Hhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeellllllllllppppppppp

[Nai84]

Hi Everyone

I was wondering if some one could help me, I have just started on another bowl, I mounted the blank using my face plate tuned the out side and tennon for the chuck, stuck it in the chuck and began on the inside but I stop coz the out side was not spining ture it seemed like it was off center but yet it was fine before when it was mounted on the faceplate am I doing something wrong or am I just retarted :?

Cheers Nai84

[jefferson]

Before you take your work piece off the screw chuck, you must check that your chuck is running true.

If it doesn't, you've done something wrong with your tenon / foot.

Depending on the size of the bowl, your best bet is to jam chuck the bowl and re-do the tenon accurately.

Let us know how you get on and good luck.

[Pat]

Nai, when you center the blank on the faceplate, do you mark the center with a hole punch? This allows you to loosely place the spigot in the chuck and to use the center in the tailstock to center the piece in the jaws.

[RETIRED]

How long was the tenon? What sort of chuck?

[HazzaB]

Hey Nai,

Have you tried what the others have said ??? did it work ???? if you are having problems give me a call or come over ( with the offending bowl) and we'll have a look.

HazzaB

[ubeaut]

Could also be a weight problem if it's green or semi green timber. If stored on edge and not on the flat then the moisture can go to one side of the blank and give the same impression as being out of round because of the stress exerted under speed.

Only other likely problem is as already mentioned out of alignment chuck or drive shaft. It's pretty hard to turn something out of round if everything is running true.

:U

[wheelinround]

Ian when mounted on the faceplate it would have been secured well, when you have turned it to use the chuck it maybe that it was not sitting flat on the face plate. This often happens depending on the shape of the wood to start with.

Also when you have put it in the chuck it may have slipped now out of grip of the chuck.

Have you formed a Dovetail tenon or just a straight side. If it is in compression then the tenon should / into the centre if outward grip then the V of the tenon should be the sloping towards the outside \

[Willy Nelson]

Hello Nai
I live in PK, so if you continue to have problems, give me a yell
I reckon it could be
1. Green timber which has moved after you have started turning, tension or compression has changed, or moisture loss has occurred due the the weather change we have had.
2. You may need to readjust the clamping position. I get this at times, just back off the chuck, tap with a hammer and see it you can get it true. Use a dial indicator if you have one to assist.
3. Some times the tenon has an extension of wood which you haven't turned away which interferes with the operation of the chuck, or your tenon is too long and the jaws do not mate up on the two dimensions.
4. Check you lathe alighnment
Hope you finf the problem,
Any probs, give me a yell
Cheers
Willy
Jarrahland

[Sawdust Maker]

Yeah I've had that problem as well, Nai
I put my experience down to PWET (poor woodturner execution syndrome) :doh:

[Paul39]

Nai,

With the 20 or so bowls I have made using a Oneway chuck I have yet to have one run perfectly true when turned around. Some run better than others.

I usually start larger bowls by making a more or less flat side that will be the top. I center that on the 9 inch faceplate and run the tailstock up to the bottom, jamming the blank to the faceplate.

I make a flat part on the bottom, cutting up to the point of the live center, then advance the center, again flatten & advance center until I have solid wood. I carefully make a very slight concave bottom, leaving a tiny spigot where the live center point enters the wood for a reference.

I rough the outside, then cut a recess or spigot for the chuck to grip, leaving a flat space inside the recess or outside the spigot for the front of the jaws to bear against.

I turn the piece and put the bottom in the chuck and slightly tighten. I then bring up the tailstock and put light pressure on the blank. I hold the blank and slightly twist the chuck about 1/8 turn, tighten the chuck a bit, advance the tailstock a bit, and firmly tighten the chuck.

I firmly advance the live center into the top of the bowl and hollow, leaving a spigot 1 inch at the top going to around 2 inches at the bottom.

I remove it from the lathe and wrap in newspaper, slather with linseed oil, sometimes let it sit on the shelf, sometimes microwave, depending on how wet or dry the timber is when I start.

No matter what the wood does I have a center reference point on the bottom. The spigot on the inside usually curves, so when I rechuck the bottom I carefully flatten the top of the spigot and then advance the point of the live center while the bowl is turning. I like larger pieces held with the tailstock as well as the chuck as long as possible.

When the timber has quit moving I'll do my final cutting, sanding and finishing on the outside, do as much finish cutting on the inside as possible, firmly tighten the chuck, back out the tailstock, CAREFULLY cut down the spigot, finish cut, sand, and finish.

When that is done I remove the bowl from the chuck, hand sand any marks on the spigot or recess, put on one coat of finish, dry, sign and number, two more coats of finish, and done.

Most of my timber is not completely dry when I rough. Even the piece of Red Oak that had been in the house for 5 years moved all over the place over a period of weeks when I started turning it. I made the tendon in the bottom and left a spigot for the tailstock when I roughed the inside.

It turned oval and cracked on the inside. Outside was fine. I turned it back round and filled the cracks with its own sanding dust and CA glue.

It finally stopped moving after about 5 months.

I am very careful cutting a flat face and nice clean gripping surfaces for the chuck, but wood does move.

[Nai84]

Hey Everyone

Wow :oo: Thanks for all the reason why it might be running wild on me I will have a closer look and I will let you know how I go with the turning of it. The wood I am using is jarrah and is not 100% dry I think its semi season is it ok to turn it while it is like this or should I let it dry a bit more I have sealed the other peices wood using a ca glue and water mix so i dosent dry out I have another 8 peice sitting in my shed should I just wait until they are dry and how long will it take from them to dry out

Cheers Ian

PS
thanks for the help guys:2tsup:

PSS
how should I remount it back to the lathe any suggestions

[Manuka Jock]

Nai ,
it happens to all of us for all the reasons that the guys said .
Sometimes we just have to get the thing mounted on the lathe as true as we can , and then tidy up the outside a bit before carving out the middle.
As long as you are not trying for a 1mm thin walled piece , the slight out of round will not be an issue.
There are many excellent bowls out there that will wobble their socks off it they were ever remounted on a lathe.
We know , the public don't .
Its' a turner's secret . :whistling1:

[Nai84]

Hey Manuka Jock

Ok the secret is safe with me oh wise one:D and thanks for all the help everyone but I have another problem with the blank now it has cracked even thoe I have kept it wraped up what should I do now is the blank saveable or is it no good as a bowl now :?

Cheers Nai

[stuffy]

Hi Ian,

I read a quote somewhere recently that said something like

"if it doesn't hold soup it's art".
:D

[Nai84]

Hey stuffy

Long time no talk :toot: So I take it that I should try turning it and see what happens then and if it works out all good and if not well leason learnt then:hpydans2:

Nai

[stuffy]

:no:
If it's badly cracked it might explode on the lathe.
If the cracks are just on the surface you should get away with it.
Can you strengthen it with CA?

[ubeaut]

On the storage of the other blanks. Make sure they are laid flat and not stored on edge as the on edge thing is what can throw them out of balance.

Cheers - Neil

[Paul39]

Hey Everyone

The wood I am using is jarrah and is not 100% dry I think its semi season is it ok to turn it while it is like this or should I let it dry a bit more I have sealed the other peices wood using a ca glue and water mix so i dosent dry out I have another 8 peice sitting in my shed should I just wait until they are dry and how long will it take from them to dry out

Cheers Ian

PS
thanks for the help guys:2tsup:

PSS
how should I remount it back to the lathe any suggestions

Ian,

The CA glue and water sounds a bit expensive. I like free latex paint. One can also buy "oops" paint at paint stores. There are proprietary sealers, but when I asked a sales person in a fancy woodworking store if it worked any better than latex, he admitted that he used latex for his own turnings.

Around here drying time is about one year per inch of thickness.

This is why many people rough out a bowl with thickness of 10 to 20% of the diameter, paint it, oil it, boil it, wrap in newspaper, put in a brown bag, bury in shavings, soak in dishwashing liquid and water, or whatever.

My experience with many of the above is that some crack, some don't.

If you can get a good grip with the the chuck on your not so round bowl, chuck it up and run the tailstock center in to hold it better. If the bowl is too deep, turn a chunk of scrap about the size of a coffee mug with a hole to fit over your live center and the other side slightly rounded to fit up in the bowl.

Running at slow speed, round off the outside, re cut the rim, turn it around, center as best you can on a faceplate, run the tailstock up to the bottom, make a new recess or spigot for the chuck, turn around again, and keep going.

If your faceplate is too small, discarded cheap furniture is sometimes made with MDF - medium density fiberboard. Screw that to the faceplate, cut a grove in it to put the rim of the bowl in, run up the tailstock, and have a go.

You may want to wrap it in 4 to 6 layers of newspaper and let it sit for a month or two until it quits moving so much.

Finish it as best you can, even if it turns out to be one of your kids playthings.

The practice is good and you will learn how to pull the fat out of the fire with a not too expensive piece of timber.

The MDF on faceplate also works for finishing up the bottom of bowls. I cut the groove a tiny bit large, lay a piece of cloth over the faceplate, push the bowl in, use a pad over the live center, trim the cloth close to the rim and finish. That leaves less to hand finish.

[Nai84]

Hey Guys

Well I have attached a pic of those :censored2: cracks that are making second guess if I should turn it or not even thoe it is warped up. My other blanks are being stored flat side down and have been sealed. Paul39 once again thankyou for that abundence of info it will go to good use I have read alot of stuff about sealers and I found a mix for the glue base on that I have used on my other blanks, I have also read a lot of things saying that latex paint doesnt work as well as other sealers but if you use it then it must work so I might give it ago as I work in a hardware store

Cheers Nai

[Paul39]

Ian,

Found no photos on your last post.

If the CA & water sealer is working and you don't mind the cost, don't change.

I heat with wood, so am always picking up stuff from the side of the road after wind storms or when folks clean up the yard. I set aside choice bits, crotches, twisted parts, roots, etc. for turning.

I find that if I do nothing but split the log down the middle and put it in a pile bark side up for several years, some crack and some don't. If i rough out bowls from fresh cut timber and treat with all the various potions and techniques, some crack and some don't.

As I have so much to choose from, losing half doesn't bother me.

For all of you reading, if you have a treatment or technique that works, don't change.

I expect every turner has his or her favorite way or ways of drying timber.

[Nai84]

Hey Paul39

I havent got a fav way of drying yet so I will try the latex paint and see how it goes I am willing to try new things :D as for the photos I dont know what happened so I have reposted them of thoes narsty cracks and I am willing to take all suggestion on board from any wood turner that has the experience and knowledge :D

Cheers Nai

[Paul39]

Ian,

The photos worked this time. What you have is normal cracking of the whole log. I have a piece I roughed a couple weeks ago of fresh cut cherry that is doing the same thing. I love the bulls eye design that comes with turning the whole log sideways.

If you can find a piece of timber that is 3 or more times longer than the diameter that has been drying for years, and cut out a center part, that is not likely to crack. A 10 year old windfall that has been hung on another tree would be perfect. You might have some bug holes and spalting as a bonus.

When I bring home timber in the round, in a day or so slight cracks appear just like the ones on your piece radiating from the pith, or center. I use a wedge and sledge hammer and split the log in half where it has started, stack and let dry for a while. Splitting where it has started relieves the stress, and hopefully will not crack elsewhere.

With your piece, it is not likely to explode if you turn at slow speed. If you are able to chuck it, thin it down a bit to 15 % or so of wall thickness to diameter, slather it with linseed oil, wrap it in news paper, and set aside for several months.

After it has finished cracking and moving around, turn it to the point of sanding and fill the cracks with coffee grounds mixed with epoxy or CA, or any of your favorite strong glues. Pack it in deep with a junk teaspoon on the inside and a stiff putty knife or a shortened junk table knife on the outside. Sand and finish. Even if you consider the piece a failure when finished, the practice is good. Part of the learning process.

I have used copy toner and epoxy for a strong black filler. Let the crack be a part of the design.

Here is a wonderful treatise on timber and figure.

http://quest42.co.uk/woodwork/pdf/Log_to_turn_Object.pdf

From: Chas Jones, Hobby Turner (http://quest42.co.uk/woodwork/html/projects.html)

Lots of information here. Someone on this forum posted the reference.

[Nai84]

Hey Paul39 Once again an abundence of info for me and i am loving it i will do what you have suggested with the blank and when i do finish it i will post it for everyone to see weather it turns out or not thanks heaps for all your help on the issue :2tsup: cheers nai

[bookend]

Stunning pieces can come from timber that includes the pith but expect disappointment, cracks and disintegrating timber. If you get anything useable, that is a bonus.

If you feel confident to turn, just try to stand out of the firing line of the spinning timber and don't turn at a fast speed. Cracked timber is not safe to turn. Make sure you have all of your safety gear.

[wheelinround]

Ian take a look at this piece i did some time ago IMG_2151 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wheelinround/2743185781/)

[Nai84]

hey bookend i will do just that and see how i go and i will let you see the finished piece and i always wear my safety gear. Hey wheelinround that piece is fantastic i love it cheers nai

[Grumpy John]

Could also be a weight problem if it's green or semi green timber. If stored on edge and not on the flat then the moisture can go to one side of the blank and give the same impression as being out of round because of the stress exerted under speed.

........................................
:U

Thanks for this piece of information Neil, it answered a question I posted earlier today.

Following this logic if you store logs in the vertical position it would make sense when turning to put the end that was on the floor at the headstock end of the lathe to further reduce vibration.

[Nai84]

Hey Grumpy John

Thanks for words of wisdom I have stored all my logs flat side down :2tsup:

Cheers Nai

[rsser]

Even if a lump is dry and well handled, you'll find that shaping the outside can relieve stresses in the wood which results in slight warping.

[Nai84]

Hey rsser

Thanks for that it is helpfull to know everything that thier is to do with wood :2tsup:

Cheers Nai

[sjm]

Hey Paul39 Once again an abundence of info for me and i am loving it i will do what you have suggested with the blank and when i do finish it i will post it for everyone to see weather it turns out or not thanks heaps for all your help on the issue :2tsup: cheers nai

Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but I'd be interested to see the final product. Is it finished yet? Did you fill it with coffee? How did it end up?