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Paul39
8th September 2010, 04:03 AM
I briefly looked at a Woodfast 410 this morning. 20 inch swing, short bed, on sheet metal cabinet.

It had 4 step pulleys with the multi V belt, a small black variable speed dial, and ran on 230 volts.

I was impressed with the solid look of it.

I understand it is no longer made by the original mfg. and that Rikon bought the rights.

I am in LUST, any information is helpful, good, bad, or indifferent. Comments from owners / users especially welcome.

I'm going back tomorrow in work clothes to crawl around and dig around in its guts.

Anything I should look for?

Thanks.

Pat
8th September 2010, 05:15 AM
Paul, do you mean . . .






Model M910 Wood Lathe $3460.00
Manual Speed Change in 3 Phase Available POA
Prices are subjected to change due to exchange rate
The M910 has been designed completely with the future owner in mind. Its overall construction is solid and vibration-free. The 2 HP motor, coupled with an established European brand electronic variable speed drive power pack provides maximum grunt when it is needed and smooth, fast speeds for delicate spindle-turning work. All machine operating controls are in simple and easy reach for no-fuss, enjoyable woodturning.
Pure woodturning heaven!
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http://www.woodfast.com.au/web_images/M910%201.JPG





Heavy Duty vibration absorbing cast iron construction
Finely ground bed for reduced friction
4 large QUATRO design Headstock Bearings
Heavy Duty steel cabinet stand
Portable switch controls for operator comfort
Spindle Lock for easy removal of chucks
24 division Index Pin
Swing over Bed 520mm
Distance between centres 975mm
Spindle tapers No 2
Tailstock Spindle travel 100mm
Electronic variable speed 10-3600 rpm
Spindle Thread 30mm x 3.5 p
Powerful fan cooled Motor 2 hp x 240 volt
Micro switch to Headstock Lid & Cabinet Door

Options:
http://www.woodfast.com.au/web_images/re%20size%20Rear%20Turning.JPG http://www.woodfast.com.au/web_images/re%20size%20three%20point%20steady.JPG
Rear Turning Attachment Three Point Steady





0130121 Rear Turning Attachment

(Max. diameter of swing 760mm) $190.00


0130162 Three Point Steady $273.90


* All prices inclusive of GST



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Standard Equipment


82 mm Face Plate
25 mm Spur Drive Centre
Revolving Cup Centre
150 mm Straight Toolrest
300 mm Straight Toolrest
Rear Handwheel Brake
Face Plate Spanner
Centre Knock Out Bar

* Schools Models:
Rear Spindle Guard in Lieu of Rear Handwheel Brake

Portable switched locked down $POA

Padlockable isolator fitted $POA

</td></tr></tbody></table>

Paul39
8th September 2010, 07:01 AM
Pat,

One like this one:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f8/142620d1280056102t-woodfast-lathes-pictures-requested-23062010.jpg (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f8/142620d1280056102-woodfast-lathes-pictures-requested-23062010.jpg)

Photo stolen from Groggy's post

Jim Carroll
8th September 2010, 09:15 AM
Paul they are a strong little lathe, and if you had the choice between a new one and one like you have seen then you would buy the 410.

Just get the motor changed over to variable speed setup and you will have a great lathe.

You will be able to tell how old it is by the markings on the ways of the bed at the tail stock end.

powderpost
8th September 2010, 10:32 AM
I have three Woodfast lathes and wouldn't part with them. Fit a variable speed setup and you can't go wrong.
Jim

hughie
8th September 2010, 10:50 AM
Paul they are a strong little lathe, and if you had the choice between a new one and one like you have seen then you would buy the 410.

I agree I have a 400 and I'm in the process of changing it over to variable speed and increasing the motor to 1hp from its previous .5hp

I have thought about packing the tailstock and headstock to increase swing etc by about 50mm. But lack a source of packing at a reasonable price :C

Edwards
8th September 2010, 07:28 PM
I briefly looked at a Woodfast 410 this morning. 20 inch swing, short bed, on sheet metal cabinet.

It had 4 step pulleys with the multi V belt, a small black variable speed dial, and ran on 230 volts.

I was impressed with the solid look of it.

I understand it is no longer made by the original mfg. and that Rikon bought the rights.

I am in LUST, any information is helpful, good, bad, or indifferent. Comments from owners / users especially welcome.

I'm going back tomorrow in work clothes to crawl around and dig around in its guts.

Anything I should look for?

Thanks.

Good solid lathe.
Originally imported into USA by Craft Supplies USA who may be contacted otherwise suggest you might contact manufacturer direct for further info.
Cheers
Edwards

GC
8th September 2010, 09:27 PM
Good lathe!
I nearly bought one 2 years ago for $2500 on special from Carbatec.

A bargain, but then someone spent the cash other places....


GC

stuffy
8th September 2010, 10:32 PM
I have thought about packing the tailstock and headstock to increase swing etc by about 50mm. But lack a source of packing at a reasonable price :C

I'm in the same boat, Hughie. What would you use for packing? Would mild steel under the tailstock cause problems with the bed? What about tool rest height?

Sorry to go OT. :-
:)

Paul39
9th September 2010, 05:31 AM
I went back today and found it is a 1995, with Leeson 1.5 PM DC motor, sold by Craft Supplies.

I ran it at the fastest speed for about 5 minutes. The big bearing toward the spindle nose was cool as a cucumber, and the one next to the hand wheel got just a bit warm.

I put a knock out bar on the bearing housings and stuck it in my ear, they sounded smooth and even. No crunching and grinding.

The variable speed control worked smoothly. All bare metal is slightly rusty and the lathe had not been used recently. All the levers & tailstock screw were movable, and faceplate came off the spindle nose, The hand wheel was stuck but I did not want to use force on something not my own. I'm not likely to use it for outboard turning with 20 inch swing over the bed.

The metal cabinet is indeed noisy, I can glue rubber membrane roofing to the inside to change the resonant frequency. My Hegner 175 with square tubing bed rings like a bell, so a bit of noise is nothing new.

The spur drive tip and the live center point lined up vertically, but the tailstock center was about 1 - 3 mm to the rear. This may get better after cleaning, or a bit of filing on the front of the tailstock to bed fit will bring it forward.

What would you folks think this is worth in $AU?

I left an offer and will hear by this evening. Of course these things come available when one does not have $ in the crazy money fund. I blew my fund last fall at an auction where I bought a 60 year old band saw and a 50 year old drill press for about 1/2 the price of modern Chinese.

Manufacturers were not afraid to put a bit of cast iron in the mold back then.

Thanks for all the advice, I'll let you know how it turns out.

hughie
9th September 2010, 10:40 AM
I'm in the same boat, Hughie. What would you use for packing? Would mild steel under the tailstock cause problems with the bed? What about tool rest height?



Yeah would have to extent tool post height. I dont think the MS would cause any major problems. I tend lube my bed from time to time with dry graphite... :U a carpenters pencil, so I dont see any majors there. Its the 50mm MS plate is more the problem. :C






sorry Paul for the hijack

NeilS
9th September 2010, 11:46 AM
Sold my 20 yr old Woodfast (alignment was spot on) with 1HP motor + quality VS upgrade + outboard turning rig for A$1200.

.....

Paul39
10th September 2010, 05:14 AM
The Woodfast 410 was consigned at a hardware store for $899, low because of cosmetic appearance. 30 day warranty. After research and council from this forum, running it, and carefully checking, I offered $800, as is, where is. Owner countered $850 as is.

After yet another night of flopping around, and yes and no in my mind, I took the plastic and bought it this morning, $915.88 with tax, and three miles from the house. No agony with mistreatment by the shipping company.

I have all the small bits, tailstock, banjo, etc. home, and will disassemble and pick up the the rest tomorrow. The lathe needs to be taken to the back of my somewhat rough mulched lot to the basement, so it is easier in pieces. I will also clean, remove rust, and paint as I reassemble.

Photos to follow.

Thanks to all of you for the information, support, and advice.

Paul39
10th September 2010, 12:30 PM
I brought the small parts home this morning, and by afternoon decided I could not wait until tomorrow to get the rest.

The live center is stuck in the tailstock, and the hand wheel is stuck on the spindle. Both liberally soaked with penetrating oil. Tomorrow we try tap tapping, and then heat, more oil, more tapping.

Under the rust on the bed are what appear to be the original machining marks. The bed has a few nicks and a few craters with raised edges which filed flat. I am most impressed with the webbed cast iron bed. It is all I can do to lift the bed and headstock.

The variable speed 1.5 HP Leeson DC motor looks like an addition, as the control box is mounted on a piece of unpainted new looking wood.

There is a nice collection of extra bits, including a home made curved bowl rest, and a very sturdy live center.

The stand, called by some a "sheet metal" stand is I think 3/16 steel welded into a single rigid piece. It is all I can do to tilt it, put blocks under and slide it. Once I got it to the mulched part of the yard, I rolled it end for end to the side of the house. It awaits tomorrow under a tarp when I will make room in the basement and hopefully turn something BIG.

Does anyone know what the piece with the notched edge is used for?

If any of you want photos of the under, inside, or decals, let me know and I'll take them before I put it together.

RETIRED
10th September 2010, 01:00 PM
Does anyone know what the piece with the notched edge is used for?I don't think it lives with the lathe.

It looks like a fence off a sander or linisher.

Good haul Paul.:D

The Leeson is an addition.

The tail stock centre should be self ejecting when you wind the handle right back.

The best way to remove would be to put load on it by pulling it right in and then use a knockout bar through the spindle.

Paul39
10th September 2010, 01:28 PM
The tail stock centre should be self ejecting when you wind the handle right back.

The best way to remove would be to put load on it by pulling it right in and then use a knockout bar through the spindle.

My Hegner works that way, but the Woodfast stops with about 1 cm. between the shoulder of the live center and the end of the tailstock spindle.

I took the spindle out of the tailstock housing and held it in my hand and beat the daylights out of a knockout bar through the middle. No movement. After an overnight soak with penetrating oil, I'll try again, and then gentle heat & more beating. Then dry ice on the center, heat on the spindle, and more beating.

I don't like bashing on cast iron, even something as stout as the Woodfast.

Thanks for what you do here. I enjoy your posts.

Groggy
10th September 2010, 11:40 PM
Paul, sorry for the late reply. I have sent you an email and have also discussed this with someone else, the response may take a few days as the lathes I have are not at home.

Paul39
11th September 2010, 03:27 AM
This morning I took out the tailstock spindle and heated the end where the center was stuck. I held it in my hand and gave three sharp whacks with a hammer on the knockout bar. It popped out on the third whack. The Morse taper was quite rusted and dry as the penetrating oil had only soaked in about 1/4 in. on both ends.

After carefully inspecting the threads on the handwheel I determined that it was indeed LH. I heated the outside of the threaded part with the torch and whacked the wrench on the handwheel flat with a knockout bar sharply while holding a wrench on the spindle nut.

Again three whacks did it. The wrench flying off each time.

Photos of outboard spindle, and rusty live center and tailstock spindle

Paul39
11th September 2010, 01:28 PM
I flopped the cabinet end over end to the back yard and put the lathe together, mounted a half dry chunk of walnut that had been too much for the Hegner 175, to the point that it made me anxious.

The Hegner switch is behind the the headstock, and I had a hunk of wet wood flailing around on a lathe that was trying to jump off the bench. The problem solved itself when the lathe spat the timber out and I shut off the lathe.

I screwed the more or less flat part of the evil timber to the faceplate of the Woodfast, ran up the tailstock, put the belt on the slowest position, set the speed to 20, and punched go.

It leisurely started rotating, gently rocking the lathe sitting on soft mulched ground.

I ran it up faster, knocked off some of the unbalanced parts, went to second speed, cut off more, went to third and finished roughing the outside and started on hollowing.

It began to sprinkle so I took a photo and covered everything.

I am pleased, the bearings barely got warm, the stability is wonderful for that size timber, the banjo and tailstock controls easy to use and lock firmly. The spindle height is at my elbow, but I might place the cabinet on 4 X 4s mounted crossways to make the footprint wider and bring the spindle height up to the Hegner's.

The control does buzz, and the cabinet does amplify the noise. I am partially deaf, so that probably reduces the annoyance. I will probably remount the control box on rubber mounts, as it will be louder inside the basement.

I am very pleased, Woodfast made a good lathe. There is no substitute for mass and horsepower. I see why likes big machines and tools.

When I was making interupted cuts at slow speed, if I advanced the tool a bit fast and got a good thump the controller would pause and occasionally stop the motor.

I'll start another thread about that, as well as some thoughts on packing or raising blocks.

The white box on the lower right of the lathe is a remote on / off switch, quite handy.

Harry72
11th September 2010, 07:48 PM
I don't think it lives with the lathe.

It looks like a fence off a sander or linisher.

Good haul Paul.:D



Definitely a linisher fence.

Paul39
30th November 2012, 11:44 AM
After digging out the corner of my dirt basement, running in a bunch of wiring for lathe, and outlets for power sander, lights, Dremel tool die grinder, etc. I FINALLY got it in place about a week ago.

I am so pleased with it. It is so smooth and absorbs out of balance pieces without complaint. I have been roughing out 3 - 4 pieces a day and have a couple sanded and first coats of finish on.

Since I bought the lathe I bought a Oneway Stronghold chuck with the #3 jaws, got a used Thompson 5/8 in. bowl gouge and a barely used Easy Finisher, which I use as a rougher and hollowing tool.

The combination of bigger lathe, chuck, and tools makes life easier with the bigger bowls. Even if I am not using the full 20 inches for a bowl, it is nice to just stick an odd shaped piece in there, knock off the protruding chunks, make a spigot, chuck it and rough a bowl.

My other lathe is a Hegner 175 with 350mm swing. It was made in Germany and cost more new than the Woodfast new. The Woodfast is a much better lathe. The Hegner bed is constructed of welded square tubing which flexes when a large out of balance piece is put on. The long bed gets in the way of doing the inside of bowls. The tailstock on the Woodfast can be slipped off the end and placed on a bench making good access to the inside of a bowl.

See pic for Big Lathe, Big Chuck, Big Tools. (For me, I'm not in 's league yet.)

jimbur
30th November 2012, 01:06 PM
Enjoyed re-reading the posts.:U

rsser
30th November 2012, 03:10 PM
Same here.

Good to read about a resurrection.

Oldies are goodies - I keep telling myself :rolleyes:

artme
30th November 2012, 05:56 PM
You are a lucky bugger Paul!

Hope you have years of fun!!!:2tsup::):2tsup::)

Mobyturns
30th November 2012, 09:36 PM
Nice lathe, just like a 908 on steroids. Don't think you will be dissapointed with it. Did you identify year of manufacture? Usually stamped on the outboard end of the bed. I fitted the Woodfast VS off the new 910'2 to my old 908 - great machine.

powderpost
30th November 2012, 09:50 PM
I have the long bed version (900mm between centres), bought in 1989. An excellent machine that has given me no trouble. It will probably only give you another 50 years of good service. :)
Jim

hughie
1st December 2012, 07:47 AM
Paul, congratulations on your re-build :2tsup: Its look superb I only wish my 400 was a 410 :C as I would have never thought of moving it on. The older Woodfasts are great lathes well what ever time and effort it takes to get them back in top condition.

NeilS
1st December 2012, 09:42 AM
Great rehab there, Paul.

My kind of lathe. Definitely a keeper.

I expect you would also love the VS unit that Woodfast retrofitted to those earlier lathes. Mine went down to 30rpm. But, not sure how they would go on your voltages, etc.

242928

Paul39
1st December 2012, 11:29 AM
Nice lathe, just like a 908 on steroids. Don't think you will be dissapointed with it. Did you identify year of manufacture? Usually stamped on the outboard end of the bed. I fitted the Woodfast VS off the new 910'2 to my old 908 - great machine.

The build date on mine is 6 - 95.

It has a Leeson 1.5 HP DC variable speed motor and controller that was added by Craft Supplies USA. The controller is only supplying 1/2 the voltage so it acts as though it has a 3/4 HP motor.

I recently asked Craft Supplies if they had a schematic. The gentleman who was doing the conversions for them has passed on, but CS gave me the name of the people who built the controller.

They are still in business, and looking at their web site I find a controller of the proper voltage and HP for $112.

I am first going to remove mine and see if there is anything obvious, most likely a blown silicon controlled rectifier, which should cost about $10 to replace.

Barden Koenig
6th March 2013, 02:41 AM
It's like a fairy tale ending for woodturners! I'm coming up on the first anniversary of getting my used woodfast m410 and have enjoyed every minute of it.

I came upon some helpful information in my research of the lathe that I think should be made available to those looking at these lathes as well.

One point of confusion that often arises is regarding the nature of the variable speed versions of this lathe that Craft Supplies created. They made DC versions (direct current) and AC versions (alternating current).

An easy way to tell if your variable speed woodfast lathe (if still stock from craft supplies) is AC or DC is by looking at the foot at the headstock end. If it's flared to the floor (trapezoid) then it's AC. If it's straight to the floor, then it's DC. The drive for the AC unit is in the flared foot. I believe that information came from Roger at Craft Supplies as well. He has been very helpful every time I have bothered him for info on a lathe I didn't buy from him. The AC version will give you more torque at lower speeds, run quieter, and recover from load changes faster. These differences are seen most when roughing the exceptionally large pieces. That's my own addition from experience with both versions of variable speed lathes.

Also, I noticed someone saying the tailstock should eject the live center. On mine it does not, but you're beyond that detail now. I just wanted it to be written for posterity. I am considering changing the bearings on mine just to start fresh again. For those interested, mine has four bearings made by NSK: 62mm outer diameter, 35mm inner diameter, and 14mm wide (model 6007v). If you're changing yours, don't take my word for it. Go look at the shielding on your bearings for a model number.

Lastly, if you find yourself in need of the manual I have attached a pdf version of mine.

Hope it helps!

Colin62
6th March 2013, 09:26 PM
The AC version will give you more torque at lower speeds

I've always understood that DC motors have better torque at low RPM, (which is why they use DC for locomotives).

Does the variable speed control change the torque characteristics of an AC motor?

Barden Koenig
7th March 2013, 04:12 AM
You are right that DC has been used in locomotives for its low rpm torque, but that is in comparison to the combustion engine and I've read information indicating that this system is being replaced with AC due to advances in drives and their lowering cost. Torque in a DC motor gets rather complicated and relies heavily on the build of the motor because to retain torque at low speeds (low voltages) the current must increase (power = voltage times current). And an increase in current pushes heat limitations in the motor windings. More on that here: Torque and speed of a DC motor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_and_speed_of_a_DC_motor) . Nobody's really wrong in the discussion. It has more to do with keeping up with technology and market advances. It used to be that a DC controller was simpler and less expensive than AC, but a DC motor costs much more than the AC equivalent. Now the DC controller is still simpler, but costs similar, if not more than, the AC controller and AC motors still cost less. There is also increased efficiency in the AC systems.

Personally, I find the biggest vote towards AC in the comparison of response to load changes. Every DC system I've interacted with has not impressed me in this regard, but AC systems with well-designed drives handle this very well. As woodturners, we dive in and out of cuts all the time and on my older DC system the speed would slow at the introduction of an aggressive cut and when I backed off the speed would surge till it settled out. This was especially dangerous if I had an out-of-balance piece on the lathe, had selected the fastest speed that felt safe, and was near the piece as its speed surged beyond. Admittedly this wasn't the best of DC systems, but those characteristics are common in some magnitude.

Pardon my longwindedness. Hope it's helpful

Colin62
7th March 2013, 10:01 PM
Pardon my longwindedness. Hope it's helpful

Very helpful, thanks :)

My knowledge on electric motor control systems (which was never comprehensive) is at least 25 years out of date, so I appreciate the info.