Which is the best glue?

[outback]

Which of these glues is the best?

I have quite deliberately left out PVA and similar/family/style/types. No don't argue! I want feedback on these three OK.

Wer'e talking of what may be termed specialised glues, though perhaps you use them everyday.

Horse for courses you say?, Well name your horse and pick its course.

[Termite]

Which of what glues is the best. :confused:

[outback]

You're too quick for me.
Plus my connection is playing up something horrific today.

Have a go now, don't forget to add reasons.

[Termite]

You're too quick for me.
Plus my connection is playing up something horrific today.

Have a go now, don't forget to add reasons.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[journeyman Mick]

I voted for epoxy, as had 100% of all respondents when I voted (mind you I was the only respondent at that stage ;) ) It's water proof, strong, gapfilling and works well on a large range of timbers as well as metals and a lot of plastics. Easy to mix (I use scales to get the ratios right), can use for filling, fairing, laminating and glassing depending on additives. I've never had any glueline failures or creeping. Can be mixed with a normal or slow hardener for varied potlife. Excellent shelf life. Easy to clean when wet with epoxy thinners. Hmmmm, maybe I should get a job as a salesman for it! :rolleyes:

Sticky Mickey

[Groggy]

Which of these glues is the best?

I have quite deliberately left out PVA and similar/family/style/types. No don't argue! I want feedback on these three OK.

Wer'e talking of what may be termed specialised glues, though perhaps you use them everyday.

Horse for courses you say?, Well name your horse and pick its course.
This BB isn't big enough to cover it because it depends on the surfaces to be joined. Even if you say just wood-to-wood, there are still many variables. Will it get wet? Is it balsa-to-lignum vitae? Is the wood oily? Is it a knot? etc

There are databases scattered across the internet that allow you to mention the item you need to glue to another item, then it returns a recommendation.

http://www.thistothat.com/ is one example.

I usually look up or ask about different jobs if not sure.

[graemet]

This BB isn't big enough to cover it because it depends on the surfaces to be joined. Even if you say just wood-to-wood, there are still many variables. Will it get wet? Is it balsa-to-lignum vitae? Is the wood oily? Is it a knot? etc
I usually look up or ask about different jobs if not sure. Of those listed, epoxy must have the greatest range of applications and give the strongest bond. However, hide glue is great for furniture restoration and while it can be a curse to use, urea is cheaper than epoxy if you can get a close fitting joint. You didn't even give resourcinol a guernsey!
Graeme

[Shane Watson]

hmmm....can't vote on this one cause I use all three independantly for different reasons / applications etc. Plus PVA to that group.
Horse may have their courses but different horses suit different courses, just ask a bookie.

[outback]

The reason for only three choices is so people like Shane can give an input on them all. I guess we all use PVA of one sort or another. I was just looking for feedback regarding the others.

[AlexS]

Epoxy for laminating, gap filling, easy to mix & use. It can be pigmented to match or contrast, & can be polished. Has high strength.

Hide glue for any joint that may need to be pulled apart or re-glued in future.

Unable to comment on U/F

[ubeaut]

Hide Glue........ No. Not because we sell it!

Hide glue has stood the test of time just look at all the antiques, it is the only glue that can adhere to itself and a the only one that I know can be undone. In the hands of someone who knows what they are doing it can be used for a rubbed joint that does not require clamping and will be as strong as (if not stronger than) most modern day adhesives. It is a brilliant gap filling glue when mixed with talc, scan be easily coloured and can be used for a range of amazing decorative finisher (but that's another story).

Although a pain in the but to use, it is still the best glues to use if you intend to make fine furniture that is designed to last for generations.

Epoxy has a range of plusses going for it like water proofing etc and is great for bonding non wood items to wood. It has one major flaw and that is the human factor, mix it wrong and it can be a real pain in the neck. In my personal opinion I don't reckon is has lasting power of hide. I have seen epoxy joints break under normal every day use where hide joints haven't. I feel this is due to the fact that hide keys itself to the timber much better than epoxy.

I am talking about fine woodworking joints with really good timber to timber contact. Not something that has come straight off the buzzer and had a bit of glue shoved on.

Just my thoughts on the above. As others have said each has their own application. Personally I prefer Polyurethane Glue (although still hard to get here) to Epoxy.

Cheers - Neil :)

PS have to admit it has been a few years since I last used epoxy and there may have been some changes since that time but not to my knowledge

[craigb]

I see that Titebond sell a liquid "hide" glue in a squezze bottle.

What's that all about?

[AlexS]

Hide Glue........ No. Not because we sell it!


Just my thoughts on the above. As others have said each has their own application. Personally I prefer Polyurethane Glue (although still hard to get here) to Epoxy.



Been thinking about giving the polyurethane a try...could you please give a bit more detail on the pros & cons Neil.

[lyctus]

I voted epoxy, for the reasons enunciated by AlexS but I use all types listed, including liquid hide glue by titebond. All have their place and users should make an informed choice for the task required.

[Wood Butcher]

Personally would have to say weetbix.
Have you ever tried to wash up breakfast bowls that have had leftover weetbix dry up in them. Damn near impossible. That stuff sticks to anything.

[STEPHEN MILLER]

Epoxy glues like West System have pumps on containers so mixing it wrong is lest likely as the pumps put out required ratios per pump, these types have advantages as you can add fillers witch can sawdust or wood shavings or west system fillers . Another polyurethane glue is Purbond made by boatcraft pacific it is single pack but requires a surfaces to be glued to be to be damp it expands into joint and out of it so it can fill gaps is easily sanded, can be trimed with a knife, waterproof and will glue to concrete as I found if it expands out the joint to much. :)

[Bruce Micheal]

Outback
Interesting post.

My views, given where I live and work are as follows:-
I voted for the epoxy, mainly because it has not failed me, yet!
The reason I say this is that in areas of very low humidity, timber will take up moisture very quickly (where I am, I can get timber down to 7% moisture content). We seldom get above 60% humidity on a regular basis. When we do get rain/storms (we are getting them now, yahoo!!!! :D :D :D ) timber soaks up moisture at a very fast rate and hence joints and the glue holding them must be able to take the stress. UF has let me down in the past due to the very brittle nature of the glue once cured (no mechanical stresses on the joints) also the item in question was in minor contact with the elements. :( I have never used hide glue, so I can't make any comment on it, although from my experience, it's so easy to pull apart old furniture glued with it. :)
Epoxy, although gap filling etc, seems to still retain a fair bit of flexability given the constrainst mentioned above. :)
I regularly use Selleys "Trademans PVA" and have tried "yellow glue" (not much difference?) Cost wise, I'll stay with the Selleys trade stuff. I have tried selleys duraband (polyurethene) based glue, and so far, has stood the test of time. :D

regards

[gatiep]

Quote:"I see that Titebond sell a liquid "hide" glue in a squezze bottle.

What's that all about?"


It's all about glueing!
:)



Personally I cannot single one of those out as the "best" as each of them have very definate uses and I use all of them, depending on the circumstances of eventual use of project, material, joint, environment, etc, etc. On top of that I use a lot of both the thin and medium superglue as well as white PVA and yellow glue ( Titebond original etc ). Each glue job is different and I select the glue most likely to do a good job.

[Iain]

And I just love the delicate boquette of hide glue, Mmmmmmmmmmm (vomit vomit).
I use them all but at the moment hide is the current flavour of the month for an old table I am restoring.

[Rocker]

I believe that UF is as good as or superior to epoxy for bent laminations that are under a lot of stress, such as my rocker's rockers. The instructions for Techniglue (an epoxy) specifically warn against using excessive clamping pressures, so presumably it would be unsuitable for bent laminations, where in some cases high clamping pressures are inevitable. I don't know whether other epoxies may be suitable, however.

I have used liquid hide glue, but find it has a problem if exposed to the high temperatures and humidity that are prevalent at times in many parts of Australia; I made a dovetailed cabinet using hide glue, and found that droplets of the glue oozed out of the joints and then re-solidified as nobbly beads on the surface of the cabinet. This probably would not be a problem if you have air-conditioning; but, before I had it installed, the temperatures in the house used to reach 40 degrees occasionally.

I did not vote in the poll, because I feel that each of the glues may be best in particular circumstances.

Rocker

[knucklehead]

I wish I had a long technical explaination of my glue choices but....

I use epoxy because even I can't stuff it up.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

[AlexS]

I believe that UF is as good as or superior to epoxy for bent laminations that are under a lot of stress, such as my rocker's rockers. The instructions for Techniglue (an epoxy) specifically warn against using excessive clamping pressures, so presumably it would be unsuitable for bent laminations, where in some cases high clamping pressures are inevitable. I don't know whether other epoxies may be suitable, however.

I have used liquid hide glue, but find it has a problem if exposed to the high temperatures and humidity that are prevalent at times in many parts of Australia; I made a dovetailed cabinet using hide glue, and found that droplets of the glue oozed out of the joints and then re-solidified as nobbly beads on the surface of the cabinet. This probably would not be a problem if you have air-conditioning; but, before I had it installed, the temperatures in the house used to reach 40 degrees occasionally.

I did not vote in the poll, because I feel that each of the glues may be best in particular circumstances.

Rocker

I'd agree with Rocker re using epoxy for bent laminations. I think where there may be flex, such as in a chair rocker, it may be brittle and lead to separation. I used AV203 UF for the chair from hell, with no problems.