Sanding green turned objects- what are the options?

[tea lady]

So I had a lovely time green turning some bowls. I love them going oval as they dry. So now they are dry and no longer round what do i do to finish them? Hand sanding? :C Jim Carrol has these scotchbrite radial bristle discs (http://www.cws.au.com/shop/category/-scotchbrite-radial-bristle-discs). Anyone used them? What do other people do?

http://www.cws.au.com/persistent/catalogue_images/categories/SC%20Disc%20logo.jpg

[dai sensei]

Depends on the timber how green sanding goes, but I use wet & dry sand paper and a spray water bottle. Just make sure you dry down the lathe and relubricate afterwards. My lathe is covered in a teflon spray (dryglide) that also helps protect it.

[tea lady]

Depends on the timber how green sanding goes, but I use wet & dry sand paper and a spray water bottle. Just make sure you dry down the lathe and relubricate afterwards. My lathe is covered in a teflon spray (dryglide) that also helps protect it.I do wet sand when I turn them, which only adds to the fun. But now that they are dry they need another go. What do you use then? :)

[dai sensei]

Once they are dry, hand sanding is the way to go :-, unless you are lucky enough to have a very stable timber and your piece is remountable

[TTIT]

So I had a lovely time green turning some bowls. I love them going oval as they dry. So now they are dry and no longer round what do i do to finish them? Hand sanding? :C Jim Carrol has these scotchbrite radial bristle discs (http://www.cws.au.com/shop/category/-scotchbrite-radial-bristle-discs). Anyone used them? What do other people do?

http://www.cws.au.com/persistent/catalogue_images/categories/SC%20Disc%20logo.jpgI grabbed some of the coarsest grit (yellow) to try them out and to be honest, you get similar results rubbing the surface with your finger :C . About the only use I found for them was taking off the 'fur' you get when texturing some softer timbers. :shrug:

[tea lady]

. About the only use I found for them was taking off the 'fur' you get when texturing some softer timbers. :shrug::C I guess hand sanding it is then. :doh:

[brendan stemp]

The other option is to put the finished item in Neil Scobie's special sanding box.

[tea lady]

The other option is to put the finished item in Neil Scobie's special sanding box.:hmm: So tell us more. :U

[brendan stemp]

:hmm: So tell us more. :U
It was one of Neil's party tricks. He turned an item on the lathe and then put it in a box. In the box was an electric motor connected to.....nothing! It just made a noise, jiggled the box around and created the appearance that something was going on. When he turned the switch off and opened the lid he pulled out the item that was now sanded. Actually it was a replica he had prepared earlier and put into the box prior to the demo.

It fooled some but only for a very short time, but, interestingly, this time lengthened the further north he travelled:D

[tea lady]

It was one of Neil's party tricks. He turned an item on the lathe and then put it in a box. In the box was an electric motor connected to.....nothing! It just made a noise, jiggled the box around and created the appearance that something was going on. When he turned the switch off and opened the lid he pulled out the item that was now sanded. Actually it was a replica he had prepared earlier and put into the box prior to the demo.

It fooled some but only for a very short time, but, interestingly, this time lengthened the further north he travelled:D:doh: So even HE didn't have a real solution! :rolleyes:

(Didn't fool anyone in Horshem did it? :D )

[Roger C]

Tea Lady I am afraid hand sanding is the only way out. Please remember it can take up to 3 times to finish than what it took to turn.Try and invest in a hand scraper. I make mine out of old power hack saw blades. These are mostly HSS or bi-metal and they can be cut with a small angle grinder and shaped on the grinder, tear drop shape or round nose work well. Very handy in finishing natural edge foms. Regrds Roger C
PS You can make at least 7 or more from one blade and the engeneering firms may ask you a few dollars or just give it to you.:U

[mick59wests]

you will all be able to tell I am new at this but.........

why not finish the bowl while still green? Will it stop it from changing shape? Will it stop it from cracking or will it make it go all mouldy as the wetness tries to escape?

I am guessing the answers depend on the timber and how wet it is but have no real understanding of what it might do - even the theory :)

There seems to me lots of ways of drying green turned bowls and am trying to work out why you could not finish them and be done!

I have actually finished a few small pieces of (see pictures) and so far (1 to 3 weeks) they are holding. These were finished with EEE and u-beaut glow.

cheers

Mick

[ticklingmedusa]

I've done some off the machine sanding by hand and once beyond the coarser grits
have experimented with steel wool.
If the wood is green & open grained it probably is not a great option because the steel
can react with the wood and possibly stain the piece.
For tighter grain and dense, dry material it might be useful but not great for blonde wood.
I'm experimenting with rottenstone and pumice .
First I tried a block of pumice. I use one to clean the barbeque grill with.
It cuts fast but falls apart...
dusty protection is needed.

I found pumice and rottenstone at Rockler.
Apply with a clean scrap of felt.
Water or oil can be used to lubricate and keep the dust down.
Pumice Stone and Rotten Stone - Rockler Woodworking Tools (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2184&Max=999)

The pumice precedes the rottenstone.
They are very fine grits in powdered form that produce a deep polish.
I used edible flaxseed oil with a lime essential oil just for the fragrance
just because that oil was on hand.
It's dirty work but not hard to clean up .
Keep lots of rags handy & work over newspaper.

With the rottenstone again due to it's darkness (blackness) it may not be appropriate for all timbers
especially the lighter ones.
Feels like powdered slate.
Pumice on the other hand is white and perhaps a good choice for the lighter woods.
Pumice feels like powdered sugar.

The other thing I can tell you is to keep your tai chi strong and maintain good posture when doing this kind of work.
I ended up quite sore after a few sessions of hand rubbing.

[tea lady]

you will all be able to tell I am new at this but.........

why not finish the bowl while still green? Will it stop it from changing shape? Will it stop it from cracking or will it make it go all mouldy as the wetness tries to escape?



cheers

MickI have finished things while still green as well. the piece I am contemplating did get sanded quite finely I think. :think: (Can't remember now ) but now it need another go. :doh:

Was contemplating putting my Sanding pad set into a jacobs chuck in the lathe, then bringing the bowl up to the spinning sand paper rather than the sand paper to the spinning bowl.

[tea lady]

I've done some off the machine sanding by hand and once beyond the coarser grits
have experimented with steel wool.
I thought steel wool was only recomended for shellac or varnished pieces, as it burnishes the wood fibers rather than cutting them so clogs the pores, not letting the finish penetrate. :shrug:

[KBs PensNmore]

Hi Tea Lady,
I have a sanding mop made from strips of clothbacked sand paper with a bolt to hold it all together. If your bowl is not to deep you may be able to use this to sand the inside and ouside, I have used this on several other items to sand and buff "fur" off.
Kryn

[tea lady]

Hi Tea Lady,
I have a sanding mop made from strips of clothbacked sand paper with a bolt to hold it all together. If your bowl is not to deep you may be able to use this to sand the inside and ouside, I have used this on several other items to sand and buff "fur" off.
KrynDid you home make this? If so I think we need pics. No matter how humble you thionk it looks. :U

[robo hippy]

My specialty. You can sand them while wet, but you need lubrication, either oil or water, and it is a mess. I prefer to let them dry, warp and sand. Choices here are either use the spindle lock, sand in one position, then move, or have a 3 phase converter that is programmed so that the lowest speed it goes is in the 10 to 15 rpm range. Any faster than about 25 to 30, and you can not keep your abrasives on the wood.

Most of the 3 phase converters are programmed to turn off at 50 rpm. My first VS lathe was a PM3520A which would go all the way down. When they up graded to the B model, they switched the off range to 50 rpm. I asked them why and was told that if you have speeds that low, your motor will over heat and you will fry your electronics. I told them that I had sanded out thousands of bowls at those speeds, and never had any problems. They informed me that it was not possible. They could program the lathe to run that slow, but I would have to ship the headstock to them, and they would void my warranty. I now have a Robust, and had the owner (Brent English) walk me through the steps to reprogram the converter so the speed goes to almost 0 before turning off. Works fine. I do check the motor housing for temperature, and it runs much cooler when I sand than it does when I turn. Main reason is there is no load on the motor.

If you have a flex shaft type of sander, it is light enough so that you can hold it in one hand, and spin the bowl by hand with the sander using your hand as a brake, or just use that hand to advance the bowl. I use an angle drill and some times use the drill to rotate the bowl for rough spots. It does wear out your arm if you have to do it a lot. Some one needs to invent an articulated arm to support the sander so we don't have to hold them.

robo hippy

[mick59wests]

Robo,

why do you need to use a lubricant if you sand them while wood is still a bit wet? I am a bit lost here, as the few I have tried, I turned, let them 'dry' for between a few hours and a week (with newspaper or brown paper bags wrapped around them) and then sanded dry while still on the lathe. They seem to be OK so far but I know I am missing something.......

cheers

Mick

PS: I need to work out how to include the original text in my reply!

[robo hippy]

If you turn really thin, in the 1/8 inch or less, they will dry enough to sand out fairly quickly, in an hour or three, and generally don't load up the abrasives too much. I turn mine to 1/4 to maybe 1/2 inch. If I am turning fresh sloppy wet wood, and try to sand a finish turned bowl, it clogs up the abrasives some thing fierce. The lubrication helps keep the abrasives from loading up as much. The rubber eraser sticks (disc cleaners) can easily remove most build up.

I have found dry wood to be much less fuss and bother to sand out.

Efficiency is intelligent laziness!

robo hippy

[Sturdee]

PS: I need to work out how to include the original text in my reply!

Mick, use the Quote button instead of the Post reply buttton.

You then have the previous post that you can edit to only leave the necessary part that you want to talk about.


Peter.

[tea lady]

:cool: Will try a few things on the weekend.

[mick59wests]

If you turn really thin, in the 1/8 inch or less, they will dry enough to sand out fairly quickly, in an hour or three, and generally don't load up the abrasives too much. I turn mine to 1/4 to maybe 1/2 inch. If I am turning fresh sloppy wet wood, and try to sand a finish turned bowl, it clogs up the abrasives some thing fierce. The lubrication helps keep the abrasives from loading up as much. The rubber eraser sticks (disc cleaners) can easily remove most build up.

I have found dry wood to be much less fuss and bother to sand out.

Efficiency is intelligent laziness!

robo hippy

Much appreciated. The stuff I have done has not been freshly cut (but still fairly wet) and I have left them for a little while between turning and sanding so that is why I have not had the clogging issue.
cheers
Mick

[NeilS]

What Robo Hippy said... +

If your lathe does not go slow enough, turn it off and let the power sander rotate the piece (the reverse of an inertia sander).

Control the speed of rotation by varying the abrasive pressure against the piece. You get more momentum at the rim and less as you move towards the bottom. The trick is to not get too much momentum at the rim which causes the abrasive to skip the end grain areas (on the inside, where it is needed most) and then to have sufficient to keep the piece rotating as you reach the bottom. With a little practice you can use the momentum created at the rim to complete a pass down through the bottom before the piece stops rotating.

The speed of rotation can also be reduced by changing the belt setting to increase the drag that is created with the rotation of the unpowered motor.

It's an extra fuss, but turning green to final thickness has its rewards in some lovely relaxed profiles, e.g. just finished a batch of the following last week.

203318

[rsser]

Lovely piece there Neil.

+1 to completing the finishing while green and on the lathe. I power sand and to hell with the expense of clogged discs. (But if you do a lot of this, get stearate treated open-coat abrasives). Then slop on some nitro-cellulose sanding sealer, knock it back with 0000 steel wool, apply paste wax and buff.

That finish will dull somewhat as the piece finishes drying off the lathe but another coat of wax and a buff by hand will boost the lustre.

[tea lady]

I do sand when green. Its just that this piece needs another go.

[Paul39]

Robo Hippy: Some one needs to invent an articulated arm to support the sander so we don't have to hold them.

Assembly lines have motorized screw and nut drivers counterbalanced with counter weights or clock spring devices so the tool has no apparent weight when held at the working position.

You could make one with a length of strong cord (550 parachute riser cord), two pulleys and a counterweight.

See center one here: http://www.schneider-company.com/images/weber/img04.png

[TTIT]

So I had a lovely time green turning some bowls. I love them going oval as they dry. So now they are dry and no longer round what do i do to finish them? Hand sanding? :C Jim Carrol has these scotchbrite radial bristle discs (http://www.cws.au.com/shop/category/-scotchbrite-radial-bristle-discs). Anyone used them? What do other people do?

http://www.cws.au.com/persistent/catalogue_images/categories/SC%20Disc%20logo.jpgUpdate - After rubbishing these discs last week I actually found a use for them today - and didn't they save me some work :U. I've been carving some small legs for a bowly thing from Gidgee - initial shaping with the Foredom and a rotary rasp followed by the mini drum sander to remove the rasp marks. From here I usually hand sand through the grits from 320 to 1000 but today I only got as far as the 400 and decided to pull out the radial discs (the yellow grade) and see if they had any effect - :o - removed the last of the scratch marks and left a finish that hardly needed finishing - cool!. Anything that saves hand sanding those fiddly little bits has to be good :2tsup: