This may interest some.

[RETIRED]

Particularly the interviews with Stuart and Allan Batty.

Lathe Videos (http://www.mefeedia.com/tags/lathe)

[Ozkaban]

Thanks . Interesting looking site. That should fill in a few moments when I should be otherwise engaged at work!

Cheers,
Dave

[Allen Neighbors]

I went to your link, then browsed around and came across this.
Hawaii Bowl Turner Elmer Adams PART #1 Video (http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/23655593)
Thanks, ! I watched all four of Elmer Adam's videos, (and I thought my deep hollowing tools were big). I learned a bit, and the music along with the Hawaii Bowl turning Show was top notch!!
Greenies to you!
Hey! How do you give the greenies, now?

[rsser]

Is turning a trade in Vic ?

Was it ever?

[rsser]

Here's one for Brendan ... CNC turning of a flute: click (http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/milling-a-native-american-flute/16554382)

[RETIRED]

Is turning a trade in Vic ?

Was it ever?Yes and no. As far as I am aware it is lumped in with Wood Machining.

NSW is the only state that has a dedicated woodturning course I think but that is under review I believe.

[Jim Carroll]

There was also one in QLD but that got duck shoved for the wood machining, no good trying to teach someone to turn when a machine can do the job better and quicker. :oo:

[RETIRED]

Real Woodturning.:D

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

[rsser]

Snap! Just watched that one. Terrific.

Also like The Turnist but the search engine on that site is wacky.

[Calm]

Real Woodturning.:D

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mvokYRTyOY&feature=related)

What no vase on that one:D:D

Cheers

[RETIRED]

Snap! Just watched that one. Terrific.

Also like The Turnist but the search engine on that site is wacky.
Very strange.:rolleyes:

[tea lady]

Real Woodturning.:D

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mvokYRTyOY&feature=related)

That sweeping action he has with the gouge doing the coves is interesting! :pi: :cool:

[RETIRED]

That sweeping action he has with the gouge doing the coves is interesting! :pi: :cool:That is the way production turners work on big stuff. I will show you on Thurs.

[jefferson]

and Co,

I watched the You Tube piece a couple of times.

Just a few thoughts (in no particular order):

- I've seen as good or better here
- the sinc-speed was up, not realistic
- I notice he scraped his beads with the skew at one stage, then re-cut with the skew
- impressive certainly
- but can he do two near the same?
- the wood looked soft: what's he like on short-grained redgum?
- I saw at least one catch (that made me feel good)
- all old-hands seem to do it the same, with minor variations (changing hands etc)
- all pretty to watch

Yes, a long way to go.... But I already knew that.

And if I am wrong on any of the above, please share your thoughts with me. I've got a lump or 3 of some fiddleack redgum ready to send OS and will eagerly await a replay in real-time. And a close-up of the finish off the tool. :D:D:D (One piece had been out in the sun a while....)

And maybe Calm has some damned blackwood to send as well..... :rolleyes: (And it's not even good for firewood.)

[Ed Reiss]

Good post ...have bookmarked the vid site...still learning after all these years.

[Ed Reiss]

, about the "Wooden Finials" vid, I noticed that the spindle gouge he's using has a rather steep angle on the grind...appears to be around 50 + degrees, what do you reckon it is?

[tea lady]

, about the "Wooden Finials" vid, I noticed that the spindle gouge he's using has a rather steep angle on the grind...appears to be around 50 + degrees, what do you reckon it is?I reckon he's using a bowl gouge.:pi:

:oo:I thought you said he was doing "real" turning !:doh:

[tea lady]

That is the way production turners work on big stuff. I will show you on Thurs.:doh: Dam! I was gonna do little stuff.:D



- but can he do two near the same?
:rolleyes: I think that's what the guy does! Lots the same.
And its not all about red gum. :p

[RETIRED]

and Co,

I watched the You Tube piece a couple of times.

Just a few thoughts (in no particular order):

- I've seen as good or better here
- the sinc-speed was up, not realistic That is the speed we turn at in full flight Jeff.
- I notice he scraped his beads with the skew at one stage, then re-cut with the skew Not scraping. A peel cut to reduce diameter.
- impressive certainly
- but can he do two near the same? Probably done thousands, like me.
- the wood looked soft: what's he like on short-grained redgum? Probably Oregon. Don't normally do post capitols (finials) in hard wood.
- I saw at least one catch (that made me feel good)We all have them.:D
- all old-hands seem to do it the same, with minor variations (changing hands etc) Because we were all taught the right way.:rolleyes:
- all pretty to watch

Yes, a long way to go.... But I already knew that.

And if I am wrong on any of the above, please share your thoughts with me. I've got a lump or 3 of some fiddleack redgum ready to send OS and will eagerly await a replay in real-time. And a close-up of the finish off the tool. :D:D:D (One piece had been out in the sun a while....)

And maybe Calm has some damned blackwood to send as well..... :rolleyes: (And it's not even good for firewood.)


, about the "Wooden Finials" vid, I noticed that the spindle gouge he's using has a rather steep angle on the grind...appears to be around 50 + degrees, what do you reckon it is?About 45 degrees. I use the same because it is a good all round angle that gives good strength to the cutting edge in most timbers.


I reckon he's using a bowl gouge.:pi: Hard to say but would not be unusual. I do the same on some long overhanging work.

:oo:I thought you said he was doing "real" turning !:doh:He is. Between centres.

[jefferson]

Particularly the interviews with Stuart and Allan Batty.

Lathe Videos (http://www.mefeedia.com/tags/lathe)

I spent the time to look at the interviews.

I certainly agree with one thing: make the wood (if it's of fine quality) talk for itself. Not sure about the off-centre turning yet, but to me (contrary to a far better turner in R. Raffan, do not like an over-emphasis on embelishment.) A plain piece of wood may need something more admittedly. But, IMHO, getting the shape etc right is more important, not only for beginners.

Subject of course to the ever-present caveat: I am still learning. The little box Ed sent me is embellished and it is now part of my growing collection. And it has pride of place among all the other "nice" stuff. None mine. Not just yet.

The one damn thing that confuses/ annoys me most is that many turners do it differently. Different cuts, different chisels..... All part of the learning experience.

It certainly is an eye-opener.

Now if those in the UK or the USA had Dead Finish or Boree.... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Or some of the real hard stuff. Heading north is autum with the trailer to harvest some hard stuff. Hard on the chainsaw, saw blades but such a great finish.

[rsser]

Hard to see that the moves would be diff in dense timber. Just slower. Or shallower.

[RETIRED]

Hard to see that the moves would be diff in dense timber. Just slower. Or shallower.Yep, and sharpen the chisels more often.

[jefferson]

Ern and ,

Not being argumentative here.

Just a quick story. I was down at DJ's some months back. He / we were turning some redgum grinders. One piece in particular had a lot on feature in it.

The chisels were sharp, I took the Tormek down. Good chisels, so no complaints about the steel.

And no complaints above DJ's tool work either. Sure, he's not a pro, but he turns well enough.

(I think you saw the non-figured grinder the other day, not the one I'm referring to).

Now, I watched for most of it and kept the chisels sharp. On the "flats", all the skew did was pick the wood out. Light cuts or heavy, it made no difference. And not much better cutting "downhill".

Then DJ tried (I think) my 1/2 inch HT Euro spindle gouge. Light cuts etc, same result, though a slight improvement.

DJ finally went for a 3/8 bowl gouge and it worked fine.

I have some idea as to the "why", but not all of it.

Over to you guys.....

[rsser]

Not sure what your point is Jeff.

The turner in the vid was using a gouge mostly too; bit hard to see the flute depth properly. Perhaps somewhere between a shallow and deep one.

Without going back to the vid I think the only finish cut use of the skew was on the fillets?

[Calm]

Jeff the same happens with a lot of Blackwood - Skew's can be a real PITA and just tear out.

A simple explanation is
- It is all to do with the angle that the edge cutting meets the timber. -
When we made that Jumper frame at your place you pointed out the thicknesser tearing out one way and leaving a beautiful finish when the timber is presented the other way.

On the lathe it is exactly the same all to do with the "lay of the grain", the "support" underneath and the angle that the cutting edge meets it. Then sometimes no matter what you do it still tears out.

I know clear as mud

Cheers

[RETIRED]

I have stated many times that there are some timbers that no matter what you do, you will not get a good finish from a chisel or gouge and you have to use a scraper.

Most curly grained or highly figured hardwoods are susceptible to grain tear out.

[jefferson]

Thanks, guy (again). :2tsup:

My thinking is that the little bowl gouge worked because it presented a smaller cutting edge to the wood - and that DJ really slowed down the cutting and upped the speed (I think). And I had two 3/8 gouges going on interchange from lathe to the grinder.

And Calm, I will master that blackwood of yours. I did by default Sunday - with a power-sander after a lot of careful scraping. :D:D:D Who would know the difference???

[NeilS]

I have stated many times that there are some timbers that no matter what you do, you will not get a good finish from a chisel or gouge and you have to use a scraper.

Most curly grained or highly figured hardwoods are susceptible to grain tear out.

....:2tsup: Another one for the 1000 turning tips (or whatever number it is up to now), Jeff.

This is also why a plane maker like Terry Gordon (http://www.hntgordon.com.au/) uses such high blade angles in his wood planes which are designed for Australian curly/figured hardwoods. Their high blade angle make a scraper-like cut.

.....





.....

[jefferson]

Neil, I haven't forgotten the 1000 turning tips. Busy with quite a few things, but I promise to get there soon. Remind me if I don't!

[rsser]

This is also why a plane maker like Terry Gordon (http://www.hntgordon.com.au/) uses such high blade angles in his wood planes which are designed for Australian curly/figured hardwoods. Their high blade angle make a scraper-like cut.

Wouldn't the physics be a bit different Neil?

The high angle couples with a tight mouth to give a Type 2 chip, ie. the shaving is broken off before it can tear out below the level of the oncoming surface.

[NeilS]

Wouldn't the physics be a bit different Neil?

The high angle couples with a tight mouth to give a Type 2 chip, ie. the shaving is broken off before it can tear out below the level of the oncoming surface.

Ern, I've forgotten more about Franz chip types than I ever fully understood...:U... so I can't give you a confident reply in terms of Type I, II or III chips, other than to intuitively suggest that a Gordon plane with 60° blade angle produces something between a Type II and Type III shavings, depending on the wood and shaving thickness, but in scraper mode (ie with the the blade reversed for a 90° cutting angle) on hardwoods they produce more of a fluffy Type III shaving.

For anyone that is wondering, the three chip types are shown in Figures 7, 8 & 9 here (http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0103-90162005000400002&script=sci_arttext).

Putting aside the chip types, what can I say from my own experience? Very high angle and scraper planes handle cranky grain and figured hardwoods better than planes with standard 45° blades. Also, scraper planes, freehand scrapers and turning scrapers all produce the same light fluffy shavings, when a light cut is taken.

As for the exact physics involved, I'll have to think a bit more about that Ern.

.....

[rsser]

FWIW the nub of it would seem to be in the relationship between cutting (or breaking) and lifting as the blade enters the fibres and what direction the fibres run re the blade.

In this case maybe it works like this:

The burr on a cabinet scraper like that on a turning scraper comes in to the wood closer to 90 degrees than blades do and cut or break before lifting the fibres. It goes more shallowly so the fibres have less adhesion from those further on and so part from them more readily.

Afterthoughts: the last sentence more re endgrain than long.

Speed must be an influence too.

[NeilS]

FWIW the nub of it would seem to be in the relationship between cutting (or breaking) and lifting as the blade enters the fibres and what direction the fibres run re the blade.

In this case maybe it works like this:

The burr on a cabinet scraper like that on a turning scraper comes in to the wood closer to 90 degrees than blades do and cut or break before lifting the fibres. It goes more shallowly so the fibres have less adhesion from those further on and so part from them more readily.

Afterthoughts: the last sentence more re endgrain than long.

Speed must be an influence too.

Yes, Ern, that's the nub of it.

And, with the benefit of a sleep on it and a clearer brain, I think there are two key factors:

A very fine shaving will allow for a cleaner break away of the chip without rupturing the subsurface.

The second is that the compression forces (and associated deformation as the blade passes) in a Type III cut run almost parallel to the direction of the cut and therefore there is less risk of splitting along the grain below the surface of the cut. This factor is be more beneficial with hardwoods, as softwoods would tend to radiate the compression forces more widely.

Without taxing the grey matter too much, I expect that the 'shear scrape' method helps to deflect the compression forces laterally away from the subsurface area, thus helping to further reduce the tendency for subsurface tear out. But that's another can of worms that is best not opened here, as we are already getting a bit off the topic of the videos.

.....