CB144LV kayak build in Sydney, Australia

[AlexN]

Three years ago (to the day ;), b.o.a.t. began his thread on an update to his Clayton Bay 144LV kayak design (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f32/clayton-bay-144lv-12ft-plywood-kayak-87199/); when I eventually - by chance, about 1.75 years ago - caught up with the thread it was all over including the shouting. I found it so elegant and interesting that I decided that I would like to have a go at building one myself. (I should say that while I have had some experience with paddling kayaks (on sheltered portions of the sea, the River Murray, etc.) I am not an expert, and when it comes to building said things, a complete novice.) I contacted b.o.a.t. with my wishes and he seemed quite happy - for some peculiar reason that I still haven't fathomed ;) - that I do so. He also very kindly went to a lot of trouble to re-jig the plans for Fumble-Fingered-Fool consumption, and I got busy paving my boat-building road with yet more good intentions (starting the kayak build in late 2010 for one ;) when I got tripped up by trouble with surface coatings and my own insane approach to "perfection" on my 'Duck/Ozracer build. I can't do much about the former, but I have, in the final throes of building the 'Duck, rather modified my approach not only to final finishing but also my rather odd approach to tolerances in a woodworking context (fine if you're metalworking, but a decided trap if woodworking).

With the 'Duck finally out of the way (literally) and sailing, and work progressing at a moderate rate on the organisation of my workswamp, I am now considering future projects more seriously: these include the CB144, the Storer Goat and Storer Eureka. The CB144 is likely to be first out of the blocks, probably beating the Goat by a full length at least while I agonise over what plywood to build the latter from. I have some very nice 4 mm Joubert gaboon plywood from Andrew Denman for the CB 144 and the Eureka, but not, sadly, 6 mm gaboon for the Goat. I rather precipitately leapt at a bargain of 6 mm Pacific maple marine ply at $50/sheet plus freight: this latter stuff is excellent material, but heavy: I did a comparison of the approximate densities (kg/cu. metre) of the PM and gaboon sheets, and the latter worked out around 30 % lighter than the former (a figure that Mr Storer independently confirms elsewhere).

I've started "work" on the kayak by re-reading the plans, email correspondence with b.o.a.t., and his build thread (see link above). The kayak will be something quite a bit different for me, and likely to be quite a big challenge.

To summarise the construction procedure, all parts of the boat including the temporary spine over which it is constructed are marked out on three sheets of plywood (chines, bulkheads and cockpit coaming) and one sheet of, e.g., chipboard/particleboard, MDF or similar cheap, expendable but stiff board (spine, stations/moulds). The square spine running almost the length of the boat is made up out of bits of the chipboard sheet, and once the stations have been drawn onto the board and cut out they are threaded onto the spine at predetermined distances. The chine parts (two per chine) are similarly lofted but then joined at the sheet edges with taped butt-joins before cutting out. These are then placed over the mould and stitch-and-glued together starting with the hull, and working from the bottom chines (top of mould) thereof to the "gunwale". The same process is repeated for the deck after flipping the spine 180 degrees. After filling, taping, coating and sanding the two halves are epoxy-taped together, the essential and optional bulkheads installed, and various other bits and pieces added to finish the craft off, and finished off with final painting, etc.

Sounds easy, doesn't it? Ha ha ;).

In this build I am going to try and stick to the following after various experiences with building the 'Duck, reading AJ's thread, etc.:

1. Get the workshop finished! That actually has to happen before any other work can start;

2. Plan ahead;

3. Use the minimum amount of glue possible - happily, there is very little opportunity for filletting(!);

4. Don't get stuck on a "perfect" finish;

5. Keep the build moving;

6. Use WEST resin/hardener;

7. Don't do a bright finish (eek!);

I will also probably attempt Mr Storer's double-ended paddle (right-hand) using some of the remnants of the third sheet, too. Got to have something to power the boat with, after all ;). Which means that I'll have one of the two paddles for the Eureka already made, then :).

One of the beauties of using the spine per AJ's plans is that it can be affixed onto my Triton Multi-Stands and moved about as necessary (e.g., to make way for the Goat ;), and even clamped to a bench.

So, when is this project likely to get going in terms of marking out and cutting. etc.? I started a bit of phoning around for chipboard yesterday, and go an approximate price, but I will keep going on that one as supply of 12 mm sheets of chipboard at the place that I rang was limited(!?!). Which still doesn't answer the question! I get a little further with the tidying every day, but that has been crimped slightly by dint of having to prepare a spot outside for the HWH. Once the latter has been moved, however, I get an extra bit of uncluttered gangway and will be able to get some dry wall and shelving up along it quick-smart:).

The cutting-out and so-forth will hopefully start in the next couple of weeks, but that may change; you never know, it might even be earlier but I think that unlikely.

[labr@]

I can't do much about the former, but I have, in the final throes of building the 'Duck, rather modified my approach not only to final finishing but also my rather odd approach to tolerances in a woodworking context (fine if you're metalworking, but a decided trap if woodworking)..

Sounds like you've developed a healthy attitude to perfectionism Alex. I recently came across this comment in the same vein from one of Nick Schade's books and immediately latched onto it as a signature on another forum:

"A wooden boat will suck up all the perfectionism you can feed it, and you need to pick your battles."

As for the CB144LV, I had the privilege of paddling what we may now refer to as the prototype and found it remarkably stable.

And remarkably blue!:U

Looking forward to seeing your progress.

[b.o.a.t.]

I think at this point I am supposed to break out in a cold sweat....
did I catch all the errors in the panels & x,y co-ordinates???

Compounding this is that Alex is about to use a method I borrowed from
elsewhere to solve a couple of issues, but have not actually tried myself.
The theory is good, I've built it several times in my head, other people have used it.
But Alex is the Chief Guinea-Pig, and will tell us if it works or if I've generated
a pile of steaming bovine manure...

Yes, building it will be very different to a Storer Boat, where each plan-set is a
mini boat-building course in its own right. At its heart, this is a bunch of x,y
co-ordinates and sanity-check layout diagrammes generated by an older version
of Gregg Carlson's Hull Designer
Carlson Design – Software – Add Ons – Shareware – Hull Designer (http://carlsondesign.com/software/add-ons/shareware/hull-designer).
In keeping with the spirit of Gregg's freeware, the .hul file is attached for use
of anyone who wants it. Just change the .txt extension to .hul so that Hulls can open it.

What I've supplied to Alex in his capacity as Chief Guinea Pig is rather more
than that, but still far short of what MIK supplies to his builders.
But will it be enough ? :C
Will it be right ?? :o

Somehow I'm supposed to sleep tonight... :C
AJ

[AlexN]

Sounds like you've developed a healthy attitude to perfectionism Alex. I recently came across this comment in the same vein from one of Nick Schade's books and immediately latched onto it as a signature on another forum:

"A wooden boat will suck up all the perfectionism you can feed it, and you need to pick your battles."

As for the CB144LV, I had the privilege of paddling what we may now refer to as the prototype and found it remarkably stable.

And remarkably blue!:U

Looking forward to seeing your progress.

Hi Bob,

I was betting on whether it would be you or AJ who replied first - lucking I didn't put any money on either of you ;). Nice signature: we'll see how much my new attitude lasts once I start! Lucky you paddling the boat, it makes me keener than ever. I saw the boat at close hand hanging up in Daddles' shed when I was last in Adelaide - at least I'm pretty sure it was it, on loan I think - and that was probably what really decided me to try and build one.

[AlexN]

I think at this point I am supposed to break out in a cold sweat....
did I catch all the errors in the panels & x,y co-ordinates???

Compounding this is that Alex is about to use a method I borrowed from
elsewhere to solve a couple of issues, but have not actually tried myself.
The theory is good, I've built it several times in my head, other people have used it.
But Alex is the Chief Guinea-Pig, and will tell us if it works or if I've generated
a pile of steaming bovine manure...

Yes, building it will be very different to a Storer Boat, where each plan-set is a
mini boat-building course in its own right. At its heart, this is a bunch of x,y
co-ordinates and sanity-check layout diagrammes generated by an older version
of Gregg Carlson's Hull Designer
Carlson Design – Software – Add Ons – Shareware – Hull Designer (http://carlsondesign.com/software/add-ons/shareware/hull-designer).
In keeping with the spirit of Gregg's freeware, the .hul file is attached for use
of anyone who wants it. Just change the .txt extension to .hul so that Hulls can open it.

What I've supplied to Alex in his capacity as Chief Guinea Pig is rather more
than that, but still far short of what MIK supplies to his builders.
But will it be enough ? :C
Will it be right ?? :o

Somehow I'm supposed to sleep tonight... :C
AJ

Weeeeeeeeeek, weeeeeeeeeeek, weeeek, weeeek ;)

Hi AJ,

I didn't realise that I was going to cause so much stress! My apologies - any mistakes, however, are going to be mine. And I can blame the Dreadful Dog ;). I think that the centrelines on spine and formers will be the key to success, and in some respects the method isn't too dissimilar to some model aircraft building techniques that I've used - albeit on a slightly(!) smaller scale.

Cheers,
Chief Guinea-Pig, squeak squeak.

[b.o.a.t.]

Hi Bob,
I saw the boat at close hand hanging up in Daddles' shed when I was last in Adelaide - at least I'm pretty sure it was it, on loan I think - and that was probably what really decided me to try and build one.

Oh dear... I think it was that loan period which convinced Daddles to give up
boat building & return to cycling. :oo:

[AlexN]

From what I heard, he got bitten by a redback :rolleyes:.

[m2c1Iw]

Oh dear... I think it was that loan period which convinced Daddles to give up
boat building & return to cycling. :oo:

So that's what has happened to him.

[b.o.a.t.]

Combination of many things, but when I last spoke with him, he'd pretty much
chucked in the boat building & thrown a leg back over the pushie. Tried to get
together for a snort a couple of times but it never quite worked out between
clashing shifts & other commitments. :(

[AlexN]

Well - it's over four years since the last post in this seemingly-abaondoned thread - and almost two since the move to Blaxland from Wahroonga (over two since the workswamp contents were packed up into a hermetically sealed shipping container...). Funny, I thought that I'd posted some snaps to this thread - must have just uploaded them to Flickr, whereupon they got buried. I shall have to break out the ball o' string and go looking in the labyrinth for them (shudder).

The new workshop is getting organised, albeit slowly: I am NOT going to do anything until 1. I am completely organised, and 2. have cleaned off all the dust and RUST from my poor tools. I am currently working on a new coating for my "aeromodelling" bench, to be closely followed by my reed-making and lathe/mill benches. After THAT, I may get down to doing something. One of those somethings will hopefully be this kayak of AJ's, but it will but constructed in my Father-in-Law's garage, not here, as I DO NOT want a layer of sanding dust (wood, resin or paint) all over my metal-working machinery and metal stocks again. Ever. Any aeromodelling will be restricted to glueing things - any sanding, etc. to be done outside and/or at the F-i-L's.

I got out the folder that the various bits of info that I have for the CB144LV (note that I have been meaning to do this for some time now) today while I was waiting for the power to come back on (we are currently having our kitchen replaced) and the dust from sanding the benchtop to settle. I think I've got the sequence back in the forefront of my so-clled mind, but it took a bit of effort.

More at some point in the future (as I said recently on my similarly-mothballed General Aircraft Skyfarer thread on RCSCALEBUILDER.com). I did get the "new" (also two years old) Really Simple Sails sail bent onto the 'Duck's spars the other day, so that is another step in some direction or other.

[AlexN]

I was absolutely convinced that I had put this post on this thread ages ago. What I had in fact done was caption the snaps and put then up on Flickr, but not made the final step of putting them in the thread. Oh well, here they are. It makes no difference in any case, since precisely nothing has happened yet apart form my the chipboard sheet around the countryside. It is at least where it will (probably) be constructed, now.

1. 2400 x 1200 x 12 mm sheet of chipboard for the kayak's moulds and spine - and a lovely view of one of the other parts ("storage") of the former Workswamp. The white and green wheel-like object is a "Wodent Wheel" - from when we had pet ratties :). Note also the in-storage foilds for the 'Duck - it was still under repair after falling off its trailer in the front yard at this point, at the priming stage after quite a bit of patching...

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8385/8455584872_826e05ecf2_b.jpg



2. An out-of-focus corner of the chipboard sheet. All corners have some degree of damage, so I am going to have to make an accurate reference mark on the best of the corners...

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8368/8454492595_5a33255ff8_b.jpg



4. Another corner...

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8232/8454491331_e28c79904e_b.jpg



3. This is the best candidate for the reference corner (0,0) - or (20,20), or the most useful and easiest coordinate, on the other side of the sheet

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8103/8455588860_e0483e8a8d_b.jpg

Follow this link (http://www.flickr.com/alex1n) to my Flickr account, or to here, the Flickr set for my attempt at b.o.a.t.'s CB144LV kayak (https://www.flickr.com/photos/alex1n/albums/72157632712714589)...

More anon - I need to get my wood stack sorted out, and after a nasty accident with the table saw whilst sawing up the sticks for the stack. I still have my finger, by a stroke of sheer luck - the blade missed the bone...which is why you should ALWAYS use a push-stick. Especially when the blade guard isn't in place - the latter is a cardinal sin where table saws are concerned, but I thought that it was the only way to saw up the sticks at the time - not having taken the time to take a push-stick up from home.

I trust that people learn from my spectacularly STUPID error.

[labr@]

I got all excited there for a minute thinking the pics were going to be of plywood parts cut out.
Oh well, I guess you can't rush these things.

Anyway I hope the finger heals fully and soon.

.....and next time look after yourself by bloody well doing it properly :nonono:

[jmk89]

I'm glad to see a new project germinating, Alex.

As for a reference corner, I never trust sheet goods to be supplied with one (let alone 4) 90* corners. So I always lay out a right angle on the sheet using a known accurate square, and then check the accuracy of that angle by making the biggest triangle I can and applying Pythagoras ( I do cheat and find the longest multiple of 3 that fits on the shorter side and then add 1/3 to the other arm of what should be the right angle (i.e. 4 x the same multiple) and then, as we all remember, the hypotenuse should be five times that multiple).

Why do I go to that length? Ever tried to 'square' a piece of furniture with a piece of store-bought Masonite/ply/mdf - there are never any right angles.

[AlexN]

I got all excited there for a minute thinking the pics were going to be of plywood parts cut out.
Oh well, I guess you can't rush these things.

Anyway I hope the finger heals fully and soon.

.....and next time look after yourself by bloody well doing it properly :nonono:

Hello Bob,

Thank you for your kind words regarding the finger: with the bandages finally off it is looking a lot better, but needs fairly gentle treatment still (doctor has forbidden any RFS activities for at least another week). I feel duly admonished! And it's a lesson that I'm not likely to forget, not to mention that it's appilcable elsewhere...

Sorry about the false pretences - I am tidying a few things up as I get closer to getting the shed(s) operational, this being one of them. Hopefully it win't be too long before I started marking out the moulds and strongback on that sheet. Cutting them out would be good, too.

Cheers,
Alex.

[AlexN]

I'm glad to see a new project germinating, Alex.

As for a reference corner, I never trust sheet goods to be supplied with one (let alone 4) 90* corners. So I always lay out a right angle on the sheet using a known accurate square, and then check the accuracy of that angle by making the biggest triangle I can and applying Pythagoras ( I do cheat and find the longest multiple of 3 that fits on the shorter side and then add 1/3 to the other arm of what should be the right angle (i.e. 4 x the same multiple) and then, as we all remember, the hypotenuse should be five times that multiple).

Why do I go to that length? Ever tried to 'square' a piece of furniture with a piece of store-bought Masonite/ply/mdf - there are never any right angles.

Hello Jeremy,

Thank you for the tip :). I will apply that piece of mathematics to the sheet.

Since the sheet is 2400 x 1200, not 2440 x 1220 per the plans, I am going to have to be quite careful to use as much of the available real estate as possible. And I need to re-read the plans yet again.

Step by step - I'm still working on finishing off my benchtops, but once they are done I will be able to really start getting organised at last!

Cheers,
Alex.

[AlexN]

Then, of course there's the marking (and cutting) out of the bulkheads and panels on the plywood (three sheets of 3 mm gaboon), after which things should go quite quickly.

[AlexN]

More of the Cautionary Tale of the Finger:

1. Set of Carbatec push-sticks and one "push pad". The surface on which they are sitting has had one-only coat of Norglass Polyclear Gloss enamel (over three of Bote-Cote)yet, coming up well so far :)

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1685/25675735172_095fd9ce8e_b.jpg



2. Carbatec push-sticks again: the "push-pad" sitting on its working surface (the rubber pad)

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1681/25675746402_4bda5c0334_b.jpg



3. Ripped-out glove finger: NEVER get anything like this ANYWHERE NEAR a spinning saw blade: the blade grabbed it in a momentary lapse of concentration caused by fatigue, and pulled my finger into the blade. Extremely STUPID. It was extremely lucking that the injury wasn't worse: just enough to teach me a very deep lesson

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1641/25796756965_9a20bd49c2_b.jpg

Follow this link (http://www.flickr.com/alex1n) to my Flickr account, also in my New Shed album/set (https://www.flickr.com/photos/alex1n/albums/72157648628854618)


I considered putting up a couple of snaps of the savaged finger as a warning to others, but decided fairly quickly that I wouldn't, since there would probably be complaints resulting in my being Cautioned or BANNED. So I haven't, and won't. One has to look very closely at said finger now to see that anything has happened: it has healed exceptionally well and quickly, given the bite. Two of those push-sticks are going up the the father-in-law's, and I will acquire another set for here.

A serious of unfortunate events recently has curtailed much of just about anything except essential things for the time being, and it is going to be a while before anything else gets done on this, the shed, or much else (including RFS call-outs).

[jmk89]

Wow you were lucky - the other lesson is that when using machinery like a table saw never wear gloves (except of course weldin' gloves when weldin'). They get caught in the works and pull you in faster than you can crap yourself!! The same applies to long sleeves and long hair. I see all sorts of safety advice but that simple rule seems to get too little attention, especially as people tend to think that leather gauntlets will make them safer when using sharp spinning machinery.

[AlexN]

Indeed - see the caption in my above post. Wedding rings are frowned upon where electricity is concerned, too... I almost always work with my sleeves rolled up, but thanks for the tip. My hair is not what could be called overly long ;).

Cheers,
the alex.

[labr@]

it has healed exceptionally well and quickly,

Glad to hear that Alex :2tsup: - now hopefully you'll get a lucky break or 2 and be able to make some progress.

(I'm not sure how much longer I can hold my breath :U.)

I know what it's like though - my current bench build is to replace a bench that needs to be moved to replace a table that will be turfed after I move the things on it that need to be better organised. And all of that is necessary as part of a tidy up to allow me to build a kayak that I've been planning for over a year....

If we persevere we'll get there.

[AlexN]

Hello Bob,

If you happen to stumble across an excess of lucky break, please send me one! And don't turn blue on us, it's not worth it!

Step by step - I'm getting a small amont of benchtop sanding done by fits and starts. One bit sanded is one bit that doesn't have to be done in future...

Cheers,
Alex.