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bellyup
17th May 2011, 02:15 PM
G'day,
The trusty Hamlet bowl gouge is nearing the end of it's hard life turning inland hardwood and it's time to think of a newwy. I reckon that with the Aust. dollar so strong maybe I should look at some exotic U.S steel like D-Way or Thompsons stuff - is it better than our own brands like P+N or the Sheffield steels?.
I would be very interested to know which brands you like in a bowl gouge and spindle gouge.
Thanks, all the best.
Bruce.

Ross
17th May 2011, 02:55 PM
Bruce

I have used a Hamlet bowl gouge for many years and at the last group buy I bought a Thompson. The Hamlet has been great but I find I am reaching for the Thompson more because it's edge lasts longer. The only problem I have with the Thompson is I chose a 16" handle for outboard turning, I should have bought the 12" as well for inboard work

Ross.

Doug Thompson is a member of these forum

robo hippy
17th May 2011, 04:25 PM
Well, I have a bunch of Thompson gouges and reach for them most of the time. I had one Ellsworth signature HSS gouge that I wore down to a triangle tool, and replaced it. I got one of the Packard 'stays sharp 5 times longer' gouges, and like it, but it is getting pretty stubby. I have a couple of the Oneway 'lasts longer' gouges and think they are pretty close to the Thompson gouges. I have one of the Glaser deep V gouges, and it cuts fine, I just don't like that deep V. I have an older D Way tool (called Sweezy gouges then, but he died, and the company became D Way), and don't really like it for the same reason as the Glaser deep V gouge. The differences are slight, but I think the most important part is the shape of the flute, and your nose profile, and finding what works best for you. That is the main reason that I prefer the Thompson V gouge which is shallower than the Glaser deep V.

There was a discussion on another forum about which steel can you get sharper. The conclusion by people who forgot more about metal than I will ever learn say that there is no difference, except that it may be easier to get HSS scary sharp than it is to get the fancy powder metals like the Thompson tools that sharp. Well, I used my Packard gouge when I first got it for a month or so straight, and then one day went back to my HSS Ellsworth gouge. There was a noticeable difference in how they cut through the same wood, sharpened on the same grinding wheel. Mike Mahoney says the same thing, he switches to the HSS gouge for finish cuts.

robo hippy

jefferson
17th May 2011, 05:01 PM
Interesting questions, Bruce.

I have a mix of chisels:

- mostly ordinary Hamlets, though two ASP 2060 steel which seems to last longer
- a stack of P & N bowl gouges
- one Sorby gouge, but some mini tools
- two HT Kryos but another set of minis

I think a main problem lies not so much with the steel itself but the flute shape. Either you like it (and can sharpen it well enough) or you don't.

If I had to start again, I think I'd go all Henry Taylors. Hard to come by here is the main problem. No objective reason for the HT preference, I just like their tools and profiles. A very well finished tool, particularly inside the flutes. Unlike my P & Ns.

China
17th May 2011, 10:36 PM
P&n

Allan at Wallan
17th May 2011, 11:49 PM
Hi Bruce,

It must be a crazy world with a bloke like you from
Broken Hill asking others for advice on steel. :D

Someone will no doubt suggest you buy your chisels
from China but a post from "China" states "P & N".

Regards,

Allan

issatree
18th May 2011, 12:58 AM
Hi all,
I'm a P&N Man, & I haven't veered away, only to buy about 7 Blades of McJing Steel.
Have no Gouges of McJing's, so cannot comment on them, but I cannot Fault the Blades, as in a 25 x 8mm. Skew,
13 x 6mm. Skew, & several Sq's of other lengths I use as Beading Tools.
One reason is they are quite a bit cheaper, with no handle, & they suit me fine, & that's what its all about.
I really do like my P&N's though, really hard to go past, & now the price of these has really risen, & if if I buy, I take unhandled.

Ozkaban
18th May 2011, 09:44 AM
My standard chisels are P&N. Not the fanciest, but are a good mid range chisel and i like using them. I sharpen my skew on a waterstone (more for fun than any other reason, I think :rolleyes: ) and it cuts beautifully.

I have a Thompson 3/8 detail gouge and it's awesome. The comments re sharpening are true - it drops it's initial razor sharpness quicker than the HSS ones, but it holds a decent cutting edge for ages. Sometime you have to remind yourself that it probably is getting blunt and give it a quick sharpen as it just keeps going :2tsup:

If I was buying a batch, they would be thompson. If I was getting one or two, it would be P&N from local sellers, purely as a function of postage costs. Both unhandled.

Cheers,
Dave

eisbaer
18th May 2011, 10:41 AM
Hi all,

I use sorby for the most part. I remember people telling me years ago that sorby tools don't hold an edge well, but I've found they do hold an edge quite well. Obviously compared to the more upmarket steels, they don't compare, but they do fine for me.

I own a woodchuck pen pro for pens, and I've ordered a unitool for bowl turning and moderately deep hollowing. I love the pen pro and I'm sure I'll be stoked with the unitool once it arrives.

Favourite tool for pens is the woodchuck. For bowls, I go to my sorby bowl gouge but when the unitool arrives that may change.

brendan stemp
18th May 2011, 11:30 AM
I have tried several brands including: PN, Sorby, Ashley Isle, and I reckon they are all much of a muchness as far as steel quality goes.

However, even though I have several other brands of bowl gouges the ONLY ones I use now are Woodcut from NZ. Once you have tried them you will never look back. The replaceble tip design provides many advantages over any other bowl gouge, so much so that all my other gouges (of which there would be at least 10) are gathering dust.

PS good to see signs that you're still alive and well Bruce and manageing to get onto your lathe.

bellyup
18th May 2011, 06:58 PM
Thanks for all the replies - well one thing seems evident - there isn't too much rubbish in the market from what has been said. For the most part people use a wide variety of brands and no-one has slammed any one brand as ordinary.
My favourite tool is my 25mm P&N roughing gouge - go figure! But then I do get some pretty ugly lumps to turn to round

Brendan, what size and shape bowl gouge do you use in Woodcut?
Bruce

La truciolara
18th May 2011, 08:08 PM
I'm using several brands depending of the tool I need.
For standard tools Hamlet
For some special ones, Sorby, Vermec,

Grommett
18th May 2011, 10:21 PM
For the last year I have been using Gary Pye's bowl gouges. Favourite being the 1/2 inch, I am on my second. For the price they seem OK but I have to admit I haven't had experience of the upmarket ones. Before that Record from a starter kit.

Ozkaban
18th May 2011, 10:26 PM
Thanks for all the replies - well one thing seems evident - there isn't too much rubbish in the market from what has been said.

I'd beg to differ actually. The cheapie, $120-odd Chinese hss kits are pretty ordinary. Ok if you want lots of cheap sharpening practice....
Cheers,
Dave

brendan stemp
19th May 2011, 10:25 AM
My favourite is the 10mm bowl gouge. Because the Woodcut gouges have a solid shaft you can get away with using a smaller gouge. So a Woodcut 10mm gouge is the equivalent of a 13mm traditional gouge. 13mm replaces 16mm traditional etc. Which one you go for would depend on the size of work you are doing. 10mm is good for anything up to about 300mm in diam.

bellyup
19th May 2011, 01:22 PM
Hey Dave - How do you think I learnt to sharpen??
Bruce.

Sawdust Maker
19th May 2011, 04:56 PM
There will no doubt be another Thompson group buy at some stage

I might even organise it (but after September)

Skew ChiDAMN!!
19th May 2011, 08:09 PM
My faves? Definitely my Thompsons.

But the bulk of my chisels are P&N, simply 'cos IMHO they're the best local (to Aus) value for money. Good steel, suitable for our Oz hardwoods and I absolutely love their skew profiles... but, sadly, P&N do a pretty average job when milling the flutes of their gouges. :~

And don't forget that any ridges/grooves/imperfections in the flute will show on the cutting edge. So, unless you have the luxury of being able to sort through a box of several chisels to select the "best" to take to the cashier, then you need to put a fair amount of elbow grease into prepping them (sanding inside the flute) before they're ready for serious work.

Even so... I gots lots. :U

jefferson
19th May 2011, 08:17 PM
Very interesting Andy that you favour the Thompsons. U or V shape flutes?

If so, how many and what do you recommend?

I love my Henry Taylor Kryos but only have two - and one with an Ellsworth / Irish grind.

Sure, I will wear my P & Ns out before embarking on any serious purchases, but like Bruce and probably so many others, we need a starting point.

What's ideal in terms of a complete kit? A mix of makes probably, but I'd sure like to hear what everyone reckons.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
19th May 2011, 08:41 PM
I like the V-flute for the spindle gouges and U-flute for the bowl-gouges. Mainly 'cos the u gives better shaving flow, while the V makes for strength and less chatter.

Have a 1/2" and a 3/8" of both... or is that 3/8" and 1/4"? I know they're measured differently to the P&Ns, but forget how. :B

FWIW, the Thompsons are my favourite gouges. For skews and scrapers. the P&Ns are as good as any other I've found.

I also have quite a few chaiwanese tools... which are really just for when I want to grind something to a special edge for "one-off" use or to "see how this grind goes." Why waste good steel when the cheap stuff will do just as well? Well... unless and until I decide I want to keep a particular grind anyway. :;

robo hippy
20th May 2011, 04:18 PM
I have one of the Glazer deep V gouges, and don't like it. Doug's V gouge is more of a deep flute, kind of U shaped, and his U gouge is more C shaped. I prefer his V gouge. Now, he has another tool, his 'fluteless'gouge. So, half round bar section for most of the bar length, and no flute. A ) shape on the nose, a short 60 degree nose bevel, and a longer 45 or so degree lower bevel. It is intended for finish cuts on the inside of the bowl, down the side, through the transition, and across the bottom. I have only used it on a few bowls, but it works nicely. Not used to the short bevel, or steep angle, but it gives really clean cuts. It works well on spindles for coves as well.

robo hippy

chuck1
20th May 2011, 09:35 PM
i used a old robert sorby 3/8 bowl gouge today and it went alright but i do like my p&n detial gouge for some bowl work! 12mm deep flute

rsser
21st May 2011, 06:34 PM
As noted, if you want a clean cut the flute should be polished.

Thompson bowl gouges vary in the milling of the flute but generally need only a bit of refining. P&N take a good deal of work to refine. Some are unrecoverable frankly.

HT come from the factory in better nick and only need a bit of work.

And the few Sorby gouges I've had have had most of the work done, and some were exceptional, but I've found the steel quality mixed.

But bottom line, for most turners they'll be doing 'the last cut' with abrasives and the quality of the gouge flute won't be an issue.

It's relevant in other respects but that's another topic.

chuck1
21st May 2011, 07:46 PM
all my gouges are hand honed nice and sharpe :U with a norton india slip stone so they are very polished! found a shop that has old stock of p&n they didnt even know they had them! got them half price!

chuck1
21st May 2011, 07:54 PM
also my skews are p&n and bolher S600 half inch square