Pricing Bowls?

[Chrome]

Wow, it's so difficult.

I read recently it's better to have higher prices as it's always easier to reduce prices than put them up...

I've been in business many years in one form or another (including retail), so I'm not wet behind the ears when it comes to pricing. However that said, I'm really nervous about pricing my bowls...

Sure, I can use the; materials cost + labour time/cost + overheads apportionment (there I go sounding like a tax accountant) as my base costs then add a percentage mark up, but that is a bit clinical and does not really allow for 'desirability factor' or 'artistic value'.

What do you reckon...

For example is £40 GBP too much for the bowl I recently posted?

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5231/7421454386_4ba580a8a5_n.jpg
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Cheers,

Chrome

[hughie]

Pricing, well thats a bone of contention. Here in Oz theres not alot of support for paying for turned work other than small items. Larger work and artistic pieces are more of a challenge. We simply dont have the recognition or appreciation that you might see in the USA and perhaps UK.

[Paul39]

Chrome,

I sell through a craft shop on consignment, which takes 40%. I make the best bowl I can and then discuss with the owner what she can get for the bowl. If a bowl sits there for a year I bring it home and rework it, or let it rest for 6 months and take it back, possibly repriced.

I use a code number on the bottom which tells me the date, but is not apparent to the buyer. 1214 would be the 14th bowl made in 2012.

I was in a shop that had a segmented piece, beautifully done, that I thought was under priced. I commented to the owner, and she said that if it is priced higher it will not sell.

Go to craft shops, craft fairs, etc. and look at what is for sale and at what price. Compare the quality, finish, figure of wood, and difficulty in turning, of yours to what is on the market.

The usual buyer looks at an object and either likes it, finds the price reasonable and buys it, or not. They don't care if it took 2 or 20 hours to make the bowl.

Turners and astute collectors will recognize the labor to make something along with design, figure, workmanship, finish, etc. Some will even pay for it.

Assuming your bowl is 10 inches or so high and nicely finished, I think it would sell for around $75 in Asheville, North Carolina, USA. This is a tourist town and has lots of crafts people, so people come here looking for art.

[Dalboy]

I think it all depends on at what type of venue and also the area you intend to sell in. I find that at one show I go to I sell cheap pens and then move to another and they prefer the more expensive ones. This seems to be the same every year.
Another is if you really want to go for the higher end of the market then having a website to sell through

[Chrome]

Another is if you really want to go for the higher end of the market then having a website to sell through

Yes I'm sorted on that one :D Turned Out Well (http://www.turnedoutwell.co.uk)

Cheers, Chrome

[HardingPens]

Wow, it's so difficult.

I read recently it's better to have higher prices as it's always easier to reduce prices than put them up...

===trim===

Chrome
I have heard that comment many times and I do not agree with it. Admittedly, I do sell pens and small turnings more often then bowls.
Years ago I sold my turnings cheaper than I do now. I was not as good a turner then, and my worked showed it. As my work improved, I have regularily raised my prices to reflect that I am selling better quality turning work. As far as I know, I have never had a customer complain or even comment on my prices going up.

[Reaper]

I have heard that comment many times and I do not agree with it. Admittedly, I do sell pens and small turnings more often then bowls.
Years ago I sold my turnings cheaper than I do now. I was not as good a turner then, and my worked showed it. As my work improved, I have regularily raised my prices to reflect that I am selling better quality turning work. As far as I know, I have never had a customer complain or even comment on my prices going up.


:2tsup: I agree with that that one. I’m my retail experience (1/2 my working life!:no:) the idea to over price and then reduce can work but normally needs a large customer base and high level or return customers.

with bowls a customer will not (normally) be purchasing one every week or month so a increase of $5 would not be noticed and if it was would be written off as "moving with the times" (I cannot think of anything that has decreased in price over the last 10 year)

[hughie]

The question is how to price your bowls or put it another way how much per hour do you want to work for?

Price of the timber, finish and power usage and your labour cost. If I was running a regular manufacturing business selling to the public direct. I would probably have to charge atleast $40-50 to cover my costs etc. As I live in Sydney and costs will be higher than some other cities

That being said and given that I often carve my bowls and hollow vessels, along with a fine finish ie museum type finish. As I finish the outside and the inside to a similar degree.
My recent carved turnings would require a price somewhere in the region of $1000. This is based on time and costs not any artistic content or ability

A typical breakdown might be, using an hourly rate of $50

Timber : Burl $65
layout and general head scratching $40
power and light, including dusty $25
Turning time 2-3 hours $150
Carving 4-6 hours $300
sanding including finishing $250
transport, postage countrywide,
Including packaging etc $60
Rent or mortgage $25
total $915

Reasonable?I think so. I have a friend who rents a industrial unit to do his turning. I also have friends who rent their houses. So building costs are relevent as are all the other costs. OK its a hobby, but I was looking at it from a commercial point of view and I did not include maintenance or tool costs including the lathe.

As a hobby lathe and tools costs should be in there somewhere as well as power usage. As these are actual costs that can be seen and counted. Postage and handling or delivery are real costs and what of the costs of the finishing products, such as Danish oil,varnishes, polishing compounds, sand paper and so on.

[Willy Nelson]

Okay
I take the point that Hughie put across with marketing

Drive out to be bush and cut the timber (Fuel $20 for diesel and $10 for chainsaw. Time = $200)
Bring the timber home and put it through the bandsaw (power and time $100)
Wait for the timber to season and crack. Throw out the timber and buy some, $400 ton for Jarrah Burl)
Go out to the shed and havea beer, then a red and decide what to do. Should I just clean up? (Time $150 plus cost of drinkies, Oh, had to have some nibblies as well $10). Nothing done
Move the timber onto the bandsaw to make room to get to the lathe 1/2 hour. Crap, need to bandsaw some timber so I can turn it, move timber to dust extractor, bandsaw the timber, Crap, timber is in the way of the getting to the extractor =$130

Get my drift?

Lastly. a good thing to remember

The Larger the bowl, the smaller the market!'

Willy

Jarrahland

[Chrome]

Hmmm... Some good points. Food for thought... Thanks guys :D

Cheers, Chrome

[Reaper]

Drive out to be bush and cut the timber (Fuel $20 for diesel and $10 for chainsaw. Time = $200)


:hahaha: haha i have considered that one. apparently its a big fine if you get caught

[hughie]

What would be handy is some really big woody type symposiums to put turning on the map and therefore raise the appreciation level to somewhere near the USofA. :2tsup:

[Willy Nelson]

:hahaha: haha i have considered that one. apparently its a big fine if you get caught


Sorry mate, has to be done legal. I have a craft wood licence to legally cut Jarrah.

Wouldn't do it any other way

Cheers
Willy
Jarrahland

[NeilS]

As a hobby lathe and tools costs should be in there somewhere as well as power usage. As these are actual costs that can be seen and counted. Postage and handling or delivery are real costs and what of the costs of the finishing products, such as Danish oil,varnishes, polishing compounds, sand paper and so on.

And professional turners don't appreciate hobby turners undercutting them by failing to include those costs or putting a reasonable value on their time.

[Paul39]

And professional turners don't appreciate hobby turners undercutting them by failing to include those costs or putting a reasonable value on their time.

I would hope that buyers recognize the better design, workmanship, and finish of the professional bowl turner and buy that piece rather than the less expensive one.

I do recognize that hobby turners can be as good or better than professional turners because they are not thinking so much about time & materials = X dollars.

If there is a turner in your market making as many bowls as you with equal quality and grossly underpricing, a chat over a pint might be helpful. Something along the lines of "you are doing really nice work and it is worth more than you are charging".

I have found in my own evolution that my time to produce a bowl is getting much less, and the bowls are better. I started with the attitude that I would make the best bowl I can no matter how long it took, and sell for as much as I could.

I still have that attitude. Because of better lathe, tools, sharpening jigs, improved technique, roughing batches, etc., my time per bowl is cut by 2/3 to 3/4, and the price I get has gone up.

I wonder if people who make segmented pieces keep track of the hours. I saw a few pieces locally for $100 - $125 and asked the shop owner why they were so low priced. She explained that is all buyers would pay. Her commission was 50%, $50 take home for a nice segmented bowl is pretty darn poor.

[hughie]

]And professional turners don't appreciate hobby turners undercutting them by failing to include those costs or putting a reasonable value on their time




If there is a turner in your market making as many bowls as you with equal quality and grossly underpricing, a chat over a pint might be helpful. Something along the lines of "you are doing really nice work and it is worth more than you are charging".




I think that Neil your comments are valid and I suspect the difficult nature of 'valuation' tends get most hobby turners to price low for the fear of over pricing. Plus I notice that a lot of folks are interested in the 'utilitarian' type bowl or turned object. These will often be at the bottom of the pricing range. To add further insult to injury we have a wide range of 'third world' goods by their pricing seemed to be dumped on the market, thereby setting the value.

I dont think too many hobby turners would mind a bit advice from a Pro about value, good tip Paul. :2tsup:


As I have mentioned else where the appreciation level is quite low down under for turned art. If this was lifted then we would see values rise as well.