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jefferson
18th Jan 2010, 09:24 PM
Sad but true, but the Little Grasshopper gave his first real lesson today. :rolleyes: And I checked with my two Masters afterwards just to be sure I'd done the right things..... Apparently so. :2tsup:

Priority no. 1 was making sure Yvonne (a very, very nice lady), could use the roughing gouge on spindle work and do the "tango". Chisel fixed hard and low to the thigh, shifting weight left to right (or vice versa)..... Chisel first on the rest, engage the bevel etc..... Lift then cut....

We are getting there. I even pushed her hips and torso (instruction purposes only, not flirting!) to get the point across. It's coming along nicely.

I had other chores supervising son Dan and Indigo Valley (still yet to post) milling some redgum boards for my kitchen tops......

And it was such a pleasure to return to see Yvonne getting the curlies going. And free-lancing a little with some coves..... :oo:

Anyway, nice to give something back for a change.

I've lent Yvonne a few chisels. She bought a Hamlet "kit" of 4 chisels on special..... :(

I've added some choices. A thin parting tool. Essential. (The kit one was maybe 6mm).

A 3/4 skew. (The kit one was 1/2 inch, dangerous IMHO for beginners for planing cuts)

2 spindle gouges, one fingernail grind, the other a European grind just to give her the options. No scapers, only spindle work at this stage.

What else? Dunno. The sharpening job was a little hurried, but most were "Tormek sharp". That is, get the band aids ready. What a great marketing ploy, band aids with your new sharpening system. :D

Best thing is I lent my EVS VL100 to Yvonne some time back and she now has the same lathe at home. Just got to get the centre heights exactly the same and we are away. :2tsup::2tsup:

I may need some help from you guys (the locals are helping anyway).

Another Chapter for the Top 100 Turning Tips. (Now set aside until the renos are done). Sorry.

Yvonne has 4 chisels, two almost useless. A 6mm parting tool and a 6mm spindle gouge in particular. The 3/4 round rougher is OK, the 1/2 inch skew less so.

I'm suggesting as additions:

- a 2-3mm parting tool
- a detail gouge for fine work and hollowing boxes
- a 10 or 12 mm bowl gouge.

Not sure about what scraper. Bowls and platters in a month or three.

Good / bad advice??????

tea lady
18th Jan 2010, 11:53 PM
Which tools? I don't think they are useless. (The 6mm spindle and the 1/2 " skew. ) Maybe just for later. :shrug: 6 mm parting tool is good cos you know that it measures that and you can cut the dovetail knowing its about right to go into a chuck. Thinner parting tools are good for parting off box lids where you don't want to loose much grain so it still kinda matches. Bigger parting tool is also better if you are a way off the tool rest. And also turning a spindle to size. (You turn one bit to size with parting tool, then take the rest down to that measurement with appropriate spindle gouge or skew. ) 6mm spindle gouges racked back like Ken has 'em make pretty good detail gouge.

Other tools? Big round nosed scraper if Yvonne wants to do bowls or platters. To smooth out the curve. :shrug: But if Yvonne's doing a lot of tuning at your place she can work out what she keeps using out of your tool box, then get that.:cool:

Say hello to Yvonne for me. I hope she doesn't mind that her pic is on the web. :C:U

Oh! And I hollow end grain boxes with a spindle gouge. :shrug: The sides just aren't as long, but it works.

artme
19th Jan 2010, 04:29 AM
That must be a variation of the Argentinian tango we saw in Buenos Aires.:D:D:p:p

woodwork wally
20th Jan 2010, 06:37 PM
Which tools? I don't think they are useless. (The 6mm spindle and the 1/2 " skew. ) Maybe just for later. :shrug: 6 mm parting tool is good cos you know that it measures that and you can cut the dovetail knowing its about right to go into a chuck. Thinner parting tools are good for parting off box lids where you don't want to loose much grain so it still kinda matches. Bigger parting tool is also better if you are a way off the tool rest. And also turning a spindle to size. (You turn one bit to size with parting tool, then take the rest down to that measurement with appropriate spindle gouge or skew. ) 6mm spindle gouges racked back like Ken has 'em make pretty good detail gouge.

Other tools? Big round nosed scraper if Yvonne wants to do bowls or platters. To smooth out the curve. :shrug: But if Yvonne's doing a lot of tuning at your place she can work out what she keeps using out of your tool box, then get that.:cool:

Say hello to Yvonne for me. I hope she doesn't mind that her pic is on the web. :C:U

Oh! And I hollow end grain boxes with a spindle gouge. :shrug: The sides just aren't as long, but it works.

A.M. stole the words right outa my keyboard NO such thing as usless in that list Her suggestions are spot on :2tsup::2tsup::D cheers wwwally

NeilS
21st Jan 2010, 10:04 AM
6 mm parting tool is good....



....and makes a good mini-bedan.

.....

jefferson
21st Jan 2010, 08:12 PM
Nah.... I gotta bite. :rolleyes:

If you lot think that a 6mm parting tool and 6mm spindle gouge are best for beginners out of 4 "starter" tools.... you gotta problem.

Please check other threads.

5 or 6 "necessary" tools, none of the above included.

And from a Grasshopper with over 60 + chisels who tries to turn everyday, the two listed above are not on the most wanted list.

I've discussed this separately with a few. Give me a 25mm skew, a 12mm bowl gouge and we are a away. Accepted, some wastage with no parting tool.

RETIRED
21st Jan 2010, 09:22 PM
The tools included in that set are ideal for small work,
Woodturning 5 Piece Boxed Set from Hamlet Craft Tools of Sheffield (http://www.hamletcrafttools.co.uk/5pc.html) but not what I would recommend.

By the same token, given the size of the lathe and what she is doing at the moment it is not a bad choice.

It depends on the work you do.

A 1/16th parting tool which Ken uses is absolutely useless to me as would be the 8mm parting tool I use would be useless to Ken.

The other reason for using them is that she has them.

Up until recently if you wanted a parting tool smaller than 3mm you had to make it yourself.

She can add the others later and will use them better after using the smaller ones.

Remember how many options that Ken, I and others have shown you to do the same task.

Don't fall into the trap that your way is the only way when showing others how to turn.

tea lady
21st Jan 2010, 09:53 PM
:shrug: If you were buying them individually you might have chosen different ones, but if she has them they can be used.

Liek neilS, I also quite like a big parting tool as a kinda fat skew bedan type tool.:cool: But I have to be at 's to use his. :saddest: (Not that I mind being at his place.:C:rolleyes: ) Anyone got an 8mm parting tool they don't want? :D

jefferson
21st Jan 2010, 10:46 PM
and Co,

I mean no disrespect when I humbly suggest that a 12mm skew, a 6mm parting tool and a 6mm spindle gouge are not ideal for a "starter" set for a new turner. (The rougher is fine.)

IMHO:

- the 12mm skew is too short first up for beginners ie the long point can dig in, especially for planing cuts and rolling beads etc. (And for ladies that cuss and curse with a full 25mm skew :D when turning some table legs!)

- who parts (honestly) with a 1/4 inch tool? (I have a few parting tools and that is not my preferred weapon).

- a 12mm / 1/2 inch spindle gouge (fingernail grind, Euro etc, take your pick) is much more useful first up for a learner than a tiny 6mm spindle gouge.

I will argue long and hard on this one. Novice that I am.

A very, very few learner turners can pick any chisel up and make them talk.

Beginners need safe options.

Clearance on the long point on a skew. 12mm v. 25mm.

Room to roll beads too (in preference) with a 12mm gouge instead of a weak, tiny 6mm version.

My thinking is that learners need options. Does a 12mm fingernail grind work for you or not? If not, try a Euro grind..... Or a 25mm skew....

As I have already said, the preferred "starter set" has been subject to some discussion previously. I think we all agreed that the "starter" sets were not ideal.

As a beginner, I think I am in a better position that most other learners to offer an opinion.

There may be ten or twenty ways to skin the cat. All I am suggesting is that newbies like me and others should not be playing with scalpels when a sharp large knife will do.

tea lady
22nd Jan 2010, 12:01 AM
:shrug: Maybe its a starter kit for pen turners?

(I part with a 6 mm parting tool cos that is what I've got.:C Its even a dreaded diamond parting tool.:doh: )

NeilS
22nd Jan 2010, 11:10 AM
OK, here is just one suggested minimal starter tool kit.

The person who bought my old Woodfast didn't have any turning tools to begin with, so I suggested the following 4 tool starter kit. He indicated that he had turned bowls many years ago at high school and that was what he was most likely to start again on. Spindle turning was not high on his priorities. The criteria I used to select the 4 minimum tools were, no redundancy when he adds to the kit, quality tools that won't have to be replaced because of inferior quality, lowest possible entry level cost for reasonable quality, and no impossible gaps for what he wanted to do.

This is what I suggested:

Robert Sorby 3/8" Fingernail Bowl Gouge - $ 89.30 (Your primary bowl tool, so needs to be a good one. Comes with a handle, so extra cost, but will get you going.)
http://www.cws.au.com/shop/item/robert-sorby-38-fingernail-bowl-gouge (http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107146949&product_id=1107466402)

(http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107146949&product_id=1107466402)
P&N Scraper 30x8mm Unhandled, square end - $ 74.85 (You will grind it to a shape that will suit yourself)
http://www.cws.au.com/shop/item/scraper-30x8mm-unhandled (http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107144963&product_id=1107452742)

(http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107144963&product_id=1107452742)
P&N Skew Chisel 12 x 6mm - unhandled - $ 54.45 (Use this to make recesses for the chuck to grip and any fine detail like incised lines. Is also the primary tool for spindle work if you are doing any of that and will be suitable for small work.)
http://www.cws.au.com/shop/item/skew-chisel-12x6mm-unhandled (http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107144964&product_id=1107452875)

(http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107144964&product_id=1107452875)
Parting off tool 3 x 12mm - unhandled. $ 49.35 (You could get away with not having to buy this one if you are only going to be doing bowl work as it is primarily used to part off spindle work, but its a handy tool for lots of other small tasks like forming the recess on the foot of a bowl before final shaping with the skew, and eventually you will need one at some stage. As I am suggesting that you buy mainly unhandled tools and make your own handles then a parting tool is going to get immediate use anyways... https://mail.google.com/mail/e/gtalk/328 ).
http://www.cws.au.com/shop/item/parting-off-tool-3x12mm-unhandled (http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107144961&product_id=1107453005)
If it had been a 6 tool kit or he was going to be doing more spindle work I would have suggested a different combination (e.g. larger bowl gouge for bowl work or larger skew and roughing and spindle gouges for spindle work), but that was my best suggestion for a 4 tool starter kit for this person.


.....

Skew ChiDAMN!!
22nd Jan 2010, 04:09 PM
What said.

For a beginner wanting to do Cindy Drozda type work, well... those tools are about right.

Not everyone wants to do bowls or telephone poles.


- who parts (honestly) with a 1/4 inch tool? (I have a few parting tools and that is not my preferred weapon).

I do! :p

NeilS
23rd Jan 2010, 12:07 PM
- who parts (honestly) with a 1/4 inch tool?


.

Never had anything smaller up until 6 months ago. Eventually got around to making up a 2mm one, but have only used it once or twice since then. Could have probably got away with just parting off with a small skew as I have tended to do with small spindle work in the past. Anyway, it's there now if I ever need it.

As TL has pointed out, lidded boxes where you don't want to lose too much grain match between the body and lid is one application where I'm most likely to use a smaller parting tool.

On the other hand, my 1/4" gets used constantly...:U

.....