Grumble, grumble, $#%@#$% Rougher

[TTIT]

Spent an hour or 2 last night roughing down the biggest lump of wood I've ever put on a lathe and today my wrist and shoulder are killing me from the un-natural position you hold those Ci1 styled roughers :~. Has anyone else experienced similar ??? or has anyone tried a different handle arrangement to get around the problem??? ........... or is it just me :B:C

[Cliff Rogers]

:think: I don't remember having a problem BUT... I didn't use it for an hour or 2 at once.

[Ozkaban]

Which end were you holding :shrug:

[rsser]

Well you only have one presentation option, so maybe Vern its just .....

OLD AGE.

[rsser]

Actually depending on the tip mounting there is another presentation option.

Woodwork Wally did his own tip mounting and lined up the tip bevel roughly with a bar tip bevel. So presumably with that you could lift the tip for a bit of bevel rub rather than just having to cope with the pounding on the tip when the bar is horizontal.

Anyway, serves you right using such neanderthal tools ;-}

[RETIRED]

Spent an hour or 2 last night roughing down the biggest lump of wood I've ever put on a lathe and today my wrist and shoulder are killing me from the un-natural position you hold those Ci1 styled roughers :~. Has anyone else experienced similar ??? or has anyone tried a different handle arrangement to get around the problem??? ........... or is it just me :B:CWelcome to my world.:wink::D I would say that it is because you found muscles you weren't using before.

[tea lady]

:think: Watching use it the other day I reckon it is a bit wrong ergonomically. You have to hold your arm too high to hold your arm in a natural way. Its comfy holding normal roughers with the handle, and thus your back hand, down at hip level. Maybe the lathe needs to be lower, or you need to wear stilts so that your back hand is in a better position. :shrug:

[rsser]

Not a problem if you think of it as a gym and not a turning shed.

[Sawdust Maker]

Can't say I had such problems when I used the one going around the forum a while ago
but then I'm not sure I get the shed time that you get
As commented
I often find muscles that haven't been used for a while (a long while), and by gawd they hurt, my physio seems to be happy though :doh:

[joe greiner]

Welcome to my world.:wink::D I would say that it is because you found muscles you weren't using before.
Same as with cross-country skiing after a few years away from it. Ouch!

Cheers,
Joe

[NeilS]

Vern - put a longer handle on mine and also use it with the bevel rubbing, so held in similar position to big gouges. Can't say I have noticed any extra muscles after a long session of roughing blanks (large, small or irregular).

....

[thefixer]

Spent an hour or 2 last night roughing down the biggest lump of wood I've ever put on a lathe and today my wrist and shoulder are killing me from the un-natural position you hold those Ci1 styled roughers :~. Has anyone else experienced similar ??? or has anyone tried a different handle arrangement to get around the problem??? ........... or is it just me :B:C


So, just what is the "un-natural position"? I gather from Tea Lady's comments that you need to hold your arm higher than normal.If so, then that may mean that your arm is higher than your heart and this can lead to problems with blood flow and therefore increase the effects of fatigue and soreness. I'm not a medical expert, this was explained to me by my heart specialist after my operation.

[joe greiner]

Have you tried adjusting the toolrest height? The "equator" doesn't have to be dead level, just at a proper angle of attack.

Cheers,
Joe

[artme]

Haven't seen, let alone tried, one of these beasts yet, but from what you all say it might be worth standing on a platform.

[TTIT]

Well you only have one presentation option, so maybe Vern its just .....

OLD AGE.Naahh!, couldn't be :B


Welcome to my world.:wink::D I would say that it is because you found muscles you weren't using before.Hmmmm - maybe not for a few months anyway :no:


:think: Watching use it the other day I reckon it is a bit wrong ergonomically. You have to hold your arm too high to hold your arm in a natural way. Its comfy holding normal roughers with the handle, and thus your back hand, down at hip level. Maybe the lathe needs to be lower, or you need to wear stilts so that your back hand is in a better position. :shrug:That's pretty much on the money TL except I can't lower the lathe and I'm not much of a circus act (contrary to popular belief :U )

Have you tried adjusting the toolrest height? The "equator" doesn't have to be dead level, just at a proper angle of attack.

Cheers,
Joe So simple when you think about it - good idea Joe :2tsup: I'll give it a try next time I use the rougher.

[hughie]

[I would say that it is because you found muscles you weren't using before


Nah, the poor old bloke is just getting old......:U

[rsser]

Same as with cross-country skiing after a few years away from it. Ouch!

Cheers,
Joe

That makes two of us Joe :2tsup:

Boy does XC skiing keep you fit. It's the most aerobically demanding form of exercise there is.

Flip side is that a solid hour's worth means you can eat 8 Mars bars or drink 8 pots of Guinness :D (But don't drink and slide :wink: )

[dai sensei]

Have you tried adjusting the toolrest height? The "equator" doesn't have to be dead level, just at a proper angle of attack.

So simple when you think about it - good idea Joe :2tsup: I'll give it a try next time I use the rougher.

Not sure what adjusting the tool rest would do. The tool must be horizontal, and at close to the center of the piece. If you lower the tool rest, does that imply you are suggesting taking an angled approach to the work - if so, don't do it :oo:

I must admit I take an unusual hold for the tool. I have a long handle and hold it half way along, then use my elbow (of the same arm) to ballance the end of the handle, whilst guiding the tip with my other hand. Hope that makes sense.

's probably right, as usual, sore musles.

[TTIT]

Not sure what adjusting the tool rest would do. The tool must be horizontal, and at close to the center of the piece. If you lower the tool rest, does that imply you are suggesting taking an angled approach to the work - if so, don't do it :oo: As long as the line of the shaft points to the centre of the work the tool will work the same so lowering the toolrest will let me lower the handle to a more comfortable position.:U

I must admit I take an unusual hold for the tool. I have a long handle and hold it half way along, then use my elbow (of the same arm) to ballance the end of the handle, whilst guiding the tip with my other hand. Hope that makes sense.

's probably right, as usual, sore musles.Tried that method Neil and that's what made my wrist sore - forearm along the handle left the wrist too angled.:C

[Ed Reiss]

Nah, the poor old bloke is just getting old......:U

that's my excuse Hughie :C

[RETIRED]

Not sure what adjusting the tool rest would do. The tool must be horizontal, and at close to the center of the piece. If you lower the tool rest, does that imply you are suggesting taking an angled approach to the work - if so, don't do it :oo:

I must admit I take an unusual hold for the tool. I have a long handle and hold it half way along, then use my elbow (of the same arm) to ballance the end of the handle, whilst guiding the tip with my other hand. Hope that makes sense.

's probably right, as usual, sore musles.Neil. As long as the tool is pointing at the centre (at right angles to the timber) it does not matter where the rest is.

By dropping the rest and "aiming" the tool at the centre (in fact just below) your arm assumes a more natural position.

The only reason that I don't bother moving the rest is that it is set for my type of stance when using "real tools".:D

[Calm]

Vern and you are right - dropping the rest and the handle will keep the tool at the correct angle - My concern over this advice/thought is if beginners/learners/less experienced turners try this and then keep the tool level the consequences could be very scary.

Probably a better idea is to get a pallet to stand on or just sweep the shavings under your feet to get you higher off the floor.

Cheers

[tea lady]

Vern and you are right - dropping the rest and the handle will keep the tool at the correct angle - My concern over this advice/thought is if beginners/learners/less experienced turners try this and then keep the tool level the consequences could be very scary.

Cheers:no: Scraping to low isn't scary. Its scraping to high.:doh: That's when catches result in dig ins.

[rsser]

Zaccly.

[NeilS]

Vern - put a longer handle on mine and also use it with the bevel rubbing, so held in similar position to big gouges. Can't say I have noticed any extra muscles after a long session of roughing blanks (large, small or irregular).



FWIW - pic of my handle attached. Also use mine with the toolrest right down. Frank ground the heel of mine back (Pic 2) so I could rub the bevel while cutting. He reckoned my tool presentation was close to 50°.

.....

[joe greiner]

Vern didn't stipulate the exact circumstances of his mis-adventure, and Joe is certainly not clairvoyant. He just guessed that toolrest height is one of the variables (among many others) that affect comfort and effectiveness.:D

Cheers,
Joe

[hughie]

Vern didn't stipulate the exact circumstances of his mis-adventure, and Joe is certainly not clairvoyant. He just guessed that toolrest height is one of the variables (among many others) that affect comfort and effectiveness.:D





I have my lathes a bit higher than the norm and so it would have an effect on me as well. Although I don't normally rough out for such a extended time.

One of the aspects that does not appeal to me with this sort of tool is the need to keep cutting edge as close as possible to the tool rest at all time, or deal with forces that will occur as you move the pivot point to less favourable positions.

On roughing out it means allot of tool rest movement etc especially if it a big piece as indicated by Vern.

[bobsreturn2003]

if the problem is vibration try a fishing rod grip makes the tool soo easy to hold on to . otherwise a hardwood handle filled with lead shot also takes the pain away . if the lathe is too high try a few besser blocks ? a little pain should not stop us having fun :2tsup: