impact driver 1.3kg 145Nm ... totaltools, $499 sydneytools, $469 unitedtoolsI paid $469 as that store was more convenient for me than the $459 store. I didn't try to haggle but they did throw in a set of Makita bits.


do you think that you will get enough use to justify the costexcellent question. I suppose the answer is quite subjective. Ignoring the fancy account concepts, if they last 8 years then that is about $60/yr for the both of them. Not exactly cheap but then I am paying for the name and hoping to get the Makita quality as well.

I am hoping they will last about 8 yrs for home use (and expect them to last 5-12, with a battery replacement somewhere in there).

[DrillGuy]

Seb001,

I think you made a good choice with the Makita BDF452. We rated it higher than the Makita BDF452HW, but actually chose the BDF452HW as a better value. They are basically the same drill, but the BDF452HW has 1.5 Ah Li-ion batteries, while the BDF452 has 3.0 Ah. The longer run-time is great, but you pay about 50% more for the drill. And the 1.5 Li-ions can be recharged in only 15 minutes.

If run-time is really important in the jobs you do, then the higher cost BDF452HW is worth it. Good luck with your new drill.

Charlie at Best Cordless Drill (http://www.cordless-drill-reviews.com)

[seb001]

Charlie,

I haven't seen the HW model in the silver colour in Australian shops. Here the 452 is sold in the blue livery with 1.5Ah batteries only. The 3.0Ah batteries are available but ONLY with the BHP model drill (BHP452 is the hammer drill, 0.1kg heavier).

Also, the manufacturers here seem to offer only 12month warranties even when the same model overseas has 3yr warranty.

[waikune]

I note in your extensive table the Metabo BS18Li ...(48Nm, 1.4kg)....$329 2x1.3Ah on special $329 unitedtools, $378 at vektools .... Made in PRC

There a 3 models the L, LT made in PRC and the LTX made in Germany

I purchased the LTX (with the pulse driver system) and the 18V Impact driver after many days of study (Hell its like deciding what mobile phone to buy), however I can now say that I've used them both for some weeks now and I'm very happy with my purchase. BTW Metabo offer 3 years waranty if you register within 4 weeks of purchase.:2tsup:

[Charleville]

Hell its like deciding what mobile phone to buy



Ain't that the truth! My Bosch 14.4v drill that I have had for many, many........... many years is on its last legs (albeit it never quite gives up - even though the batteries last only a few minutes now.)

I need a new one but recently spent all of $35 on a 12v cheapie simply because I needed something quickly and the choice of quality drills is exactly as you said, ie just like deciding which mobile phone to buy. The cheapie is good for mixing paint with a paint stirrer thingy and for drilling and screwing in light materials but when I need to shift a tough screw, out comes the old Bosch for a few minutes. (which is all it can do but it does do the job. Reminds me of endless jokes about old bulls and young bulls. :D )


Many thanks to seb001 for this spendid evaluation. 'Tis very helpful. :)

[seb001]

Charleville, if the Bosch is still ok (chuck doesn't wobble, motor ok, etc) then have you thought about getting the battery re-packed? I have had a couple done for my F-I-L and they work quite well. From memory it is $49 for cheapie cells, $76 for decent cells and over $100 for Pro battery cells. The co. is akkupak and have given me good service. Found the site again: Akkupak | Battery Repacking (http://www.akkupak.com.au/page/battery_repacking.html)

However, if you don't have a good battery charger than I would be leery of going down that path as the battery will fail again the same way after time. I use a hobby charger to charge up my FIL's drills now.

Waikune, the LTX is the $600+ model. 2.0kg, 2.6Ah, 96Nm. Fabulous specs (and a price to match). Looks like a great drill and fairly priced.

[Charleville]

Thanks seb001. That is very useful info.

Many thanks.



.

[Charleville]

Charleville, if the Bosch is still ok (chuck doesn't wobble, motor ok, etc) then have you thought about getting the battery re-packed?



Problem solved!!! :)


I just won this bunch of stuff in a radio station online competition...

http://img.skitch.com/20091112-r9ptpcifasjkhxjuf59c86xxca.preview.jpg (http://skitch.com/charleville2/n881y/skitched-413)
Click for full size (http://skitch.com/charleville2/n881y/skitched-413) - Uploaded with plasq (http://plasq.com)'s Skitch (http://skitch.com)



That Metabo cordless drill is a bobby dazzler compared with what I have been using lately!

Awesome! :)



.

[totoblue]

I have a Makita BHP453 which I bought in Mar 09 for about $450. Prices seem to have dropped quite a bit. At the time, I didn't see the kit with non-hammer drill and impact driver for a similar price or I would have been tempted to get that.

The one I have is a Bunnings-only model in Australia I think although it is on the Makita NZ site. Makita - Product Details - BHP453SHE Cordless 18V 2-Speed VSR Hammer Driver Drill (http://www.makita.co.nz/products/detail.lsd?item=BHP453SHE)

I looked at the more expensive brands but in the same price range I could only get a NiCd version. I did consider cheaper ones but thought that a drill is such a fundamental tool, it is worth getting a good one.

Previous drill was a Bosch 18V cordless which is only a 10mm chuck, so I wanted a 13mm chuck, Li-ion and decent quality. I had been given a cheap drill which came from Super Cheap Auto I think - drill ok but batteries died after about a year (cheap stuff seems to have particularly bad batteries).

Did the search of the tool shops online and at the time, it really came down to Makita. The Bosch one-handed chuck/gear mechanism is almost busted (the chuck can lock when you are removing a drill bit). At the time I bought the Bosch, the one-handed chuck was pretty unique (at least in the price range - IIRC it was $220 about 15? years ago). Apart from the chuck, the Bosch is still going strong (including battery).

I have had a few Bosch power tools (the green ones) and I find that features tend to break on them - for example they have sticky-outy bits which snap off. I have a few Makita power tools and they don't necessarily have all the features of the Bosch ones but they have been bulletproof.

I am pleased with the Makita. It is light, has 2 batteries, fast charger, hammer drill works well (I have only drilled 6mm holes into concrete but for that purpose it works as well as my 650W Bosch corded drill). Hand grip has a bit of a step molded into it which you notice when doing hammer drilling (for hammer drilling, I need to wear a glove for my delicate hands).

The clutch/gear mechanism looks to me like it will be more robust than the Bosch one was. It has two selectors: one to choose from screwdriving, drilling or hammer drilling, and another to choose torque setting. My old Bosch has one selector to choose between drilling or the torque setting, which to my mind makes it more complicated and prone to breakage.

The Li-ion batteries last for ages even though they are only 1.5 Ah (I am a DIYer so 1.5 Ah is big enough for me). I figured that the smaller batteries make it lighter and that with 2 Li-ion batteries and a fast smart charger, I am unlikely to find the 2nd battery is flat or that after switching to the 2nd battery, I use it all up before the 1st has recharged.

You can buy "skins" from Makita (tools without batteries or charger) which might save a bit depending on where you get it. Also I seem to remember that the charger is capable of charging a whole range of Makita batteries including NiCd and Li-ion and different voltages.

As an aside, I use one of those drill bit holder/extender things which holds hex bits. I use hex drill bits wherever possible and you can just simply switch between drill bits and driver bits.

Would like an impact driver though.

[_AL_]

I don't know anything about any of the drills you've listed but I do know that Makita makes a good drill.
I was in the smash repair trade for a long time. We used to drill 1/8 holes in the panels & screw them together to check for alignment before welding (I assume they still do. Been out for 7 odd years now).

In 1994 I bought a Makita 7.2V cordless drill. I think it was about $200 from memory and came with 2 Nicad batteries of about 1200mah and a 1.5 hour "fast" charger. That drill got used every day without fail for the following 8 years to drill holes & then drive self tappers through anywhere from 2-5 layers of steel. On a heavy day I'd run both batteries flat from constant use.
It's now 2010 & that drill still runs like it did when brand new. It looks like it's been dragged behind a car for 100km but it still works great. The only wear is the poor old Nicad batteries that don't hold their charge very well but I can get replacement ones for around $60 if I want.
No other tool in my kit has survived like the Makita drill, A testament to it's quality.
If only I could get Lithium batteries to fit that drill It would outlast me.

Provided Makita hasn't decided to throw QC away by going the cheapy China route, you'll get many years of service from your new drill.
Regards.

Al

[Travis Edwards]

I recently purchased an AEG 18 volt lithium ION, I have used makitas, hitachis, bosch and all and sundry of others. I find the hitachis give me blisters where the "ERGONOMIC" handpiece sits between the thumb and forefinger, if used for more than about half a dozen screws.

Any way I bought it as I had had a bosch for many years and the batteries died finally so I then proceeded to go through about 5 cheap drills in 2 years and after taking the last one back as It would not hold a charge after about the third charge, I decided it was time to bite the bullet and buy something decent. One of the guys I work with had just bought a hitachi and I had tried all and sundry of others so I did the look around and found the AEG I did real world comparisons (as best as possible) and was so impressed I bought it. my mate who owns the hitachi has even stated that he prefers it to his hitachi after we recently used it on a fairly big job at work. Although there was not much change out of $400 I am very happy with its performance and would recommend it to anyone.

Another plus is that it comes with a full 3 year warranty. It has dual 1.5 amp hour batteries and you can use the 3.0 amp hour batteries of either milwaukee or AEG as they are the same thing.

[TP1]

You missed the full range of li-ion drills from Panasonic which I am sure was being used on the work sites you visited. The 21.6v EY7960LN2S for example with two 3AH Li-ion battery packs is awesome and is what I ended up getting, although I would have also happily settled for Makita.

I wanted to buy Festool initially but they do not make an impact drill

[armourj]

Of course, the other trick I have found to make it easier to put screws in is to rub the thread over a cake of soap - it adds just enough lubrication to help ease the thread into the timber.

This is not a good idea as soap is very corrosive (alkaline). Either use dry lube on your screws or get waxed screws such as from Sachys Robertson (http://sachys-robertson.com.au) which also has the considerable benefit of square drive.

[ribonzz]

I prefer Metabo BS18Li Because it's cheap and it's lighter than the others :)

[Bebbo]

This is not a good idea as soap is very corrosive (alkaline). Either use dry lube on your screws or get waxed screws such as from Sachys Robertson (Sachys Robertson Screws (http://sachys-robertson.com.au)) which also has the considerable benefit of square drive.

You've had problems putting screws in timber? ... Hardwood or something?

Ive still got the old trusty 14.4v makita 2 speed big drill with the red battery.

Its 5 years old and still strong as ever. Puts in 150mm beugals WITHOUT countersinking them. Im actually trying to kill it so i can go buy a new one. But it seems to kick on!

The new makita impact driver (18v 1/4 inch chuck one) is average. My cordless is stronger.

Ive played with the new panasonic ones, they are great, not too heavy and still strong. But im goin to opt for the new makita 18v with the 3ah batteries like everyone else at work. 3 speed + hammer, lots of torque on low speed, like just as much as my drill, just starts to wear away at your wrist after a whole day of drilling. A bit heavy IMO.

The impact driver is too loud. I gotta wear muffs when using it all day.

[totoblue]

You've had problems putting screws in timber? ... Hardwood or something?
I've still got the old trusty 14.4v makita 2 speed big drill with the red battery. ... Puts in 150mm beugals WITHOUT countersinking them.

I've had screws break off when screwing into old seasoned hardwood (my house frame & trim). That's using a cordless drill and holes sized according to Sutton drill-bit/screw-size gauge. Perhaps an impact driver is less likely to break screws, I don't know.

There are a lot of crap screws around these days but I've had what appear to be quality brand-name screws break, back in the good old days when they made screws in Au. A broken screw is a bugger to remove.

A bit of lube stops the screws from breaking if you don't want to oversize the drill bit. I use a smear of petroleum jelly.

I've got a feeling that drilling the pilot hole using a wood drill-bit will polish/burn the hole less than using a metal/universal drill-bit. Perhaps the screw is more likely to bind in a pilot hole that got too hot and burnt a bit.

[Bebbo]

I've had screws break off when screwing into old seasoned hardwood (my house frame & trim). That's using a cordless drill and holes sized according to Sutton drill-bit/screw-size gauge. Perhaps an impact driver is less likely to break screws, I don't know.

There are a lot of crap screws around these days but I've had what appear to be quality brand-name screws break, back in the good old days when they made screws in Au. A broken screw is a bugger to remove.

A bit of lube stops the screws from breaking if you don't want to oversize the drill bit. I use a smear of petroleum jelly.

I've got a feeling that drilling the pilot hole using a wood drill-bit will polish/burn the hole less than using a metal/universal drill-bit. Perhaps the screw is more likely to bind in a pilot hole that got too hot and burnt a bit.

I renovate homes for a living. Soon as its hardwood i almost always try and get out of the job for this very reason lol

Hardwood frames are never straight and its a bitch to screw too!!

When screwing i just pre drill. I don't go off what is recommended, i just go a bit bigger than the shank size but not big enough that the screw won't snap. If possible use closer centres for this reason.

You test out the hilti drill combo? i used brand new 12.4v(think its .4 anyway) at work... They're awesome!!! very strong, just a little bit heavy compared to what im happy with. Also they were $1100 for impact and drill driver.

[haugh richard]

Thanks for a very exhaustive and detailed analysis. Did you consider Festool drills?

...

[njray]

I have a makita model 6095d since 1985 9.6v battery. Was thinking of getting new makita 452hw hammer drill, comes with 2 batteries,charger and ccase for under $200.00. The old drill works great but battery wont hold charge as well. It is the same battery since i bought it. used constantly.should i just get battery $60.00 or just get new kit. any ideas thanks

[bobsreturn2003]

bought a 12v makita 3 speed hammerdrill bare off ebay for 120 and had the charger , batteries are around 60 , suits me fine trade quality drill . cheers :)

[Johncs]

Charleville, if the Bosch is still ok (chuck doesn't wobble, motor ok, etc) then have you thought about getting the battery re-packed? I have had a couple done for my F-I-L and they work quite well. From memory it is $49 for cheapie cells, $76 for decent cells and over $100 for Pro battery cells. The co. is akkupak and have given me good service. Found the site again: Akkupak | Battery Repacking (http://www.akkupak.com.au/page/battery_repacking.html)

However, if you don't have a good battery charger than I would be leery of going down that path as the battery will fail again the same way after time. I use a hobby charger to charge up my FIL's drills now.

Waikune, the LTX is the $600+ model. 2.0kg, 2.6Ah, 96Nm. Fabulous specs (and a price to match). Looks like a great drill and fairly priced.

I have a Green Bosch 14v4 NiCd unit. A pair of replacement batteries (it came with two batteries) is about equal to the price of a new drill. When the time came, I bought Maktia, still NiCs, it doesn't get the workload to justify the more expensive Li models.

[Beetle Shirt]

I bought an AEG BS18XL 18V Li ion driver drill to assemble my new shed. Something like 600 Tek screws was worth a decent drill. This was maybe a little heavy at 1.8kg, but doesn't worry me. The 52Nm torque through metal planetary gears, a 13mm keyless chuck, 2 x 1.5Ah batteries with 30min charge won me over, even at about $350.

Happy to report that it's been all I hoped for. Feels great to use, and has grunt to burn. I had family helping me put the shed up, and they brought a cheapie cordless drill that couldn't remove the Tek screws I'd put in with the AEG. The other drill wouldn't undo the Tek screws on its max torque setting, and I'd backed off the torque setting on my AEG to avoid twisting the heads off the Tek screws.