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smidsy
27th Oct 2004, 09:00 PM
On mine where the tighening bars go on the main body the holes are getting a bit elongated - to the point where it's getting hard to tighen the chuck.
I only use the provided bars, but I don't believe there is such a thing as "too tight" when you're going to be spinning a lump of timber.
Have I been overtightening or is this just the poor metalurgy of the clone chucks, has anyone else had this problem - I know it's only a cheap chuck but I would have thought it would last more than 6 months.
Cheers
Paul

lyctus
27th Oct 2004, 09:19 PM
The clone chuck is an attempt to compete with the cheapie end of the market. I personally wish that the cheap stuff didn't have to exist. They exist because some retailers will sell anything, the sale is the be all. Carba-Tec should let those retailers pedal their poor quality stuff on their own.It becomes a dissapointment to the customer. Carba-Tec were giving these chucks away as a buyers bonus at cost or almost free at one stage with their MC900 and MC1100 lathes.
Like almost everything...you gets what you pays for ! Elongation of the holes in the body of the chuck is, as you surmise, due to soft metal. The onset of these cheapie chucks has seen the demise of the Aussie made Bonham Chuck. Sad.

smidsy
27th Oct 2004, 10:01 PM
I supose I shouldn't complain because I got it for $20 (the cost of the insert) with my MC900.
When I get some money I will be getting a vicmark.
Cheers
Paul

Cliff Rogers
27th Oct 2004, 10:59 PM
....
When I get some money I will be getting a vicmark.
Cheers
Paul

G'day.

Good move... which one are you thinking of?

I have a couple of VM140s, they use the bars like you have now.
The only complaint I have with them is that they will go rusty in
a humid climate.
I also have a Teknatool SuperNova & it doesn't go rusty BUT...
it needs a "T" bar & it's not made in OZ & I'm all for buying OZ first.

BigPop
27th Oct 2004, 11:32 PM
Paul,
I just got my VM120 Vicmarc today and its a beauty. Have been using my father in laws till now and they are a really nice bit of gear that's for sure.

smidsy
28th Oct 2004, 02:17 AM
Hei Guys,
When I go for a new chuck I'll be going for the Vicmarc over the Bonham but like everything else it will be as and when finances allow.
Not sure what model I will get, I'll sort that out when I get it.
I've got the 25mm jaws for the cloneham so when I get the new chuck I'll keep it for small work.
Cheers
Paul

gatiep
28th Oct 2004, 02:42 AM
Hey Paul,

You'd battle to find a genuine Bonham now as due to the cheap crib, the genuine stuff seems no longer to be made. A Vicmarc 90 chuck will be the one to go for with your MC-900 and it is a mere $229. Excellent value for money.I know all about elongated holes an clone chucks...............bad news unfortunately.
Have a good one

:)

TimberNut
28th Oct 2004, 10:10 AM
Hey Paul. I had an original Bonham from years ago that has served me quite well. (no elongated holes yet ;-)
however, recently I decided to invest in a second chuck (one's never enough, right?).
I looked into the Supernova and the Vicmarc. Ended up with a Vicmarc VM120. Thought about a VM140 (Tommy Bar version) but decided on the 120 (T-Bar Allen Key).
Some recommendations: If you need more clamping pressure than the 120 with Shark Jaws I'd hate to see the tree you were attempting to spin !! :-)
Those Jaws are something. Also, I saw Richard Raffan turn a bowl with Shark Jaws using about 2mm at the end only - rock solid! and he got it REALLY cranking. If you get a Vicmarc, get the Shark Jaws, and test their limits. Awesome gear.
"I was so impressed I bought the company" - just joking. But I couldn't be happier.
So happy in fact that am going to buy another Vicmarc chuck so I can run several, and also invest in a VL300 lathe too. (who'd have thought a $300 shopping trip will end up costing me about $7500 in more toys??)
Take the plunge - go get one!

smidsy
28th Oct 2004, 06:19 PM
Hei Guys,
I think when I get one I will get the T Bar style, what does it come with - I notice in the Carbatec catalogue that there is an optional extra screw plate, does this mean you don't get a crew with the chuck or is this an extra.
Cheers
Paul

Woodencrux
28th Oct 2004, 09:20 PM
I have two of the large Bonhams, find them great with one exception: no accessories nor adaptors to allow them to accept Nova or Vicmarc accessories. Note, these are the larger Bonhams.
Can someone please prove me wrong as I am very interested in any advice as to how I can increase the versatility of the chucks.
Does anyone know the contact details for the manufacturers of the "real" Bonham chucks?
In the heat of turning I have found it possible to make an error when preparing to tighten or loosen the Bohham. The error is to not fully insert the bar. I now endeavour to take an extra few seconds to ensure both are pushed home before adjusting the chuck. It seems this is even more of an important process with the Bonham "knock offs".
Many thanks,
Alan

gatiep
28th Oct 2004, 09:29 PM
Woodencrux.

You are right that not inserting the bars properly could damage the chuck, but with the knockoffs the holes elongate even with the bars properly seated! Offcourse one is lucky if the bars you get fit the knockoff in the first place. What a shame that a good Ozzie manufacturer has gone 'west' all for the sake of a cheaper and pretty useless knockoff product.

The genuine Bonham is a Carba-Tec line. Call Carba-Tec Brissie for details
Smidsy.

The Vicmarc chuck comes with a Glazer screw. The screw face plate is an accessory........you can screw the screw into the wood and mount or remove the faceplate from the chuck without unscrewing the screw or loosing alignment.

Have a good one!

:)

smidsy
29th Oct 2004, 03:00 AM
Woodencrux,
Not sure what you mean by larger Bonham chucks but Carbatec sell an adapter plate set to fit Vicmarc 90/100 series jaws to the Bonham chucks.
Cat# is CP-1 and it's on page 185 of the 2004 catalogue.
Cheers
Paul

Little Festo
29th Oct 2004, 09:42 AM
Checkout the Nova web site, they have their chucks on special.

Peter

adrian
29th Oct 2004, 10:19 AM
I have the same problem with the clone and I also had to grind down the bars to make them fit the holes. It's typical of the rubbish coming out of china where the motto is 'near enough is good enough.'
Unfortunately we don't have any consumer advocacy groups anymore. Retailers compound the problem by just getting a replacement item from the manufacturers without questioning the fact that they are having constant returns.
If you return clothing to a large retailer like BigW or Coles because the item that was marked as a 34" was actually 32" you will invariably find that it goes straight back onto the rack without any report to the manufacturer.
I had to return a powered Triton dust mask that had a couple of faults to bunnings and it went straight back onto the shelf. They know that someone will buy it and put up with the faults. So triton will never get to hear about a possible chronic weakness in one of their products.

Woodencrux
29th Oct 2004, 12:15 PM
I have the Bohnam 130 - no longer listed by Carba-tec. Thanks Paul for pointing out the adaptor CP-1, but it is for the Bonham 100. I'm not sure if anyone has used the CP-1. I know I was shown it at Carba-tec though something was wrong as the holes were certainly not lining up!
Perhaps I will need to fashion some jaws from timber to assist reversing bowls, etc.
Regards,
Alan

Cliff Rogers
29th Oct 2004, 01:25 PM
...Perhaps I will need to fashion some jaws from timber to assist reversing bowls...

You could also try one of those big nylon kitchen cutting boards.
It will cut up easily on a band saw or jig saw.

Another trick is to glue a piece of dense foam underlay onto a large disk
of plywood screwed to a faceplate & true it up on the lathe & mark it out
with several concentric circles & then reverse your turned item onto it
centring it using the circles & hold it in place with the tail centre.
Only works for smooth rimmed items.

Woodencrux
29th Oct 2004, 02:07 PM
Appreciate the thoughts Cliff. Maybe a cutting board is worth a try. It should hold well via the 8 screws. For timber, I think I'd go with a ply so the strength of the alternate grain will ensure the screws holding it to the chuck dont initiate any splitting along the grain when the chuck is spinning.
My other thought was to fashion a vacuum attachment and use the old Electrolux/Hoover/etc.
Your suggetion about using a padded faceplate may be a good one to try very soon as I have everything I need already and as long as I take things steadily, it should hold well.
Many thanks,
Alan

rsser
29th Oct 2004, 07:06 PM
You're on the right track there woodencrux. Not hard to fashion a vacuum chuck if you have a hollow headstock spindle. I'm happy to post my version of the countless out there.

Paul: my experience is that shark jaws and faceplate rings are the way to go with Vicmark chucks. I've been down the drilling and screwing route and am not going to say anything more about it!

Cliff's clearly more dextrous than I am; I went for a T-bar - remembrance of things past ;-}

smidsy
29th Oct 2004, 08:49 PM
Checkout the Nova web site, they have their chucks on special.

Peter
So what is the difference bewteen Nova and Vicmarc?
Cheers
Paul

rsser
29th Oct 2004, 09:01 PM
What's the diff between West Coast Eagles and Essendon?

smidsy
29th Oct 2004, 09:08 PM
The temptation to start a war is almost killing me.

:p :p :p

Woodencrux
29th Oct 2004, 10:53 PM
One thing I do appreciate about the Bonham is the arrangement of the holes that take the bars. I find that somewhere around the circumference I can always locate two holes that allow me to nip up the chuck with one hand whilst supporting the work with the other. This negates the frequent complaint about needing 3 hands!
My experience is really only with the Bonham so I am not sure if this arrangement is standard or something that one of their engineers came up with.
Paul mentioned words to the effect that nothing is "too tight". Certainly you don't want a log flying off as you rough it down but I want to share something I can see the sense in. One comment I took on board recently concerned the possibility of actually pushing a partially turned item off centre by reversing it (to be held in a chuck by a spigot) and over tightening the chuck. The basis for the warning was the difference in hardness between the growth rings of summer and winter. I know I have noticed this when trying to drill a fine hole and the drill quickly slides from the winter ring to a summer one. When the chuck is overtigtened, the softer grain at the jaws will deform more than the harder and the result is almost guaranteed to result in a loss of the original centre. The more you tighten, the further you push the original centre aside. I am sure that there are a variety of timbers (like hard desert species) for which this is probably not a problem, though more locally acquired timber around Sydney is another matter. Just more food for thought.
Regards,
Alan

rsser
30th Oct 2004, 10:07 AM
Yeah, but if you can, try out several positions to minimise the run out. And if rechucking on the same spigot, mark the piece to match jaw no. 1 or whatever.

One trick with the T-bar is to tighten both sides up, as you would with a Jacobs chuck eg. And I don't hesitate to give the piece a good tug or two if I can to check for grip.

As for differences between brands, or starting a war, I can really only speak about Vicmarc. I have the 100. The Nova seems as well made, so it may just come down to the range of jaws in either and whether you can get a good deal. From time to time you see Nova/teknatool lathes with chuck thrown in or cheap. And Vicmarc delivery times for specialised jaws can run into months. A key issue is whether you can use your jaws on other chucks from the same manufacturer. Not sure about the Nova but with Vicmarc, the jaws for the 90/100 won't fit the 120, and that's a major factor in me not buying a second chuck in the form of the 120.

graemet
30th Oct 2004, 08:50 PM
Not sure about the Nova but with Vicmarc, the jaws for the 90/100 won't fit the 120, and that's a major factor in me not buying a second chuck in the form of the 120. I have a Supernova chuck and all the jaws for the nova also fit the supernova.
The only beef I have with the supernova is that the t-bar seems to turn the opposite way to the intuitive one to tighten it!
Graeme

Cliff Rogers
1st Nov 2004, 11:03 PM
So what is the difference bewteen Nova and Vicmarc?


Holden, Ford...

Patrol, Cruiser...

Labour, Liberal...

:rolleyes:

Cliff Rogers
1st Nov 2004, 11:07 PM
... Cliff's clearly more dextrous than I am; I went for a T-bar - remembrance of things past ;-}

Who needs three hands when you have a dic... umm I mean an indexing lock?

Cliff Rogers
1st Nov 2004, 11:13 PM
...
The only beef I have with the supernova is that the t-bar seems to turn the opposite way to the intuitive one to tighten it!
...

That's Murphy's law.... :D
Nah, I agree with you on that, I always go the wrong way.... :mad:
I've gotten to a point now where I make a mental note to go the opposite way
I would normally go.... only problem is that now I almost drown myself in the
morning when I go to turn the tap off while I'm having a shave.
(NB: for those wondering... you can't turn it off if it is already off) :rolleyes:

rsser
2nd Nov 2004, 08:44 AM
Who needs three hands when you have a dic... umm I mean an indexing lock?

Ah, so you can lock it upright .. ;)

Red neck
3rd Nov 2004, 09:22 PM
G’day Smidsy,

I have a collection of Nova, Super Nova and Vicmarc chucks and too many jaw sets.

They are all good chucks. If your lathe doesn’t have a spindle lock then I would probably go for the Super Nova or Vicmarc chuck. The ‘T’ bar for the Vicmarc is a better proposition than the pinion on the Super Nova handle, although I believe the latest Super Nova chucks now use a Vicmarc style ‘T’ bar.

If you do have a spindle lock then the standard Nova is a good unit. I bought one recently from Gary Pye Woodworking for about $169 delivered. Why go back to a basic model? Cost. And after all, the chuck is only a means of holding the jaws so you can hold the work-piece.

Both Vicmarc and Nova provide an excellent range of jaws, inserts and the instruction manuals are readable. I have stripped down both brands for regular cleaning and servicing and this is not rocket science.

As for the screws, the advice above relating to using MDF collars is sound. The work-piece gains most of its traction from the collar. The screw simply pulls it against the collar. I also have a Vicmarc screw-chuck. This is a flanged chuck that supports a ‘Glasser’ style screw and is far superior to the chuck mounted screw that comes with the Vicmarc and the Nova range. I tend to use it simply for the speed of chucking the work-piece to turn the foot for the next step. Also useful for screw-chucking small diameters.

smidsy
4th Nov 2004, 12:08 AM
The main problem I have with cloneham chuck is that the holes for the tightening bars are getting elongated - this means that you can't get the sucker as tight as it should be.
I've only been turning 6 months but I've been around tools & power tools of some sort for 25 years (says a lot since I'm only 34) so I know common sense & I know functionality. I think the Vicmarc is a better design, if you can line up the bonham style chuck so you can get both bars near each other it's not so bad but sometimes it can be quite a juggling match trying to work two bars while holding a big lump of wood.
I've pretty much decided to go for a Vicmac 100, although Carbatec Perth want $230 for it and I can get a Nova for $180 so I have some thinking to do.
Cheers
Paul

lyctus
5th Nov 2004, 12:20 PM
The convenience and ease of use of a T Handle chuck beats lever designs hands down. I would pay a premium for the T Handle chuck every time. I have and use a T Handle chuck, having previously owned a lever type. I actually owned an original nova chuck some 17 years ago. Chuck design has come a long way from there !

smidsy
5th Nov 2004, 03:23 PM
The main issue for me is that the elongation of the holes means that I can't get the work as tight as it needs to be and I think this is a safety issue - for some reason the people at my turning club don't like it when I start launching lumps of timber in their direction :rolleyes:

I have to admit in fairness that the clone chuck has served me well and when I get my Vicmarc I will probably keep it for small jobs - I've got the small jaws for it.
It has been a good learning tool because it cost me nothing (I got it with my lathe for the cost of the insert) but if someone had told me when I bought the lathe that I had to spend $200+ on a chuck I probably would have given up on the spot - but having used the chuck and seen the value I am now quite content to spend the money on a Vicmarc.

I would have to say that Carbatec are doing a good thing with these chucks, sure they don't last long but they show people an extra aspect of turning and to me that is a positive.
Cheers
Paul

bsrlee
5th Nov 2004, 10:12 PM
Sounds like you need a machinist friend to bore out & tap the pin holes & screw in some hardened inserts - cut lengths of hi-tensile bolt stock, annealed, cut to length, screw slotted, hardened again & inserted. Vi-ola! A like new chuck. Lots of machine parts seem to need hardened inserts - the main body needs to have some 'give' but there is a bit that wears somewhere in it, and most maufactuers would rather sell you a new one than charge you a few dollars more for one that will last.

Why do people like Carbatec sell cheap S**t? Because its the only way they can get you in the door. If you buy the same piece-of-S*** from Fred's down the road, you will most likely keep buying from Fred's, even if he only sells C**p brand. At least at Carbatec you have the choice to pay a bit more & get a better product

smidsy
5th Nov 2004, 10:27 PM
I think the cheap chucks have their place.
As I said, if I had been told when I bought my lathe that I needed a $200 chuck I probably wouldn't have bought the lathe. That cheap chuck has taught me the value and usefulness of a chuck and I will cheerfully spend the money on a Vicmarc.

Besides, when I get the Vicmarc I'll put the 25mm jaws on the clone which will mean no more sodding around changing jaws (it seems that five minutes after I change the jaws I need the ones I've just taken off) and with the light use of the 25mm jaws that chuck will probably last a few years.
Cheers
Paul

Cliff Rogers
9th Nov 2004, 10:25 PM
G'day.

Here's something to think about as well....
http://www.teknatool.com/products/Chucks/SuperNova2/SuperNova2_Chuck.htm
It's the new version of the Supernova.
Gary Pye has them for $215.
http://store.yahoo.com/gpwoodturning/supernova2.html

I have 5 different chucks now & the Supernova is the only one that doesn't go rusty. :(
I have more jaws for the big Vicmarc than the Supernova & I need (want) another chuck... but...
the price & the fact it won't go rusty.... Gee.. I can buy the new Supernova &
an extra set of jaws for less than another big Vicmarc. :rolleyes:

adrian
10th Nov 2004, 11:24 AM
I think, as clone owners, we could summarise by saying that if you get one for $20 with your lathe or are given one for christmas you will get the value out of it. If you intend to pay full price you would be better off spending more on something decent because at full price the value just isn't there.
I agree with Paul about not buying the lathe if the clone had not been offered for $20. As a marketing strategy, intended or not, the $20 offer was very effective. It gets people into turning and creates a market for new chucks when they find that the clone is substandard, which it is.