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View Full Version : A few thoughts about Ornamental Turning and design?



Miner
18th September 2011, 09:46 AM
G'day from Canada, And my first post here.
I was emailing back and forth with a good friend about Ornamental Turning earlier today. I've been studying the home built rose engines off and on for awhile. So far I haven't done any O.T. and this is written from a metal working tool owners perspective. (Lathe and milling machine.) I also own most of the currently avalible O.T. books.

I do very little with wood and prefer to work with metal due to the dust etc issues around precision metal working tools. I've also just found the Lindow White rose engine site. I'm sure their equipment is worth the cost but because I have a lathe and mill I see very little that couldn't be reproduced in metal using welded structures for the headstock and mount for the rubbers. I have no idea how many members here have metal working machine tool experience so I'm unsure just how many could provide design thoughts about my following points.

No.1
Obviously to do O.T. even in the softer metals it would require a heavier built and more rigid machine. I was thinking of ordering a replacement spindle for my current metal lathe. It's a Weiss 280 VS-F. This spindle is hardened and has a MT 4 internal spindel taper, By using an extra spindle all chucks and faceplates I already own could be used. These lathe spindles are designed to be used with tapered roller bearings but to provide the straight line motion on a rose engine then bronze oilite or cast iron sleeve bearings could be used and the spindle could also be easily removed to add or subtract various patterns.

No.2
I could build the headstock to temporarily mount on my lathe bed in front of the lathes fixed headstock and then use the saddle, cross,top slides, and tool holders already on the lathe. Long work could use the lathes tailstock with a spring loaded live center.

No.3
Vertex Machinery build a fairly good 6" rotary table with a bronze wormwheel that's bolted to the bottom of the table. Ordering just the worm and worm wheel from them and mounting it to the spindle along with the dividing plates I already have would provide very accurate indexing. An additional pin index would also be useful.

No.4
My milling machine has a R-8 internal taper. Little Machine Shop in the U.S. sell a complete Sieg X2 variable speed milling head that's actully about the best part on a X2 mill for a little under $400. This would be used on the lathes cross or top slide and also use most of my R-8 tooling.

No.5
They make variable speed ultra low rpm worm driven motors. One of these would be ideal to provide power rotation to the headstock. A belt driven hand drive would be used also for very slow rotating work.

I've got a few more design thoughts and questions but this is long enough for now. I'd appreciate anyones ideas both positive and negitive about my post.

Pete

hughie
19th September 2011, 10:51 AM
You could do all that, but I suspect the wood dust etc would not do much for your machine tools. I would be inclined given your current work shop equipment, to make some version of a OT lathe. They can be small and its easy to separate the two work shops.

I have a small shop with some machines tools in one side and a couple of wood lathes as well plus bandsaws etc.

What I am doing [ not done as yet] Is to partition my two shops with clear plastic strips around 150mm or 6" wide over lapping 50%. I have a gable roof or pitched roof to the shop. So here I will leave a sizable gap for ventilation at the apex.

This will separate the two and I will draw air/ventilation from the machine shop side to the wood turning area and on to the outside world. This should keep the metal side clear of the dust and also from a OHS perspective keep the wood side clear as well .

Miner
19th September 2011, 01:07 PM
Hughie,
Thanks for your thoughts, With over 50 views this morning and no replys to a first post on this forum I thought somehow I'd insulted everyone unknowingly. :D

Nope, There shouldn't be any wood dust as I only want to do O.T. with metal, (brass and stainless) Plus given where I live there's no chance of making my shop larger or adding a seperate wood shop. I'm using a spare bedroom for my shop, 10' 5" x 11'5". I'm embarassed to say I have 2 metal working lathes, An 1100 lb 3/4 sized Bridgeport clone mill, An Atlas horizontal mill, and a South Bend 7" shaper in that area along with the needed tooling. I'm about out of room. So that's why I had the idea to build a Rose Engine headstock as an addition to my metal lathe to be set up and used only when needed. It's not ideal but then my shop size isn't either.

I've yet to even see a rose engine working in person let alone operate one, So I was hopeing for everyones constructive criticism and any thoughts they had, Or anything I haven't allowed for yet in my design ideas. Even some rough ideas about how much the distance needs to be between the headstock bearings to allow for patterns or the minimum needed to allow the pumping action on the spindle. ANY information would be very usefull to me. I'd much rather design and build this once instead of thinking later I should or could have..............?

Pete

Sturdee
19th September 2011, 04:58 PM
Hughie,
Thanks for your thoughts, With over 50 views this morning and no replys to a first post on this forum I thought somehow I'd insulted everyone unknowingly. :D


Pete

I'm one of the viewers and not insulted at all. I don't know much about this area but am interested so I read but don't post. :D


Peter.

hughie
20th September 2011, 09:42 AM
[Thanks for your thoughts, With over 50 views this morning and no replys to a first post on this forum I thought somehow I'd insulted everyone unknowingly. :D



OT forum is not real active and probably has not got a big following. A guys like find the rose engine lathe fascinating but really dont want to own one. Having said that I have always thought of bulding one just for the challenge of doing so. :no: Must be my tool making background makes me a bit of metal working tragic. :U





Nope, There shouldn't be any wood dust as I only want to do O.T. with metal, (brass and stainless) Plus given where I live there's no chance of making my shop larger or adding a seperate wood shop. I'm using a spare bedroom for my shop, 10' 5" x 11'5". I'm embarassed to say I have 2 metal working lathes, An 1100 lb 3/4 sized Bridgeport clone mill, An Atlas horizontal mill, and a South Bend 7" shaper in that area along with the needed tooling. I'm about out of room. So that's why I had the idea to build a Rose Engine headstock as an addition to my metal lathe to be set up and used only when needed. It's not ideal but then my shop size isn't either.


I would say you admirably set up to do this, more so than most folks. Yep it would be a bit squeezy in there, sorta sounds like mine :U

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f22/rose-engine-up-running-104036/ have alook at this guy, he has a very good machine shop set up. Hes got a website somewheres but I cant find it




I've yet to even see a rose engine working in person let alone operate one, So I was hopeing for everyones constructive criticism and any thoughts they had, Or anything I haven't allowed for yet in my design ideas. Even some rough ideas about how much the distance needs to be between the headstock bearings to allow for patterns or the minimum needed to allow the pumping action on the spindle. ANY information would be very usefull to me. I'd much rather design and build this once instead of thinking later I should or could have..............?



Well that makes sense, pick through the existing designs and make imporovments where you can as you go along. Thats my general modis operandi with most stuff I do.

I would real interested in seeing your progress, keep us in the loop. :2tsup:


Oh! welcome aboard. :2tsup: I spent some time in BC during the 70's loved every minute of it.

Miner
20th September 2011, 02:34 PM
Hugie,
Thanks again, I was beginning to think the same about just how active this forum is. I really don't like posting the same questions on more than one forum but I may join and re-post my thoughts over on the Ornamental Turners International forum. It appears that they have far more OTs with metal working equipment. That's certainly not meant as an insult to anyone here. I'd think the majority by far of OT's are woodworkers.

LOL, Thanks for the link to Old-Biker-UK (Mark) and his Rose Engine build. A few years ago I found his website. At that time he hadn't built a Rose Engine yet but he had built a Geometric Chuck. That alone is no small and easy job. It's also a project I'd like to do in the future. I also think Mark is a hell of a craftsman. His method for making the persperex rosettes were almost exact to how I'd figured on building mine. Allthough his bump type rosettes using studs and acorn style nuts were a new and clever idea to me.

For now this Rose Engine project is a bit down the road. But once I start it I'll be sure to post my progress. I'm in the pre-planning for planning stage right now.:rolleyes:

Thanks for the welcome. I doubt you'd recognise much of Vancouver now as there's been huge changes since the 70's. Maybe a lot of it not for the better in my opinion.

Pete

hughie
21st September 2011, 01:26 AM
Pete, Yeah I collected alot of info thinking I would build one, nah :U I was just kidding myself, so I passed it onto Wheelin [Ray] . It still fascinates me the effects that can achieved. But I have more than enough on my plate at the present and well into the future..
Good luck with the project.

cheers :2tsup:

QC Inspector
22nd September 2011, 03:47 AM
Hi Pete

I too am interested in OT and also plan to get there myself someday.:rolleyes: You will find that OT has a very small following so on any site or forum you won't find the traffic that occur with other hobbies and passions. I belong to the OTI and there are about 250 +/- members so in some ways it is a solitary pursuit.

I think I can envision what you want to do and have a suggestion or two.

Rather than try to make your RE headstock rock and have the spindle pump, use the tapered roller bearings and instead have the entire headstock incorporate linear bearings or slides at the base to provide the two motions. You have a constant tool height and there are no pattern distortions due to the short arc you would end up with your present plan.

Rather than mounting the rosettes between the headstock bearings like the traditional ones do, mount them as needed at the outboard end like Jon Magill did with his MDF Rose engines. Most of the time you only use one at at time and occasionally two and can change them and modify them without breaking down the entire headstock.

If you don't want to play with wood there are a couple of plastics that look good when decorated. Alternate Ivory and Cast Acrylic Rod work well. Bonnie Klein makes very nice pieces from the Cast Acrylic. I bought the blue one below from her at the 2010 OTI Symposium. It is about 1 3/4" / 45mm tall and the ornamentation is inside the little box. Machinable wax works well for quick experiments. I have also seen a couple pieces done in pewter that look good when done.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182287&stc=1&d=1316622709

Have fun with your project.
Pete

Miner
22nd September 2011, 05:02 AM
Hi Pete,
You and I have posted back and forth a few times on another forum a few years ago.

Yeah suprisingly OT does have a small following as far as actuly doing it.

Your ideas about using linear bearings are damned clever. That would definatly help with the rigidity required for OT metal. I've had to give myself multiple mental forehead slaps because I should have thought of that. Also mounting the rosettes on the outboard spindle end like what's used for a plain change gear lathe are ideal due to as you said not having to break down the entire headstock. That idea speeds up and simplifies things a lot.

Yeah I have thought about the use of some of the plastics also and Corian too. I haven't researched it enough, But it's my understanding that Dupont will only suppy the proper glue to licenced dealers for building up blocks of whatever thickness is needed. I also haven't totally ruled out using wood on a limited basis along with a shop vac exhausted outside.

Since we both live in the same province/country have you bought any of the S.O.T.'s dvd's? Their in a format that isn't compatiple with our normal dvd's but there must be a way to convert them.

Again thanks for the ideas. Their very much appreciated.

Pete

hughie
22nd September 2011, 10:06 AM
Yeah I have thought about the use of some of the plastics also and Corian too. I haven't researched it enough, But it's my understanding that Dupont will only suppy the proper glue to licenced dealers for building up blocks of whatever thickness is needed. I also haven't totally ruled out using wood on a limited basis along with a shop vac exhausted outside.




Pete,
Dunno about in Canada but over in Oz theres a lot of off cuts to be had for a low cost or zero from various kitchen makers etc. They also have the glue etc to join, most [ well here] are rather curious about turning Corian and often will let you rummage through the scrap box as most of it goes into the garbage anyway.

Miner
22nd September 2011, 10:31 AM
Hughie,
Thanks for the tip. I'll need to check that out next time I'm in the big city. If the counter top manufacturers knew how much people pay for Corian pen blanks they wouldn't be throwing the sink cutouts away. I'll not be mentioning that if I find any suppliers.:D

Pete

wheelinround
1st October 2011, 05:19 PM
Hi Miner welcome to the OT section and the forum itself.

I have been away home a week and only just seen this thread, to me your set up is already more than what is needed to get you going in OT. A lathe and mill (I wish I had the room and then the machines). Of course this depends on the type of work you want to produce. Oh and metal wise its called Engine Turning.

For A Rose Engine doing metal work watch this video from RGM
(http://www.rgmwatches.com/about_rgm/engine_turning.php)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VKASuwatG0&feature (http://www.youtube.com/v/9VKASuwatG0&autoplay=1)



I just found this as I was doing a search for CNC Rose Engine

5 axis cnc routed Pineapple file - YouTube

In this section on OT if you go back through some of the posts you'll find mentioned Alan Battersby and Bill Ooms they can also be found on the OTI CNC section.

Like Hughie says Rose Engines and OT are fascinating I enjoy the little I do using the ones I borrow from club members here.
I started build mine 3 or so years ago, space and time and health caused a slow progress. Recently I have had a spurt of good fortune with members encouragement, such as Hughie passing on usable materials bits and pieces. I picked up an old Sher Drill press which may become the basis for my set up. Even today I got a further boost with 2 more motors with reduction gear boxes, some steel blocks.

Whats the type of OT work your aiming for just surface decoration like the RGM video or shaping as in the 2nd video.


(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3d0fueNr30&feature=related)

Miner
1st October 2011, 07:36 PM
G'day Wheelinround,
Thanks for the welcome. Now that's a pretty complicated 5 axsis cnc. I'm not contemplating anything like that...............Well at least for now anyway.

I've seen a few of the YouTube videos about OT, But that RGM one is new to me. Awesome video. Thanks for the link. I didn't know OT in metal was called Engine Turning. They use the same term to describe overlapping swirls that are done on metal with grinding paste or wire rotating brushes and with standard metal working machines. Even a drill press with a simple spaceing fixture will do the work.

Yeah you are correct that with what I have right now I could do some limited Ornamental Turning. The more I read and learn about OT then the more possibilities I see with the equipment I already have.

Owning a metal working lathe and mill? Yes they obviously have some great benifits, But at least for a mill it's relentless on the requirements for cutting tools that you don't already own, Accesories and attachments can be VERY expensive depending on the complexity and quality. It never seems to end. And that's for a manual mill. CNC can in some ways be cheaper as the machines movements do a lot of things that on a manual mill would require a seperate accessory like a dividing head or rotary table. LOL, But they make those cnc'd too. You could easilly blow $50,000 on a fairly small industrial cnc mill. Then you have to buy tooling on top of that. Hobby type cnc can of course be done far cheaper. My computer skills are not even close to what's needed for that.

I'll for sure go thru this forum and check out the people you've mentioned. I'm positive I'll learn a lot.

Mostly I'd just like to get my feet wet in Ornamental Turning, A Rose Engine looked simpler than a full ornamental lathe. While the RGM video showing really beautifull Guilloche work is nice, It doesn't appeal to me as much as Ornamental Turning.

Normaly I wouldn't post the same question on more than one forum, But after looking thru the Ornamental Turners International forum I decided to post my questions there too because it seems like far more members have the capability to machine metal. Suprisingly the first person to reply to my post was David Lindow who builds and sells the Lindow/White Rose Engines. He's changed my design thoughts a huge ammount. My inexperience about OT shows. Between people on this forum and the OTI I'm learning a lot.

Pete

wheelinround
2nd October 2011, 10:28 AM
Pete if you can afford one of the Lindlow White machines make sure you post here when its assembled :U

As you are looking into OT using metal can you describe or maybe show other things which have been done or you have pics of so we can help more.

Miner
2nd October 2011, 12:59 PM
Hi Wheelin,
Yeah I can/could afford a L/W rose engine, But my main issue is, While I'm ok with the cost, I'm space poor in my shop. My wife and I are in the middle of an extensive home reno that appears to be an endless time and money sucking pit. I made a very stupid error in judgement and decided to reno my shop 2 years ago along with the home reno. The wife unit thinks (and to be honest I have to agree) that the home reno has priority. So I'm sitting here in a 3/4 finished home reno and a shop that needs extensive work so it's even usable. That was a very,very stupid move on my part.

But, Since I've first posted my questions and thoughts here, And along with the input I got from David Lindow, I've started to re assess my ideas about building a Rose Engine rigid enough to be used for metal. David advised me he's done some of it, But he's positive that the huge increase in cutting time (10-20 times longer) wouldn't make it cost effective time wise for what you end up with. Since I have no experience with OT and he has years, Then I really have to think he's correct as far as rose engine OT goes.

My original redesign for my shop was to allow for additional equipment that I've bought. My shop size is 10'6"x11'6." A mostly complete list of what equipment HAS to fit within it is, An 1100 lb 3/4 sized Bridgeport clone mill, An Emco compact 5 lathe and rear mounted mill, A 500 lb 11"x27" lathe with a rear mounted 150 lb mill, A 7" South Bend shaper, A small Atlas horizontal mill, And a generic Chinese horizontal metal cutting bandsaw. Bench grinders etc,etc. I also want and need open bench top space to buy and use a good quality 18"x24" granite surface plate. On top of this I have the absolute need for ample drawer storage and protection space for all the tooling and measureing tools.I still need some open bench top space to do work also. It looks very tough, But on paper my redesign works. I've got more than enough experience to allow enough working room. So I do know my original layout will work. Maybe? with some shifting and tightening up just a fraction in multiple areas it just might be possible to gain enough extra space to shoehorn a Lindow/White Rose Engine in? I'd still have the wood dust issues, But with some thought, I think I can work around those in a logical way. A Rose Engine would be an addition to my shop and not the whole reason for having a shop. I don't think I'd use it so much that the time setting up to protect everything else would become a tiresome issue. And I also think I'd use it enough to justify the cost. Obviously I need to make a decision soon about buying from Lindow White and allow for it, Or go with my original thought and build one for use on my larger lathe. Reducing or selling any of my equipment to fit a Rose Engine in is not an option in my opinion.

LOL, And yes. For sure if I buy a L/W rose engine I'll post pictures of the details. I think I owe everyone a lot who has posted in this thread. As expensive as tools like this are for us in North America, I've read more than enough about how you Aussies and also NZs get positively screwed by the tool dealers over in your countrys. For what it's worth you have my sympathy.

As far as an example of what interests me for non rose engine work? If you have the T.D. Walshaw book about OT, The front cover picture shows some examples that could be done in metal without buying or making much more than a few cutting tools in addition to what I already have. I recently bought a Vertex universal dividing head. I need to redesign and build a replacement X axis leadscrew bearing hanger with a cutout in it to mount different gears to the end of the X axis leadscrew on my milling machine.. That would allow driving the dividing head for rotation along with the X axis Table leadscrew at the same time. Think of a helix or a really streched out thread and you can then visulise what it's capable of. One of the reasons among many that I bought it was for future OT type work. Equipment like this isn't as fast to use as any of the old OT type lathes and accessories But it can do a lot of the same work.

Pete

QC Inspector
2nd October 2011, 02:17 PM
Pete

I fully understand your space issues even though I have lots more than you but packratitus is an ongoing problem here. :roll:

One way to get your feet wet would be to buy a 5C spin index to use as a headstock. It has been done before and doesn't work half bad. The other upside is that they are cheap, go on sale often for less than $50.00 and if you don't go further can be used on your mill as originally intended. There are a few pictures in the OTI Gallery that Steve White made with one.

OTI :: Steve White's 5C Rose Engine (http://www.ornamentalturners.org/forum/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=1710)

The other is to make a Rambling Rose Engine lathe with the impressive tools you have this winter and play with it next spring thru fall. It is small enough to put away under a bench and perfect to play with on a table outside when the weather is suitable. No wood dust in the shop. :wink: I've seen it and it is a nice little unit. By the way much of the dust that comes off a rose engine is very fine, think hair fine, and will likely blow away to become part of the lawn.

Custom Rambling Rose Engine & Ornamental lathe - demonstrate, teach, design, construction, plans (http://ornamentalroseengine.com/rre/index.htm)

A note about solid surface materials. They are made of Quartz or other minerals and acrylic resins. I don't think the dust would be any nicer to your machines than hardwood would.

Pete

wheelinround
2nd October 2011, 03:14 PM
Have you both looked at your locations Canada 205 km, 3 hours 18 mins via Crowsnest Hwy/BC-3 W ok so a little distance check top right of the box in each others posts.


Google Maps (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&tab=wl)

Gee the OTGA here had a member travel 1200k's round trip to come to meetings.

Is there an Ornamental Turners group in Canada maybe OTI or the SOT know of more like minded people maybe start a group.

Now freaky is both called Pete:o

Now going to have to call you Miner ain't I and QC :doh:
Miner not much smaller is my workshop the suggestion by QC is a good one or you can build one like we use check out the Ornamental Turners Group gallery (http://www.otga.org.au/GalleryEquip.htm) 3 pages of various machines.

http://www.otga.org.au/GalleryEquip2_files/Rose1.jpg

Miner
2nd October 2011, 03:22 PM
Hi Pete,
You have again come up with some interesting points.

"Packratitus" (cough, cough) I may have neglected to mention the 2'x11'6" closet space I have in my shop. Opening the doors could be life threatening.

That idea about the 5c spin index is really good. I needed one more excuse to buy a full set of 5c's. And a spin index would be useful for other work too. I just checked out Steve's pictures. Very clever. I would have never thought to combine things like that. It's obvious where the current L/W rose engine started out.

"Impressive tools" I'm certainly happy and greatful for what I have but if I had to do it again I probably would have done things slightly different. LOL, I would have moved.

Your point about something smaller/cheaper is a great one. It would be much easier to at least make a few semi informed decisions after getting a little experience.

There's some really good design information in that Rambling Rose Engine link. Many thanks for posting that. It's going to take awhile to go thru what's on the site.

Thanks again Pete, You've been a huge help.

Edited to add,
Wheelin, You type faster than I do. Yeah I did know QC's location, In fact we've discussed OT a bit on another forum a year or 2 ago. I think it was the chaski site if I remember right. The speed I type at it would be much faster to phone him. Really have to thank you for the machine links. Those will help a lot.

Pete

QC Inspector
2nd October 2011, 03:35 PM
Yup we know how far we are apart. :wink: The drive will get longer soon once the snow starts falling for the winter. :oo: But since both of us have not got a machine there wouldn't be much that we couldn't show and discuss by email or Skype for now.

There are members that meet in Washington at Jon Magill's (the MDF guy) shop once a year or so. There are usually about 20ish people that come with about 8 - 10 bringing their MDF's. The other Pete would be welcome there if he wished to come (valid passport needed :rolleyes:) and I will let him know when the next one is held.

You can call us Pete and Re-Pete. :2tsup:

Pete

wheelinround
2nd October 2011, 03:46 PM
Yup we know how far we are apart. :wink: The drive will get longer soon once the snow starts falling for the winter. :oo: But since both of us have not got a machine there wouldn't be much that we couldn't show and discuss by email or Skype for now.

There are members that meet in Washington at Jon Magill's (the MDF guy) shop once a year or so. There are usually about 20ish people that come with about 8 - 10 bringing their MDF's. The other Pete would be welcome there if he wished to come (valid passport needed :rolleyes:) and I will let him know when the next one is held.

You can call us Pete and Re-Pete. :2tsup:

Pete


:lolabove:

Your going to allow a little snow to slow you down then again you have said about modern technology.:2tsup:

So it begins the Canadian Ornamental Turners Association COTA for short :p
or should that be
Canada Ornamental Association Turners COAT could call it the old COAT's:;

Miner
2nd October 2011, 03:52 PM
"Snow"? I use to drive tractor trailer across Canada in the dead of winter, 3,000 miles a week, Snow,rain,black ice. I usually speed up in the snow now. It keeps the real idiots away from me.:p

(miner) Pete

QC Inspector
2nd October 2011, 04:02 PM
Hi Pete,
It's obvious where the current L/W rose engine started out.

Pete

Actually Re-Pete :) the design of the L/W came from Steve's love of the old straightline engines that were used for Guilloche decoration of watches, cigarette cases, compacts, pens and....... He used the layout for basis of the
rose engine he developed with David Lindow.

The 5C Spindex version was inspired by another OTI member, Randy Knapp. I have some pictures of his that are unfortunately on another virus plagued laptop and I can't get much off it. :( One advantage of the 5C is that an object turned on one lathe with 5C will still be pretty much concentric when mounted in another machine. So rough turned on a metal lathe, decorated on the 5C rose engine and then remounted in the collet of the 1st lathe for additional turning and then switched to a 5C fixtured on a milling machine, and back to the rose engine. You get the idea. :p

Pete

QC Inspector
2nd October 2011, 04:07 PM
Now let's not start calling each other names. :oo:

Oh! Sorry. Thought you said old GOAT. :-

Re-Pete I drive a Smarty. When it snows I stay home!!! :D

Pete

Miner
2nd October 2011, 04:17 PM
Yeah I've wanted a 5C collet chuck for my lathe for quite awhile now. Adding 5c capabilities to my shop would be a huge bonus for almost everything. A few extra adapter mounts would have to be made for the mill table, R/T and Dividing head but I was planning on those anyway.

Wheelin,:D good one.

(miner) Pete

wheelinround
2nd October 2011, 04:21 PM
plans are available you have the tools ......minor oops miner-Pete

How to Make an "Exact Adjust" 5C Collet Chuck (http://www.modelengineeringforum.net/index.php?topic=45.0)

dogcatcher
3rd October 2011, 06:50 AM
Wheelinround, do you have a link to the construction of the OT machine in your post? I have seen it or something like it in the past. In my junk pile and with my lathe chucks etc, I have the basics to make one, I have the 1" all thread, an index wheel, the same chuck as pictured, plus a junk pile of steel and aluminum.

thanks

Marvin

Miner
3rd October 2011, 08:10 AM
Marvin,
Since your located in the U.S. I'll mention a few machine tool suppliers that You may not know about, For scratch building equipment they offer a huge ammount of off the shelf parts that could be used. Unless you have machine tools, Most woodworkers don't really know about just what's avalible. Depending on what your looking for it may require a bit of time using various search terms on their websites.

I'd throw direct links on here except for the fact I don't know how. Try Googleing

MSC Indusrial supply.
Grainger industrial supply
Enco
McMaster Carr
Even Ebay would have some parts that could be used from equipment that has been parted out.

There's many others too. It's easy to get items like handwheels, Acme rod and nuts, metal, bearings of any type, Collet chucks, Plain arbours, And on and on. Some of it might require a little light machining to suit your design, if your not set up for that then any small machine shop could easily do the work. The above companys are really handy for hard to get parts.

:no: I'm not responsible for the reduction in your cash flow if you visit any the above sites.:D

Pete

dogcatcher
3rd October 2011, 08:27 AM
I found the plans for it, you can find it at this link. RoseEngine (http://woodartbyjack.homestead.com/roseengine.html)

I use ENCO and McMaster Carr for most of my supplies. I am a game call maker, as in coyote and turkey calls, for some of my tooling I have to make it myself, so I have an Atlas 618 and an import 7x12 lathe. And access to 2 machine shops.

The link said to expect to spend $200, being a gadget maker, I know that the $200 is $400 before I start. In this case I have the index wheel, the 1" all thread with nuts, the Nova chuck, and a scrap pile of lumber, plywood, steel and aluminum. Which in translation means the $200 that is really $400 will soon be $600.

Marvin

Miner
3rd October 2011, 09:03 AM
Marvin,
I'd say your cost analysis is much closer to the truth. I've also found if a mark 2 model is built just to make some personal improvements then the cost gets doubled again.

Thanks for posting that link, That's a new one that I hadn't seen before. Your well set up to do any machining that would be required. One company I forgot to mention, Small Parts .com They had a lot of design information on that site the last time I checked.

Pete

dogcatcher
3rd October 2011, 09:11 AM
Before ordering from Small Parts, check on Amazon, they are a seller for Small Parts. I get my copper and brass wire from Amazon, that is from Small Parts. I found the shipping to be cheaper, and if you have a Prime account with Amazon the shipping can be free.

After looking at the plans, I realized I am way ahead of the game, I also have the cross slide and a trim router, that means my cost will probably easily exceed my $600 estimate. But this will have to wait, hunting season has started and making calls will have to take priority.

Marvin

wheelinround
3rd October 2011, 09:46 AM
Hi Marvin welcome

I see Pete has been busy filling you in :2tsup: another style of Rose Engne is one we based ours on here downunder by Geoff OLaughlin (http://pwguild.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52:rose-engine-1&catid=27:ornamental-turning&Itemid=73) or this one by John Lee (http://pwguild.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62:rose-engine-2&catid=27:ornamental-turning&Itemid=73)

Yes all to true the expense can run away no matter what you take on many of our OTGA members make a basic and it becomes a WiP from there always tweaking. Its amazing where parts bit n pieces can come from free.:;

You spot an idea and its on again fitting it up changing it re-working it.

dogcatcher
3rd October 2011, 10:05 AM
Thanks for those 2 links, it is something else to muddle the mind!

Marvin