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himzol
5th October 2004, 09:28 PM
Ok Folks,

I would like some advice on outdoor furniture, Basicaly I'm doing some cutting for an outdoor table and before I go all out I need to get some advice.
The table top will have to be a panel type arrangment due to the length constraints of the timber being used (1200mm pallet lengths).

Question 1. Can this be glued using something like titebond III (it says it's water proof - sorta), or should I use screws to secure the lot together?

Question 2. Can the same be done for the frame or should I use knock down fittings?

regards,

Himzo.

Wood Borer
5th October 2004, 09:35 PM
A lot of effort but satisfying if you have the time and patience is to use Japanese type joinery. No glue or screws, just dovetails and locking mortise and tenons held together with wedges etc.

It doesn't have to be complex stuff but certainly sound and something to be proud of when it is finished.

himzol
5th October 2004, 09:41 PM
A lot of effort but satisfying if you have the time and patience is to use Japanese type joinery. No glue or screws, just dovetails and locking mortise and tenons held together with wedges etc


Ummm, I can understand how this would work on the frame and have already decided to give it a go, hell the timber didn't cost anything so all I will be losing is time. How would it work for the table top? Is there a web site or book I can have a look at to see some examples?

Himzo.

Wood Borer
5th October 2004, 10:15 PM
I have a good book at home but in my own words here is how you can do the top. It involves sliding dovetails (tapered ones if you want the best results but parallel ones will do nicely).

Cut the planks for the top a bit longer than what you need and match them etc.

Clamp them down tightly side by side in their final position and using a straight edge, route at least 2 grooves less than half the thickness of the planks. the grooves might be 25 mm wide. These grooves will be on the underside of the top and across the grain.

Using a dovetail bit in your router, dovetail the edges of the grooves so each groove is now one big dovetail going across the underside of the top.

Carefully measure the dimensions of the across grain dovetails and make matching staves that fit tightly in the across grain dovetail. Make the staves slightly longer than the width of the top.

You can make these staves using your dovetail routing bit or hand plane the staves. They should be a tight fit in the across grain dovetail groove. You will need to knock them in with a hammer. This damages the the ends of the staves but as you cut them a bit longer, you can cut the ends of the the staves off when you have finished.

After knocking in several of these staves, the clamps hold the top can be released and the top will be held tightly in place. Some people will secure the centre of the staves with a screw or a wedge to stop it from rattling out if it is a bit loose. It will tighten up in once the top absorbs a bit of moisture.

If you want to taper the staves, alternate the tapering. Tapered sliding dovetails make the table top very secure and if they become loose, you can tap them in a bit further to tighten the top again.

This is a method used in Europe centuries ago especially in places like Spain where the climate is harsh on furniture.

Like I said, it will take a little bit longer than screws and glue but something you can be proud of. It sounds more difficult than it really is.

There was an article in Australian Wood Review 18 months ago above sliding dovetails.

If I have made it too complicated, let me know so I can clarify any of the points.

himzol
6th October 2004, 09:33 AM
Thanks for that,


If I have made it too complicated, let me know so I can clarify any of the points.

No it doesn't sound complicated at all. In fact I think one of the books that I have at home describes this method, have to dig it out. I may be able to do some of this on the weekend, though I do have to build a retaining wall as well. At least I'll be able to make a start and see how it goes.

Himzo.

Wood Borer
6th October 2004, 09:40 AM
We look forward to a progress report on Monday (or receiving a poisoned letter for pointing you in this direction) :D

Trav
6th October 2004, 10:04 AM
good question himzo and great advice borer! I've been kicking around ideas for how to build an outdoor table for some time. But the design I had in mind meant that the table would be too big/heavy to shift around if I need to move house. The sliding dovetail idea is a cracker!

I presume it could be done with a straight bit and a 45 deg chamfer bit? Will this resist racking if the table is exposed to the elements? I was proposing to leave a few gaps in the boards on the top to allow for a bit of twisting and the water to drain away...

Thanks

Trav

Wood Borer
6th October 2004, 10:25 AM
45 degrees might be a bit too steep Trav, I have always either cut them by hand for small jobs or a dovetail bit for larger jobs. A circular saw could also be used if you use a good fence(s) for the slopes and then clean them out with a straight bit and/or a chisel.

Racking will be reduced, the more sliding dovetails, the less racking. The staves don't have to be flush with the bottom of the top, they can be thicker which is advisable for strength. The staves can also be cut on a table saw or bandsaw.

Good luck.