PDA

View Full Version : Band saw tune up



TORB
22nd May 2012, 05:40 PM
Hi Good Peoples,

Bought a new Hafco BP-355 band saw and have been playing around with it. I think haemorrhoids would be less of a pain in the ass than getting one of these accurately set up, and every time the blade is changes, its more adjustments. The results had better be worth it. :B

I think I have most of the tuning figured out but I have one question I need to resolve. The blade is is parallel to the fence and 90 degrees to the table, so that's good. However, If I put a square at the back edge of the blade it is not parallel to the square. There is a slight gap which means that when I am sawing, the blade will make contact with the top of the job before the bottom. Is this a problem? I have tried a million different adjustments but can't seem to get this one sorted out.

Also, as an aside the fence has an interesting problem. The left side of the fence is fine i.e. 90 degrees to the table top, but on the right side, there is .5mm difference between the bottom of the fence and the top. So, when resawing, when the wood is pushed against the right side of the fence, it causes the right edge of the base of the wood to lift of the table slightly, resulting in a cut that is thicker at the bottom than at the top. Will have to contact Hare and Forbes about that one tomorrow.

NCArcher
22nd May 2012, 07:07 PM
The fence is a replacement job or make up a face to fit on the fence that corrects the problem.
As for the blade, first check that the wheels are coplaner. this can be done with a straight edge across the two wheels. If the top wheel is slightly further out than the bottom wheel you need to pack out the lower wheel or remove packing from the top one to get them in the same plane.
If the wheels are ok you may need to shim the table. Place some fine shims, I used a cut up coke can, under the rear trunion where it mounts to the table. This will raise the back of the table and bring your blade back to where it should be.
It's worth spending a bit of time getting the bandsaw set up properly as it is a very versatile machine that you will wonder how you ever got by without.

rustynail
22nd May 2012, 08:53 PM
Have you set the tracking of the blade and let it run for a few minutes before trying to fine tune?

Hermit
22nd May 2012, 09:54 PM
Also, as an aside the fence has an interesting problem. The left side of the fence is fine i.e. 90 degrees to the table top, but on the right side, there is .5mm difference between the bottom of the fence and the top. So, when resawing, when the wood is pushed against the right side of the fence, it causes the right edge of the base of the wood to lift of the table slightly, resulting in a cut that is thicker at the bottom than at the top. Will have to contact Hare and Forbes about that one tomorrow.

Are you sure it's the fence, or is the table bowed?
I ask because I bought a BP-305 last week and the table is bowed. I'm trying to sort out a replacement.
It's worth checking with a straight edge.


As for the blade, first check that the wheels are coplaner. this can be done with a straight edge across the two wheels. If the top wheel is slightly further out than the bottom wheel you need to pack out the lower wheel or remove packing from the top one to get them in the same plane.
Shouldn't a new bandsaw come with the wheels already set co-planar? Aside from basic tuning, setting guides, thrust rollers, tracking and tension, the bandsaw should be ready to use 'out-of-the-box'.
We shouldn't need to go hunting for shims or other extra parts to get the thing working.
I had a range of problems with mine too.

TORB
23rd May 2012, 04:41 AM
Thanks for the advice guys.

I will check the table, but the fence is a definite problem. A square showed the problem and it was confirmed when I measured the fence with callipers. The top is .5mm thinner than the bottom.

I did let it run, but possibly not long enough, so I will do that next. Not sure about the co-planer bit, but will check it out and research the topic.

Now I have somewhere to start. :)

NCArcher
23rd May 2012, 08:06 AM
Shouldn't a new bandsaw come with the wheels already set co-planar? Aside from basic tuning, setting guides, thrust rollers, tracking and tension, the bandsaw should be ready to use 'out-of-the-box'.
We shouldn't need to go hunting for shims or other extra parts to get the thing working.

You would think so wouldn't you. But I wouldn't take it for granted. Check and tighten everything.

rustynail
23rd May 2012, 10:09 AM
With the op edge of the work entering the teeth first is preferable to the bottom At least that way you can see exactly where the cut is in relation to the line mark. But, when cutting tennon cheeks etc it's nice to have an even plumb cut. Tracking the blade would sort this out.

TORB
24th May 2012, 06:23 AM
I spent most of yesterday ****ing about becoming a band saw set up 'expert.' :; And we all know that an 'ex' is a has been and that a 'spert' is a drip under pressure. :D

I now almost feel I know what I am doing with all the adjustments. Spoke to George the technical guy at Hairy Forbes and they will replace the defectively milled fence however, the square of the blade problem is 'interesting.'

No matter how many times I adjusted it, and how well its adjusted, or how often the tracking is changed, the blades teeth at table level are always closer to the timber than at the top of the job.

If the blade is tracked so that the deepest part of the gullet (gap between the teeth) is on the crown of the wheel (that supports the teeth and is the prefect position according to Alex Snodgrass of Carter products, manufacturer of band saw products and accessories) the blade is about .5mm away from the work piece at a height of 150mm above the table.

Here is where it gets interesting. According to George at Hairy Forbes, the machine they have on the floor has about a 2mm difference, and he thought that was 'normal.' When I mentioned I had conflicting info from the internet, he was not very complimentary about the quality of advice available here, however he had a different reaction when I mentioned that other manufacturers who produced nothing but band saws and their accessories said the same thing as the people here. He stated he would check with their quality control people.

When I tracked the blade so that the middle of the blade was on the middle of the tyre, the gap went from .5mm over 150mm to a gap of 2mm; the same as the H&F floor machine. So, if I follow the H&F destruction manual, the result is worse than if I follow Carter Products video advice. Band Saw Clinic with Alex Snodgrass - YouTube

"Interesting!"

_fly_
24th May 2012, 07:19 AM
Is good, I like.....

rustynail
24th May 2012, 09:11 AM
Rick, you may like to ask George at Hairy Paws how much time he has spent tuning bandsaws. Gullet on edge of tyre is good as this causes minimum wear to the tyre. Have you checked the coplaner of the wheels? Also check distance from front edge of wheel to front edge of tyre. If the tyres are set differently to each other the coplaner of the wheels is compromised,. Also check the table for level, once the wheels have been set to plumb. This doesnt mean moving the wheels in relation to each other,thus altering the coplaner, but instead, leveling the saw frame base so that the coplanered wheels are plumb. I know this is a lot of stuffing about, but it will be worth it in the long run. There is nothing more pleasing than to work with a well tuned bandsaw and nothing worse than one that is not. These tests should show up the problem and we can look at a remedy.

TORB
24th May 2012, 02:33 PM
Rusty, Once again, thanks for the advice. I have done all that and it is a co-planer issue.

George from Hairy Forbes rang back and could not have been more helpful. I am really impressed with their service. He admitted that the blade should be square as I had outlined to him (from info here and on the Snodgrass video. (You gotta love that name :p) George offered to send a service man out to the Southern Highlands (a 3 hour round trip drive) to fix the co-planer adjustment.

He also explained how to do it and I said I would give it a shot myself. If I stuff it up, or can't manage to adjust it properly, then he will send the service guy. He is also arranging a fence replacement.

Hermit
25th May 2012, 06:23 PM
Rusty, Once again, thanks for the advice. I have done all that and it is a co-planer issue.

George from Hairy Forbes rang back and could not have been more helpful. I am really impressed with their service. He admitted that the blade should be square as I had outlined to him (from info here and on the Snodgrass video. (You gotta love that name :p) George offered to send a service man out to the Southern Highlands (a 3 hour round trip drive) to fix the co-planer adjustment.

He also explained how to do it and I said I would give it a shot myself. If I stuff it up, or can't manage to adjust it properly, then he will send the service guy. He is also arranging a fence replacement.

How did you go with the adjustment? I'm still doing battle over the problem with my BP-305, but I think I'm getting somewhere. George keeps saying all the right things to me too, but actually does nothing. Dean is handling it now. I'll see what happens.

SAISAY
26th May 2012, 07:47 AM
Shouldn't a new bandsaw come with the wheels already set co-planar? Aside from basic tuning, setting guides, thrust rollers, tracking and tension, the bandsaw should be ready to use 'out-of-the-box'.
We shouldn't need to go hunting for shims or other extra parts to get the thing working.
I had a range of problems with mine too.

Anything can happen in shipping. OR, maybe the manufacturers are sloppy?
Mine arrived with 2 broken tyres on the wheels and the tension arrow bent 40 degrees.
Even in a wooden crate it depends how the shippers are handling the cargo.
H&F were very quick to send me the parts.
Cheers
Wolffie

Hermit
26th May 2012, 09:37 AM
Mine arrived with 2 broken tyres on the wheels and the tension arrow bent 40 degrees.


So much for H&F quality control and testing.

SAISAY
26th May 2012, 03:17 PM
So much for H&F quality control and testing.
I can't say whether this happened on the ship coming over here or on the semitrailer bringing it up here.
Guess it was the semitrailer because part of the crate was broken as well :(
Can't really blame H&F if it happened AFTER it left the warehouse.
However, their after sales service was first class :2tsup:
Cheers
Wolffie

Hermit
26th May 2012, 03:38 PM
Can't really blame H&F if it happened AFTER it left the warehouse.

True.



However, their after sales service was first class :2tsup:
Cheers
Wolffie

Yeah, most people have a good experience, but in some cases it leaves a lot to be desired. In my case, they have no parts on hand and are unlikely to have very soon by the sound of it, but George didn't want to tell me that, so avoided me for a week.
I don't mind if it takes a little time, but don't want to be left in the dark like that and only want to know the timeframe.
Enough said. Sorry TORB.

SAISAY
26th May 2012, 05:07 PM
Like Carbatec who sold me a CNC machine that wasn't even in the country yet and then upped the price $1100.- because it was a newer model and they no longer carry the one they advertise :((
Wolffie

Hermit
26th May 2012, 05:34 PM
Like Carbatec who sold me a CNC machine that wasn't even in the country yet and then upped the price $1100.- because it was a newer model and they no longer carry the one they advertise :((
Wolffie

Mmm. All about the $$, isn't it?

Chris Parks
27th May 2012, 11:32 PM
If I put a square at the back edge of the blade it is not parallel to the square. There is a slight gap which means that when I am sawing, the blade will make contact with the top of the job before the bottom. Is this a problem? I have tried a million different adjustments but can't seem to get this one sorted out.

My bandsaw, not from H&F, had this same problem. It turns out that on mine if the table is removed there are grubscrews that can be adjusted to tilt the whole trunnion assembly. Though not the same brand it might be good to check if yours is the same. The retailer was not aware that this adjustment was possible and had to consult others!

Pariss
28th May 2012, 01:23 AM
Hey Ric, I feel your frustration with this problem. I have a Powermatic PM14 bandsaw, and even though it is considered a 'high-end' brand, it still requires a lot of mucking around with to achieve good results. Whenever I have to change a blade, I have to go through the rig-moral of adjusting for bandsaw blade drift and re-adjusting all the normal settings etc. I mainly use this saw for re-sawing wide timber for box's and small cabinetry works, so there is generally a 3/4" blade on it. Here is another very useful video on tuning the bandsaw for drift etc. Hope it helps.
34-How to Adjust for Bandsaw Drift - Medium.m4v - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JNsLNJsMj0o)

pmcgee
29th May 2012, 04:24 AM
Thanks for the video links.

I love a well-tuned bandsaw :)

Paul.

TORB
29th May 2012, 03:14 PM
Pariss, thanks for that link. The guy could teach Marcel Marceau a thing or three :D, but what he lacks in voice, he makes up for in pencil marking. :o

I finally finished a job that was approaching a deadline (two smick cutting boards) that are to be given away as presents so did not have time to look at the band saw until this morning.

I tried to loosen the screw holding the bottom wheel, but it would be a challenge for Samson the Circus Strongman. So, I rang old mate George at Hairy Forbes and the upshot is that they will need to replace it. :oo:

He is arranging to have one pulled from the warehouse and set up to make sure it is all ok, and then they will deliver it and pick up the defective one. I wonder how long it will all take to happen?

Hermit
29th May 2012, 04:14 PM
I wonder how long it will all take to happen?

Hopefully not long, Ric.

Things are moving with my table now after a shaky start.
I got to check the THIRD table in a pic, with a straight-edge, before agreeing to take it. Can't do better than that. It's on the way, from Melbourne.
Dean threw in some free blades, to keep the peace.

They will probably look after you similarly, I'd say.

Good luck.

TORB
1st Jun 2012, 10:37 AM
Hairy Forbes had two service calls scheduled in my area today so decided to see if band saw could be easily adjusted. The guy arrived on time. :o

Troy (heck of a good bloke) played around with it and after sometime started to mumble what must have been four letter words. :banghead:

During our conversation, I mentioned the damage that had occurred to the lower door during transport and that I had beaten it out with a rubber mallet.

Troy responded.....:o ........:doh: Well that explains why I have run out of adjustment. It must have been bent in transport.

So now, they are going to run one up in the warehouse and check it out completely. I should have it late next week. Good service from this mob.

TORB
5th Jun 2012, 03:30 PM
Good news. My new/replacement band saw was delivered today and the defective one taken back.

Top marks for service to Hairy Forbes. Their communication by both phone and email was first rate. The whole interaction and process was totally professional.

Many other companies should take a leaf out of Hare and Forbes book about customer service and how to do things properly.

SAISAY
6th Jun 2012, 05:57 PM
I Band Saw Clinic with Alex Snodgrass - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU)

"Interesting!"

Thank you for the link, very interesting.
I downloaded it so I can watch it a few times.
Wonder whether that doodah will be available here.
Looks like a very good idea even though it is around $90.
Cheers
Wolffie

TORB
9th Jun 2012, 12:12 PM
The new band saw was checked by H&F before delivery and the blade was 100% perpendicular to the base when it arrived so all was good.

Then I did the rest of the set up, turned it on and cut some wood. Yippee! Not bad at all...... and then I checked the blade.

Its out by .75mm over 150mm. No matter what I do by way of tuning and playing with the top wheel, it remains out by .75mm

I know it is meant to 100% square, but what do I do now? Is it worth worrying about and will it have much/any impact on the life of the blades and or the accuracy of the work I am doing?

Hermit
9th Jun 2012, 12:18 PM
The new band saw was checked by H&F before delivery and the blade was 100% perpendicular to the base when it arrived so all was good.

Then I did the rest of the set up, turned it on and cut some wood. Yippee! Not bad at all...... and then I checked the blade.

Its out by .75mm over 150mm. No matter what I do by way of tuning and playing with the top wheel, it remains out by .75mm

I know it is meant to 100% square, but what do I do now? Is it worth worrying about and will it have much/any impact on the life of the blades and or the accuracy of the work I am doing?

Ric, mine is out by 2-3mm over the same distance, with the bottom of the blade leading.
0.75mm sounds good to me. Mine's new too, but does have those other faults.

tdrumnut
9th Jun 2012, 02:25 PM
After reading this thread and prior to making my first bandsaw box I decided to tune up my bandsaw using the Alex Snodgrass method and wow what a difference, certainly worth the effort.

Cheers
Rumnut

Hermit
9th Jun 2012, 02:31 PM
After reading this thread and prior to making my first bandsaw box I decided to tune up my bandsaw using the Alex Snodgrass method and wow what a difference, certainly worth the effort.
Cheers
Rumnut

By coincidence, I just finished watching Snodgrass' 'Bandsaw Clinic' video a few minutes ago myself and was wondering if anyone had tried his method of tuning.
His ideas are contrary to popular belief, but make good sense, although I have some concern that running the blade gullets in the centre of the wheel would wear the rubber out very fast.
When my bandsaw hassles are sorted out I'll try setting up his way too.

Chris Parks
9th Jun 2012, 07:19 PM
His point was that the side guides don't have to be moved if the gullet is in the same spot. Prior to that he stated that a well tuned BS does not have drift, both true statements in my experience. What I don't get is these two statements can be contradictory, to stop drift you have to change the tracking and this would require the side guides being moved. My primary focus is on drift, get rid of it and the saw is far easier to use so I guess I will have to move the guides as required. I also question his assertion that running the saw on the bearings causes the blade to overheat, surely the saw passing through the timber will cause more heat than revolving bearings.

Groggy
9th Jun 2012, 07:53 PM
I wandered out the shed after watching that video and gave it a go, just for giggles.

I followed his instructions pretty much to the letter on a Jet JWBS-18Xa.

On a 1" blade the tracking, tension, alignment and adjustments all went as he suggested. A sample cut was pretty good. I have not tested for drift yet as it was getting a bit late to fire up machinery. I might have another play tomorrow.

Based on what I have seen so far I can only agree that what he says in the video is accurate.

My favourite suggestion is to remove the table, he is right, access and everything else is simplified.

EDIT: I found it useful when setting the tracking to use a white wax pencil to run a line down the centre of the wheel. Then I could see the line in the gullet more easily.

TORB
10th Jun 2012, 06:31 AM
I also question his assertion that running the saw on the bearings causes the blade to overheat, surely the saw passing through the timber will cause more heat than revolving bearings.

We all know metal on metal will definitely cause heat, but I have heard, and I think it may have even been in this video, that the wood actually absorbs the heat created by the blade running through it, which stops the blade heating up. That also makes some sense.

Chris Parks
10th Jun 2012, 12:32 PM
I still think the assertion that the bearings overheat the band is stretching things a bit. What I think may be more the case is that the weld is subject to being bent back and forth by the bearings as it passes through them and gets fatigued by this action then breaks.

Groggy
10th Jun 2012, 01:31 PM
Regarding heat buildup, cutting the timber does provide some heat, as any friction will do, I fail to see how an insulator such as wood could draw heat away. The bearings will heat up through both internal and external friction but like others I doubt the claim they will have a significant effect unless they are firmly in contact with the blade (eg. pinching it). The blade will also heat up somewhat through constant flexing as it goes over the wheels, this is unavoidable.

I tend to agree with Mini that the weld heating more than the rest of the blade makes more sense for the casual observer. This may make a good case for buying blades with a well prepared weld as it should last longer; maybe it also makes a case for tidying up the weld prior to use if necessary.

wheelinround
10th Jun 2012, 01:37 PM
If the kerf of the blade is wider than the blade unless the wood closes up after the cut wet wood or dry the blade should not come into contact after the teeth have cut.

Heat transfers no matter what even if a small gap between surfaces.

Pull a piece of string. cord or what ever between your fingers slow or fast vary the grip.

DutchEnglishFrenchGermanItalianPortugueseSpanish
Translations supported by vBET 4.7.1