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HSS
4th Mar 2011, 12:20 PM
Hi,

I'm currently setting up my workshop and need some advice on how to bolt down my Wadkin RU 15 patternmaker's lathe. I don't believe that dyna bolts will do the trick as it's pretty large. I've had a few suggestions such as ripping up the slab in my workshop, digging cavities for blocks (1m cubed) and casting threaded rod into it in the correct positions. I don't know if this is over kill or not. I will be laying a new slab of some sort in order to get a nice flat base anyway (I don't want the moveable bed to bind up at all).

Any suggestions????

There was a post on this website a while ago that was talking about patternmaking and one of the blokes said that he'd used the RU 15 as a patternmaker years ago. Does anyone know who that might be and how I could get in touch with them (I've got a few other specific enquiries as well). I can't find the thread anymore.

hughie
4th Mar 2011, 01:54 PM
1m cubes? what are you turning? :o instead try Chemset bolts if your really worried. Basically they are concrete bolts held in place by epoxy resin. Use to hold down house frames in Hurricane areas.

HSS
4th Mar 2011, 06:13 PM
I'll check out the chemset bolts. They've been suggested to me but I'm more concerned about the concrete they're getting set into. Attached is a photo of the lathe so you can see what I mean. It's got a gap bed so you can turn up to 1800 diam between centres (2100 out board) and 3400-3600 between centres with the bed wound out. I'm using it for a range of different work including architectural, hence the requirement for the large capacity. It's likely that the It's a 3 HP motor.

(Note the photos are taken when it was in storage at home in the garage, not at the workshop where it is now).

Cheers for the advice Hughie :2tsup:

wooden plane
4th Mar 2011, 07:11 PM
Sorry, I didn't finish off my last sentence there. It's possible that I'll be turning up to a few hundred kilos so I need the footings to be appropriate.

China
4th Mar 2011, 09:53 PM
Years ago I had a Wadkin lathe very simillar to yours although it was not a patternmaker's lathe it was the same bulk and length, I fixed it down with large loxin type bolts, the floor it was fixed to was 12" (300mm) thick I never had a problem with it moving

HSS
4th Mar 2011, 10:05 PM
That's great, something I can directly compare with. Did you do a lot of large diameter or heavy pieces on it?

comgreserv
5th Mar 2011, 03:47 AM
I want one!
I was in an old pattern shop today and they had 3 of those lathes but maybe a little older and one was able to retract the bed on the right hand side to enable you to swing 1.2mts! thats a big platter...2.4mts give or take!:doh:

NeilS
5th Mar 2011, 01:51 PM
Nice lathe!

Extra nice free standing toolrest pedestal!

And, very impressive faceplate sitting there on the back of the truck.

Can't imagine this one would get a second glance from ...:roll:

rsser
5th Mar 2011, 02:19 PM
What a monster! Good score.

In general with a lathe and bolting down, the pads should be on a plane because you don't want high tension on the fixings of whatever sort twisting the bed.

hughie
5th Mar 2011, 02:40 PM
If you have to reinforce the foundations try boring a holes say 200mm dia through the concrete and down about 1m add reo and screwed rod to hold the lathe down. Then refill with concrete, just make sure your screwed rod is welded to the reo. With this it would be highly unlikely to come adift and its less costly and disruptive as 1m cubes.

HSS
5th Mar 2011, 05:49 PM
I want one!
I was in an old pattern shop today and they had 3 of those lathes but maybe a little older and one was able to retract the bed on the right hand side to enable you to swing 1.2mts! thats a big platter...2.4mts give or take!:doh:

This one's got the same sort of retractible bed. It winds out form the headstock about 750mm to allow for a 1800mm diameter.

What was the name of the pattern shop you visited?

HSS
5th Mar 2011, 05:51 PM
If you have to reinforce the foundations try boring a holes say 200mm dia through the concrete and down about 1m add reo and screwed rod to hold the lathe down. Then refill with concrete, just make sure your screwed rod is welded to the reo. With this it would be highly unlikely to come adift and its less costly and disruptive as 1m cubes.

I think this might be the way to go. I can't imagine it coming out.

China
5th Mar 2011, 09:29 PM
HSS yes I did turn large objects such as ex jetty piers from Victoria, from memory they were about 800mm diam x 2400, plus I trued up some wagon wheels for a mate I also made many heavy duty architectural collm's. I agree with Hughie that would be the ideal way to fix it down if you don't already have thick concrete floor

Hardenfast
6th Mar 2011, 08:50 AM
Very impressive machine!

You don't say what sort of concrete slab is currently in the workshop, or why you're intending to lay a new slab. Domestic floor slabs (including garage) are usually 100mm (4") thick with a single layer of F72 reinforcing mesh in the centre or thereabouts. You could be unlucky and find that your current floor is of lesser specification, but the 1m cubed footing blocks sound like extreme overkill.

Assuming that the existing slab is in reasonable condition, ie. 100mm thick and without major cracking, it should be quite sufficient for your machine. Ideally, and if you're going to replace the floor anyway, a 150mm (6") thick slab with 2 layers of mesh would be a nice specification for your floor, as this is the type of floor provided in general commercial buildings/factories or in suspended floor situations.

Of course the problem with existing floor slabs is you can never be certain what their "true" consistent thickness is, or whether there are voids under sections of the slab where the foundation material has subsided over the years. As a builder, I've seen many 4" slabs that are actually 3" and less in places when we've had to cut/demolish sections of the floor during repair/extensions works etc. Also, it's not uncommon to find that the single layer of reo has been trampled right down to the plastic during placement of the concrete and that's where it has stayed.

Keep in mind that machines like your are tremendously heavy, and generally have enough weight and base-width to keep them stable during operation. I'd bet that a series of properly embedded 100mm ChemSet bolts in a 100mm concrete slab would do the trick.

Wayne

HSS
6th Mar 2011, 05:48 PM
Cheers for the info Wayne and China. The workshop is in an old factory. The floor is a patchy mess of concrete and red brick done in many stages. Parts of the concrete are pretty crumbly so I don't really trust it. I was thinking of laying a new slab so that I know what I'm working with and so I can ensure that it's nice and flat to reduce the chance of the bed binding up (the bed support on the tailstock end is completely seperate from the headstock end. You're right though, it's pretty stable on it's own. It's all cast, weighs around 1.5 tonnes and is 800mm wide at the base so I don't imagine it will shift around too much.

RETIRED
6th Mar 2011, 08:54 PM
I have to wipe the drool off the keyboard.:D

My big lathe is only bolted to the floor with 3/8" dynabolts.

When setting it up we used a level and a laser to get it straight and even using ply spacers under the legs as shims.

We have turned up to 5 tonne in weight on it and it has never moved.

Our floor is 5" thick with double reo.

We are in the process of commissioning a new lathe capable of turning 800.mm in diameter.

It will get it first blood on Wed or Thurs. It is not bolted down but will weigh about 2 tonne all up..

I will let you know how it goes.

HSS
6th Mar 2011, 11:03 PM
Send us some photos of the new one! I'd be interested in checking it out.

Paul39
7th Mar 2011, 07:30 AM
I have to wipe the drool off the keyboard.:D

We are in the process of commissioning a new lathe capable of turning 800.mm in diameter.

I will let you know how it goes.

I too am slobbering on my keyboard.

, 800mm swing by how much between centers?

Photos please.
---------------------------------------------

HSS,

A thread on grouting and leveling a machine.

How to grout a machine --? - Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/how-grout-machine-164043/)

This is for metal working which is pickier than wood working, but the process is the same.

The machinists levels used are so sensitive as to move a half bubble if you put a .001 shim under one end.

The Wadkin looks to have 6 points to rest and bolt down. If the machine is level between each of the 6 points and grouted and bolted, there should be no trouble extending the movable bed.

1 3 5
The six points, headstock at 1 - 2
2 4 6

Set in your foundation the biggest bolts that will fit through the mount holes.

Place the lathe on the bolts and place spacers under the 1 - 2 points so that it is the highest point.

Put level on bed between 1 & 2 & shim to level.

Level between 1 & 3, level between 2 & 4, level between 3 & 4, check by using a straight edge and level between 1 & 4, then between 2 & 3,

Level between 3 & 5, then between 4 & 6, then between 5 & 6, then between 3 & 6 and between 4 & 5.

Start at the beginning at 1 & 2 and check and shim if needed all the way through.

Then grout under the machine and let completely set. Using thick washers and nuts fasten machine down.

If the bed binds when extending to make the gap, check for level again. If out loosen bolts under low places, shim and retighten.

A 2 meter pinch bar resting on a 6mm steel plate will lift the machine for shimming.

This is the type of level needed:

Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=327-3186&PMPXNO=22508326&PARTPG=INLMK3)

If you have a machinist friend, you might be able to borrow one, or feed him a good dinner and have him help. There are cheaper Chinese versions. If one checks the level by leveling with shims and then reversing the level, the cheaper version will do.

The Practical Machinist Forum is a huge source of information and friendly advice. The owner does not tolerate home shop Asian machinery discussion.

Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web - Powered by vBulletin (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/)

I went there to learn about my South Bend Heavy 10L lathe

HSS
7th Mar 2011, 11:51 AM
Thanks Paul, that's great advice in a lot of detail. It's taken the guess work out of it. I'll have a closer look at tht link as well. Cheers.

RETIRED
7th Mar 2011, 11:54 AM
, 800mm swing by how much between centers?

Photos please.About 2.4 metres (8"0)

Photos will come later.

Big Kev
7th Mar 2011, 04:35 PM
the safe bet might be to contract a suitably qualified engineer for advice, whoever your getting to supply the concrete should have a contact.

It might cost a few hundred dollars, but it might be money well spent if something goes wrong.

the-owwm
12th Mar 2011, 01:05 AM
I have an RU that I picked up at the liquidation of an aluminum foundry in Bridgeport, Connecticut US. The lathe was being used in a pattern shop. I agree with the grouting advice given above. The lathe has a good base that distributes the load very well. I leveled mine using aluminum wedges and then poured thinset mortar under the base.

Here's a link (http://www.owwm.net/index.php?id=14)to the article on the sale and removal

I don't have any pictures of the lathe in it's current setup. but here are some taken when it was in the pattern shop and shortly after removal.

http://www.owwm.net/images/216.jpg
http://www.owwm.net/images/219.jpg
http://www.owwm.net/images/231.jpg

AF
Somerset, New Jersey USA

NeilS
12th Mar 2011, 04:35 PM
Gutsy effort getting the RU out of the 2nd floor and home (safely). Well done!

My brother-in-law and business partner had an Wadkin RU that went for scrap prices when they auctioned off their equipment when after closing down their pattern business. Sadly he didn't give me first right of refusal, which was probably a good thing as it was several thousand klms away and my workshop would have had severe indigestion had I attempted to fit it in there. And, the crane fees would would have been something else.
.

HSS
12th Mar 2011, 11:56 PM
I have an RU that I picked up at the liquidation of an aluminum foundry in Bridgeport, Connecticut US. The lathe was being used in a pattern shop. I agree with the grouting advice given above. The lathe has a good base that distributes the load very well. I leveled mine using aluminum wedges and then poured thinset mortar under the base.

Here's a link (http://www.owwm.net/index.php?id=14)to the article on the sale and removal

I don't have any pictures of the lathe in it's current setup. but here are some taken when it was in the pattern shop and shortly after removal.

http://www.owwm.net/images/216.jpg
http://www.owwm.net/images/219.jpg
http://www.owwm.net/images/231.jpg

AF
Somerset, New Jersey USA

So how have you found the RU? I haven't been able to use it yet. Are their any tips or hints you can offer about operating or maintaining it?

the-owwm
13th Mar 2011, 02:31 AM
Your lathe looks pretty clean, so I doubt that you'll have many of the problems I did. As you can tell from the pictures, they weren't very big on keeping the thing clean. I had layers of oil and dust to clean-up. That said, they did do a good job of keeping it lubed. I have little to no wear on any of the way surfaces. The inside of the gearbox was clean and had plenty of oil. I'd follow the advice given here on levelling the machine. Then make sure the bed slides freely, the carriage moves smoothly, check your oil levels and go to work. I use my lathe for making patterns to be used in casting iron. These are used for restoration of old woodworking and metalworking machines. I've also used it for odd purposes like crowning bandsaw wheels/tires. How common are these lathes in Australia? I rarely see them in this part of the world. The Wadkin RS is far more common. As far as sliding gap bed lathes go, The Putnam and the Fay & Scott (both made in North America) are fairly common here.

Fay & Scott:

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/images/11882-A.jpg

Putnam:

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/images/5053-D.jpg

These are both great lathes, but nowhere near as refined as the Wadkin RU.

AF
Somerset, New Jersey, United States

HSS
15th Mar 2011, 12:38 AM
Thanks for tips. My lathe as no wear on the bed or the carriage and the tailstock spins with just a touch of the finger. I was pretty amazed when it first arrived.

I've been told that the government were the only ones to import the RU into Australia (presumably for patternmaking in the railways or mining I guess). I bought mine from Sydney where it had been the possession of an old patternmaker. Mine's a late model I think (early '70's). I'm struggling to find much information on it so I guess that would suggest it's pretty rare here. I'd love to get a manual on it.

HSS
15th Mar 2011, 12:42 AM
I just realised that you're from NJ. My girlfriend is from Ridgewood, NJ. I'm heading over in June...it's a small world.

Those other tow lathes look of similar style to the RS.

I'll post some picks of it once it's all set up.

Paul39
15th Mar 2011, 04:11 AM
I'm struggling to find much information on it so I guess that would suggest it's pretty rare here. I'd love to get a manual on it.

Here is some info, Tony might find a book.

lathes (http://www.lathes.co.uk/)

Page Title (http://www.lathes.co.uk/wadkin/)

Wadkin Thread on Practical Machinist:

INCREDIBLE Pattern Makers wood lathe on eBay - Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/incredible-pattern-makers-wood-lathe-ebay-146771/)

Keep looking on Google, amazing what turns up.