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Robomanic
21st May 2011, 09:30 PM
Hi All,

It is finaly time for the wobbly pressed steel legs on my trusty MC1100 (Hare and Forbes WL-20 version) to go. For those unfamiliar with it, I didn't grab a snap but here is the H&F pics from their website. Carbatec sell a similar version with cast iron legs to add more weight, but I also wanted the storage and maybe some draws or racks at the tailstock end for sandpaper etc. I will also need to put a splash back behind it so that finishes and the like don't threaten our bond in this rental.

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Basic framing pine and 18mm ply are the materials here. The main objective is to get a working platform under and behind the bed bars as I have an unbreakable habit of laying turning chisels on the bars between uses. They fall off, nuf said :no:. It will get full of chips so it needs to be a big enough gap to easily got the 80mm vacuum hose in from the shop vac.

I also wanted a bottom shelf and for it to have a lip front and back so things did not vibrate off. It will eventualy have doors and a back. but until then, things won't go sliding out onto my feet :)

I am really enjoying hand cutting the joints at the moment so I though I would go for a mostly screwless frame with dovetailed halving joints, and trenches to hold the ply shelves. I could have gone completely screwless and set the ply ends back from the edge, but wanted the flush surface on the inside of the cabinet, so screws it is.


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#1: The beginings of the dovetails. #2: Sanity check for fit. #3 Detail of rebate for the end ply. Pic #4 is where I did not think things through. the rebate went through all the way as intended, but I did not double check the depth and it actulay undercut the pin of the dovetail. So in the interests of moving forward I decide to play the 'it's a bench' card and do not bring the ply all the way up onto the cross member as intended. It will leave a gap, made worse by the breaking out around the joint, but it is a lesson learnt.

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#1: After the main joints are cut, I glued and screwed up each end piece. #2: The top shelf and bottom shelf have their rails glued on, and are inserted into the end. I accidentaly had the top the wrong way around and was trying to drive it home way too enthousiasticaly. The joint split out so the little clamp is holding it back together until the glue sets the split. I'll pay a lot more attention to my marking next time. #3: Both ends on. No clamps, the joints where a tight driving fit, even with the glue on. This is my first time working with PVA-like glues for a long time and under-estimated the fit leaving them too tight. Once they were home, they were home.

I am very happy to say that right from the start the frame was square and true :o ! I had the ratchet straps out ready to pull it in but in the end did not need to worry about it.

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The next stage is to add the second rail to widen the landing where the lathe bolts down. The plan is to dovetail the rail into the top as with the full post, and mortise the short uprigh into the long rails. I will probably biscuit the assembly onto the existing upright as well. This is mostly asthetic because I'm sure the cast iron bed will not care if there is a little extra pine under it or not. Bit more jointing practice can't hurt anyway.

I'm very keen to try it out but will have to exercise a bit of patience. Maybe another weekend and I should be able to get the Lathe on.

#Edit: Apologies for the quality of the pics. Will pay more attention to the light next time.

Sawdust Maker
22nd May 2011, 08:49 PM
Nice work

if you intend laying your chisels on the shelf under the lathe bed it might not hurt for you to have the front edge a bit scalloped (half circles about 2" diameter) so they can't roll around

ie ````````````````````````````U``````U``````U`````

hope this makes sense - if not I can find a piccy somewhere

Sawdust Maker
22nd May 2011, 09:51 PM
This sort of idea

170762

Robomanic
22nd May 2011, 10:47 PM
Hey SM,

Thanks for the idea on the notches. It is something I am going have a play with because I am not sure in my head what will feel more natural, laying them cross ways with the handles sticking out or laying them in wholy under the lathe parallel with the bed bars. Don't really want them rolling around as you say, but if I brush them with the hip I do want them the move out of the way. It will fill up with chips pretty quick so that might hold them pretty well too.

Bit more (unexpected) progress today. Tails cut in additional uprights, and pins cut in one rail. Second rail to go, then plan the faces back on each for gluing and M&T them into the shelf rails.

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Can't wait for the transplant and hopefuly the drive belt is up to it after laying idle for 12 months. This and a drop saw bench with wings and end stops is something I have been planning for a long time....

Any other suggestions are very welcome.
I thought about gluing some thin rubber (bike inner tube) to the bottoms of the feet but don't want black marks on the concrete I can't get off if/when we move again. Maybe silicon like the new cooking trays and mats won't leave a mark? $ though...

thompy
23rd May 2011, 12:24 AM
how about a lazy suzan type deal but use it for chisels under the bed. bump it no worries it moves, but keeps all the chisels close to hand.

Neal.

Sawdust Maker
23rd May 2011, 09:13 AM
My thought is/was just to hold the couple being used on the particular job
rest them there while changing rest height or whatever

Some sort of storage system could be built at each end, on the ends

Cliff Rogers
23rd May 2011, 09:24 AM
Watching. :)

Robomanic
23rd May 2011, 10:13 AM
Neal, Lazy Susan vertical or horizontal?




Some sort of storage system could be built at each end, on the ends

Agreed. The main reason why I like the thicker ply on the ends, you can hang anything off it. I do have a shadow board that will prob fit there somewhere.

The cupboard is 1200 long. I will prob put in three draws ~500 wide at tailstock end, and split the remaining 700 with 2 cupboard doors... I love flexibility :)

Thanks for the suggestions guys :)

stuffy
23rd May 2011, 12:57 PM
Hi Robomanic,

I've been thinking about a holder for my most used tools that mounts on the end of the lathe stand.
By using a series of pvc pipe or similar, mounted on an angle like scabbards or holsters, the tools could easily slide in and out and always be close at hand.

I'd have to put in some kind of stop so the handles project evenly, maybe a dowel in the top of the tube to catch the handle at the ferrule, but open at the end so shavings fall through.

I'd have to be able to easily identify each tool by the end of it's handle but that's easily done.

I like the idea of drawers and cupboards under the lathe. You could always fill up the cupboards with heavy stuff to add ballast.

Steve
:)

Sawdust Maker
23rd May 2011, 02:04 PM
...

I like the idea of drawers and cupboards under the lathe. You could always fill up the cupboards with heavy stuff to add ballast.

Steve
:)

A lot a chisels can get heavy :D

sjm
23rd May 2011, 02:24 PM
I thought about gluing some thin rubber (bike inner tube) to the bottoms of the feet but don't want black marks on the concrete I can't get off if/when we move again. Maybe silicon like the new cooking trays and mats won't leave a mark? $ though...

I use bike inner tube for holding stuff in my chuck. Works nicely in both compression and expansion modes. But for under the feet, I have some thicker sheet (about 3mm) from Clark Rubber. My feet are about 150x250, and the rubber has stopped all movement, and virtually eliminated vibration and noise. No black marks that I can see, but even if there was, a stiff brush would lift it.

Robomanic
23rd May 2011, 05:09 PM
Yep ballast will be necessary. I want the lathe on the front edge, and it will need to be countered when I swing the headstock out. I was thinking large section scrap steel bolted down the back wall. Still moveable when it is broken down.

Stuffy, I like the PVC tube idea. What do you think about cutting a long tapered wedge out of the back of the length so that it can be clamped up and actualy tapers down the length to wedge the chisel in and it doesn't need to rest on the cutting edge.

The 3mm rubber from Clarke rubber sounds like unexpanded neoprene? That is a good idea, I have some 1mm left over from another job, wish I had of thought of that :p. It is much cleaner too like you say.

Thanks guys

artme
23rd May 2011, 05:15 PM
Looking good Shannon!:2tsup:

hughie
24th May 2011, 10:11 PM
It is finaly time for the wobbly pressed steel legs on my trusty MC1100 (Hare and Forbes WL-20 version


I have been there and had to throw mine away as well, damn near useless legs. I see your no stranger to flat work either. :2tsup:

cookie48
25th May 2011, 05:15 PM
Great idea. I got some rubber mats from Bunnings to stand on. Solid one are very comfy and easy to clean.

Robomanic
28th May 2011, 06:22 PM
I managed to get the tenons cut on the short short stubs this afternoon.


Cutting each long shoulder and chiseling back

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Cutting from corner to corner because of the 'dovetail' front (to make it match the post it is attached to)

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I made two rough chips, then started paring down the face to leave the other two shoulders.

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The finished tenon. You can see the chip out in what was pared as opposed to what has been cut. I guess this would be less pronounced in reall wood, hopefully with a nice clean line where the two faces meet. All good practice though.

It is 20mm long, 50mm wide and 15mm thick and could have been longer but I didn't want to remove too much material in the mortise and weaken the rail right near the halving joint.

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Any comments or suggestions are more than welcome about the dimentions. As you can tell from the multiple markings I was going by what looked about right...

Christos
28th May 2011, 10:31 PM
Watching with interest.

bellyup
29th May 2011, 11:03 AM
Looking good! - how about this for a tool holder?

thompy
29th May 2011, 07:52 PM
If that doesn't help Robo, it will me Bellyup. I've been using my routertable top. Consider that idea pinched.:2tsup:.

And Robo, looking great so far, your a gamer man than i am, your getting pretty accurate with those dovetails and tenons with framing pine, lookin really good mate.

Neal.

Robomanic
29th May 2011, 08:59 PM
That bracket does look pretty handy. Beauty in simplicity there

The 240mm z saw I picked up at the show is just a joy to use. A scrap of wood just has to look at me funny and suddenly there are two :) Gives me the kick to want to cut joints.

Progress wise I got one end glued in today. Still need to cut the mortices for the other end but I'm glad I didn't rush it. There are a few things I wish I had done differently but we'll get to them...

Thanks guys.

thompy
30th May 2011, 07:09 PM
Looking good! - how about this for a tool holder?


If that doesn't help Robo, it will me Bellyup. I've been using my routertable top. Consider that idea pinched.:2tsup:.

And Robo, looking great so far, your a gamer man than i am, your getting pretty accurate with those dovetails and tenons with framing pine, lookin really good mate.

Neal.

Sorry Shan, dont wanna hijack your thread, will say tho for a temp measure 5 mins, an offcut decking board and a part of the old lathe, this tip was gold for me. Idea pinched, parts sourced, manufacture excecuted, in use. Thanks Bellyup just what i was after.

Got any more details on that Z saw mate, it looks good.

Neal.

Robomanic
30th May 2011, 10:53 PM
Sorry Shan, dont wanna hijack your thread,
...

Got any more details on that Z saw mate, it looks good.

...


No problem at all mate. Trying to discuss rose pruning or table cloth ironing would be a hijack :;

The Z saw is this one from Carba-tec. (240mm fine tooth joinery saw)
Fine Tooth Joinery Saw : CARBA-TEC (http://www.carbatec.com.au/fine-tooth-joinery-saw_c5740)

I have the had this one for about 10 years (150mm general purpose saw)
General Purpose Saw : CARBA-TEC (http://www.carbatec.com.au/general-purpose-saw_c5760)

The blades actually make pretty good flexible scrapers too which is an added bonus when they go too dull.
I've bought 3 blades for the 150mm saw in that time so I guess 2-3 years each. It has been my fault every time for cutting something I shouldn't or getting carried away (cutting somethig I shouldnt) and bending the tip, Usually while rushing a job. They do pick up rust so keep them off the bench in draw when not in use and in the cover they come in if possible. Most frustrating thing is rusting one side (side facing up when left on bench) and it kills the teeth on that side plus extra drag, so it will always pull to the sharper side from that day on.

Cannot comment between brands of these saws, but I always felt more comfotable with these vs a tenon or dovetail saws becasue of the different handle orientaiton.

Hope this helps (and that's how you hijack a thread!).

Robomanic
4th June 2011, 11:30 PM
Quick update on today's efforts.

Two remaining mortices to be chopped. All marked out, First cuts then first pass all round.

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Test fit before the mortice gets too deep.

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I glued the top rail into the end pices then inserted the assembly into the two sockets with glue on the faces between them as well.

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Not 100% acurate or furniture grade but worth the excercise in finding what is worth putting time into, and what is overkill. I am confident that these mounts for the bed will never shake apart.

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Next is to resurect the plane and smooth off the top to make each mount flat and true before bolting down the bed.

Getting close :U

artme
5th June 2011, 09:21 AM
Well on the way there Shannon!:2tsup:

Paul39
5th June 2011, 11:09 AM
Very nice!

You may want to put the back on sooner than later to keep from racking the frame side to side and loosening your glue joints.

This would most likely only happen if you put a big out of balance bowl blank on the lathe with the spindle facing the side.

clarky
7th June 2011, 09:52 AM
Hi may look a bit rough, but works well for me.

Sawdust Maker
7th June 2011, 10:47 AM
I see a problem with your bench

shavings are going to be a pain in the rear to clear from that shelf. You might want to consider a piece of, say, masonite sloping from the front, just under the lathe to the back so shavings slide onto the floor at the rear
[hope that makes sense]

clarky
7th June 2011, 12:26 PM
I assume you mean me (clarky), Thanks, good idea. I have a big dust remover, which is not visible, behind the lathe and going under the bench, not perfect but works well.

Robomanic
7th June 2011, 05:39 PM
Could also be mine... Might have to help us here SM

Clarky, PVC looks good. I may well resort to something just like that if this does not work out as intended.

Shavings will collect and I actually dont mind too much. 80% of spindle shavings end up in the catcher attached to my toolrest, and bowl shavings spay all over the place anyway. I was kind of hoping that what did build up on the shelf would give me something to jam the chisels into between changes. The is good clearance in and around to swing the 4" DE hose to clean it out when needed.

Should get a chance to try it out this weekend so Ill let you know.

Robomanic
12th June 2011, 07:00 PM
With thompy's help I got the headstock back on and transplant basically complete today :) :) :)

Thanks for your help again mate, it was nice to catch up with you again and meet your lovely wife.

http://tapatalk.com/mu/7bd35ec7-7138-6f78.jpg

Front to back it is rock solid thanks to the ply, but end to end I can get a fundamental going so as mentioned earlier, the back ply will need to go on soon to take the flex out of the frame. 100 times better than it was though and definitely stiff enough to use as is.

Ozkaban
12th June 2011, 07:47 PM
Wow, that came up a treat. Gotta be happ with that! :2tsup:

thompy
13th June 2011, 11:06 AM
Absolutly my pleasure mate, i didn't do that much, you did the lifting, i was just an extra pair of hands breifly, was awesome to catch up and have a chat an a coffee in good company mate, between you and me and the forum, me getting to see your setup was great for me and the wife seeing the stuff i haven't gotten yet is gold:U. My Kerry wasn't 100m down the road before it started:roll:,

"How was the coffee it looked like you enjoyed it? It's a really nice machine they have, i definatly see K's point, when you use it every day its worth the expense, i LOVE the split level house, really nice to have the areas separated, there was a bedroom downstairs too, and i like the underhouse storage, did you notice how the entertaining / kitchen area flows onto the deck, i like the open plan kitchen! They all (you, your missus and the lad) seem like nice people...." and so on and so forth.

I thought the cramped position i had her in might have helped me on the drive home but alas..

Its all coming together Shan, the pics don't do those joints justice, its quite solid, and thank you for the old legs, they are longer than mine but its the shelf that sets the distance, when i get some potter about time i'll see what i can do.

Neal.

Robomanic
13th June 2011, 09:09 PM
:) Neal. Thanks for the kind review.

Maybe seeing a few things in action greases the wheels a bit...

Got a bit done this arv. Two draws for the tailstock end. I probably should have dovetail trenched the sides into the front because I'm not real happy about the look of the screws. Eh, it's a bench and this was two hours not 4 if I had to try and set up for that.

http://tapatalk.com/mu/7bd35ec7-df17-86a8.jpg

http://tapatalk.com/mu/7bd35ec7-df38-1a0b.jpg

They are 230 deep (overall, inside is about 205) which is more than I wanted but liked it better than three under 150.
The bottoms are trenched (table saw) into the sides, but flush front and back. It's a bit quick and dirty but it's strong. Glued and screwed together.

http://tapatalk.com/mu/7bd35ec7-e042-35b0.jpg

Next is the partition frame to hang the left hand of draws off and connect top and bottom shelves together and take some of the 'drum' out of them. Two doors for the cupboard and I'm nearly there.

Robomanic
9th July 2011, 10:36 PM
I made a bit more progress today. Got the partition in and finished mounting the draws. The door frames have been made up but I have not routed the rebate or cut the ply for them yet.

Each of the posts is notched in with a very simple recess. If I planned ahead properly this would have been a full mortise and tenon holding the two shelves together bofore I slotted the end assemblies on, but that's hindsight.... I would not have had to take to the notches on the underside of top shelf lying on my back either.

I missed a couple of steps in the pics. The 12mm ply is rebated into the posts on the draw side, and the corners top and bottom are notched out to fit around the rails. Everything is glued together with Titebond III and the ply is tacked down with 20mm broadheads.

The draw runners are mounted in a fairly arbitrary way, but if the draw sides were solid timber I would have mounted them at the bottom rather than the top. I mark the center line for the runner, and the front hole. I mount the runner to the draw first then with the runner closed measure from the front of the draw to the first screw on the outside of the runner that will be fixed to the side of the cabinet. I can then measure off the height I want the runner at, and bring the first hole back from the front based on that measurement. I put one screw in at the front and then line the runner up with the centre line and populate the rest of the holes. There is about a 2mm gap top, between and below the draws and about 1-2mm at each side.

These will be finished off with rope handles with maybe a wooden handle threaded over for a grip.

Thanks for watching.

(I'm also officially giving up on the iPhone for pics. I think its been dropped one too many times on its face)

Christos
9th July 2011, 10:52 PM
Thank you for the update.

Robomanic
23rd July 2011, 11:08 AM
Starting to look pretty complete now :)
Just the back panel to seal up the cupboard and draws and the splashback to go.
http://tapatalk.com/mu/7bd35ec7-1060-b60b.jpg

http://tapatalk.com/mu/7bd35ec7-107a-3200.jpg

rsser
23rd July 2011, 01:38 PM
Nice work Shannon.

You might see how she goes first without putting rubber under the feet. Anything compressible can set up a harmonic vibe. If you do have to rubberize, see if you can get some conveyor belt material; v. dense with fibre reinforcing. But a really flat concrete floor is a blessing.

Sawdust Maker
23rd July 2011, 02:00 PM
Looks like it was specially made for the job

oh it was :doh: - nice :2tsup::2tsup:

rsser
23rd July 2011, 07:14 PM
Sorry, to add, if the floor is good and flat, just bolt the legs down.

With a swivel head, good cross-bracing is essential. Seems like you've got that.

Robomanic
23rd July 2011, 07:56 PM
Thanks guys. If it wasn't a rental, I would probably bolt it down. Yeah Ern the conveyer belt rubber would be good. I was after anything that would deaden the vibrations and avoiding 'springy' rubbers. I was pretty much just looking for something thin and a little compliant to help it 'stick' in place.

thompy
23rd July 2011, 08:49 PM
Looking the bizz now Shan, really coming along mate, great stuff.

Neal.

RETIRED
23rd July 2011, 08:51 PM
Ya wanna watch out Shannon, you might have to use it soon. :whistling2: :D

Robomanic
23rd July 2011, 09:03 PM
Thanks boys.


Ya wanna watch out Shannon, you might have to use it soon. :whistling2: :D

:p keepin' it real as alway ... :D

Cliff Rogers
23rd July 2011, 10:04 PM
Schmico. :2tsup: