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Ed wood
26th Sep 2010, 10:57 PM
Hi all,
I am looking for some tips on using Organoils Hard Burnishing Oil.
I have seen the Organoil Guys at the Wood Show in Perth but they always seem to demonstrate on a piece of Camphor rather than our local and much harder Jarrah.
Which brings me to the conclusion that it will take a lot longer.
I once attempted the process on a Jarrah table top .
I sanded to 400 grit dry then applied oil and let soak in for about 30 mins , then applied more oil wiping off excess and started to wet sand , forming a fairly thick putty like paste.
1) I got confused about the thickness of the slurry , i.e. is it meant to be like peanut butter or maple syrup?The sander started bouncing around so I gather it was too thick?
2) They say if you need to apply more oil apply it to the pad and also to clean the pad down "if necessary" with more oil.
3) They suggest wiping the table down of any "excess slurry" after each grit with a "public toilet " type of paper towel which seemed to take a long time on a 2.4 x 1.1 table top, and this is suggested after each grade of sandpaper use.

I got to 600 grit and the process did not seem to be working for me so i just left it there and was not that happy with the finished product.
Anyway bla bla bla ..
I am just trying to obtain a supersmooth resilient finish that almost looks like lacquer but is not.
I saw a sample of Sheoak done to 2000 grit with Org Hard Burn oil and it looked fantastic.

Any tips from experienced users applying to large areas like table tops greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Ed

Eldanos of KDM
27th Sep 2010, 01:02 AM
I just did a kitchen benchtop in red gum with it and have made a coffee table out of red ironbark too using the same finish. Both times I have followed the instructions for the burnishing technique thoroughly and completely; both times I have also been less than ecstatic with the result. Used it a few times on the lathe, however, and it was perfect for that..
I have also seen many threads on these forums asking questions about the product regarding the finish. I personally think it must be more suitable for slightly softer timbers- That or we are expecting too much. I sanded the kitchen top to 1800 which is absolute overkill but I thought undersanding must have been my problem in the past- Burnished the you know what out of it for hours...Same dull finish after buffing with an auto polisher for ages.

So here's my theory- I reckon it's best for;
1) lathework-
2) Softer timbers that have a fine, tight grain-
3) Smaller surfaces-

I wasted probably about 8-10 hours getting a finish on a kitchen that may now be food safe, but looks a bit dull. Plenty of colour- No shine.

I really do think it's a good product though- It's based on Tung oil which is a great finishing oil- Just might not be good for Large hardwood tops where a really special finish is desired. For a dining table I'd probably used poly.

LGS
27th Sep 2010, 07:33 AM
I beg to differ.

Hard Burnishing oil works well on Red Gum,Blackwood and African Mahogany as you can see from the attached pics of a Red Gum Entertainment unit (WIP), a 2.1 x 1.4m Blackwood Dining table and a Kitchen Bench
I used the oil as per the instructions on the can and was not happy with the result. I spoke to the guy at Organoil, who gave me a different story and the result was better, but not perfect. I now use my own method.
1 Sand the piece to 400g then clean it with Mineral turps and allow it to dry.
2. Flood the work piece with HBO and allow to sit for between 10 and 30 minutes.
3. Begin wet sanding, using the same 400g pad you used for dry sanding. Don't wipe off the slurry
4. Continue up through the grits for as high as you can. I use a Festool ETS150 ROS and the following grits
400, 800, 1200, 1500 and then 2000 and 4000g (The last two are Platin 2 pads, which will fit any 150mm diameter ROS and will probably work OK on smaller units also regardless of make as they have no holes and you shouldn't be using vacuum while wet sanding.)
5. Give the work piece a rub down with a clean cotton cloth and leave it alone. It will dry to a beautiful finish.

Regards,

Rob

groeneaj
27th Sep 2010, 07:39 AM
I'll be watching this thread as I intend to use organoil hard burnishing oil on a table top.

Could you use a swansdown mop at the end of the process? Also do you suggest buffing the table up a couple of days later ?

Eldanos of KDM
27th Sep 2010, 08:06 AM
I beg to differ.

Hard Burnishing oil works well on Red Gum,Blackwood and African Mahogany as you can see from the attached pics of a Red Gum Entertainment unit (WIP), a 2.1 x 1.4m Blackwood Dining table and a Kitchen Bench
I used the oil as per the instructions on the can and was not happy with the result. I spoke to the guy at Organoil, who gave me a different story and the result was better, but not perfect. I now use my own method.
1 Sand the piece to 400g then clean it with Mineral turps and allow it to dry.
2. Flood the work piece with HBO and allow to sit for between 10 and 30 minutes.
3. Begin wet sanding, using the same 400g pad you used for dry sanding. Don't wipe off the slurry
4. Continue up through the grits for as high as you can. I use a Festool ETS150 ROS and the following grits
400, 800, 1200, 1500 and then 2000 and 4000g (The last two are Platin 2 pads, which will fit any 150mm diameter ROS and will probably work OK on smaller units also regardless of make as they have no holes and you shouldn't be using vacuum while wet sanding.)
5. Give the work piece a rub down with a clean cotton cloth and leave it alone. It will dry to a beautiful finish.

Regards,

Rob

Well cool I'll give it a try then:) Timber I've used both times a little rouger than that too, but yours turned out great!

Ed wood
27th Sep 2010, 11:14 AM
Hi all ,
I do know its possible to get a fantastic finish as I saw a piece of Sheoak (Allocasurina fraseriana) that had been burnished/sanded to 2000 grit and it reflected the light like a well done lacquer finish.
It`s all about filling the grain I guess.

LGS - your results look good , a few Q`s

1) what consistency is your slurry ?
2) you keep the slurry on until the end of the process?
3) on the dining table when you go to 800,1200,1500,2000,4000 do you just use one pad of each grade for such a large piece or several?
4) how long roughly would you spend sanding each grade?
5) is the purpose of the mineral turps to assist the oil penetration or simply clean?
6) do you ever add more oil to "clean" the slurry off the pad if it gets too clogged or at any other stage?

Thanks mate
Kind Regards
Ed

groeneaj
27th Sep 2010, 12:57 PM
Good questions Ed, i'm looking forward to the answers:D

LGS
27th Sep 2010, 01:23 PM
Hi all ,
I do know its possible to get a fantastic finish as I saw a piece of Sheoak (Allocasurina fraseriana) that had been burnished/sanded to 2000 grit and it reflected the light like a well done lacquer finish.
It`s all about filling the grain I guess.

LGS - your results look good , a few Q`s

1) what consistency is your slurry ?
2) you keep the slurry on until the end of the process?
3) on the dining table when you go to 800,1200,1500,2000,4000 do you just use one pad of each grade for such a large piece or several?
4) how long roughly would you spend sanding each grade?
5) is the purpose of the mineral turps to assist the oil penetration or simply clean?
6) do you ever add more oil to "clean" the slurry off the pad if it gets too clogged or at any other stage?

Thanks mate
Kind Regards
Ed

OK,

1. The slurry is about the consistency of a commercial Curry paste.

2. I do not remove the slurry as I proceed up through the grits/ If you have a lot of thick slurry, you probably added too much oil first up.

3. I use one pad of each grit usually for a whole project. That includes legs and rails.

4. For the dry sand, I would sand with each grit until any marks from the previous grit are gone. Typically I would use 100, 120, 150, 180, 240 and 400g. I suppose I'd use each pad for about 2-3 minutes max.

For the wet sand, I move along the piece with the grain and work in sections. I would go up and back about 4 times on each section. This, I suppose, also equates to about 2-3 minutes for each grit.

5. The turps is to remove grease and loose sand and dust residue.

6. I don't find that the pads get that clogged, except maybe the 400 and 800g. Again, watch how much oil you use first up.
The Platin 2 pads are spongy and remove a lot of the slurry in the last sand, However, you should be able to see a brilliant finish after the 1200 grit. I just like the added resilience and shine the 2000 and 4000 add.

Remember that the timber is going to look shocking until you get to the higher grits, when you should be able to see good reflection of the surface, through the slurry.
Another good thing about HBO is that you can use Spray and Wipe to clean the table without affecting the finish. You can also put warm/hottish stuff on it with no real damage.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

groeneaj
27th Sep 2010, 02:05 PM
Is any mineral turp ok, or a paticular one is better than the other?

LGS
27th Sep 2010, 02:14 PM
Is any mineral turp ok, or a paticular one is better than the other?
I get mine from Mitre 10, but no, there is no trick to the turps.
If you put in the hard yards, you'll get a good finish

Ed wood
28th Sep 2010, 08:50 AM
Thanks for all the info Rob,
I will give it a go when I have finished my next table
Regards
Ed

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