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View Full Version : Sexually degrading (WARNING - Contains nude photo's)



ubeaut
24th August 2004, 05:06 PM
The following pics were posted in the jokes forum. After having a complaint about them being "sexually degrading and not in the best interest of the BB" I have decided to pose the question to members.

Do you find the following pics sexually degrading?

Pic 1 Click here (http://www.ubeaut.biz/ocean.jpg) for enlargement
http://www.ubeaut.biz/oceanth.jpg
Pic 2 Click here (http://www.ubeaut.biz/ocean2.jpg) for enlargement
http://www.ubeaut.biz/ocean2th.jpg
Pic 3 Click here (http://www.ubeaut.biz/smilygls.jpg) for enlargement
http://www.ubeaut.biz/smilyglsth.jpg

Do you think these and pics like them are detrimental to the BB?

There are four sections for answers in the pole above. You may answer yes or no for each picture and the detrimental one.

I've already formed my opinion and have acted accordingly. I am interested in what others think and might have to say. Lets try and keep it sensible and out of the gutter please.


Cheers - Neil :)

Termite
24th August 2004, 05:29 PM
I'm certainly no prude but we must remember that there are ladies who view the BB. IMHO in the interest of all, lets keep our pics in our workshop (if you're allowed) you aught to see the poster of the bir. ahem, lady on the Harley that my wife bought me.
Kind regards
Termite
ps. lets face it, at my age a pic of a Jet Supersaw gets me drooling.

DaveInOz
24th August 2004, 05:36 PM
While I think these pics are fine, and funny, I fear opening a flood gate of soft girly pics. So I think a line has to be drawn that is unambiguous, all in or all out.
I think the action taken has been excelent, let those that wish to see them click through and do so, those that don't want to can refrain from clicking.

I'm going to hate myself later :rolleyes:

Christopha
24th August 2004, 05:53 PM
As the poster of two of the pics I would like to say that in the case of pic.1 I placed plenty of warning and if you still went there and were offended then you are a bloody idiot and probably look for offense wherever possible. In the case of pic.3, I didn't place a warning because the details of the possibly offensive "bits" are well and truly obscured by a couple of litres of black and yellow paint. Once again, if you are offended by that pic then you have a problem.

As for Sorens pic.2, I found that extremely offensive! MY GOD! A Fibreglass boat on a wood forum???? DISGUSTING!!!

himzol
24th August 2004, 06:07 PM
I wasn't sure as to how to answer this, apart from it not belonging on this BB.

In case people are wondering, I didn't find it offencive or funny, just a waste of cyber space.

Himzo.

Rocker
24th August 2004, 06:18 PM
It seems to me that at least some of these pictures break the forum rule that prohibits . Allowing them to be posted is liable to discourage the female members of the forum from participating in it. I think it would be a pity if they were to leave because of this. So I think the rule on should be strictly enforced. There are plenty of websites where can be found, if people want it. This forum is for woodworking; let's keep it that way.

Rocker

Christopha
24th August 2004, 06:33 PM
????????? You would have to be a bottle fed, analy retentive, small minded fool to consider No.1 or No.3 to be ! My wife is a very straight laced lady and she had a wee smile at both before I posted them, I would not have posted them if I thought anyone foolish enough to be offended. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Whilst this is a woodwork forum there are many views on many things which are discussed, (thank goodness that no-one has been silly enough to bring up politics or religion) and things usually stay remarkably cool. however, one of the most popular sections seems to be the Jokes forum and if it's compromised in this way then I think that a real shame and once again a case of a few loud loonies spoiling "IT" for the rest.......... :mad:
This is silly, it was a Flaming joke !!!!!!!!!!!

aussieglen
24th August 2004, 07:21 PM
I thought the photos were delightful but I regret I failed to see anything remotely funny about them. If it was meant to be a joke then I for one missed the point. This forum has demonstrated its propensity for very funny jokes and repartee and there seems to be little need for moving into the sexual area. Evidence shows that there plenty of other subject for jokes and funnies. If the human body has to be the topic of a joke then I would think that in a woodies forum with presumably mostly men then the 'ocker' body might be more appropriate.

gatiep
24th August 2004, 07:26 PM
I feel that the pictures themselves are not degrading, what does degrade them or almost any pic of the female body, is the beholders mind.

The first pic ( not necessary number 1, 2 or 3 ) that gets posted may be funny, thereafter it becomes monotonous and the posibility of posters trying to 'outdo' oneanother can become a problem. I sure have better and more constructive things to do and look at. I don't know what action Neil took, but my choice would be to keep this BB free of those type of pics as the BB has a rule, which I would interpret as no nudity.
They didn't offend me, however I surely wouldn't go to the trouble to open a post if I knew it contained those pics.........would rather look at a nice lathe!Then again I must say that I don't read novels or story books or watch soapies but have only ever read technical stuff and enjoy documentaries on TV. Maybe I'm the odd one out but hey, I'm happy in myself and frankly that is what matters to me.

PaulS
24th August 2004, 07:28 PM
Females have fought long and hard to be seen as more than just a piece of flesh that is drooled over. Now I wouldn't say that it is , but I do think that they sexually degrade women, I agree with rocker,there is plenty of places to go if you want to look at that stuff.

Wood Borer
24th August 2004, 07:33 PM
I consider myself broad minded and an admirer of the female form - like most blokes. I don't consider the pictures however I am mindful there are people with different views and values who also share this BB.

I visit this BB for information exchange about woodwork and to have a bit of fun with other woodworkers.

If the pictures turn away some good woodworkers from this BB whether they be prudish, narrow minded or any other label you can give them then the pictures should go or be hidden. The prime purpose of the BB is woodwork after all.

If we are not turning people away because of the pictures then let the pictures stay. It didn't cross my mind to leave the BB because of the pictures.

After reading this dribble after writing it , I realise Neil has virtually said the same thing. I agree with Neil's approach.

Bob Willson
24th August 2004, 07:43 PM
I find myself unable to disagree with Christopha. This is NOT . If you doubt it, I will post some links that ARE for .

I am interested in the term "sexually degrading". Who is it degrading? I don't feel any degradeder than before I saw them. My wife is an artist and thought that the posing of No 1 was an excellent juxtapositioning of foreground and background. Is it degrading women? I fail to see where that is taking place either. Throughtout history it has been the objective of women to make themselves more sexually attractive to men.

Therefore, I must conclude that it is the ugly people on this board who don't like this sort of beauty because they are precluded from its enjoyment both physcially and mentally. :D Great leap of deduction that. :)

Number three can be seen as a joke. Nothing more. NOTHING is visible.

Number two is ... hmmmm. Great shot whoever took it but it probably is excess to reqiurements for this board. Maybe a separate area altogether is needed. Any women who are offended by seeing pictures of other women should not buy any females magazines from now on. Many of the pictures in them are FAR more explicit than any shown here.

namtrak
24th August 2004, 08:13 PM
Maybe those blokes who are getting their knickers in a knot because some people are pointing out that the BB is ostensibly about woodwork and not about pics of sheilas, should take out their own digi cams and take some photos of themselves in their y-fronts and then post them up on the internet so we can all decide wether it is or prawn.

:)

Notice the complete lack of punctuation in my sentence?

Cheers
namtrak

Rocker
24th August 2004, 08:28 PM
Bob,

I have to agree that No. 1 was a beautiful artistic picture; I personally don't find any of the pictures offensive, but I just feel they are irrelevant to the purpose of this forum, and if they discourage women from participating in it, that is a good reason for excluding them. Perhaps we need the views of some of the female members.

I think this question is one of politeness rather than morality. When I was a public servant, I supported the ban on posting nude pictures on notice boards in government offices, not because i considered them immoral, but because I was aware that most female public servants found them offensive.

Rocker

DavidG
24th August 2004, 09:38 PM
Looked at them.
Went Uh Uh, closed and went to the next post.
Don't care, seen more on the beach.

Always amuses me why the female breast is not to be shown where the male breast can be.

Back in the Creatian {sp} times the display of the breast was the normal.
The Victorian era placed the mantle of "Shame" over all normal bodily function.

How long has it taken for Breast feeding in public to be considered acceptable.
The problem is in the mind of the viewer, not the female form.

echnidna
24th August 2004, 09:45 PM
If an employer posted these sort of pics in his workplace any female workers would have a good case for a sexual harassment action. So even though most men dont find them distasteful they ought not be permitted in a woodwork forum with female members.

scooter
24th August 2004, 10:50 PM
Found them funny & not in the least bit offensive BUT agree that female members/lurkers may, so on balance would prefer to not have them on the BB.(the posts that is!)

Christopha, don't let this cramp your style, enjoy your funny posts to the forum.

BTW, what ocean? What boat?.................cheers...........Sean

Zed
25th August 2004, 08:51 AM
everyone knows whos stirring, whos serious and whos easily offended, stoppers is just winding people up - which I applaud :D Not offensive to me but I see no replies from the ladies on the forum as yet, perhaps this poll should only be open to them and they can have the final say.

However - from a corporate perspective they are offensive - I hazard a guess that with the exception of photo 3 the other photographers intention was at the time of taking the photo to titillate and add a comment to juxtapose the obviousness of the anatomy in question. lets face it a ladies crotch is generally not the centrepeice of a photo unless it IS and a breast isnt either unless its a modigliani nude (in which case its clearly "art" and not "tittilation" (No pun intended).

there are pleny of web sites devoted to or racy humour (eg priceless.com etc) - if you want that sort of action it should be there you log onto. What I do find offensive is that no one has commented on my posted photos of mediocrity (especially the lockbox and the DC!!!) - now thats offensive!!! :D

kiwigeo
25th August 2004, 09:36 AM
It seems to me that at least some of these pictures break the forum rule that prohibits . Allowing them to be posted is liable to discourage the female members of the forum from participating in it. I think it would be a pity if they were to leave because of this. So I think the rule on should be strictly enforced. There are plenty of websites where can be found, if people want it. This forum is for woodworking; let's keep it that way.

Rocker
I agree with Rocker. The internet already runs slow because of the huge amounts of and spam getting crammed through it...why add to the problem.

kiwigeo
25th August 2004, 09:39 AM
If we enforce the no rule then Zed will have to take down the chimp pic on his avatar..........the monkey isnt wearing any clothes.

silentC
25th August 2004, 09:42 AM
I'd like to make a couple of points:

1. This particular section of the forum doesn't have to be woodwork-related
2. There was an explicit warning in the subject line of the thread
3. I've seen worse (better, depending how you look at it) on TV
4. Too much censorship is not in the spirit of the Internet

I agree we have to have guidelines. Apart from anything else, if we started posting real pornographic images here, UBeaut could run foul of the government's Internet censorship legislation. However, I think that most reasonable people know where the line is, even if they ocassionally cross it.

To say that we have to censor ourselves because we might drive members away opens a can of worms. Women are not the only 'minority' group out there. A lot of what is posted here could be found offensive to all sorts of people. A couple of countries in the Northern Hemisphere attract a lot of ribbing from the Australian members. Every time you do this, you are perpetuating a stereotype and someone could be offended. Let's not even start on religion. Most of us would be branded heathens.

I posted a very similiar joke here some time ago, except in mine the woman was wearing a shirt. Was that one any less 'degrading' because it contained no nudity? Some would say yes, some would say no. What do we mean by degrading? That it reinforces sexual stereotypes, perpetuating the 'woman as sex object' idea? Who posed for the photo? Did she feel degraded and, if so, why did she do it?

Have a look at the magazines on the shelves of your newsagent. Apart from the mags and the bikie mags, most magazines that men would be interested in are more likely to have a car or a boat or a fish on the front cover. The womens' mags all have photos of beautiful, sometimes scantily clad women, not just on the front cover, but all the way through. So who is perpetuating what?

At the end of the day, it's the forum moderators' call. Unfortunately for them, they are the ones who have to decide what is acceptable and what is not.

DaveInOz
25th August 2004, 11:26 AM
To clarify -
I don't find the pics degrading to me.
I don't belive they are
I don't believe it is relevent what is on the web or mags elsewhere, we are talking about this BB and how we want it look and feel.


However to play devils advocate ...
Consider a female that has struggled since her teen years to be accepted and respected as something other than a life support system for sex organs. Do you think the pic encourages the view that relegates the rest of her body and mind to being not worthy of notice or consideration, not only does it encourage it, it relys on it for its humour.

Don't knock people because you don't understand the way they feel, you will never know what shaped their view, and it is the height of arrogance to assume you know better.
Say how you feel, state your case, and leave it at that.


Christopha - you posted it very discreatly, good job. :) (but a link would have been better than the thumbnail ;) )

DavidW
25th August 2004, 11:47 AM
Putting aside all the deep and meaningful stuff I believe,

1. Its not .
2. It is entertaining.
3. Its not distasteful ( to me at least).
4. I am not offended.
5. It has no place on this BB, if I want at look at this sort of thing there are thousands of other places to go.

silentC
25th August 2004, 12:02 PM
I don't believe it is relevent what is on the web or mags elsewhere
It goes to the question of whether or not they are degrading. Whether they belong on this BB is a different question. The former is a matter of opinion, the latter is a matter of policy.

I don't think the issue is whether or not they are degrading to us, it's whether or not they are degrading to women in general. I think to say that they are is a generalisation. Some women do this for a living, so by making a big deal about it, aren't we degrading them? What about the fashion industry? Are models employed because of their minds? Some women will be offended by the pictures, the majority probably don't give a toss. That's speculation based on my experience, limited as it is.

I'll get the missus to do a straw poll at the golf club tomorrow.

DaveInOz
25th August 2004, 12:20 PM
It goes to the question of whether or not they are degrading.
I disagree (respectfully :) ) Whether or not a picture is degrading is purely an individual reaction to the picture. If there is worse about, or you've seen it a million times, you still find it degrading.

What I'm saying is that finding something degrading (or beautiful or any subjective emotion) is personal, we can answer for ourselves and no one else. To assume you can answer for someone else or another group, or indeed contend with their view is arogant.

PS this is not a personal go at anyone specificly, I just like getting to the philisophical side of these argumants :D

Alastair
25th August 2004, 12:28 PM
Some comments and a question.

Hardly . My 13 year old daughter responded by saying "Oh Dad!" and prodding me in the ribs, as did my wife. However they do not look for the evil in everything they see either.

Thumbnail or link? Go with the moderator here. No need to be in your face.

Suitable for this BB? Why do we have a "Jokes" and "Not related to WW"
section, if we are to slavishly stick only to WW? Why not ban anything without sawdust outright?

Why are all the complainers blokes? Surely if the girls were mortally offended we should have had a flood of abuse from them? I haven't seen anything from jackiew or gemmi, and they are not shy of a controversy. I think we are drowning in a flood of SNAG political correctness. I would be interested to hear whether the off-thread complaint was male or female. In addition, women who subscribe to a bloke oriented BB are likely to have a reasonably broad-minded attitude.

Finally with Christopha: It was a JOKE fer chrissakes. Let's have a laugh and move on, (but link it to keep the Mother Grundies happy.

Rant mode OFF!

Finally. Why does the total of "Yes" and "No" for the poll question not add up to 100%??

Alastair

silentC
25th August 2004, 12:32 PM
To assume you can answer for someone else or another group, or indeed contend with their view is arogant
Agreed but this is exactly what censorship does.

I just like getting to the philisophical side of these argumants
Me too.

DaveInOz
25th August 2004, 12:38 PM
Agreed but this is exactly what censorship does.



We were asked if we think they are degrading, not if we think someone else will find them so.
We were asked if we personaly think they belong, I assume with the objective of guiding the censors, if we all tell them how we feel they can draw their own conclusions, with out us muddying the waters with what we think others will feel.


We definately need to drink together and discuss some of the weighty issues of the world :).

silentC
25th August 2004, 12:42 PM
What about what we think others will think others will feel?

Is it beer o'clock yet?

:D

I know, get back to work....

DaveInOz
25th August 2004, 12:47 PM
:rolleyes: I suppose we should let the others have a say, seeing how we can't answer for them ;)

Christopha
25th August 2004, 12:55 PM
:( Don't know how to 'do' links.... can barely manage thumby things.... din't wanna cause strife, just wanted me mateses to have a liddle smile at no-ones expense, din't know we was s'rounded by p'liticly crect buggers.... woe is me! :( :( :( :( :( :( going off to beat meself wiv a stick, or is that Kinky too? :( :( :( :( :( :( :eek:

Termite
25th August 2004, 02:05 PM
You don't have to beat yourself, there's plenty that will line up to do it for you. Sincerely though, don't feel bad, you are not the first and certainly wont be the last person to do something with all the best intentions only to have the wheels fall off. :D :D :D :D Would you feel better if I gave you another RED, trouble is "SOMEONE" seems to be erasing them, thus completely destroying your hard earned reputation.
Kind regards
Termite

Grunt
25th August 2004, 02:18 PM
going off to beat meself wiv a stick, or is that Kinky too?

Post pictures. We'll see if that upsets the those who get upset.

DaveInOz
25th August 2004, 02:22 PM
going off to beat meself wiv a stick, or is that Kinky too?
Depends on the type of wood, what you used to shape it, what you finished it with , and how.

craigb
25th August 2004, 03:37 PM
Are the posts PC? - no

Did they bother me? - no

Were they marked with a warning? - yes

Are they ? - are you serious?

Are they appropriate to the BB? - probably not

Is it worth getting worked up about? - absolutely not

Did I vote? - nuh

Christopha, please don't stop stirring the possum :)

Craig

Christopha
25th August 2004, 04:20 PM
I hedded down the street to pick a good stick and what did I see!!!!

ernknot
25th August 2004, 06:06 PM
Stick to woodwork.

Kev Y.
26th August 2004, 06:03 AM
Personally I dont find any of then offensive, however IF I had a female type man with me viewing these posts I would have some feelings of embarasment.

as for them being !!! youv'e got to be joking, go to any mechanics workshop and look at the calendars he has on the wall, (same as the ones in christophas dads part of the workshop)

Some of the female members may be offended, dont remember seeing a response from any yet, but I feel that they should know us here by now and realise the male persons here (was going to say members, but thought of the obvious consquenses for that!) would not intentionally set out to insult or offend.

I also feel that providing the poster places a warning, let the viewer be warned, as long as they stay tasetful, and common sense prevails.

[QUOTE=Christopha]going off to beat meself wiv a stick, or is that Kinky too? QUOTE]

Chris, its only kinky if you take pics and post them here! :rolleyes:

My $0.02 worth.

Kev ;) :rolleyes: :cool:

Kev Y.
26th August 2004, 06:27 AM
Still browsing and found this:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=11089

The difference between the pics and this is??

NONE, pics are ART, THIS IS A JOKE!!!

however I am sure that there are some who would find that post offensive if it wasn't posted by a woman!

Kev ;) :rolleyes: :cool:

Rowan
26th August 2004, 02:02 PM
simply put, I dont find them offensive.

However I dont see the need for them on the board, maybe if people want them here a seperate category could be made??

gemi_babe
27th August 2004, 11:02 PM
Ok I'm a girl, and I don't find any of the pic's sexist or degrading to women at all, but that is MHO. Partly cause I am ok with my sexuality and I don't class them as .

I really appreciate those that think these types of pic's shouldn't be posted in respect for women. But for me, I am thickskinned, head strong and nothing too much bothers me.

Thanks,

I hope MHO has helped some.

PS.... Did ya's like my use of Abbreviations HA HA HA :p

outback
27th August 2004, 11:44 PM
VCIYUOAG,KG

Or in long hand,
Very clever in your use of abbreviations Gemi, keep going. :p :p

jackiew
31st August 2004, 10:35 AM
only just got to see this poll, been on holiday(interesting weather they have in NZ :eek: ) hence no earlier reply!

As I sit here I've got my sister's christmas present to me an "original british firefighter calendar" up by my desk ( located so that it doesn't cause huge offence to my male colleagues ).

From a personal perspective the first two pictures are obviously meant to titillate ( hence the captions ). Hopefully the models got paid for it - and undoubtedly they had a totally boring time posing for the pics("just move your boob two mm to the left irene, hold it hold it, stop moving about ....etc etc .) They aren't pictures that I personally would look at for enjoyment. The third picture looks like three women with less than perfect figures who are enjoying themselves and made me smile.

As someone who has in the past had complete strangers comment on the size of my backside or tell me that they think I'm ugly or that I should smile more etc etc and watched a close family member battling with Annorexia ( and fortunately win ) I'm only too well aware that we live in a society where women's looks are frequently more important than their personalities.

The pictures didn't leave me reaching for the smelling salts but if I want to look at a naked woman I just take my kit off and stand in front of a mirror....I would personally prefer not to have such pictures on the bulletin board or at least have them in a location where I don't have to waste my time opening something which is of no interest to me.

I suspect that if i was one of the many women who've had a breast or two removed due to cancer then I would be less than happy about stumbling over the first picture without any kind of warning.

my 10c.

Ankali
31st August 2004, 11:41 AM
As one of the female members, (more lurking than posting!), I don't find find the pictures degrading, unnecessary maybe but not degrading. I don't think that pics like should be banned from the BB as long as it is clear what is in the post.

I'll just ignore them if I'm not in mood to view. There's much more interesting topics to browse through.

Ankali

MarkV
31st August 2004, 12:15 PM
Personally I don't find them offensive because I can't see em. Hmm it looks like they have been deleted. Also why is the 3rd page of this post just about identical to the 1st??:confused:

Ben from Vic.
31st August 2004, 04:28 PM
Personally I don't find them offensive because I can't see em. Hmm it looks like they have been deleted. Also why is the 3rd page of this post just about identical to the 1st??:confused:


I suggest your having computer problems Mark.

I can view the pics, and the 3rd pages is obviously different from the first.


Ben.

outback
31st August 2004, 06:50 PM
Mark, mate. how many times have ya been told, STOP IT or you'll go blind! :D

Dusty
31st August 2004, 08:37 PM
Let's see now...

This is a woodworking site, right?! Which means most of us enjoy mucking around with wood, right?!

So, what happens if you haven't got wood to muck around with?

Easy answer....Check out the hot babes that have been thoughtfully provided, and with a bit of luck and a shot of Viagra, you'll have all the wood your gonna need to enjoy yourself with.

So I vote 'em in.

Seriously, any woman, or man, who has issues with these particular photos might need to have a bit of a long look at themselves. And lighten up. :(