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Old Croc
15th November 2010, 02:44 PM
Fellow woodturners,
I am seeking other peoples experience with filling cracks and rot pockets in various timbers. My problem is that I like to finish my bowls in 80% gloss Wattyl Stylewood, and after multiple coats to build up the finish, I find the finish or the thinners seems to shrink or depress the fillers I have used. I have tried Plastic wood, superglue and dust, and various other concoctions, but they all seem to shrink away under the gloss finish. Can anyone recommend a filler suitable for under this spray lacquer?
Any help will be appreciated,
regards,
Crocy.

stuffy
15th November 2010, 03:00 PM
Hi OC,

I use epoxy (west systems) and oxide colours, usually black.
It takes a while to go off, so mask up a little dam if its on a slope or it will run out.
It sands well, doesn't move or shrink, and strengthens cracks, rot and gum veins.
For small or thin cracks CA (superglue) is normally the easiest.

Best wishes
Steve
:)

old pete
15th November 2010, 06:07 PM
Hi Old Crock,

Stuffy's on the money there. I use a variant of his system in that I use two pack Epi- glue or two pack Techni-glue and the same artists oxide colors. I use plenty of oxide as it makes the sanding a lot easier. I never try to emulate the base color of the timber and usually go for some conversation generating contrasting color. Carefully mask with masking tape the timber surrounding the defect you wish to fill right up to the edge of the defect. When you are sanding off the excess after say three days curing make sure you sand off the entire surface of the article especially if its a top or side panel. I make sure of this by marking the whole panel surface with a 2B pencil and repeatedly sanding that off and re-pencilling until the treated section comes up to the standard you require. That way it all stays flat or planar to be more precise. Happy filling.

Old Pete

Sawdust Maker
15th November 2010, 06:54 PM
You can also use a mix of epoxy and coffee grounds
seems to work well, has a similar turnability as wood.
another idea is to mix in some brass filings for a hint of a glint (ask your local key cutter for his/her filings)
experiment with whatever you can think of

Cliff Rogers
15th November 2010, 10:45 PM
Concrete. :2tsup:

joevan
16th November 2010, 08:58 AM
Hello old Croc,

Like Stuffy, I use epoxy (west system) as well but mostly clear. Super glue with wood dust on smaller cracks.

Joe v K.

Ironwood
16th November 2010, 10:09 AM
Concrete. :2tsup:

Do you put any reo bar in with that to stop it cracking Cliff ?

Old Croc
16th November 2010, 02:14 PM
Concrete. :2tsup:

Cliffie, you forget that I know where you live :o
Steve, Old Pete, Nick and Joe, thanks for the replies. As I said I tried both Selleys Plastic Wood epoxy and Superglue, but they both shrunk away when the lacquer went on and dried. Have any of you sprayed this Stylewood over the West System or Techniglue epoxies?
regards,
Crocy.

Cliff Rogers
16th November 2010, 02:19 PM
Do you put any reo bar in with that to stop it cracking Cliff ?
Nuh, I keep that for when Croc visits. :D

cultana
16th November 2010, 03:32 PM
While you are all giving suggestions, besides concrete or cement, any suggestions to fill this piece?

turnerted
16th November 2010, 04:57 PM
Cultana
I would use plastibond with black fibreglass pigment to fill this .Overfill it slightly and don't leave it too long after it has set before you turn the excess off . If you find that you didn't fill it properly the first time you can add to it .

Ted

cultana
16th November 2010, 09:56 PM
Cultana
I would use plastibond with black fibreglass pigment to fill this .Overfill it slightly and don't leave it too long after it has set before you turn the excess off . If you find that you didn't fill it properly the first time you can add to it .

Ted

Ted, Thanks.
I am still working out the final design/outcome for this. It's only 2" thick and a clock just seemed a waste..

Cliff Rogers
17th November 2010, 12:14 AM
Wood? Yes, maybe you could fill it with wood. :think:

cultana
17th November 2010, 12:45 AM
Wood? Yes, maybe you could fill it with wood. :think:

Besides the subtle humour there, that has crossed my mind. That is, using a plug of different timber in each major hole/cavity.

Little Festo
17th November 2010, 09:01 AM
As posted earlier coffee grounds/powdered pigments and CA glue is what I have been using most. I've just started using 5minute epoxy as well. I like these two methods as you can resume work on the piece quickly, particularly the CA. My only worry with the CA is that it is said it only has a 15 year life.

I have tried the Techniglue mixed with Feast Watsons colours (spirit based), works ok but can be bit too runny. Techniglue can also be thinned with metho if you do need it a bit wetter (so to speak).


I have started carving out the cracks, can be quite effective.

Peter

Cliff Rogers
17th November 2010, 09:08 AM
Besides the subtle humour there, that has crossed my mind. That is, using a plug of different timber in each major hole/cavity.
Yup, there was a bloke I knew in Townsville who used plugs to cover up defects in timber.
He used small branches turned down to fit hole that he bored where the defect was & then glued them in with the end grain showing, he would then carefully finish it so that it looked like a knot.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
18th November 2010, 03:32 AM
Another alternative for those of us who can't afford coffee beans... instant coffee! :innocent:

Seriously, for the darker timbers I've been mixing instant coffee through my epoxy. Depending on how thoroughly it's mixed, it can either look like a resin vein or replicate the speckled, tightly packed dust left by some grubs.

'Tis cheap, easy and looks very subtle and natural... although can be a right bugger if you absentmindedly stir your cuppa with the epoxy-covered stick. :doh:

Old Croc
18th November 2010, 07:53 AM
Thanks, but no one has mentioned if they are using Stylwood lacquer over these repairs, which was my initial question, as it appears it is causing the shrinkage of my fillers,
Crocy

dr4g0nfly
18th November 2010, 08:50 AM
If you want to make a decorative effect you could do worse than car body filler - used straight it's white but mixed with a little acrylic artists paint any colour you want.

Also good for filling textured patterns and then cut back to a smooth finish. It turns and sands well and is very smooth.

Little Festo
18th November 2010, 08:56 AM
I've used Mirrotone lacquer (precat) over the CA and coffee grounds without any shrinkage. CA is a pretty good glue and penetrates well into the timber so there is a good bonding effect. I like to build the filled section up a bit then sand it down and apply a little more CA to ensure that the filler is well saturated with the glue, then sand back a little again. It can be good to apply some sanding sealer, in open grained timbers, to stop the CA from penetrating into the wood as this can be a problem - causes staining as the CA fills the pores. With cracks I then carefully use a fine V carving tool to redefine the crack so to speak. Oh and if you use a sanding sealer make sure that it is compatible with your lacquer. The turps based sanding sealers don't work well with lacquers that use a Acetone type thinner.

Actually I've noticed a few of the epoxies shrinking, possibly need to let them cure a bit longer before final finishing. This occured with lacquering and oiling.

If you ask at your local Coffee shop they will generally give you a good supply of coffee grounds. A days worth of grinds from a busy place will give you a years supply of grounds. You will probably need to dry them though. The microwave works well but be aware that they will burn if you try to dry them too quickly. If left to dry normally watch out for mold.

Hope this is of some help - Peter

Old Croc
18th November 2010, 01:30 PM
(Actually I've noticed a few of the epoxies shrinking, possibly need to let them cure a bit longer before final finishing. This occured with lacquering and oiling.)
At last Peter, someone has noticed that it does shrink under the lacquer, does anyone know of a filler that does not shrink?
regards,
Crocy.

TTIT
18th November 2010, 01:53 PM
Maybe you need to look at some sort of pre-coat like a primer that might stop the Stylewood from affecting the filler :shrug: ......
........
.......
.......... or even using a real finish instead of that glossy Stylewood rubbish :U:;

woodspinner
19th November 2010, 01:03 AM
Hi
On the subject of filling voids and cracks in logs and turned pieces I have used all the methods already mentioned. Another one I use quiet often is gorrila glue mixed with waste material I have turned off other projects. I keep the smaller sawdust and shavings in diffrent containers so that the colors do not mix. However if i do need a particular shade I use spirit dyes to produce the one I wont before I mix the sawdust with the glue. The consistency I try to achieve is one of glazing putty. I find that a good wire brushing to clean out any loose particles which also helps the material to adhere to the surrounding areas. Always leave it proud of the the hole slightly as it gives you somthing to true down to. Hope this as been helpful.:fingerscrossed:
Brian

Old Croc
19th November 2010, 02:19 PM
Maybe you need to look at some sort of pre-coat like a primer that might stop the Stylewood from affecting the filler :shrug: ......
........
.......
.......... or even using a real finish instead of that glossy Stylewood rubbish :U:;


MMMMM, you may be on the money there Vern, I might contact Wattyl and run it by them.
as for real finishes, I dont hide my mistakes under an oil finish
regards,
Crocy.