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Daddy3x
20th October 2009, 01:04 PM
I have some time this weekend and want to now make a teardrop scraper for cleaning interior walls and transition areas. I have all the parts, but need to know what type/thickness of steel to hunt down this week. Any cheap suggestions? I would rather not go buy pre-done scraper head. I really am liking making stuff on my own, cheap and done right, or I can only blame myself. Thanks.

Ad de Crom
20th October 2009, 05:12 PM
Hi daddy, I'm also a guy who love it to make my own stuff as much as possible.
Made multifacenet scrapers from a blade of a racing skate. This blade is 2mm thick,
Just a matter of grinding the shape and drill a hole
Ad

powderpost
20th October 2009, 10:04 PM
Hi Daddy, I regularly make a scraper by silver soldering a piece heavy duty machine hack saw blade to a piece of 30 x 10mm mild steel bar. They work well.
Jim

TTIT
20th October 2009, 11:27 PM
If you can find an old planer blade they make great teardrop scrapers. I scored one about 3mm thick and 35mm wide (no idea what it came off :shrug: ). I used a 1mm thick cutting wheel in a 4" angle grinder to cut the basic shape out and refined the shape on a normal grinder. I have a set of special drill bits to drill the mounting hole in the HSS but you could just cut a slot in from the side with the angle grinder if need be.

Wilco Flier
21st October 2009, 03:11 AM
I made a multitip scraper from an old metalwork file. Only the tip is from the file, he works wel. Its a copT of the Sorby rs 200kt.

Daddy3x
21st October 2009, 09:11 AM
18 years of hockey and the first of many solutions is in my garage, the multiple pairs of old skates. Should provide more than enough to start with. I knew I would eventually be able to justify my packrat tendecies..."I might really need this someday." So any reasonable thickness steel should suffice. Where are the oddest places you all find your metal?

Skew ChiDAMN!!
22nd October 2009, 11:13 AM
Like TTiT, I find that old HSS jointer & thicknesser blades are ideal. :2tsup:

They do take a bit of extra tooling to work though, but it's worth it.

Paul39
23rd October 2009, 11:01 AM
Quote " Where are the oddest places you all find your metal?"

I do a little metal working so I pick up stray steel as well as stray wood lying about.

My oddest piece was a hunk of corroded, concrete covered, steel bar, 1/2 X 3/8 inch that had been used as a concrete form stake.

One day out of curiosity I spark tested it on the grinder and it was high carbon steel.

I put a curved nose, 80 degree grind on it and it is one of my most used tools. It is a little over two feet long with a fat handle so does not bounce around. I use it for hollowing bowls and the outside also.

When I use it I turn the grinder on along with the lathe, cut a bit, give it a swipe on the grinder, cut a bit, etc.

I have a forged bicycle crank that I'm grinding down to make the hole where the pedal goes in into a circular cutting tool. I'm using the end as a heavy scraper until it is ground thin enough.

GC
23rd October 2009, 09:48 PM
Hi all,

Done this before, but had lots of issues drilling the tool steel....eventually used a tile drill!

Anyone got better a solution?

GC

TTIT
24th October 2009, 12:02 AM
Hi all,

Done this before, but had lots of issues drilling the tool steel....eventually used a tile drill!

Anyone got better a solution?

GCI bought a set of what I think are carbide tipped drill bits from a bloke based in Vic. They weren't cheap but they do the job very nicely in HSS and go through tool steel like butter. I posted details of them way back on this thread.
(http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/what-do-i-make-these-84807/index2.html#post853737)

Evan Pavlidis
24th October 2009, 03:27 AM
I bought a set of what I think are carbide tipped drill bits from a bloke based in Vic. They weren't cheap but they do the job very nicely in HSS and go through tool steel like butter. I posted details of them way back on this thread.
(http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/what-do-i-make-these-84807/index2.html#post853737)


Superb drill bits....they go through anything effortlessly and I picked up spare sets from trash and treasure markets brand new for much less than the normal price more than 10 years ago, and still working well.
I don't think the stall holder knew the quality of these bits he was flogging for next to nothing. I just had to buy them as spares.
The first set I bought was in 1993 from the wood show and at the time they set me back $70, which was a lot but well worth every cent.
It is beyond me why they are not sold in tool shops or hardware chains

TTIT
24th October 2009, 08:13 PM
Superb drill bits.....................
It is beyond me why they are not sold in tool shops or hardware chains...'cos then every bugga would be making their own scrapers and they'd never get to sell another :; and blokes wouldn't keep wreckin' their soggy old HSS bits and have to replace so many :U

Frank&Earnest
25th October 2009, 12:09 AM
...'cos then every bugga would be making their own scrapers and they'd never get to sell another :; and blokes wouldn't keep wreckin' their soggy old HSS bits and have to replace so many :U

My sentiments entirely. :)

I am doing a bit of research on the definitions, and if I understand correctly "shear" scraping or cutting is defined as such only by the angle between the blade and the grain. It would therefore follow that no blade is a "shear" blade in itself, because any blade can be used in shear mode. So, if something is sold as shear something, I take it to mean only that it is supposed to work best for that mode of cutting. Am I missing something?

In particular, if a skew is designed to shear (as Skew said in 2005:wink:) and a gouge can be used to cut and shear, why are only certain scrapers defined "shear scrapers"?

GC
25th October 2009, 09:53 AM
Carbide tipped hey, will have to Ebay now.......
Thanks for the tips

GC

GC
25th October 2009, 09:58 AM
not that expensive....

Think I paid $12 for one!

6PCE TUNGSTEN CARBIDE TIPED GLASS & TILE DRILL SET - eBay Drills, Power Tools, Tools, Home. (end time 02-Nov-09 20:19:49 AEDST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/6PCE-TUNGSTEN-CARBIDE-TIPED-GLASS-TILE-DRILL-SET_W0QQitemZ270464777927QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Power_Tools?hash=item3ef8f4fec7)

GC

TTIT
25th October 2009, 10:36 AM
.....................
In particular, if a skew is designed to shear (as Skew said in 2005:wink:) and a gouge can be used to cut and shear, why are only certain scrapers defined "shear scrapers"?Can't really answer that except that the Sorby 'shear' scraper has a rounded back to the shaft so that when you roll it to an angle, you are still supporting the tool below the cut. With a normal scraper, if you angle the edge to 'shear' scrape, the cut is not supported directly below and can be difficult to control - or at least that's my take on it if it makes any sense :shrug:. You also get a similar effect to shear scraping with a 'long' ground bowl gouge right up on its side but I'm not going to try and explain that one - it just works :shrug:


not that expensive....

Think I paid $12 for one!

6PCE TUNGSTEN CARBIDE TIPED GLASS & TILE DRILL SET - eBay Drills, Power Tools, Tools, Home. (end time 02-Nov-09 20:19:49 AEDST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/6PCE-TUNGSTEN-CARBIDE-TIPED-GLASS-TILE-DRILL-SET_W0QQitemZ270464777927QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Power_Tools?hash=item3ef8f4fec7)

GCHmmm - not the same thing really - don't like your chances on steel with those GC :C

hughie
25th October 2009, 01:13 PM
Hmm, ditto for me on the tungsten the tips in question are for glass or tiles, for steel its a different configuration

Texian
25th October 2009, 01:26 PM
The very cheap and crudely made carbide masonry drills will cut some fairly hard steel. A friend recently gifted me with a piece of metal-cutting bandsaw blade (1/16" x 1") to make a thin parting tool, and suggested use of the masonry bit. Just like drilling mild steel. Contrary to popular opinion, these bits can be sharpened with an ordinary gray grinding wheel (light pressure and motor gently). It's a little tough on the wheel, but I do it so rarely that it doesn't matter. Not sure how well the cheapie drills would work on thicker and/or harder material.

Frank&Earnest
25th October 2009, 05:56 PM
Can't really answer that except that the Sorby 'shear' scraper has a rounded back to the shaft so that when you roll it to an angle, you are still supporting the tool below the cut. With a normal scraper, if you angle the edge to 'shear' scrape, the cut is not supported directly below and can be difficult to control - or at least that's my take on it if it makes any sense :shrug:.

Makes sense to me, and has switched on a light bulb, thanks :2tsup:.

You also get a similar effect to shear scraping with a 'long' ground bowl gouge right up on its side but I'm not going to try and explain that one - it just works :shrug:

Yes, found that out myself by trial and error, it's another piece of the puzzle in the right place.



A bit more research and I should be able to work out what is going on from a mechanical perspective. I think I might be on the verge of starting a new war on what cut is what.... This post will be presented as evidence. :;

powderpost
26th October 2009, 11:29 PM
"Normal" or "conventional" scraping is done with the tool flat on the tool rest with the handle slightly elevated, and the cutting edge on a line horizontal through the centre. Shear scraping has the handle down, with the blade tilted so that the left hand edge of the tool is supported on the tool rest. The process is a finishing cut and will produce nice fine curls. The term "shear" scraping refers to the process rather than the tool.
For what it is worth, that's my interpretation and practice.
Jim

Daddy3x
27th October 2009, 02:06 PM
Sounds good to me. I am picking up some 5/8 steel round hopefully this week finally, got some metal scrap in hand for the cutters. I have noticed that Sorby, maybe others, have a flat ground on the tool to register it at the 45. Why not just use a round bar and roll the tool over to the desired angle?

TTIT
27th October 2009, 04:33 PM
Sounds good to me. I am picking up some 5/8 steel round hopefully this week finally, got some metal scrap in hand for the cutters. I have noticed that Sorby, maybe others, have a flat ground on the tool to register it at the 45. Why not just use a round bar and roll the tool over to the desired angle?The flat side is what the teardrop scraper actually attaches to so it is parallel to the cutter. The flat is placed on the toolrest for stabilty when using the hollowing cutter and flipped over/rolled when shear scraping with the teardrop - which isn't necessarily at 45 degrees - a higher angle will give you an even finer cut etc which is why a round back is better :cool:

After-thought! That is unless Sorby have added another one or 2 flats to it since I bought mine :shrug:

efgee88
27th October 2009, 07:44 PM
I've got some steel from garden sheers and pruning cutters which have holes and all! Just a matter of grinding the right shape around the hole and mount on suitable handle.
Haven't done it yet but will report on result when done.

If anyone else has used such steel before, please let us know how it went as a scraper.

Cheers,

FrankG

TTIT
27th October 2009, 08:20 PM
I've got some steel from garden sheers and pruning cutters which have holes and all! Just a matter of grinding the right shape around the hole and mount on suitable handle.
Haven't done it yet but will report on result when done.

If anyone else has used such steel before, please let us know how it went as a scraper.

Cheers,

FrankGDon't know about turning tools but I once made a skinning knife out a set of garden shears - took and held a fine edge pretty good too - might even still have it somewhere ................ gawd knows where, 'twas about 30 years ago :B

rsser
28th October 2009, 08:03 PM
My take on 'shear' is that it refers to the angle of the cutting edge to the travel of the wood, not the tool per se. So rotate a curved edge scraper edge up at 45 degrees or so and you're shearing.

The effect is prob going to vary in hollowing a bowl say; depending on what section is coming down on the edge: end-grain, long-grain, cross-grain or the transition from one to another.

TTIT
2nd November 2009, 10:23 AM
I was trying out 's and Cliffs bowl-gouges at Prossy and got to show me a technique to remove the tearout on open-grain stuff like this White Cedar. (Turns out I've been doing a similar cut all along but with a very 'unique' method of handling the tool :B ) While testing the different techniques I also tried shear-scraping (my way!) to compare the results. On this particular wood, shear-scraping did reduce the tearout considerably but still fell short of 's fine-slicing cut with the wing of the long-ground bowl-gouge or a similar slicing cut with my spindle-gouge.
Anyway, got young Nev (another forumite) to take some shots of the shear-scraper in action - unfortunately the shots of it working the inside didn't really show the 'presentation' of the tool as well. :U

rsser
2nd November 2009, 10:37 AM
Interestink.

Been turning a bunch of Deodar bowls which has distinct grain diffs. Best result with a gouge was clean cut on late growth but some tear-out on the softer early growth. When cleaning that up with that Sorby tear-drop scraper the early growth finish was better but the late was worse. Sigh.

I'm also playing around with a burnished scraper edge. Harder to control than a burr since presentation is more critical and there's a self-feeding effect. I'm not as yet sold on it.

Frank&Earnest
2nd November 2009, 09:12 PM
My take on 'shear' is that it refers to the angle of the cutting edge to the travel of the wood, not the tool per se. So rotate a curved edge scraper edge up at 45 degrees or so and you're shearing.

The effect is prob going to vary in hollowing a bowl say; depending on what section is coming down on the edge: end-grain, long-grain, cross-grain or the transition from one to another.

Ern, IMHO "the angle of the cutting edge to the travel of the wood" is relevant because the direction of the fibres, albeit rotating, is more or less always on the same plane orthogonal to the spindle and, because the best cut is not with the grain or across the grain, it is at an angle, that's what tilting the blade is aiming at. It can't be the defining element of the technique, though, because that angle changes when the turner's position moves from being orthogonal to the spindle (outside of the bowl) to parallel to the spindle (inside of the bowl).

I am still convinced, from all the photos (including Vern's above), that the purpose and justification of "shear scraping" is to pull the top surface of the scraper to the surface of the wood at the appropriate angle (acute in the direction of pulling, obtuse if one refers to the penetration of the wood) for eliminating gouging, thus producing fluff and not a shaving. If a shaving is produced, IMHO it is not "shear scraping". Hence most of the confusion, probably.

This should be fairly easy to check, can any of the gurus confirm?

NeilS
2nd November 2009, 10:06 PM
Anyway, got young Nev (another forumite) to take some shots of the shear-scraper in action

That's a useful photo. When it comes to shear scraping, a great number of words can be written to explain what is plain obvious in a single photo.

Thanks, Vern

.....

NeilS
2nd November 2009, 11:17 PM
....thus producing fluff and not a shaving. If a shaving is produced, IMHO it is not "shear scraping". Hence most of the confusion, probably.

This should be fairly easy to check, can any of the gurus confirm?

Frank, will leave it to the gurus to speak for themselves, but heavy enough shear scraping would produce a sort of shaving, not fluff, and still be shear scraping, although the resulting finish would be rougher and not a good use of the tool.

The fluff has more to do with the lightness of a finishing cut than the angle of tool presentation. A light horizontal scrape (eg inside the the bottom of a bowl) will also produce fluff.

Hoped that helps you to sort things out a bit more.


.....

Frank&Earnest
3rd November 2009, 10:17 AM
Frank, will leave it to the gurus to speak for themselves, but heavy enough shear scraping would produce a sort of shaving, not fluff, and still be shear scraping, although the resulting finish would be rougher and not a good use of the tool.

The fluff has more to do with the lightness of a finishing cut than the angle of tool presentation. A light horizontal scrape (eg inside the the bottom of a bowl) will also produce fluff.

Hoped that helps you to sort things out a bit more.


.....

Thanks Neil. I surmise from the comparison with "horizontal" in the next sentence that you are talking of the 45 degrees tilt as defining the "angle". Did I understand correctly?

If this is so, you indeed confirm in better words what I was saying, I apologise for my poor expression. When I say that producing a shaving defeats the purpose of the technique, you say that the result would be poorer and not a good use of the tool.

Let's see if I can express myself better. The purpose of "shear scraping" is to achieve the best possible finish. My submission is that tilting the tool 45 degrees contributes to the purpose but does not in itself achieve it. This tilt contributes in two ways: helping to cut the grain at an intermediate angle between with and across the grain and helping to hit the surface of the wood in the same way a cabinet maker's scraper hits a flat surface. The best possible finish, and therefore the definition of the technique, is achieved when both aims are pursued.

Nothwithstanding your modesty, Neil, you have a very good standing in the turning fraternity and I am happy to include you among the gurus. :) I am sure that by observation you will be able to confirm or deny whether indeed the best result is achieved, all else being equal, when "the top surface of the scraper [I]to the surface of the wood at the appropriate angle (acute in the direction of pulling, obtuse if one refers to the penetration of the wood)". If I am talking crap, please say so, I can take it. :2tsup:

NeilS
5th November 2009, 04:17 PM
Frank - rather than getting into wordsmithing a definition for shear scraping, let's adopt some existing descriptions from established sources. The following all describe what I understand to be shear scraping:

Richard Raffan, here (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=v0Ixq14DIVYC&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=shear+scraping&source=bl&ots=7jjXEE_utX&sig=ccQK6NfNcdbkm8CtymqKsIjVEKI&hl=en&ei=a1bySuWWDZXq6gOfzOgS&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CCoQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=shear%20scraping&f=false).
This link (http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/shear-scrapers.html)has lots of good descriptions and tool info by Steven Russell
A collection of descriptions (by the Sydney Woodturners), here (http://www.sydneywoodturners.com.au/site/articles/techniques/scraping%20bowls.html)

Hope that helps

.....

jefferson
5th November 2009, 05:20 PM
Neil,

I've been playing with scrapers for some time. Well, a long time. :B

If I do an Ellsworth sheer scraping cut with the tool layed over on its back, I still get ridges. Tiny ones that sandpaper removes almost immediately. But not a great off-the-tool finish.

I much prefer using a scraper flat on the tool rest (no burr, Tormek sharp).

Worked OK at Proserpine on Boree which is fairly hard. (Ken W. insisted I use his radical 45 degree bevel scraper, knowing full well that I was scared of it. stood up for me, until Ken explained his reasoning..... Buggers. :D)

Or am I doing something wrong?

I know Ellsworth is a fine turner and makes do with just one chisel with his grind. But why bother?

Frank&Earnest
5th November 2009, 11:19 PM
Frank - rather than getting into wordsmithing a definition for shear scraping, let's adopt some existing descriptions from established sources. The following all describe what I understand to be shear scraping:

Richard Raffan, here (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=v0Ixq14DIVYC&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=shear+scraping&source=bl&ots=7jjXEE_utX&sig=ccQK6NfNcdbkm8CtymqKsIjVEKI&hl=en&ei=a1bySuWWDZXq6gOfzOgS&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CCoQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=shear%20scraping&f=false).
This link (http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/shear-scrapers.html)has lots of good descriptions and tool info by Steven Russell
A collection of descriptions (by the Sydney Woodturners), here (http://www.sydneywoodturners.com.au/site/articles/techniques/scraping%20bowls.html)

Hope that helps

.....

Sorry for my insistence on wordsmithing, Neil (professional syndrome, I am afraid) :) but you are nailing the problem with your own words. In my presumption, I want to find, or create if there is none, a definition. What the literature offers, as you say yourself, is descriptions. I want to explain why, not only how, it works. Richard Raffan's description and photo actually are the best so far to support my definition: he mentions pulling the upper surface of the blade towards the surface of the wood. The other descriptions are not very useful, I had already googled them in my earlier research, but none provides any contrary evidence.

Are you trying to tell me that you do not trust your power of observation? :D
BTW, seems that all the other gurus do not trust theirs either...:D:D

NeilS
7th November 2009, 11:55 AM
A few thoughts on what you have said, Jeff.




If I do an Ellsworth sheer scraping cut with the tool layed over on its back, I still get ridges. Tiny ones that sandpaper removes almost immediately. But not a great off-the-tool finish.

I'm not quite sure that I can quite envisage the cut that you are using there Jeff, when you say that the tool is 'over on its back'.

For a standard scraping cut I would expect the gouge to be on its side (tool handle almost horizontal and flute axis just above horizontal) with the lower wing doing the work. For a shear scraping cut I would expect it to be still on its side (flute axis just above horizontal) but with the handle dropped.

But, if you were to drop the handle even further (almost horizontal) and rotate the tool so that the bevel is rubbing and the wing cutting then, IMO, that is more of a shear cut than a shear scrape. A useful fine finishing cut but it will still leave some fine cutting ridges.

I use the latter to tidy up rough turned green blanks before putting them aside to season, but prefer to use dedicated scrapers before final sanding.

There is no reason why an Ellsworth gouge couldn't be used to shear scrape as well as any scraper (other than into tight corners and coves), BUT the downside is that they have to be re-jigged every time they have to be re-honed, whereas most standard scrapers can be quickly freehanded on a rest.

I much prefer using a scraper flat on the tool rest (no burr, Tormek sharp).

If it's working for you then stick with it, at least for now.

Worked OK at Proserpine on Boree which is fairly hard. (Ken W. insisted I use his radical 45 degree bevel scraper, knowing full well that I was scared of it. stood up for me, until Ken explained his reasoning..... Buggers. :D)

You're welcome to have a go at my 15° scrapers (more knives than a scraper) any time you like.... :U.

Or am I doing something wrong?

No, nothing wrong! Just give shear scraping a go at some stage if you haven't done so already. Shear scraping is less inclined to cause end-grain tear out, but is also less inclined to 'iron out' any irregularities in the profile.

I know Ellsworth is a fine turner and makes do with just one chisel with his grind. But why bother?

I can understand that some turners can get to a point where they prefer to make do with the tool that is in their hands rather than reaching for another tool. They will have the job done with what is in their hands before the other tool is checked for sharpness and the tool rest adjusted for it. Keep in mind that they will have proficiency with the various other tools and know how to get a 'similar' result from the tool already in their hands. While other turners have a specialist tool for every task and just love using lots of them.... :)

NeilS
7th November 2009, 12:14 PM
Are you trying to tell me that you do not trust your power of observation? :D



I must admit, that by the time I'm down to the scraping my attention is fully on the form and not the technique. More often than not, my eye is on the form on the opposite side of the pieces to where the tool is working. The visual, rather than the verbal, area of my brain is what is being fully exercised.

You are not likely to go too far wrong, Frank, if you adopt the Raffan description/definition. He has very few peers in combining both high level proficiency and very clear writing skills.

.....

rsser
7th November 2009, 12:36 PM
FWIW this thread has had me looking closely at where the tear-out occurs on bowl outsides. On two species examined, it's not the end grain - it's close to it after the long grain passes.

This is clearly the point at which the fibres have least support from their fellows further up the surface. Put the tool edge at a shear scraping angle and support is increased by the good offices of fibres closer to the headstock on the same plane.

This is why some turners use eg. a forged spindle gouge with the cutting edge around vertical. The downside is prob. slightly messier long grain but this will quickly scrape or sand clean.

jefferson
7th November 2009, 01:45 PM
A few thoughts on what you have said, Jeff.

Neil, I do appreciate the long advice / lesson. I type faster than most (the opposite for me when turning). 60 words a minute isn't too bad for a 50 year old???? :rolleyes: So I do appreciate your efforts. And all the encouragement given here FOC.

I think I am doing the sheer scraping right. Or so tells me. When I say the tool is "on its back", I probably should have described it as you did. Handle down, flute closed, almost to the point of touching both sides of the tool. Almost. Safe apparently.

As the Ellsworth DVD shows, you can cut up or downhill as the cut is so fine. Dunno whether he's tried it on Boree though. :D

As for your 15 degree scrapers...... Politely, stick it, Neil. :D:D Maybe in 5 years time..... I've got a Ken W 45 degree one sitting out in the shed and I haven't put in anywhere near wood..... :no:

I truly don't know what all this fuss is about re: time and using only one tool. I wander around the shed at my leisure - no production turning pressure - and lope over to the Tormek and sharpen a chisel (10 or more steps, not the recommended 5). For me, that's what it's all about. Turning time should not be about the money - unless, of course, you need it.

I haven't got my turning area ideal, nor the other parts of the shed either for that matter. Plenty of room for another lathe or two (still tossing up between a VL200 short bed and a "modified" shorter-bed 750 Stubby - Jim C. HELP!!!)

Thanks, again, Neil. Most, if not all, of the Mexicans reckon you give great advice. :2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

NeilS
7th November 2009, 03:57 PM
FWIW this thread has had me looking closely at where the tear-out occurs on bowl outsides. On two species examined, it's not the end grain - it's close to it after the long grain passes.



Agreed, Ern, 'end-grain' was just my shorthand way of saying the tear-out prone area. In my experience it's the transition area just after the end grain begins to become long grain that is the prone area. As you say, this is where the fibres are least supported.


I type faster than most (the opposite for me when turning). 60 words a minute isn't too bad for a 50 year old????

Can't even think that quickly, so the two finger hunt and peck is just about right for me!

I think I am doing the sheer scraping right. Or so tells me. When I say the tool is "on its back", I probably should have described it as you did. Handle down, flute closed, almost to the point of touching both sides of the tool. Almost. Safe apparently.

That's it.

As for your 15 degree scrapers...... Politely, stick it, Neil.

******* :U

I truly don't know what all this fuss is about re: time and using only one tool. I wander around the shed at my leisure - no production turning pressure - and lope over to the Tormek and sharpen a chisel (10 or more steps, not the recommended 5). For me, that's what it's all about. Turning time should not be about the money - unless, of course, you need it.

The gentleman turner! Not to be scoffed at, Darwin was a gentleman scientist and he more than made his mark on science.

Thanks, again, Neil.

Your welcome



.....