Bait For Lee Valley

[Termite]

The purpose of this poll is to try and lure Lee Valley to Australia, or at least maybe starting a loyalty rewards scheme. (fingers crossed) :D

[outback]

More than five, and that's without counting.

[DanP]

Had to say none. But in a few months I'll have eight bright and shiny Bessey K body clamps :D

I will certainly be going back for more stuff and probably the only thing that has stopped me so far has been the shipping rates.

Dan

[Termite]

Good, these are the sort of replies I hoped to see. Keep them coming.
HEY ROB, I'VE GOT MORE THAN 5 AND SOME ON THE WAY NOW.Nudge nudge wink wink. :D

[craigb]

I currently have 5.

In a few months I'll have many more than 5. :)

FWIW, I don't think that we can expect the local suppliers to match the Lee Valley prices (converted to $A +15%), however I reckon that they must have a LOT of fat in their prices. After all, they are buying them wholesale and probably getting a bulk discount as well. :(

[silentC]

I did read here somewhere a mention of a possible distributorship in Australia. The reason for the high prices of Veritas stuff is that no retailers in Australia have distribution rights, so they have to pay retail plus freight and customs and then make a margin. If someone took on a distributorship, the prices should come down.

In the meantime, I think the idea with the bulk order currently being organised is a good one and maybe it could be a once a quarter thing? If everyone gets their purchases together and has it all shipped on one pallet, it's got to be cheaper than doing it on your own. If it works, maybe there could be another one in 3 or 4 months.

[Bob Willson]

Not only do I have more than 5 but I also built a special cabinet for housing my Lee Valley loot.

Of course, if Lee Valley were here in Australia then I'd have to build bigger cabinet. :D :D :D

[craigb]

Are Mik et al really paying retail?

I guess only Rob knows for sure.

[echnidna]

Not only do I have more than 5 but I also built a special cabinet for housing my Lee Valley loot.

Of course, if Lee Valley were here in Australia then I'd have to build bigger cabinet. :D :D :D

bigger cabinets - A New Product Line ???? :D :D :D :D :D

[silentC]

That's what was said. Can't remember what the thread was about but I'm sure the man himself was involved in it. Someone was having a whinge about the price difference from Australian suppliers.

[silentC]

Until very recently - we did not have export pricing on the Veritas plane line (we didn't have the production capacity to supply the export market) - so any planes offered by Australian companies had been purchased at retail from Lee Valley. That should be changing soon....we're about to make the entire plane and spokeshave line available - you should see much more reasonable pricing soon.
Half remembered... :rolleyes:

[craigb]

Interesting. I wonder if the prices have got more "reasonable".

[silentC]

Or perhaps our local suppliers' margins have become more 'reasonable' (for them).

[Termite]

Interesting. I wonder if the prices have got more "reasonable".
HA! I don't think so. Carbatec cattledog for a LV LA smoother is A$299 + freight.
MIK latest price is A$270 + A$12 freight, and wont be in stock for over 3 weeks yet. High angle blade "Huh wots that?"

On the way now direct from Lee Valley :-
1 Low angle smoother. US$159.00 A$209.20
1 High angle blade US$21.50 A$28.30
Freight 5-10 days US$39.90 A$52.50
total in Australian dollars A$290.00

Which means I'm getting the high angle blade for A$8.00 when compared to the price MIK want for the plane and freight.

QED.... means roughly..point proved

[Dan]

A couple of sets of panel clamps (or whatever) counts as one product, right?

[craigb]

HA! I don't think so. Carbatec cattledog for a LV LA smoother is A$299 + freight.
MIK latest price is A$270 + A$12 freight, and wont be in stock for over 3 weeks yet. High angle blade "Huh wots that?"

On the way now direct from Lee Valley :-
1 Low angle smoother. US$159.00 A$209.20
1 High angle blade US$21.50 A$28.30
Freight 5-10 days US$39.90 A$52.50
total in Australian dollars A$290.00

Which means I'm getting the high angle blade for A$8.00 when compared to the price MIK want for the plane and freight.

QED.... means roughly..point proved

Yeah but Bill (and I'm only playing devil's advocate here) you haven't factored in GST and duty.

Sure, you will probably get away without paying either (and good luck to you) but you should acknowledege in your calcs that it IS payable.

[bitingmidge]

I am about to embark on a regular :D (sort of) order till I have my fill of stuff, @ $100 per month I've got two year's worth of backorders on my wishlist at the moment!

I am happy just bringing it in slowly in small (GST free sometimes) lots and copping the freight, which is roughly the same as GST anyway!

On heavy items like the clamps, there is a big saving on freight with a bulk order which makes this method unusually attractive, but if we were to do it on a regular basis, SOMEONE would have to be paid to do it.

Don't want to bag any Aussie retailers, but (for a few minutes) I considered ordering the Tucker Vice from Veritas @ $712AUD plus freight and GST. Locally it is available for $1312.00 plus GST!!

Even with small margins, I don't think that represents a fair go, and thats' why I have decided to buy stuff direct. I will probably have spent my next $2k by the time a local distributor is appointed, and will still buy little bits and pieces direct while the service remains exemplory.

Cheers,

P :)

[ndru]

In the meantime, I think the idea with the bulk order currently being organised is a good one and maybe it could be a once a quarter thing? If everyone gets their purchases together and has it all shipped on one pallet, it's got to be cheaper than doing it on your own. If it works, maybe there could be another one in 3 or 4 months.

It’s a good idea. I agree that Aussie retailer mark-ups on imported stuff can be a bit hard to swallow.

As midge said, the savings on bulk order freight can be offset by import taxes/charges avoided on smaller orders. For this reason I'd personally stick to a drip-feed of smaller items in small batches shipped via surface mail, but I'd be interested in doing this again for occasional splurges on multiple large items (eg twin-screw vice, more clamps, power tool guide (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3&p=41707&cat=1,240,45313&ap=1), etc). I'm torturing myself on whether to add the twin-screw vice to my order. Apologies in advance to Daryl if I do!

The $USD/$AUD is also a consideration. I wouldn’t even have begun to think about doing this when it was as bad as 1.70AUD two years ago! The current rate should be stable for the next 12 months given the US' economy's twin trade and budget deficit blowouts and far too many Australians having a job. ;)

I think the most important thing stopping us from doing this more regularly is our significant others! (I'm just updating my tax records, honey, I'll be finished with the computer soon...)

In short, I'm unlikely to participate in this kind of venture again until closer to the end of this year or early next year, especially if I want to stay married :rolleyes:

[beejay1]

I did read here somewhere a mention of a possible distributorship in Australia. The reason for the high prices of Veritas stuff is that no retailers in Australia have distribution rights, so they have to pay retail plus freight and customs and then make a margin. If someone took on a distributorship, the prices should come down.Doesnt necessarily follow. The us market in consumer durables and FMCG is huge compared to all other markets, albeit the Japanese home market and China are catching up. Its normal for those markets to be cheaper than most as volume, critical mass,logistics etc all play a part in determining the end price. Retailers in Us will also lower prices but improve margins in other ways such as reducing warranty periods,charging for home delivery, added value promos etc which give them the margin mix necessary to achieve bottom line target.
Also, to most manufacturers, dealing with US is probably the most desirable market to be invoved in again due to high volumes and in some cases political benefits and they will always give US their best possible attention. Occasionally the same or similar prices are passed on to other customers by these manufacturers but the importers are then hit by freight charges,insurance, warranty cost, after sales service costs, marketing costs,cost of returns. duty, and of course the cost of running their own business. This usually means that retail prices can be several times higher than factory gate price.
Sorry to go on but the point Im trying to make is that even if a distributor brought then in to Aus its unlikely that he would be able to offer similar prices as the US because his cost price probably wouldnt allow.More often than not with items like this its better to buy them direct from a discounter in US and take your chance with warranty.
beejay1

http://community.webshots.com/user/eunos9

[craigb]

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the only reason this bulk order is happening this time around is mainly due to the good offices of DarrylF.

Will it ever happen again?

Who knows.

Ask Darryl (or maybe Rob :) )

For myself, I'm not counting on it.

[RETIRED]

Or perhaps our local suppliers' margins have become more 'reasonable' (for them).
From a man that won't get out of bed for $60 an hour? :rolleyes: :D

[silentC]

Doesnt necessarily follow.
Hey, I was only mis-quoting Rob Lee. I know as much about this stuff as anyone - next to nothing. At the end of the day, the local supplier will buy the stuff for a price, add freight, customs, expenses and make a profit. If that all means that with 'export pricing' from Lee Valley it ends up being the same as it is now then nothing will change.

Now unless someone has got $61 for me, I'm going back to bed. :p

[bitingmidge]

Now unless someone has got $61 for me, I'm going back to bed. :p

I think that's the point!!

No one is prepared to work for a supplier in this country and give great customer service for wages commensurate with the prices we want to pay.

Until we all realise that, and replace minimum wages with "you ought to be greatful we kept you out of the rain today", our retailers are going to have to keep charging what to us is outrageous margins, just so they can drive cars like we do, and go to restaurants like we do and generally have a lovely life.

Retailers should be caste as "never to rise above poverty", then we'd all be happy with their prices, at least at bankruptcy sales.

P
:D

[silentC]

No-one was forthcoming with the $61 but I couldn't sleep worrying about this issue, so I'm up again.

Perhaps an illustration based on a recent experience of mine. We have two builders, let's call them builder A and builder B. We actually have lots of builder B's but let's keep it simple. Builder A is a very well respected builder. He quotes $10,000 a square. Builder B is also a respected builder but he quotes $14,000 a square. They both do the same job in the same amount of time, so why is one so much dearer?

Builder A is the kind of person who doen't need lots of money and flashy cars. He is happy if his wife and kids have everything they need and a good amount of the stuff they want. He takes pride in his work and thinks he offers a fair price.

Builder B will charge as much as the market can stand and at the moment, that is a lot.

Builder A thinks B is ripping people off but Builder B just thinks he is being enterprising and making the most of a peak in an easy come easy go business. He probably thinks A is a fool.

[craigb]

Do they still quote in squares? :eek:

A square is 10' x 10' isn't it?

Sorry drifted off topic again :o

[silentC]

Yes. Something to do with the graduations on their tape measures I think ;)

[TassieKiwi]

Silly 'square' is 3 yards square, methinks.

[TassieKiwi]

I'm torturing myself on whether to add the twin-screw vice to my order. Apologies in advance to Daryl if I do!

:rolleyes:
Do it - I did. Figured I'll be a long time dead, fcuk it! Also same thought with the large shoulder plane, holdfast, 36" straightege....oh dear.:eek:

[bitingmidge]

Ahh I love a Friday rant!!

Good old builder A. He's the salt of the earth and I only wish other people would take his approach. He not only gets out of bed, but buys all his tools, maintains a car and works two hours for $60.

See my post above... if the guys in the hardware shop would only say, "I'm happy walking to work and earning less" then our prices would go down!!

1) Quoting anything by the "square" or square metre in this day and age is fraught with danger. It can only be used as a guide and can easily be 50% out at the end of the day. Square metre pricing can only be calculated on the basis of the "last job we finished" and as such must be months, sometimes 6 months or a year out of date. When subcontractors or suppliers put up their prices on the current job, it can take two, or even three "generations" of houses for the builder to catch up and by then often the inevitable has happened, and he discovers he's been using the cash flow from the last house to pay for the one before.....crunch time.

On the other hand, the guys who have the seemingly inflated prices, often buy flash new utes, and think they are making a quid, the difference is that when the crunch happens for them, what they thought was profit is actually spent on the price increases they didn't know about as well, and they have a new ute and a bit of debt, but at least they aren't bust.

2) When builder A makes a quoting mistake, as he inevitably will, is it likely that his customer will say "No problems, A, you were the cheapest price and the fairest by far, we'll pay to fix it?" - probably not.

3) I've seen many instances of the same sorts of differences, rarely is the actual end cost reflective of the difference at the start. There just isn't 40% margin in a house, even in stupidly bouyant times.

What happens is that when the Builder A's of the world eventually discover that they can't pay their bills, their customers are faced with long delays, while new builders are appointed, and/or paying more to get the job finished.

I'm not saying don't go with builder A, you'll probably get a great job at a great price. Just hope you are the first one in the sequence though!!

Ever wondered why compulsory house builder's insurance is so expensive (apart from idiot insurance co management I mean)?

Sometimes the more expensive price can prove to be the bargain.

Cheers,

P (Who is a lot happier than he sounds!)

[silentC]

To get approx. sq. metres from squares, you multiply by 9.25. A square metre is roughly 10.76 square feet. 22 squares = 203.5 square metres = 2190.46 square feet. Divide by 100 gives you pretty damn close to 22....

[silentC]

Quoting anything by the "square" or square metre in this day and age is fraught with danger.
But surely this is the method used by the local council when determining fees and they would never use a method that was in any way inaccurate (at least under-estimated). They might miss out on revenue.

Now all you say might be true, however my point is that prices are frequently determined by how much the vendor thinks they can get away with, so returning to the original point, even if the local supplier could get Lee Valley cheaper, putting the prices down to compensate would probably not be a given. Retailer A might drop them but retailers B would not.

If you get a special deal on bread in the sanger shop one week, do you drop your prices? I think your average retailer would think 'that's a win to me'.

[Bob Willson]

1/10 for a clear and lucid explanation ..... NOT

[silentC]

Which of the clear and lucid posts above is that directed at, Mr Willson?

If it's "1/10 .... NOT", does that mean it's really 10/10 ? :D

[bitingmidge]

If you get a special deal on bread in the sanger shop one week, do you drop your prices? I think your average retailer would think 'that's a win to me'.

In my case, I think "well hopefully that will offset the increase in the cost of tomatos because of the ^&%$^%$ hail last week!!".

In fact what I did do, was analyse our sales in great detail, and adjusted our prices so that the most popular product gave the greatest margin, and the least popular was almost given away.

Interestingly, increasing the price only made the most popular ones more popular, which of course made me very happy and enabled me to order those Bessey Clamps!

Perhaps that's what we are missing here: If only a few people are prepared to pay the big bucks demanded by the local retailers for the good product, and they are making as much as they would by selling ten times as many, without the need to keep a hugely expensive inventory, good luck to them!

I know we're arguing in circles, but can I just say that, like builder A, I'm happy with my lot, and don't charge to get out of bed! :D

P(It does cost a lot to make me go away though!!)

:D :D :D

[bitingmidge]

Which of the clear and lucid posts above is that directed at, Mr Willson?

If it's "1/10 .... NOT", does that mean it's really 10/10 ? :D

Must have been one of yours!! :D :D :D

P

[Bob Willson]

Which of the clear and lucid posts above is that directed at, Mr Willson?

If it's "1/10 .... NOT", does that mean it's really 10/10 ? :D



It refers to this one:


To get approx. sq. metres from squares, you multiply by 9.25. A square metre is roughly 10.76 square feet. 22 squares = 203.5 square metres = 2190.46 square feet. Divide by 100 gives you pretty damn close to 22....

I pondered it for a few minutes but couldn't make a lot of sense out of it. Now this could mean one of various things, such as; I'm really stupid and have an abysmally low IQ of a single figure, or, The explanation was very difficult to follow, or, (and this is the most likely one here).the explanation was cr@p and was obtuse in the information it conveyed. :D :D

[bitingmidge]

Alas poor Bob! :D

It's the old 10-11-12 metric conversion rule of thumb.

One square metre = approximately 11 square feet

and I'm buggered if I know what = approximately 10 or 12 anythings, (it was a long time ago and I didn't think it mattered), but whatever they are it's a pretty simple conversion.

Cheers,

P (or was it the 9-10-11 metric conversion rule of thumb.)
:D :D :D

[bitingmidge]

Now that I think of it, 3 metres is 10 feet, but what is twelve (or was it nine?)

P :confused:

[Bob Willson]

Oh great, thanks Peter, that's cleared everything up .... NOT

[silentC]

I object in the strongest possible way to your inference that my explanation of how 1 square = 10 square feet was anything other than accurate, within the tolerance of rounding errors and the somewhat truncated version of my reasoning as presented.

In case you were not joking and you really did fail to grasp my explanation, I was attempting to prove that 1 square = 10 square feet by converting to square metres, which I know how to do, then to square feet and then back to squares.

If any of the arithmetic used still escapes you, I am happy to go into greater detail.

[ndru]

what I did do, was analyse our sales in great detail, and adjusted our prices so that the most popular product gave the greatest margin, and the least popular was almost given away.

Interestingly, increasing the price only made the most popular ones more popular

Its hard to begrudge someone's opportunism. After all, don't we all try to advance our lot in life?

What I can't understand is the argument I often see on this board that we should support so-and-so retailer/tradesperson because we need to compensate for their higher costs.

Since when did the seller's costs determine the price he/she asks?!?

For example, I pay more than a student or child to see a film or travel on a train, but the cost of the showing the film or driving the bus is the same regardless of who buys the ticket. Midge's example of "increasing the price only made the most popular ones more popular" is another case in point.

Like SilentC said, the sellers' decision on what price to ask for is not restrained by "how much did it cost me" - they ask for what they can get. Sometimes its a seller's market (which seems to be the case for tradespeople at the moment and good luck to them) and sometimes its a buyer's market depending on market demand and supply.

I also don't agree with the argument that "Builder B is charging the right price because his/her quality is better". I reckon that 80% of home-owners are pretty clueless about what makes for a good job (myself included), hence the opportunity for some builders to profit at their expense. This forum goes some way toward countering that.

I'll just step off my soapbox, now, because the air is so thin at this altitude. :D

[jackiew]

Sorry but I'm still none the wiser about this bizarre form of measuring area - square feet makes sense, square yards, square metres are all fine - squares - what drunk thought that one up. A few days ago I had a very frustrating conversation with the call centre operative at an insurance company.

CSO : how many squares is your house?

J : haven't a clue - how big is a square?

CSO : err err ... well how many square metres is your house?

I then guestimated in square yards converted that 1:1 into square metres just to be on the safe side and told her the result ... sounds of much clicking calculator buttons followed

CSO : that is XX squares. How many bedrooms does your house have ?

J : 3

CSO : a 3 bedroom house is normally YY squares - would you like me to put YY down.

She might has well have just said how many bedrooms have you got cos its fairly obvious that they don't actually want to know how many squares your house actually is - just how many squares it should be.

On subject of Australian rip off prices - I'll be bringing back a ladder stand-off in my luggage from uk next time I go because the lowest quote I've found here would pay for buying it in the uk + excess baggage + having it gold plated + custom built display case. Its a few bits of aluminium and a spring but apparently they have to be imported from Germany!!!

[Bob Willson]

If any of the arithmetic used still escapes you, I am happy to go into greater detail.

No that's fine thanks silent, I understood it all perfectly up until the words "To get" :D

But now we have Jackie confused. :)

[bitingmidge]

For example, I pay more than a student or child to see a film
At one time in my life, through illness I had a lengthy time wearing an eye patch. Every time we went to the cinema I'd ask for a 50% rebate because I only had one eye, and could only see half the screen.

NOT ONCE did I get away with it!!!

Bastards!!!!! (Let's just call them Cinema B from now on shall we??)

P
:D :D :D

[silentC]

Jackie, Jackie, Jackie, when will you ever learn? This daily struggle you have with everything Australian would be made so much easier if you would just lay back and go with the flow. Who cares if squares are a silly and arcane system of measuring house floor areas? That's the way it's done and we just have to live with it.

Now as for ladder stand-offs, I'm not surprised at the cost nor that they have to be imported from Germany because, frankly, I've no idea what one is.

;)

[silentC]

At one time in my life, through illness I had a lengthy time wearing an eye patch. Every time we went to the cinema I'd ask for a 50% rebate because I only had one eye, and could only see half the screen.

NOT ONCE did I get away with it!!!

Bastards!!!!! (Let's just call them Cinema B from now on shall we??)

P
:D :D :D
I used to ask the barber for a discount because he had less work to do. He threatened to charge me a finder's fee. Let's call him Barber C. :D

[bitingmidge]

square yards..(snip) ...are all fine

but I prefer them to have a more rectiliniar shape.

I REALLY love this thread.... well it's more a spiral really...

:D :D :D
P

[silentC]

Actually more like a double helix at the moment.

[ndru]

Actually more like a double helix at the moment.

Wait until the foil hat joins in... ;)

[TassieKiwi]

1m2=10.76f2

1m2=1.196yards2

IF 3yards2=1square, then 10.764m2 is one square. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon9.gif

[silentC]

I've been looking at house plans a lot lately. Most of them give you squares and square metres. Here's an example of one I'm looking at now: Living Area: 206sqm (22.3sq). 206 / 22.3 = 9.23. Therefore, if they are quoting the correct figures, 1 square must be 9.23 square metres, no?

[craigb]

Gee I thought I asked a simple question.

I always thought that a square was 10' x 10' or 100 sq feet.

Now I'm buggered if I know what it is :eek: :confused:

[bitingmidge]

I've been looking at house plans a lot lately. Most of them give you squares and square metres. Here's an example of one I'm looking at now: Living Area: 206sqm (22.3sq). 206 / 22.3 = 9.23. Therefore, if they are quoting the correct figures, 1 square must be 9.23 square metres, no?

Are you saying you've found the nine in the 9-10-11 metric rule of thumb??

Now at the risk of starting this all over again:

A square was originally 100 sq ft.

There has been enough mathematical evidence provided above to show that 100 square feet does NOT equal 10 square metres.

With the passage of time some unknowing, lazy people have referred to 10 square metres as a "Square" and I suspect that in a few years it's original meaning will be lost to antiquity.

A "SQUARE" is not a unit of measure, so can be used by anyone at anytime to describe any size without recrimination. You can't go to Consumer Affairs, and complain that you thought a square was bigger!

Now check out the manner in which the area has been calculated. One of the great ploys by the humpy building fraternity is to measure "under roof" which is actually to the outside of the eaves. (A faux-square??) This gives a surprising increase in apparent area, with a surprising decrease in the rate per square metre to build.

Make sure that when you are comparing apples with apples, all areas are calculated to the outside face of the external walls or glass line in accordance with the Standard Method of Measurement.

How big were Builder A's "squares"???

P

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[silentC]

I just went back a few posts and realise that I said I was proving that 1 square = 10 square feet. What I MEANT to say was 1 square = 10 feet square, or 100 square feet. I think this is where the confusion lies. 1 square is 10 feet square, which is NOT the same as 10 square feet. I humbly apologise for any contribution my error might have made to the stability of the system of weights and measures in this great country of ours.

[TassieKiwi]

100f2/10.76=9.29m2=9.3m2.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/18/18_7_24.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSzeb001YYAU)

[DarrylF]

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the only reason this bulk order is happening this time around is mainly due to the good offices of DarrylF.

Will it ever happen again?

Who knows.

Ask Darryl (or maybe Rob :) )

For myself, I'm not counting on it.
I'd do it again, IF nobody makes life difficult for me in this one, I'm not out of pocket and there's a reasonable demand for another go.

[jackiew]

http://www.acrobuildingsystems.com/la_Standoff.htm

it gives you the idea what they are used for Silent C but the design of the one I rashly sold before coming out here was a bit different. They are very useful things when you want to clean your gutters and your house is either 2 storey or on a serious slope.

... anyone who knows me knows that going with the flow is going against my essential nature :D

[silentC]

anyone who knows me knows that going with the flow is going against my essential nature
We know!!! ;)

[ernknot]

Please don't lure them here, the prices will be too much. I can get stuff I want at a price I want and the shipping cost is OK. Much quicker than local outfits and nothing is on "back order!!!!"

[burn]

It would be interesting to know how much LV sells to OZ per year? Then freight costs.
Would the volume be enough to get distributor discounts? Without a decent discount one would
a. Not make it a viable business (for the distributor)
nor
b. Make it competitive with/for the existing resellers here.

If LV set up a distributor (one would assume, sole, given the market here), then the discount would have to be sufficent for the distributor to make money as well as the retailer (Carbatec/Mik/Timbercon, etc). How would a distributor benefit us? My guess would be an average of at least 10 to 15% reduction on the existing retail on our current retailer's prices were a distribution channel set up. The other advantage of the distributor would be quicker deliveries, quicker repair/exchange for the no doubt occassional failure, perhaps if the distributor were to take more of the pie, then the retailers might be happier as they would carry less stock.

Stop it .... I did this with IT for 10 years and got out ...

Musing ...

Burn

[outback]

Please don't lure them here, the prices will be too much. I can get stuff I want at a price I want and the shipping cost is OK. Much quicker than local outfits and nothing is on "back order!!!!"
I tend to agree.
I don't think the market is big enough to setup a "Lee Valley" in Aus. The thing we all like is the customer service combined with the lower prices we have to pay here.
The customer service comes from a philosophy plus the people. They can try and ingrain the philosophy, but the wrong people can stuff it all up.
As for pricing, I dunno what would happen.
It is much more likely that a sole distributorship would be granted, the profile heightened etc. etc.
What would happen if Carbatec got this right?

[burn]

It is much more likely that a sole distributorship would be granted, the profile heightened etc. etc.
What would happen if Carbatec got this right?

I'm not sure Carbatec have the right philosophy for LV. I consider Carbatec to be at the cheap end of the market - look at the manual you get for one of their $700 - $2000 machines and then find the equivalent at Grizzly and look at their manual. Either Grizzly has taken it upon themselves to re-write the manual themselves or paid the extra $2.00 or whatever for a decent manual from the manufacturer.

To keep what we have with LV now, I think GPW (Gary Pye Woodturning) would be the best .. they have good equipment and at a very competitive price.

Burn

[craigb]

Speaking for myself, I equate Mik with LV.

Not that I have any issues with Carbatec.

[burn]

Speaking for myself, I equate Mik with LV.

Not that I have any issues with Carbatec.

MIK is very good, but GPW started as a mail order house and appears, from it's prices, to maintain the philosophy of good product AND good price. MIK can be a little pricey on some items, but their service can't be faulted (at least from my dealings with them).

My main complaint about Carbatec is manuals. I purchased an air filter from them this week and the manual was a parts diagram - look at the Grizzly equivalent or even Jet's, and they have a manual. With the 8" jointer I picked up last year from Carbatec, it was the Grizzly manual for exactly the same item, that helped my assembly it properly, not the one from Carbatec. I think Carbatec really needs to address this - their manuals are CRAP.

[silentC]

Who reads the manual? ;)

[burn]

Who reads the manual? ;)

Me. It's my last resort when something is not working as I expect it to, for those things I think I know about.

But it's always my first port of call when attempting to assemble something that just cost a few months worth of saving or something I've never used before.

I think that Grizzly, Delta and Jet could do serious damage to Carbatec by just removing their online manuals. Because that's where I get most of my infomation about the equipment I purchase from Carbatec - I assume it's the same for most people.

In case you are wondering, we only have Carbatec in Canberra and for major equipment purchases, I am concerned about freight charges on warranty repairs if I dealt with companies in Sydney/Brisbane/Melbourne.

Burn

[outback]

Manual?

He's from Barcelona you know, not his fault, but you can''t expect him to know how to set up a table saw. :D

[Robert WA]

Has anyone considered the implications of duty on the total value of a bulk order from Lee Valley?
As at the last time I sent an order to them, the total was less than $500 and I was not obliged to pay GST. Since then, as I understand it, the limit has been raised but I don't know what it is now. Whatever it is, the extra 10% if it is exceeded needs to be taken into account.
My son, the maths wizard, once explained to me that a square is a circle with corners. He was 6 at the time.

[craigb]

If you are refering to the Bessey clamp thing, then yes, we all expect to pay 15% of the $A purchase price (10% GST + 5% duty) for goverment charges.

[DarrylF]

Yep Robert, duty, GST and customs charges were all part of the calculations.