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RETIRED
26th Jun 2010, 02:44 PM
As it has come up in some other threads I thought I would start another thread on this subject.

It has been stated in another thread that it is a fact that all woodturners don't use Fluoros.

Hi Ern,
It is a well known fact amongst Woodturners that you don't use Fluoro's for that very reason.
If you buy 120W Flood lights, & they don't cost that much to run, they are better for the Eyes, & a better light to see your work with.
I'm not to sure but they have a special rating on the box as to the using Watts eg. 80W.?
Regards,
issatree.I don't know of any other woodturners (and I know a lot) that DON"T use fluoros and that includes my shed.

We use other lights sometimes to throw light into a specific area but these are generally low energy flouros as well.

We sometimes use incandescent floods for demos but the high wattage fluoros do a better job.

On the odd occasion that we do have strobing (and it is very rare) a slight adjustment of speed generally eliminates it.

Our lights are all double Fluoros of the Daylight sort by NEC.

The walls and ceiling are all painted white and this helps with light transference immensely.

A search on Google under "workshop lighting" gives a lot of hits and they all reccommend Flouros

Big Shed
26th Jun 2010, 02:58 PM
Same here , also have a 36W fluoro mounted about 3 ft above my metal lathe. Have never experienced this "strobing".

Jim Carroll
26th Jun 2010, 03:01 PM
All my lighting is fluros with a couple of spot lights for direct lighting.

Never had any problem with strobing.

Would like to know what others were doing when the strobing occured.

I think and I may be wrong but the strobing may have been caused in the early days of the fluro lights when the efficiency of the ballast and starter were not so good.

With the progress in this area the efficiency of the light is such that it does not really occur any more

steck
26th Jun 2010, 03:31 PM
I have 4 banks of double fluoros in my shed with a small Halogen spot mounted on the lathe.
Haven't had any trouble with strobing other than some green and purple colors appearing very occasionally, and I am pretty sure that comes from the halogen globe.

Here's a couple of quotes I found by Googling: "This safety problem is readily solved by the replacement of old style ballasts with electronic ballasts." Fluorescent lights have less adverse effects when mixed with daylight or ordinary incandescent light. Some of the modern fluorescent lights with built-in electronic ballasts are supposedly better in this regard. The light quality is still poor, but the line current flicker is eliminated."

Rhys_holland
26th Jun 2010, 04:02 PM
=Jim Carroll;1171939
Would like to know what others were doing when the strobing occured.

I think and I may be wrong but the strobing may have been caused in the early days of the fluro lights when the efficiency of the ballast and starter were not so good.


strobing occours because fluros flash at 50 htz(times per second) if the lathe is spinning at the same speed or a multiple of it can look like the peice is stationary it can be fixed in double fluros by putting a capacitor on only one of the ballastst whick makes the lights flash at different times, most sparkies can do this for you at a cheap price or you can buy a 50c capaciter and work it out yourself

hughie
26th Jun 2010, 05:01 PM
]strobing occurs because fluros flash at 50 htz(times per second) if the lathe is spinning at the same speed or a multiple of it can look like the piece is stationary it can be fixed in double fluros by putting a capacitor on only one of the ballasts which makes the lights flash at different times, most sparkies can do this for you at a cheap price or you can buy a 50c capacitor and work it out yourself
That pretty well sums it up.
I use flouros above my lathes double tube 4 footers. With a incandescent light on one of those super flexible stands at the headstock and incandescent spotlight 150watt pointing up from the tail stock for deep hollowing.
Flouros as general shed lighting as well and a small 6watt LED night light left on permanently for night entry. As I can be a bit messy at times :U and its helps the grandchildren navigate around as well.

EX's Timber
26th Jun 2010, 05:04 PM
Both my sheds have banks of Fluros, even have a couple of mini fluros as well, above the lathe and have never experienced strobing of any sort.

NeilS
26th Jun 2010, 05:31 PM
When I built my current workshop 30yrs ago was advised against fluros so installed incandescent lights.

Now that I have replaced all the old incandescent bulbs with the new energy efficient bulbs I now have all fluros, in effect. Haven't noticed any strobing.

.....

Pat
26th Jun 2010, 05:36 PM
My shed has 3 banks of double fluros, a magnetic based lamp for the lathe and the walls are white malemine and two skylights. During the day I don't need any artificial lighting.

I have experienced the strobe effect, in the old shed, a single batten fluro. Recognised what was happening, turned the lathe of and replaced the single with a double bank of fluro.

mick61
26th Jun 2010, 09:29 PM
G`day I use flouros and a spotty no strobe problems but have never really been happy with lighting for lathe. For a spot light what is the best you have used?
Mick:D

rsser
26th Jun 2010, 09:39 PM
Mick, I have an angle-able desk lamp that sits on the headstock and reaches a decent way. Also a Halogen spot on mag base that hangs off the box air scrubber overhead and shines into semi-enclosed forms. Finally I recently added a 500w paraflood but it overheats the right ear :rolleyes:

Wongdai
26th Jun 2010, 09:41 PM
Candles for me. Only trouble is that the air from the rapidly spinning timber sometimes blows them out.

Big Shed
26th Jun 2010, 10:03 PM
Picked up a couple of these (http://common.csnstores.com/common/products/IT/IT1835_l.jpg) in a garage sale, glued some rare earth magnets to the bottom, sits on the headstock of my wood lathe. Very stable, telescopic so you cab position it where you need the most light.

Also have one for the metal lathe, but don't use it as often as I have a 4ft fluoro hanging 3ft above it.

NeilS
26th Jun 2010, 10:18 PM
For a spot light what is the best you have used?
Mick:D

Planet studio lamp (http://www.thepriceguide.com.au/index.cfm/item/15772-red-planet-studio-or-desk-lamp-by-planet-products-with-an-extend/). Not sure if they are available any more. Screw mine to the headstock so it swivels with the headstock. From there it will reach around the largest platters I turn and into the deepest hollow forms, although I prefer to attach a LED light to my deep hollowing tools for that.

.....

RETIRED
26th Jun 2010, 10:38 PM
Planet studio lamp (http://www.thepriceguide.com.au/index.cfm/item/15772-red-planet-studio-or-desk-lamp-by-planet-products-with-an-extend/). Not sure if they are available any more. Screw mine to the headstock so it swivels with the headstock. From there it will reach around the largest platters I turn and into the deepest hollow forms, although I prefer to attach a LED light to my deep hollowing tools for that.

.....When will we see chiselcam Neil?:D

Sturdee
26th Jun 2010, 10:56 PM
G`day I use flouros and a spotty no strobe problems but have never really been happy with lighting for lathe. For a spot light what is the best you have used?
Mick:D

Mick, as well as fluros overhead I have two spots (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f8/125492d1262326077-sturdee-s-turning-workshop-turning-a001.jpg) (one on either side) switchable from the front of the lathe.

They are fixed to homemade wooden banjos so they can be moved along or switched around as needed.


Peter.

mick61
26th Jun 2010, 11:03 PM
That`s a nice set up you have there Peter. Personally I am not a fan of those particular lights I have had one of those fall onto the piece while working :oo::doh:It went straight in the bin.
Mick :D

Sturdee
26th Jun 2010, 11:13 PM
Thanks Mick, there have been a few more improvements in my turning area since then, as usage shows up inadequacies.

I suppose I should do an update but I haven't had much time, to busy turning.

Peter.

Rifleman1776
27th Jun 2010, 12:18 AM
I use flouros with no problem. No strobing. I am in a basement-like environment, no outside light helping. Nothing wrong with flouros in my experience. I have been using with my lathe for over seven years.

NeilS
27th Jun 2010, 11:25 AM
When will we see chiselcam Neil?:D

Now that's an idea...:U

.....

Cliff Rogers
27th Jun 2010, 11:40 AM
I use flouros for my general lighting & a mixture High Bays & side spots for brighter light over/around my lathe.
I also have one of the adjustable desk lamps mounted at the end of the lathe that can be moved around & aimed where I want it.
I have one of those 100W pale blue Craft bulbs that you can get from Spotlight on my big lathe but I use one of the 23W low energy bulbs on my little lathe & I have never noticed any strobe effect from it.

issatree
27th Jun 2010, 12:15 PM
Hi All,
My reason for Saying " Don't use Fluoro's for Lathe work " comes from My Optician.
Only for Him, I would never have been able to Turn & I don't need Magnification on my Small Work.

My Left Lens is 3/8in. thick. I'm told I should have had Glasses when I was 5-6 yrs. old, but nobody picked up that I had bad Eyesight.
I given Glasses when I was 19.

I would suggest, that those of you who use this kind of Lighting, go ask YOUR Optician, & see what they say.

Most of you, like me, wear Glasses these days, so when you go back, ASK them.

I am only trying to help not hinder.

Regards,
issatree.
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Ed Reiss
27th Jun 2010, 12:29 PM
back in the 60's we experienced strobing and didn't even use fluros. Whoops...wrong subject :doh:

hughie
27th Jun 2010, 04:51 PM
back in the 60's we experienced strobing and didn't even use fluros. Whoops...wrong subject :doh:

lucy in the sky with diamonds.............. :U nuf sed

wheelinround
27th Jun 2010, 05:13 PM
Picked up a couple of these (http://common.csnstores.com/common/products/IT/IT1835_l.jpg) in a garage sale, glued some rare earth magnets to the bottom, sits on the headstock of my wood lathe. Very stable, telescopic so you cab position it where you need the most light.

Also have one for the metal lathe, but don't use it as often as I have a 4ft fluoro hanging 3ft above it.

I was at a demo recently Fred where a fellow had a Jet Mini sitting on top of the head stock was a 10oz speaker magnet I asked why he had it there, he used similar to your lamp it was left there as he was out doors so no lamp. I said without turning the lathe off remove the magnet but listen and watch. He did :o it increased RPM he put it back it slowed down. Magnet was put into tool box.

Sawdust Maker
27th Jun 2010, 09:22 PM
Interesting

I don't use any magnets near the headstock as I don't know how they might upset the DVR

Big Shed
27th Jun 2010, 09:50 PM
I probably would be a bit reluctant to use a 10oz magnet on my headstock, but 3 10mm rare earth magnets I don't see any problem with.

In fact I did a bit of experimenting earlier tonight and watched the digital display with and without the lamp/magnet combo. Didn't even vary 1RPM at any speed setting.

Mind you the headstock is a very thick cast iron affair, the electronics are mounted outside at the rear of the headstock and the motor is to the left of the headstock.

Last year I bought a digital indicator and mounted it on quite a strong magnet (from CDCO), the supplier almost had pups but after nearly a year it is working as advertised. Rather handy to have an indicator on a magnet, you can mount it anywhere where there is metal eg on the tailstock or on the bed of the metal lathe. Don't use it much now that I have a fully fledged DRO setup.

powderpost
27th Jun 2010, 09:52 PM
In theory strobing is "possible". I have used a single flouro tube over my lathe for probably 30 years. For the past 20 years I have used the same old flouro (with changes in the tube and starter) on a variable speed lathe that ranges from 0 to about 2500 rpm. I can get a slight effect similar to cart wheels going backwards and forwards on TV, but I can not get the job to "stand still". I think this is one of those urban myths that come up from time to time.
Jim

Harry72
27th Jun 2010, 10:00 PM
Cant say I've had any problems never used incandescent lighting on the lathe, just a couple bed lamps with 23w cfl's and 1 set of the main shed lights.

johngi
28th Jun 2010, 12:03 AM
In theory strobing is "possible". I have used a single flouro tube over my lathe for probably 30 years. For the past 20 years I have used the same old flouro (with changes in the tube and starter) on a variable speed lathe that ranges from 0 to about 2500 rpm. I can get a slight effect similar to cart wheels going backwards and forwards on TV, but I can not get the job to "stand still". I think this is one of those urban myths that come up from time to time.
Jim

The strobe effect is strongest at the fundamentanl frequency of rotation. With Australian power this is 50 Htz or in the case of a cutting tool 50 rpm, the floro is flashing and the tool is rotating at the same velocity, the rotation will appear to stop.

As the two speeds change the stobe effect will reduce, ie the tool will appear to run backwards as the two functions, flash/rpm, move appart. A further change of the flash/rpm configuration will bring the function to the second harmonic of 50 Hzt, 100 Htz. and the tool will seem to stop because the flash/rotation are in phase again. Generaly to see the strobe effect at multiples of 50 Htz. eg 2,500 RPM is a fairly sensative setting because 2,500/50= 50:1 ratio of Phase alignment.

There is one area that bothers me with the use of floros and that is on switch off. As the cutting tool slows down always mental check not to go anywhwere near the tool cutter, even poke it with a stick first not a finger.

John Giles

Touchwood
28th Jun 2010, 02:51 PM
An electrian gave me some surplus to requirement fluros and made the point of saying don't put it above the lathe due to the strobing mentioned - I remember making the comment that the noise is a bit of a give away that the lathe is on!!! I did put it above the lathe :C (I'm bad) and have had no trouble and never seen evidence of strobing!

JD

Old Sparkie
28th Jun 2010, 04:44 PM
All my lighting is fluros with a couple of spot lights for direct lighting.


I think and I may be wrong but the strobing may have been caused in the early days of the fluro lights when the efficiency of the ballast and starter were not so good.

With the progress in this area the efficiency of the light is such that it does not really occur any more


G’day,
As an electrician we wore taught never to put florescent or high discharge lighting over rotating machinery except for general lighting and to use incandescent as the work light due to the 50 cycle strobing effect, however that was about 50 years ago and lighting has made quite a few advancers since then, so as a backup I have just consulted with a Lighting Engineer of good standing and a long time friend who confirms my thoughts :2tsup: that modern florescent with electronic ballasts are no longer a problem (so Jim is correct but old stories never die), however high discharge lamps could still be detrimental. I have fluorescent general lighting plus 3x150W incandescent spots (hot, hot:C) but I am about to change the spots to the latest technology because of the heat generated If they strobe I can use them elsewhere but shuld be OK. I will let you know how they go.
Cheers, Les.

Cliff Rogers
28th Jun 2010, 05:57 PM
Philips have a 'look-a-like' replacement for the 150W bulbs used in the porta flood lamps.
They are a 23W low energy sealed in a good solid glass housing.
They are available in Cool Daylight & Warm White.
The Warm White ones look very much like the old 150W floods (Some people call the spots but there are a very wide spot.)

powderpost
28th Jun 2010, 10:28 PM
Tried again tonight for an hour, could not get the job to "stand still"
Jim

Grumpy John
28th Jun 2010, 10:50 PM
As an apprentice fitter and turner at GM Fishermans Bend I once asked the toolrrom foreman why there were two different types of lights placed next to each other throughout the toolroom and machine shop. I was told that they operated on two differend frequencies and because of that the "cartwheel" effect was cancelled as no matter what RPM a tool/lathe chuck etc. was running the different frequencies of the lights cancelled each other out. I can onlt say that I have seen the "cartwheel" effect in many machine shops, but I don't ever remember seing it during my 15 years at GM.

Allen Neighbors
29th Jun 2010, 06:42 AM
Yeah.... I'm one of the older types... I have quite a few older fluoro lights throughout my shop (not enough, either) and I also have a few newer ones, and some incandescent lights to really see with. I have seen the strobing effect a few times; the cartwheeling type... and if I remember right that is because I didn't have the little incandescent spots on at the time. It don't matter to me, though, either way... I'm still stupid enough to stick my hand in the way and get the knuckles knocked by a spinning handle or something... ::eek: :D

Barry_White
29th Jun 2010, 06:38 PM
I have posted this before on an earlier thread on strobing effect. When I was in the army with the Royal Australian Electrical & Mechanical Engineers unit a Technical Bulletin was posted on strobing and the bulletin stated that Single florescents should not be used in workshops around spinning machinery because they would cause strobing.

The bulletin stated that double floros should be used because they would cancel the strobing effect.

Now I don't know if this is fact or not but please read my disclaimer at the bottom of my post.