Canberra W.W.W. Show

[MAPLEMAN]

Wondering just how big this show is,as i have never been to the Canberra one.Feedback greatly appreciated:2tsup:

[I_wanna_Shed]

Not sure if it helps.... but probably no more than around 1/2 the size of the Sydney show.

[Jim Carroll]

try about 1/4

[I_wanna_Shed]

Yes that's probably more like it Jim.

Still, not a bad show. I might head down if I'm free. Will you be there Jim?

Nathan.

[Jim Carroll]

Yes we will be there. Get your orders in early to make sure you do not miss out.

As you say it is a good small show, more classed as a boutique show, just a bugga that it falls on fathers day,

[MAPLEMAN]

Thanks for the info,not sure if i will attend yet.Cheers:2tsup:

[groeneaj]

I'll make the trip down for the day- I'm hoping Neil Scobie will be at the Canberra show.
I'll probably stock up on some more wood since it's cheaper at the show!

[groeneaj]

Not long until the Canberra show now. From what I've read it's only a small show. Does anyone know where I can get a list of who is going to be there? I hear Canberra carbatec are not going to be there this year - I hope the other big names will still make the trip.

[KevM]

Not long until the Canberra show now. From what I've read it's only a small show. Does anyone know where I can get a list of who is going to be there? I hear Canberra carbatec are not going to be there this year - I hope the other big names will still make the trip.

Click on the logo http://cdn.woodworkforums.com/pics/twws.jpg at the top of this page and follow the menu options or click here (http://www.eee.net.au/twww/canberra2010-list.pdf) for a full list of exhibitors.

[groeneaj]

Click on the logo http://cdn.woodworkforums.com/pics/twws.jpg at the top of this page and follow the menu options or click here (http://www.eee.net.au/twww/canberra2010-list.pdf) for a full list of exhibitors.

Cheers :)

[Liz Falloon]

Hi Everyone, just got back from a week's break...............re the Canberra Show as Jim says its a boutique show with 56 exhibitors. We are bringing the full presentation program to Canberra so you will be able to attend all or many of the workshops. Neil and Liz Scobie will be there as will Patt Gregory (NEW this year), Guilio returns as does Stan and Tim. Also new this year to the presentation program is Theo Haralampou and Neil Ellis. The full program is listed on our website www.eee.net.au (http://www.eee.net.au). We will set up the forum lounge again so make sure you drop by for a cuppa and say hello - we will all be on site throughout the show and it would be good to meet you.
This show does fall on Father's Day but we have a great competition going for all of the Dad's of going in the draw to win shopping timber dollars. The competition will be drawn on Sunday at 3pm, so the laucky winner will have a couple of hours to spend shopping!
See you at the show Liz
PS don't forget to print off your forum discount voucher for entry to the show!

[Christopha]

Liz, please bring to Neils attention that the UBeaut stand looks naked and pathetic without the fantastic Doorstop on board... pretty please!

[Pat]

Doorstop, stop annoying poor Neil:q

[Liz Falloon]

not sure what the doorstop is on his stand but will make sure i pass the message on................!!!!

[wheelinround]

Naked :q you going to wear a cap Doorstop??

Yeh I might need someone to give cheek to on Friday.

[RETIRED]

Neil is taking the good looking one to this one. Moi.:wink:

[Christopha]

Neil is taking the good looking one to this one. Moi.:wink:

STREWTH! Don't forget ya teef!

[groeneaj]

Anyone know if there will be anyone selling bessey clamps at the show?

[robbygard]

Hi Everyone, just got back from a week's break...............See you at the show Liz
PS don't forget to print off your forum discount voucher for entry to the show!

thanks for fixing up my problem .. tickets arrived safely today

regards david:)

[andyd]

Groeneaj

Fischer Discounts usually have Bessy calmps I think. It might pay to give them a call on 62804105 and ask thoough.

Andyd

[groeneaj]

I called them today - apparently there are no bessey clamps in the country. Only kr150 - 10-12 week wait for the next shipment
Gasweld said the same thing...
Can anyone confirm this ?

[wheelinround]

Not going now. Was heading down with some friends but one has now been employed again. :doh:

[blue3.3]

I'll make the trip down for the day- I'm hoping Neil Scobie will be at the Canberra show.
I'll probably stock up on some more wood since it's cheaper at the show!
thats why im going and trend of course this will be my first time to the Camberra show i hope the 9hr drive is worth it :rolleyes:

[A Duke]

It is all go and here are some pictures including what I spent my readies on.:2tsup:

[robbygard]

had a pleasant time at the show and back home now ... was there with my wife and a friend ... met liz and her husband as well as renewing friendships with a number of the stall holders ... i managed to overspend (about $600 all up) and the three of us managed to spend just under $1000 at the show :no: and from what i saw business was pretty brisk at most stalls (without my help) ... fortuneately i have time to save a bit more before melbourne

i do think canberra is a very civilised show

regards david

[wheelinround]

I found out to McJings didn't go down.

[Mr Brush]

I also spent a very pleasant few hours at the Canberra show today.......

Less crowded, less schoolkids milling around, easier to see the demos, more chance to stop and chat to people - very enjoyable indeed.:2tsup:

In many ways I got more out of this show than the bigger Sydney one. I even had time to stop off at the Bungendore Wood Works gallery on the way home for a bit of inspiration.....:rolleyes:

[groeneaj]

Is one full day enough to see everything?
I could have easily spent the full 3 days at the Sydney show!

[Liz Falloon]

Hi Guys
thanks for the comments. We were really worried when we woke up this morning to heavy rain - however you guys from Canberra are pretty tough as we have a packed hall - everyone seems to be great business. Re McJing they have gone to China but have said they will be back next year.

Thanks everyone for your support. Liz

[Mr Brush]

Liz - coincidentally I was at McJings on Thursday, and heard the same thing from the man himself !

Congratulations on another excellent event. I'll certainly put both the Sydney and Canberra WWW shows on my calendar for next year (living about halfway between the two does have its advantages.....)

[bosun]

Congratulations on an excellent Canberra TWWWS. I spent the day there today and enjoyed every minute.

Well organised, lots of quality presentations and lots of good woodies stuff to look at (and buy!)

My first time at the Canberra show after many years in Melbourne and I reckon today out-did last year's Melbourne event - so keep up the good work EEE!

Betcha can't guess the name of the masterful guitar player who featured at the end of the day? (exhibitors not allowed to enter).

[Liz Falloon]

thanks Bosun for the comments. The sun is at least out today and already we have a good crowd. Thanks for coming and supporting the show Canberra! Liz

PS don't know who the guitar player is but love the music at the end of the day!

[mat]

Liz

Thanks again for the forum lounge. I certainly made good use of it and met up with .

I was very pleased to see Lie Neilson there despite not being on the exhibitors list. Managed to get their last 1/2 inch mortise chisel.

[blue3.3]

This show should be on the banned list I drove 7hr to get there spent all my money in 3hr found what I’m going to spent my money next time Matt Pavey has a lot to answer for in that department and then drive 7hr home no mcjing was disappointing and I didn’t find the piece of wood I was looking for but the friendly crowd and exhibitors made up for it i don't know if i'll do it again but I did have a good time thank you:2tsup:

[Pat]

Seems to me . . . I might have to wander down the highway . . . congrats to Liz and the crew . . . I have only heard good from here and my club mates.

[RETIRED]

From my point of view as a demonstrator it was an excellent show.

Liz and her crew do an excellent job of catering (within their powers) to everybody so that things run smoothly.

There was enough time to answer everybody's questions without feeling rushed.

The Forum lounge was well utilised but it is a pity that a few more didn't come and make themselves known.

But Bosun, did you hear the drummer accompanying the guitarist as well?:cool:

[Liz Falloon]

thanks everyone for the comments - all feeling very tired today, but really glad the show went as well as it did considering the wind rain and cold. Have to replace all of our outside signage as it was ripped to shreds. Back to Sydney tomorrow, to get ready for Melbourne Timber. Liz

[keen1880]

I attended the show on Friday 3rd. I was disappointed with the lack of exhibitors. The old faithfuls were there, but not much new. Over the past few years the show has got smaller and smaller. Now, with no Carbatec, Timbercon, Professional Woodworkers, Vek to name just a few, there is no opportunity to touch and compare machinery etc.
Also, apart from the Torque workcentre, no new products. Fishers had a lot of stuff, but it was jammed in and hard to get around.
We used to enoy the show because we could see tools not resdily available but many of these suppliers are no longer coming.
We remember when the Canberra show took up two halls, but now it is all in one with a fair part of that being lounges. No outdoor displays either, apart from timber.
Do I sound like I am whinging? Sorry, but after travelling for almost three hours to get to the show and being disappointed I wanted to get it off my chest.
calling it a "boutique" show? Playing with words, I think.
Someone once said that he couldn't understand why people were expected to pay to visit the WWW shows just to buy tools etc available from retail outlets. He may be close to the mark when I think that I could get most things from Carroll's etc over the internet and save the fuel in travelling to Canberra if there are no new tools or dnemonstations to attract me.
It's a pity because I used to look forward to the show.

[Liz Falloon]

sorry you felt the way you did about the show - you have visited the Canberra show not the Sydney or Melbourne Shows whereby the larger exhibitors you mention go to at and are supported by the numbers visiting the show. VEK exhibited last year in Canberra, and probably will be back next year. As for lounges i have to pick you up on that - there was one visitor lounge - these we have put into the shows after numerous requests from you the visitor. Again sorry you felt the show didn't deliver. Liz

[robbygard]

I attended the show on Friday 3rd. I was disappointed with the lack of exhibitors. The old faithfuls were there, but not much new. Over the past few years the show has got smaller and smaller. Now, with no Carbatec, Timbercon, Professional Woodworkers, Vek to name just a few, there is no opportunity to touch and compare machinery etc..

interesting take on it ... i also travelled 3 hours and stayed overnight at canberra in order to attend the canberra show ... yes it is a shame that some of the people aren't there but there were still sufficient unto my needs and i enjoyed the comparative quiet (and civilised as i said in a prior post) air to it ... it is easy to buy by phone or by internet but for me, getting to see and speak to people is a pleasant aspect and i tend NOT to buy wood other than in person ...

i feel frustrated with some of the vendors who seem to push you to buy products "sight unseen" ... the shows are a way of getting those products to the people but i guess they are making commercial decisions that say losing a few customers who won't buy new/different things mail order stacks up against the costs involved (although i must say i saw a lot of money being spent at canberra show which must have defrayed the costs for some) ...



Also, apart from the Torque workcentre, no new products. Fishers had a lot of stuff, but it was jammed in and hard to get around.
We used to enoy the show because we could see tools not resdily available but many of these suppliers are no longer coming.


i am not sure how much new stuff is out there really ... carbatec have a cnc router which would have been interesting to see but probably wouldn't have sold much ... i think there were individual demonstraters that could have done better for themselves by thinking more about how they presented their products but overall i would think the vendors would have been happy

i will still go to sydney and melbourne shows as well but I enjoyed canberra particularly

regards david

[Jim Carroll]

Just back from our capital city a bit worn out after the 10 hour drive through our flooded north victoria.

The show is a small show and that is reflected by the numbers that come through the door.

If you can double the people coming through the door then some of the other larger exhibitors may come back to Canberra.

It is not a cheap weekend for all the exhibitors and there is a lot of effort on our behalf and the organisers to make it a good show. This show is a relaxed show and that gives us a chance to talk to you and cater to your needs properly.
In the larger shows we are always time poor and can at times not get the right information across or get enough information to give you the goods you really need

From our point of view the weekend was a success in meeting old and new customers the sales are a bonus.

Will we go back again , certainly we will be there again next year.

[Harry R]

This was my third year running at the Canberra show and I prefer the more relaxed pace to the frenetic Sydney Show. I went on Friday and spent 5 hours there:o and if I hadn't a prior commitment I could have spent another one or two hours there.

Highlights:
- topping up my supplies of Carol's gear.
- having a yarn with A Duke in the forum lounge (which I hope stays a permanent fixture).
- bumping into Steve at the Lie Nielson stand where I bought two floats, which have been seeing a lot of use since then. It was nice to see LN there - as tempting as the shiny lovely tools were, I refrained (Steve did you end up buying the no4?).
- the special prices on pretty much every UBeaut product (of which I bought at least half a dozen).
- some fantastically patterned black heart sassafrass that I was lucky enough to grab as I got there first thing.
- Some of the amazing ACT Guild displays.
- My brand spanking new Tormek T7!
- Chris Vesper's stand.
- The variety of expert presentations.

Hopefully Terry Gordon will be back next year.

[yoda1949]

It is interesting to read comments on the recent show. I have today had a meeting with members of my wood club and they felt that keen1880 was pretty right in his observations. Different members have been going to shows in Sydney and Canberra for the past 15 years and have noticed the decline in the shows.
As an example I was at the sydney show with a friend about 8 years ago and he managed to outfit his workshop with machinery and tools which he could see and touch and see some in operation. He could compare prices and brands from a number of suppliers who were present, before committing to a purchase, something which you could not do now in Canberra or Sydney. These suppliers are no longer at the shows, or their presence is so small that almost no machinery is on display, and not operating.
I have enjoyed the shows over the years and have enjoyed catching up with people who I only see once a year. I spend money and my workshop is full of bits and pieces I have bought over the years.
Why is the number of exhibitors down? Anecdotal evidence indicates that venue costs are too high and too much turnover is needed to cover these costs before making any profit. Also, Jim Carroll suggests that twice the number of visitors might encourage exhibitors back, so maybe the entry fee should be reviewed. After all, shops don't charge you to visit their store for you to purchase or windowshop. These are matters entirely in the hands of the organisers and perhaps exhibitors who express their view by not turning up.
Food for thought- why not have a new products corner where things like the ones featured in the Australian Woodworker each month could be seen and touched, after all we woodies are a touchy feely fraternity. Or, tools displayed by type rather than brand as then you would know what routers, saw tables, lathes etc etc are available. Catering could also get a bit of attention.
I,m sorry if this sounds like a whinge, but me and my friends want the wood shows to succeed but don't know why we should accept less than we used to get.
Please consider this as constructive cirticism, not destructive observations

[Liz Falloon]

Sorry I haven't got back to answer the last comments - in all truthfulness I decided to think about my response to you. I did feel I had answered some of the comments re the previous post.

You mention you are part of a woodclub, therefore I wonder if you are also part of the ACT Guild. If so you would have seen the large display the Guild had at the Canberra Show. The space along with the build, walls, power, carpet and funding of their catering for the presentations is all courtesy of the Organiser. We feel this is our part of putting back to the Industry.

Not only did we fund the Guild this year but we added the attraction of funding the 1,000 Toys for Charities stand. I won't embarrass anyone of saying how much this all cost but enough to say it is more than considerable. I tell you this because you mention increasing the number of exhibitors to the show.................exhibitors need return on their investment just like us. If we were to stop supporting clubs and Guilds we would therefore be able to take more commercial exhibitors into that space, and then as you predict we could have more visitors therefore it would may seen to be a win win for everyone, except the clubs and Guild. It certainly is in our interest to have more commercial exhibitors and visitors which would allow us to then turn a break even show into a profitable exercise.

I just have to state again that exhibitors like Timbercon who are based in Perth don't believe they can get a return on their investment from the Canberra show!

I thank you for taking the time to outline your thoughts, and they are taken as constructive and caring.
Regards Liz

[Morbius]

Like a number of people here, and like the people that I spoke with who attended, I was disappointed that some of the vendors who have previously attended didn't show up. Timbercon, McJings and surprisingly Carbatec.

I was very keen on comparing some machinery and had budgeted for a good quality bandsaw. I found two bandsaws in the size range I was looking for, and both came out of the same factory. There wasn't much in the way of variety from my viewpoint.

I understand about the importance of supporting clubs etc, but that doesn't change the fact that the show is getting smaller every year and fewer vendors are supporting it because it isn't worth their time because it doesn't get the numbers. Isn't that the law of diminishing returns?

If Canberra really wants to keep the show, I think that cheaper floorspace at the show is the only solution that can be offered. That might mean that there will be less of a profit, but sometimes you have to spend money to make money. This would make it worthwhile for the vendors, and attract better crowds again. It might also mean doing it for two or three years to rebuild the market and overcome the reputation of the Canberra show. Wouldn't that be better than canceling the show altogether because it just isn't worth it anymore?

Liz, you are right, Timbercon couldn't justify the cost because they are in Perth. How about Carbatec, who are located less than 30 km away?

Next year, I think I'll take a leaf out of Timbercon, McJings and Carbatec's book and just go to the Sydney show instead, unless things improve. I would bet that there are enough like-minded people around here in Canberra to fill a bus and make the trip worthwhile. For smaller items, I might be better off just buying direct from the US.

Craig

[yoda1949]

Thanks Morbius
I'm glad to see your response, I was beginning to think that I was the only one having these concerns. I travel 3 hours to Canberra and 5 hours to Sydney and next year I think I will only go to Sydney as well.
It's a pity that the organisers don't appear to recognise the problems visitors are having or if they do, aren't coming up with any solutions.

[corbs]

I don't go to the Canberra show expecting to be wow'd with a truckload of exhibitors showing the latest and greatest of everything. Carbatec haven't been at the show in a number of years but do show day specials in shop (Fyshwick) rather than pay the extra for a site. It would be nice to see them there but as a business there needs to be a return for expenditure and this is the same for anyone running the show.

I hope the negative comments in this thread aren't seen by the organisers as a general concensus in the area. It would be easy to shut up shop and Canberra miss out altogether as they nearly did with Summernats.

If I want big ticket items then I go to Sydney. I go to Canberra to catch up with fellow woodies, buy some wood and see whats available locally. My only (very minor) issue is $15 entry for both show's when one is vastly superior to the other. Big picture, I'm happy to spend $15 ($10 with the Ubeaut discount) for a day out with like minded people.

Thanks to Liz and the team for putting on the show and I hope it continues to receive the support it deserves.

Corbs

[Mr Brush]

I'll second that. I went to both Sydney and Canberra shows, and you cannot compare the two.

If you want the biggest, busiest show full of the latest gadgets...you'll just have to go to Sydney. The Canberra show will never attract that number of exhibitors given its limited 'catchment' area, and it is unreasonable to expect that even if the costs to exhibitors were lower.

I probably enjoyed the Canberra show more to be honest. Less crowded, more chance to meet people and chat, easier to view some of the excellent demos, not so many schoolkids under your feet (Friday).....:2tsup:

[Liz Falloon]

Craig
I think I have really said enough on the subject of the Canberra Show - if I have indicated that we are making huge profits out of this show then I have got the wrong message across - we are not!! Canberra people have to decide whether you want to support a show, by lowering the floorspace rate the show is not viable. We had over 4,000 people attend the show and have had (on the forum) complaints about size from a handful - so it seems some people are enjoying the show. Where else could you spend $15.00 to have a full day, shopping, and being exposed to world class presenters!! Regards investment in the show - ask exhibitors that's all we have been doing since the purchase of the shows 2 and half years ago. Carbatec have not supported the show for over three years. To say the show is getting smaller every year is incorrect - it the same size as last.

I think forum members know that I am prepared to listen and act upon suggestions that many of you have provided, however I feel that now we are just going over old ground and nothing new regarding the Canberra Show.

Regards Liz

[Morbius]

Liz,

Like other people here. I did enjoy the show, but nowhere near as much as I did in years past. I have spoken to a number of former vendors, as well as a few of those still attending. I was told by these people that the main reason for vendors not attending was the price of floor space for the number of attendees.

I didn't think the show was making much of a profit, my suggestion was to invest in the show by lowering the cost of floor space to achieve a long term gain.

When I see people saying they prefer the show because it isn't so crowded, I can't help but think that is fine for the visitors, but not exactly good business for the vendors. If anything, it is a reason for vendors to stay away.

Yes, Liz I realise that these same points have been covered before, this year, last year and the year before. If the price of floor space doesn't change, you can probably expect the same again next year too.

If floor space pricing is not something that the organisers are willing to negotiate, is there anything else being done to attract some of the vendors who have dropped out, back?

Thanks,

Craig

[Sturdee]

I have spoken to a number of former vendors, as well as a few of those still attending. I was told by these people that the main reason for vendors not attending was the price of floor space for the number of attendees.

I didn't think the show was making much of a profit, my suggestion was to invest in the show by lowering the cost of floor space to achieve a long term gain.



I think that a few of the Canberrans are flogging a dead horse, but I suppose that is typical for a city whose only existence is to keep politician away from us most of the time. :2tsup:

It is abundantly clear to most of us that in order to break even the organisers have to charge for the floor space and entrance fees. If the charge for floor space is to be reduced than higher charges for entry should be made or more people coming to the show.

More visitors is unlikely because of the small size of Canberra, higher entry prices would make it more expensive than the other cities, so there is probably no room to negotiate on floor space charges.

Don't forget EEE is not like the government that can spend billions of other people's money. So get over it and face reality. Be glad that you even have a show at all.

My 2 cents worth on this.

Peter.

[Morbius]

Sturdee,

I am glad to still have a show, and would love to still have a show in 2 years time. I am not content to sit with my head in the sand and settle for hoping the show will "be better next year", so I am speaking my mind about the issue and making a couple of suggestions.

I've asked Liz about what other options there are. I am certain that I am not the only one who'd like to hear.

There are three main variables for this particular show for the EEE to turn a profit: Bums on seats, number of paying vendors and entry cost.

I asked about what is being done to attract some of the vendors who do not attend the Canberra show anymore.

Liz says they can't drop the prices for floor space, so that leaves entry fees and the number of paying vendors. I am pretty sure that most attendees would prefer not to have to pay more, but we are fish in a barrel in this case and have no real choice in this matter. I would have happily paid $25 to get into the show if it meant that I could get a deal on the machinery I went there hoping to buy.

If floor space cost is not going to be dropped, then using the space gained from having additional space freed up by reducing that allocated to non-paying attendees, such as the guild may be one of the other only viable options. Not a pleasant thought, eh?

Canberra has a small timber-growing industry - what about sponsorship?

The Adelaide WWW show spent $40,000+ on TV advertising alone, according to these forums. I didn't see much on TV here in the lead-up. I know $40,000 doesn't buy a lot of TV time, but does more need to be done?

The date - The Father's Day weekend - at first look, this looks like a good idea except that the majority of gifts are purchased before the weekend meaning that there is less spare change rattling around in pockets for gifts.

Optionally, if it is going to be held on the Father's Day weekend, what about making Gift Cards available? Having a gift card could mean providing a reduced entry fee to the show and provide Dad with a pretty much guaranteed purchase to the value of the card at least.

What about arranging a travel deal with a bus company from Sydney and a freight deal for shipping gear to Sydney from Canberra (not all vendors are based in Sydney)?


Just a couple of ideas. Not all of them are workable, but something to think about.

Thanks,

Craig

[corbs]

*cough*

[keen1880]

I'm sorry if I got people offside with my comments. Like morbius, I just don't want things to get worse.
Liz, I look forward to the shows each year and will continue to attend and I accept that much of the remedy is outside your control. After all, you can't compel exhibitors to come.
I just optimistically go to the show hoping to see something new. For instance I am intersted to see the new cryogenic turning chisels, which have been available elsewhere in the world for years, but when I ask local dealers about them I just get blank looks. The should be good for our hard woods, but we are missing out. I might have to bite the bullet and buy them sight unseen which is not ideal as descritions of dimensions etc are often open to interpretation.
Anyhow, enough said.

[ubeaut]

Doesn't matter what EEE or anyone else does there will always be someone who isn't happy.

This year was the first time U-Beaut has done the Canberra show so there's one new exhibitor. There were more demonstrations than ever before. That alone should be worth the price of entry to the show.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Carba Tec (the local one) hasn't been to the show for years. Timbecon has massively scaled back on shows, Mik International went to the wall, Mc Jings were in China and a number of others are doing it pretty hard at the moment and just can't afford to throw lots of money at doing a show that doesn't really do anything to boost their bottom line.

I'm pretty sure the price of floor space hasn't gone up appreciably since EEE took over if at all, Yet I'll just about bet the price they have to pay to stage these events has.

There's a simplistic view that all an exhibitor has to pay for is the floor space.
That's way, way, way off the mark. There's a lot more to it than that.

I have done every Timber and Working With Wood Show in Melbourne since it's inception in 1988, most of the Sydney and Adelaide shows and about 13 Brisbane shows. In all that time I think we've come home from the shows with a small profit about 5 times most of the rest we have fluctuated between a loss and a disastrously catastrophic loss.

Just speaking from our (U-Beaut Polishes) point of view and we're only small fry. A show and it's cost goes something like this....
Please note: some of the figurs mentioned below are rough and not meant to be exact.


One week (at least) preparation for show.

That means: for one week (often more) when the real work suffers as production is geared to possible sales at the show and not paying customers, orders, contracts, etc. Have often had to stop production on overseas orders for this. Minimum loss in earnings, production, etc somewhere around $4,000






Most shows need between 7 - 12 days away from the factory (Brisbane 14 days)

This means a further period of non production and hence income that is lost (bar the 3 days of the show) (Average loss of working time and income $6,000 - $8,000



Accommodation, fuel, meals, wage for demonstrator(s), sundries

Average cost $3,000 to $5,000 depending on show and time away Accommodation alone was over $1,800 for Canberra and that's one of the cheaper shows to do.


Floor space at show Paid to EEE


For our size stand - Negligible compared to the over-all price of doing a show



Walls, power, parking, phone line for efpos, internet, etc (Paid to contractors, telstra, venue, etc) NOT PAID TO EEE


Often not much less than the floor space - average cost $900 - $1200 depending on venue - Cheaper this year as we've switched to mobile EFT and wireless.


After the show

1 - 2 days unpack, stocktake put the place back together again and try to regain sanity.






Turnover we could expect at the best show (always Melbourne) Absolute Tops $13,500 50% of that is production costs.

Turnover for the worst show this year $5,000 less production costs

So:



Profit on sales from the best show $6,750 - LESS
Cost of shows to us in money paid out $6.500 - $7,000
Looking at it like this means that, even at the best show we either break even or make a small loss.



However if you add into that, the loss of production time time the cost is way into the tens of thousands.

Then there's time away from home and family, stress, anxiety, long hrs, sleepless nights in unfamiliar beds, etc, etc, etc

To top this off it cost much the same for all the shows yet the turnover is often less than a quarter of the above. Worst shows ever around $1,200 in Adelaide and $3,000 in Sydney - both around 10 years ago.

Best Shows - Melbourne none of the others can hold a candle to it.

Worst Shows - Adelaide & Sydney - Have done a couple of shows in Sydney where they were lucky to have 3,000 through the doors for the 3 days - Have also had a couple of blinders, but Sydney is by far the most inconsistent show. Adelaide consistently ordinary, never been anything more than reasonable. Although the last one was very good for Adelaide among the better ones we've ever done there..

Most consistent Show - BRISBANE Never had a bad show in Brisbane, never had a blinder in Brisbane either, however the shows there are always good and always consistent. I.E. if you turn over $8,000 the first time you go there you will almost invariably turn over the same amount every time you go there.

There's more I could say from our point of view but it would just be drivel.

Spare a thought for the bigger businesses who attend these shows. Put yourself in their shoes. They need to have a big stand to get all their goodies on, carry $100,000+ of stock or people will complain they didn't have anything. Still have enough stock on the showroom floor so the shop can stay open, Supply a dozen staff for show and in many cases also supplying them with meals, accommodation, wages, (shudder) etc. They also need to have enough staff left to keep their shop. then there's the 2 days setting up before the show opens, breaking down the stand and packing it all up again after the show, restocking the shop, freight, etc, etc, etc

All the above on the off chance that some of the 4,000 people through the door will buy from them even though there are 3 or 4 other businesses there with the same stuff trying to undercut each other.

Get the picture.

It's pretty easy to see why some don't come to the smaller shows, why others are doing it tough and a number have gone to the wall. It seems to be getting to the point where the strongest will survive and there will be only one or two of each type of exhibitor at the shows in time to come and that could be a really good thing especially for exhibitors.

Cheaper floor space: As for pricing of floor space. The venue price is set by the venue NOT EEE. This price has to be paid for and this is done by selling the floor space. The exhibitors aren't paying any more and the clubs just won't pay, So where the idea of dropping the price comes from has got me beat especially as there are less exhibitors prepared or able to support the smaller shows.

Cheaper catering: Catering has nothing to do with EEE they have no control over it. The catering is either run by or contracted to the venue NOT EEE.

Cheaper entry: Entry fees are the difference between these shows running or not. Cheaper entry could mean the organisers lose money instead of breaking even or making a modest profit. Selling floor space pays for the venue or should then there's the rest and that's a lot. Advertising $40,000 in tv ads alone then there's banners, papers, radio, and that's just the advertising which is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to running one of these things.

Attracting more visitors: We'd all love to see more of them. How do we get them there? Don't think it's possible to get many more as there are only so many who are interested. Times when visitor numbers are up it has always been people on an outing with no interest in woodwork, This helps the organisers but does nothing for exhibitors.

I could go on for another 20 screens about the shows and why they declined under the previous organisers, and why the shows in the hands of EEE have become better than that have been in many.many years in the hands of EEE, etc, etc.

The above is my personal view and nothing to do with EEE.

If you really want to see a great show make the trip to Melbourne in October. The birthplace of the Timber and working With Wood Shows.

Cheers - Neil

PS Will put a new survey on here in the next few days, so members and visitors can have their say on the shown and make suggestions that may help make the shows bigger and better. Have one that's been going for a number of years and the only ones to act on any of the proposals from that one have been EEE. The previous organisers just saw it as a bunch of complaints or a pat on the back and did nothing about anything in it.



If a handful of people keep talking the shows down and winging about not being happy then people don't attend the shows

[Greg Ward]

Well said, thought out and constructed.

Show attendance is a chance to meet potential and current customers, to review chances in consumer demands, check the opposition and have some great chats and meals in different cities.

Profitability may be important to the one-off exhibitor, who travels from WA or N Qld with a load of timber or some produced stock to sell. but for constant exhibitors, it's about contact. Naturally, profit is sought after, break even is nice and a small loss is OK as shows often generate future sales which also need to be included in any P&L consideration.
If time was taken into account, yes. we'd be working for $2.00/hour, but there is more to this than a factory produtivity measurement especially when family or small business operators are involved.

Visitors don't always come to purchase, they come to learn and to look and I know Mal always tries to have someting in his display that has a 'wow' factor.
It's not a circus, but even a small 'show' such as that put on by the Kiama boys, can be pleasurable and provide a modicom of entertainment.

I think EEE are doing a great job and if larger companies don't wish to attend the shows, due to the 'cost', they really may need to think again and to balance that against the loss opportunities and goodwill that comes from public display.

Roll on 2011. More shows and more fun.

Greg

[Jim Carroll]

Well said Neil.:2tsup:

[A Duke]

Neil , you are making me feel guilty again. The first time was when you said you wished more of the members who used the lounge had made them selves known and now because I did not stock up, in spite of having the U-Beaut products needed on my shopping list. I have one excuse for both first time round you were lecturing and every one lined up to buy so I decided to come back later then after having coffee later you were all busy so I went for another circuit but when I suddenly decided I was tired I went home. I was half way home when I realised I had had a seniors moment and forgotten to buy some of the main items on my list.
Apologies and all that jazz.

[Morbius]

if larger companies don't wish to attend the shows, due to the 'cost', they really may need to think again and to balance that against the loss opportunities and goodwill that comes from public display.

This is probably the one thing I do agree with that has been said in answer to any of my questions. It is also the closest thing I'll get to an answer to my question when I asked what was being done to attract vendors back, and I gather that the answer is "nothing". :doh:

I walked into that show prepared to spend $2000 and walked out after spending $30. That included the entry fee and $5 on coffee. Was I happy? Were the friends I met in there happy? Were the people I spoke to at work who went or on our forums at work particularly happy? :no:

The selection of bandsaws available to look at was dismal. It came down to Jet or Major, or some Metabo toy. :C

I went there looking for bandsaws and components to refit my workshop, such as jig components. I looked and looked but couldn't find anyone selling Kreg gear, or t-tracks, or hold-downs. Surely people wanting to fit out their workshop must be a part of the target demographic for the WWW show. The reason that I didn't buy this stuff from the US over the net was I knew the show was coming and wanted to support it. Last year and the year before I could have purchased what I needed at the show.

I keep seeing responses to the effect "It's Canberra - leave it alone", "it can't be fixed" or "You're flogging a dead horse". When I see a vendor, such as UBeaut reinforcing that viewpoint, I can only think that things are going to get worse as other vendors decide that the maths don't work for them either, despite the positives that Greg pointed out.

From the numbers that UBeaut has quoted, I see that Canberra's attendance (of over 4,000 this year according to Liz) puts it up there with the other shows for attendance. UBeaut himself said:


All the above on the off chance that some of the 4,000 people through the door will buy from them even though there are 3 or 4 other businesses there with the same stuff trying to undercut each other.

Well, there was 4,000+ people come through the doors, and there weren't 3 or 4 others trying to undercut prices for bandsaws, or jig components. That's just not happening in Canberra. :no:

There isn't even a real hint of competition there anymore. As a visitor, like the vendors, I am now asking "why bother?" I am not going to save money by going to the show. I can match most "show specials" by paying for larger items in cash and driving to Sydney. The majority of other stuff for sale at the show, I can pick up the same item or something similar here locally at the same price.

According to Liz, attendance this year was pretty much the same as last year, so it's not like vendors didn't know that Canberra might get those kinds of numbers. The majority of those attending were not non-woodworking WAGs at $15 a head, they were potential customers.

I have seen people talk about the GFC having an impact upon the show, however places like Bunnings are reporting improved profits, despite the GFC because people are doing more home improvements etc, instead of buying other stuff.

I think it was Liz who said that they haven't seen any complaints at all, except on this forum. This forum represents only a fraction of a percentage of the people who attended the show, however because people like Liz visit, it is one of the few places the organizers can hear the concerns of local attendees, and not just the vendors. There are very few of the attendees who would be motivated enough to write a letter of complaint. If EEE ran a comments book at the show, it might have been a different matter.

The only real reason that I can see that the show can't be improved is because people aren't really interested in fixing it. I have worked with marketing and PR and can tell you that the TV advertising using what appeared to be a recycled Val Morgan cinema ad is not effective. I can tell you that the ad did not have a target audience, instead it used a scattergun approach and did not appeal to any particular audience. I can also tell you that there was little being done to determine the reason why people were attending the show, and from Liz's response and the response of some of the others on this forum, it is obvious that there is no interest in why people weren't going to the show or won't next year.

So, yes, I know it is a dead horse. I also know that people here like it that way.

[MAPLEMAN]

Alot of people commented about the lack of exhibitors at the sydney working with wood show this year.Why are they not there anymore? The parking is an absolute nightmare at the sydney venue,so if people use public transport to get there,how can they get their purchased goods home? Maybe a less expensive venue(in terms of floor space cost) that has better parking facilities might get the exhibitors and the punters back in numbers.The reality is sydney has a huge population base,and not many of them showed up for the wood show this year.Sad but true!! I hope the shows go forward in the future,but alot of work has to be done for this to happen.

[Morbius]

I was surprised to see from UBeaut's post that the Melbourne show was the one to go to, rather than the Sydney one. That really surprised me. I guess it makes sense once you think about it, but it had never crossed my mind.

It's a pity I can't get the the Melbourne one this year.

Craig

[I_wanna_Shed]

Neil,

A very insightful and appreciated post. I never doubted that massive amounts of work, time, and money was involved in getting to a show - no matter if you are a one man stand or a stand with a dozen+ staff on board. Your post however emphasised that fact.

I'm in no way a business owner, so I'm pretty naive on this front! But, U-Beaut is definately on the right track. Events such as the shows, and especially these forums cost time and money. A positive dollar value may not be returned from these items, but as you know, good will is most definately returned. Good will in return must surely bring in income. Along with being absolutely superb products, many people would buy products from you at the show as a token 'thank you' for the effort you put in.

I think that flows over to the other exhibitors. For example McJing - I try and purchase off them whenever I can, and other exhibiting vendors. I always check out the Carbatec website and usually forget abour H&F because they do not have a presence at the shows.

In Sydney I'm not too fussed over the entry fee, the catering is actually pretty good and resonably priced compared to similiar shows and events (someone try lining up for 40 minutes for the worst sandwich in the world at the ABC Garden Show!!!), the parking location is acceptable (however the price is a bit high - not related to anyone to do with the show though), and there are two big halls plus an outdoor exhibition area. I'm impressed with what EEE have achieved.

If there were some bad impressions with the previous management from either vendors or customers, then it definately won't be resolved within 1 or even 2 shows. But it will progress and will likely happen (as someone loosely involved with the turn around of Coles, trust me it won't happen easily or quickly). Remember if patrons have been burnt previously, then vendors will have too - when commercials are involved it will take time to fix.

Let's face it, woodwork is not a massive mainstream hobby within an already small population. Let's just appreciate the show and get behind it. Compared to other hobbies such as home brewers or cyclists, - we have a damn good show!

This is a ramble, but is my 2 cents worth.

Nathan.

[MAPLEMAN]

Neil,

A very insightful and appreciated post. I never doubted that massive amounts of work, time, and money was involved in getting to a show - no matter if you are a one man stand or a stand with a dozen+ staff on board. Your post however emphasised that fact.

I'm in no way a business owner, so I'm pretty naive on this front! But, U-Beaut is definately on the right track. Events such as the shows, and especially these forums cost time and money. A positive dollar value may not be returned from these items, but as you know, good will is most definately returned. Good will in return must surely bring in income. Along with being absolutely superb products, many people would buy products from you at the show as a token 'thank you' for the effort you put in.

I think that flows over to the other exhibitors. For example McJing - I try and purchase off them whenever I can, and other exhibiting vendors. I always check out the Carbatec website and usually forget abour H&F because they do not have a presence at the shows.

In Sydney I'm not too fussed over the entry fee, the catering is actually pretty good and resonably priced compared to similiar shows and events (someone try lining up for 40 minutes for the worst sandwich in the world at the ABC Garden Show!!!), the parking location is acceptable (however the price is a bit high - not related to anyone to do with the show though), and there are two big halls plus an outdoor exhibition area. I'm impressed with what EEE have achieved.

If there were some bad impressions with the previous management from either vendors or customers, then it definately won't be resolved within 1 or even 2 shows. But it will progress and will likely happen (as someone loosely involved with the turn around of Coles, trust me it won't happen easily or quickly). Remember if patrons have been burnt previously, then vendors will have too - when commercials are involved it will take time to fix.

Let's face it, woodwork is not a massive mainstream hobby within an already small population. Let's just appreciate the show and get behind it. Compared to other hobbies such as home brewers or cyclists, - we have a damn good show!

This is a ramble, but is my 2 cents worth.

Nathan.
Not sure i agree with you that the parking location is acceptable,and it is more than a bit high.I reckon it would put alot of people off going to the show.There has got to be a better and more affordable venue than Fox studio's.Better for the punters and more affordable for the organisers(which then might bring the floor space price down)

[Groggy]

I was surprised to see from UBeaut's post that the Melbourne show was the one to go to, rather than the Sydney one. That really surprised me. I guess it makes sense once you think about it, but it had never crossed my mind.

It's a pity I can't get the the Melbourne one this year.

CraigIf you are interested, have a look at the stack of photos I posted last year in the Melbourne T&WWWS thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f135/photo-tour-melbourne-working-wood-show-15-18-oct-2009-bandwidth-warning-106674/).

[I_wanna_Shed]

Not sure i agree with you that the parking location is acceptable,and it is more than a bit high.I reckon it would put alot of people off going to the show.There has got to be a better and more affordable venue than Fox studio's.Better for the punters and more affordable for the organisers(which then might bring the floor space price down)

Not having a go, but what do you not like about the parking location? Its close enough, vacant spaces, easy to get in and out of. The pricing is high - of course. But not too different from the CBD just a few km up the road. Of course cheaper parking would be better (skipping the 15 bucks for parking would equal getting the admission price for free!).

I guess I just see paying stupid amounts of money for parking in Sydney as 'normal' nowadays :~

Venues have been spoken about heaps on here. Rosehill racecourse, Panthers, Darling Harbour. I feel if it moved to another venue there would still be pro's and con's.

[Jim Carroll]

I was surprised to see from UBeaut's post that the Melbourne show was the one to go to, rather than the Sydney one. That really surprised me. I guess it makes sense once you think about it, but it had never crossed my mind.

It's a pity I can't get the the Melbourne one this year.

Craig
If you put a circle around each show this is generally where the woodies travel from.

Brisbanites about 6hrs
Sydneyites about 3hrs
Canberra 3hrs
Adelaide 2hrs
Melbourne 6hrs

[MAPLEMAN]

Not having a go, but what do you not like about the parking location? Its close enough, vacant spaces, easy to get in and out of. The pricing is high - of course. But not too different from the CBD just a few km up the road. Of course cheaper parking would be better (skipping the 15 bucks for parking would equal getting the admission price for free!).

I guess I just see paying stupid amounts of money for parking in Sydney as 'normal' nowadays :~

Venues have been spoken about heaps on here. Rosehill racecourse, Panthers, Darling Harbour. I feel if it moved to another venue there would still be pro's and con's. At the end of the day,after you have paid entry fee,purchased food,fuel for car,parking costs,turns out to be an expensive day.O.K. if you are retired with plenty of money,but the reality is,most folk nowadays have to guard their money with due diligance.Yes,the shows are iconic,but they have to be made more affordable for the average punter,and for the exhibitor.Getting rid of the entry fee would be a start,as the notion of having to pay to go shopping,does seem a tad absurd.People like value for money,if they don't get it,they feel ripped off,so when you have to pay $5 for a pie or $5 for a can of softdrink,the alarm bells ring.Yep,sydney is expensive all right!

[Jim Carroll]

You are all complaining about costs.

As Neil has indicated your costs are minimal for what it costs to put on a show. We all wish it was cheaper but reality is it will never get cheaper when all our labour force want a fair wage for a fair days work, nobody here works for a bowl of rice.

EEE have no control over prices as I am sure they work their hardest to get a good deal from all the venues and we work hard at trying to get a good deal out of them.

Have you been to the home show or the car shows, thay are no different all make for an expensive day out or did you see the costs for going to support your favourite footy team, take the wife and kids along and you have got rid of $100.00 before you get in the gate. The last concert we went to cost us $90.00 per ticket, that was our choice but we still went because we wanted to.

Nothing is going to get cheaper grin and bear it or find a new hobbie in marbles.

At the end of the day if you and your mates decide it is not worth going to the show then eventually they will die a slow death.

Let the exhibitors that are not at the show know that you want them there, keep presuring them and they may come back.

[Groggy]

You can avoid the entry costs by volunteering for a shift on the forum stand - it's the next best thing to sneaking in :)

[wheelinround]

Jim yes prices are going up, why though:rolleyes: unions aren't pushing, striking for higher wages as they used to, penalty rates are all but dead. Its greed at the top, it super investor CEO's walking away with the $$$$$.

As has been pointed out retired self funded or otherwise, this is a hobby time you realised this and spending like there is no tomorrow on an item you'll never get return on just doesn't fit the wallet. We all want fairer prices, better deals, many of us have to look and dream we don't have the endless pit of $$$.

I applaud those who are creating the shed nest egg now while still working but be warned when in 20 years you want to retire as Jim says its not going to be cheap to replace those out of date tools.

[Sturdee]

You can avoid the entry costs by volunteering for a shift on the forum stand - it's the next best thing to sneaking in :)

And in Melbourne parking right next to the show ( with a small shuttle courtesy bus as well) was only $ 5.00 a day.

Then EEE throw in free coffee at the forum stand as well, this together with the forum discount and the numerous demonstrations by experts on a number of subjects and still complaints about the costs.

Whilst I like to see more vendors and larger comparison ranges we seem to overlook the great benefits of the demo's which is the main reason I will be going every day.


Peter.

[MAPLEMAN]

You are all complaining about costs.

As Neil has indicated your costs are minimal for what it costs to put on a show. We all wish it was cheaper but reality is it will never get cheaper when all our labour force want a fair wage for a fair days work, nobody here works for a bowl of rice.

EEE have no control over prices as I am sure they work their hardest to get a good deal from all the venues and we work hard at trying to get a good deal out of them.

Have you been to the home show or the car shows, thay are no different all make for an expensive day out or did you see the costs for going to support your favourite footy team, take the wife and kids along and you have got rid of $100.00 before you get in the gate. The last concert we went to cost us $90.00 per ticket, that was our choice but we still went because we wanted to.

Nothing is going to get cheaper grin and bear it or find a new hobbie in marbles.

At the end of the day if you and your mates decide it is not worth going to the show then eventually they will die a slow death.

Let the exhibitors that are not at the show know that you want them there, keep presuring them and they may come back.
Yep,people are complaining about costs,as for them being minimal:no:.As for finding a new hobby in marbles:no:

[RETIRED]

Getting rid of the entry fee would be a start,as the notion of having to pay to go shopping,does seem a tad absurd. Tell Costco that. The place is always packed.

People like value for money,if they don't get it,they feel ripped off,so when you have to pay $5 for a pie or $5 for a can of softdrink,the alarm bells ring.Yep,sydney is expensive all right!I am employed at the shows and have my meals paid for but generally I (and many of the vendors)take our own because it is another cost but we get to have edible food and don't have to queue.

As for value. As Peter said about the demonstrations. If you had the demonstrators come to your club I bet you would pay more than $15.00.

[MAPLEMAN]

Some of you blokes just don't get it:doh:You ask everyone on this forum to impart their opinions as to how the working with wood shows could be improved,and when someone says anything,you all go into denial.:no: No you's are right,there is nothing wrong with the dynamics of the wood shows,forgive me for expressing an opinion,it wont happen again!:no:

[Sturdee]

By the way Mapleman are you complaining about parking and entry fee as a visitor coming to both the Sydney and Canberra shows or as an actual ( or potential) exhibitor /seller of your timbers.

Please clarify as I'm confused.


Peter.