Has anyone turned QLD. Walnut?

[Avery]

I had an offcut from another (flat) project that I am in the middle of, so i thought I would try making a neat little platter. The piece was about 250mm square and about 50mm thick. I cut the corners off on my small and underpowered bandsaw with some difficulty, mounted the thing on a faceplate and began the process of getting it round.

That is when the problems started.

My tools barely made an impression on the stuff. So, off to the grinder to get an edge and a carefully applied stone for a polish. Back to the lathe. OK for two passes over the 50mm width, then nothing - the chisel just rubs and bounces off. I tried another gouge - exactly the same.

Now, these tools are the ones I bought 12 months ago when I started this damn foolish woodturning thing - you know , the $100 set of six things in a box. I knew I woould need to get proper ones someday, so, off I go to my local H&F - just down the road. I happily buy a P&N 16mm Super Gouge, take it home, sharpen it, carefully apply it to the spinning piece of walnut and it cuts beautifully - for about 30 seconds, then nothing. It just bounces around. I rotate the gouge and carefully present all parts of it the the timber. In a couple of minutes the whole cutting edge is stuffed , from one lip to the other.

What is this Qld. Walnut stuff made of? I know the book says it has lots of silica and can be a little abrasive, but I have been trying for 4 days to get this lump somewhere near round.


I reckon if I turn the lights off , I'll get showers of sparks.

Anyone?? Heeeeeellllppppppp!

[RETIRED]

What bevel angle are you using on the gouge?

I have turned the stuff (the smell of some is atrocious) and you are right, some is related to species concretus.

[Cliff Rogers]

I've turned black stripe walnut, turned as this as cardboard & weighted nothing, I don't remember having a problem with it but it probley isn't the same stuff.

I think Old Croc from Townsville has some that he wants to try a TCT tool on... maybe it is hard on the tools. :think: :D

[joevan]

Hello Avery

I made the same experience. I spend more time on the grinding wheel than on th lathe. Some time ago I bought 3-4 blanks and sofar I made only 1 into a small bowl and the rest will make its way into the garden to get rotten there..
BR Joe v K.

[Sebastiaan56]

Scrapers work best in my limited experience,

[Avery]

What bevel angle are you using on the gouge?

I have turned the stuff (the smell of some is atrocious) and you are right, some is related to species concretus.
\



I am not great at sharpening - I do OK , but I am certainly not one of those that gets razor like tools. I set my shopmade jig to the angle that the tool was originally at, so i don't think that i am getting so fine an angle that it would normally blunt quickly. Certainly the angles are nowhere near bench chisel angles.

I tried running a freshly ground bowl gouge across the face of the piece and it cut quite cleanly and continued to cut well for some time. I seems that it is the end grain that really bludgeons the chisel.

[Avery]

Cliff,

This Queensland stuff is heavy and HARD. I would like to try a carbide tool on it. I'll see what I can come up with.


Joe

I'll send you a couple of pieces of this and you can bury them in your garden too. It is proving impossible to turn.

Sebastiaan

I tried a scraper , that works reasonably well across the grain, but the end grain just kills it. After a few seconds you may as well be using a screwdriver - a blunt screwdriver.

[TTIT]

I turned this platter a few years ago and doubt I'll ever tackle the stuff again (even though I've still got a fair bit of it). Apart from spending more time at the grinder than the lathe, I'm not into grey coloured wood at all (the photo doesn't show the colour too well :C ).

[powderpost]

G'day Avery,
I have worked with Qld Walnut for a long time. Working walnut with hand tools is no problem. There is the clew. Try slowing the lathe down. It wont solve the problem of the high silica content, but will make life a lot easier. If you think black walnut is bad, try yellow walnut, that's murder.
The smell when machining walnut reminds me of dog shyt.
It is still a nice timber to work.... by hand.
Jim

[RETIRED]

The smell when machining walnut reminds me of dog shyt.I was being nice.:wink:

[powderpost]

Run that by me again , I don't think I heard you properly.... :wink:
Jim

[Avery]

I haven't noticed any aromas from this stuff. I have sawn it, planed it , thicknessed it and turned it (unsuccessfully), but no strange smells.

My shed dog, Montythedog, shows no interest.

[Avery]

Powderpost,

I bought a couple of slabs of this stuff from another forum member and i have been happily sawing it , planing it etc. etc. with the expressed intent of making a coffee table. All of that is going OK. So your comments are spot on (except for the dog shyte bit - that just hasn't happened). The lump that has been attached to my little yellow lathe for the past few days just won't give in, at any speed.

I was at my local Mens Shed today and one of my mates, a turner of some experience, inferred that I was not suitably experienced with turning difficult timbers, I think the term he used started with dick and ended with head, - of course this was expressed with all the due care and responsibility that woodturners show for each other.

I gave him a piece of this hellish timber and told him to have it made round by Saturday afternoon . One of us is up for a few beers. I think it's him , he! he! he!.

[HazzaB]

Hey Avery,

i have a few pieces of American Walnut that I have from Pen Swap buddies in the States, I haven't turned any yet, I have turned some pens from English Walnut and that was interesting, Maybe you could send some bits over and I could do a bit of a comparision as to the differences between Aussie Walnut (Qld) and American Walnut, and send you a couple of pens to judge ??

HazzaB

[Avery]

Hey Avery,

i have a few pieces of American Walnut that I have from Pen Swap buddies in the States, I haven't turned any yet, I have turned some pens from English Walnut and that was interesting, Maybe you could send some bits over and I could do a bit of a comparision as to the differences between Aussie Walnut (Qld) and American Walnut, and send you a couple of pens to judge ??

HazzaB


Hello Hazza

The first thing that I did when I bought these slabs of Queensland walnut was to slice a bit off one end and turn down a pen sized piece. It worked really well, I sanded to, I think, 600 and applied EEE and Shellawax . I did it very quickly with no real regard to perfect finish, just enough to get some idea of what it would look like. It comes up really nice, the colour is a bit boring, but it really does take a shine. The crossover from sapwood to heartwood probably has the best interest for pens but there are some other pieces that look interesting.

I bought two slabs, about 500 x 40 x 2.7 to make a coffee table, after cutting off the edges and the ends I have enough bits for dozens of pen blanks, some of it may be quite interesting.

PM me and we can organise a bag full of suitable offcuts.

[Avery]

posted this afternoon.

[AJ]

I agree with most of these replies. I have turned both black and Qld Walnut and found the Qld Walnut to be the hardest to turn. I ended up giving what I had left of the Qld Walnut to a friend who was after some firewood. I have good tools but they were no match for this stuff.:C

[powderpost]

This is a black walnut platter turned some time back. Black walnut (endiandra palmerstonii) is also known as Australian walnut, black nut, oriental walnut and walnut bean. I turned it at a lower speed than I normally turn platters and had little trouble.

It is probable that the characteristics vary with growing conditions and soil types. I have experienced wide variations in colour which also very with the maturity of the tree. Older trees are usually darker in colour and the odour is more prominent. The degree of variation in timber is what makes it a wonderful and sometimes challenging material.
Jim

[Old Croc]

Avery,
I have cut a lot of this stuff as Cliffie said earlier, easy as when green and it would be the most difficult timber in the world when dry. My lot came from a huge old tree up near Powderposts place, and I made a 400mm bowl last year for our local show competition. I found Henry Taylor HSS lasted 1 sweep across the bowl, the Jerry Glasser Hitec gouge 1-2-3 passes, so I borrowed that Easy Rougher off Cliffie, traded some timber to TTIT for some spare cutters and hey presto, it is turmable. I found the Tungsten cutters would blunten about every 5 to 6 passes, so would give them a rub with a diamond hone, and back to work. Believe me it was hard work, but the result was stunning, with some sapwood on one side, and fullgloss lacquer for a finish.
So dont give up on it, you just have to keep trying, and also the SIA 80 grit gouge also works very well on it.
regards,
Crocy.

[bobsreturn2003]

several years ago i got a few head pieces ,and took them home the slabber chain just wouldnt stay sharp:((. then the gouges got blunt.:( got one of those special $$$ gouges and it worked fairly well . some of the trees were full of silica read grindstone and some were ok . from the same field !!!havent tried carbide yet , the end result is worth the effort :U, though i would rather have some black bean . cheers bob

[Avery]

Powderpost,

I took your advice and turned the speed down to minimum.

It really made a difference.

How do you explain that - I know I can't. At the slowest speed I was able to cut curlies off the thing for quite some time before a trip to the grinder. Just one pulley up in speed I was back to thump, thump, thump and no result at all.

Because of your advice,I was able to get the platter turned, shaped, sanded, and finished . That was just before it cracked right down the middle.

Such is life...

[Avery]

Hey Old Croc.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Next time i want to turn this stuff I'll send it to you with instructions, maybe not.

I turned a small gavel yesterday with a matching sounding block. The gavel was relatively easy but the sounding block, being lots of end grain was fierce. But as you say the result was outstanding. The sounding block was part sapwood, heartwood and some of the sapwood , I think , had spalted. The finished piece was small, but spectacular.

[Old Croc]

Powderpost,

I took your advice and turned the speed down to minimum.

It really made a difference.

..

Yea, he's a funny old bugger, taught me a lot, still does each Prossie Turnout, probably, no definitely, the most underated turner in the country, just look at that platter of his in his post on this thread,
regards,
Crocy.
PS, did I say PROSSIE TURNOUT,only 7 months to go, yippeeee!!!!!!

[robo hippy]

I was puzzled at first. I have turned a lot of Juglens nigra, American Black Walnut, and this stuff isn't even related. I guess it is like Brazillian Cherry, which is actually Jatoba. Yours is called walnut because of the color. The black walnut here is wonderful to turn, smells quite strong, and does seem to dull the tools quickly, mostly I figure because of the high acidic nature of the wood. As hard as your stuff seems to be, I would think the carbide tipped tools for roughing, and some light passes with a good gouge, or shear cuts with a scraper would work for finish cuts.

robo hippy

[Avery]

I was puzzled at first. I have turned a lot of Juglens nigra, American Black Walnut, and this stuff isn't even related. I guess it is like Brazillian Cherry, which is actually Jatoba. Yours is called walnut because of the color. The black walnut here is wonderful to turn, smells quite strong, and does seem to dull the tools quickly, mostly I figure because of the high acidic nature of the wood. As hard as your stuff seems to be, I would think the carbide tipped tools for roughing, and some light passes with a good gouge, or shear cuts with a scraper would work for finish cuts.

robo hippy

You are right Robo. I don't think that Queensland Walnut has any association at all with North hemisphere Walnut. Many of our timbers have taken , at least informal names, from foreign species because of their appearance. There is no doubt that Qld Walnut looks very similar to real walnut, especially when polished.

I have never used carbide tipped tools. My budget is tiny so I generally have to make do with what I have. I eventually finished the piece but it was frustrating and laboriuos

Then, of course, it split right down the middle.

Such is woodturning.

[powderpost]

Avery, glad to be of help. I guess I have a small advantage, over 50 years working with wood, most of it with hand tools. While I was still active in the trade, none of our tools had a trigger and we had time to "work" the wood and get to understand it. I also spent time in a joinery shop and often helped the wood machinist machine timber.

I often hear how "hard" spotted gum is. I remember having had to cut a chase down a 5" x 4" corner stud in an old workers dwelling. The house had been built by my grandfather 35 years previously, it cut beautifully using only a chisel and mallet.

My comments for walnut apply to spotted gum also. I guess a bit of experience is a good teacher????

Jim

[robo hippy]

There is an alternative to the carbide tools. There is a local traditional tool called the 'Big Ugly Tool' that the Oregon coastal myrtle wood bowl turners have used for a long time. They are home made. Traditional style is a 3/4 inch by 30 inch long piece of bar stock with a piece of 7/8 inch wide by about 3/16 inch thick piece of tantung steel silver slodered to both ends. You wear a heavy leather glove on the handle end. One end is more square, the other more rounded. If you haven't turned our myrtle (which is actually California Bay Laurel, and not myrtle at all... marketing......) it tends to be rather abrasive. They would sharpen in the morning, turn till lunch, then sharpen again and turn for the rest of the day. Unlike carbide, you can sharpen on standard grinders. Now, as to where to get the tantung steel, I don't know. Maybe stellite would be more available. For me, if I was going to make one, I would use round bar stock, and cut the tip down to half thickness, as I like to work up on the edge for shear cuts.

robo hippy