Renovations from start to finish Part A

[namtrak]

For no real reason I have decided to start tracking our renovations on the forum, from start to finish. I have been posting pits and pieces of our internal work, but I figure I can get heaps of good advice if I start posting info about the work we are undertaking outside. I'll add photos as we go.

Getting up to speed. We are currently getting quotes from builders for the complete job, however we have decided in the last few days to do it as owner builders. Originally we were going to go with a fixed price contract because which bank wouldn't lend money to owner builders, however we have since found that we are getting very high quotes from the builders and have figured out that there are other banks around. We are using a mortgage broker who is chasing up banks who will lend what we need to owner builders.

The process so far. We spent some 12 months looking at options regarding purchasing a new house, demolishing this one, adding on etc. I think we had around 15 or 16 different options. In the end we have settled on adding on because we got the house at such a good price $88,000 and 2 years later it (as is) it is probably worth around $200,000. Now, we figure that including added value of the addition, we could theortically spend around $200,000 and not over capitalise. However we want to avoid the trap of spending the money that we are capable of spending and only spend what we have to. There are also of course a myriad of life style choices which come with this house as well.

Once we decided on the addition, we then looked at what to do - go up, go sideways or go back. We decided on building over our driveway( sideways), because the drive runs the length of the house, is relatively useless space, we have rear lane access and we can design the house to match the existing.

With our layout already in mind we went to a draftee who took about a week or so (very quick) to come up with plans which we then took to the council.

To be continued.............

[namtrak]

These are the photos the place prior to construction, so as it is at the moment. I have cleared some trees down the driveway, we got a lopper in for that, after council approval. The lopper cost around $600 for 2 big trees and stump grinding about 6 stumps. He also left us a couple of cubes of mulch for our front garden. I was happy to do the lopping myself, but swmbo and common sense prevailed given my prediliction for having stuff land on our house. Basically he's insured and I'm not!!

I also cleared a car port and concrete the length of the driveway and along the back of the house(to date I used about nine 5 cubic metre bins - at about $150 each).

I have also included a photo of my labourer - angry little bastard that he is.

To be continued ................

[namtrak]

After we talked to way too many people (relatives have no place in deciding house plans :) ), we started looking for architects. Now it turns out that, and you can apply this principle to everybody you need to use in your home construction, that architects are way too busy and generally not interested in additions and renovations, so we broadened our search towards draftspeople :) . And I would suggest running with a draftee who uses CAD rather than drawing (assuming they still exist) because we have been able to go back with a myriad of changes which he makes on the spot for us.

Aside from the normal elevations and site plans we also required a Shadow Plan, to appease our neighbour (more about that under council approval).

I have included the drawings of the existing and new plans to provide some perspective on the project. You may notice that the extension is only 3000mm wide, which is really at the lower end of the scale on room sizes. We were bound by the boundary :rolleyes: which was only 3850 away, and this complicated things for us. Our application to the council was therefore for what is called a Zero Lot Line (building on the boundary) but more about that later.

The drawings (9 pages in all) cost $700 which I thought was pretty reasonable

To be continued ............

[simon c]

That's a really good idea.

Basically you are using the forum as a kind of Blog site.

Maybe we could have a separate forum for individual projects where each person could take out a thread allowing them to track their projects. Others could see what they are doing and add comments and you would then have a dated history of what you were up to.

How about it, admins?

I've been thinking about the same thing, so thanks for the extra inspiration.

Simon

[namtrak]

Everyone has horror stories regarding local councils and approvals etc, however so far I have found the processs relatively straight forward. My only advice is to always provide an amicable avenue for everyone (neighbours, council, subbies etc) to approach you through. If I start a big antagonistic letter writing campaign, I am only going to create heartache for myself. So my approach (as with most things anyway) is to maintain face to face contact with all parties.

The first part of the council approval is for a development application (DA), this basically outlines what our concepts are and gives the council a broad brush idea of what we are trying to achieve. The second step, which we haven't got to yet is a construction certificate, which tells the council exactly how the building will be made. So the council can make sure we aren't building it with paper mache!!

When we originally approached the council we asked about building to within 500mm of the boundary. And we were advised that we could either apply for a wall which was 1200mm from the boundary (which would make the internal rooms too small) or on the boundary (which would give us heaps of room inside, but it meant we could only build a parapet wall with a box gutter - a 3300mm high wall with the gutter on the inside, a rather ugly set-up and not within keeping our original idea of matching the existing house).

So we figured we had no choice but to apply to build on the boundary (a Zero Lot Line). Now we have 8 neighbours who were sent plans of the proposal by the council and had none of them objected we would have been ready to roll. However our nearest neighbour kicked up a fuss, with good reason, and we subsequently arranged an on site meeting between the 2 owners from next door, 5 council staff and myself. Aside from little bits and pieces, the neighbour suggested why dont we build to the width of the gutter (about 450mm). I said what a grand idea and the council agreed and we ended up with a house which is 600mm in from the boundary.

Being 600mm in still has some other ramifications, as it is still classed as a Zero Lot Line (because it is within the 1200mm) we need to build a fire rated wall (masonry construction with cement sheeting under the eaves), there are no windows allowed along the length of the boundary which is within the 1200mm, although we did get concession for some glass bricks about 1800mm up in the middle room.

One little tid bit, is that when you get written material from the council, don't panic if it doesn't make sense. As with any bureacracy they tend to use way too many words to say not much at all, so it may take a little to figure out what they are actually saying. I find I can get a translation from just ringing someone at the council ( I have rung 3 different people before I could find someone who could things in layman terms), or the other way is to apply the 3 Cooper principle, which of course works for clarifying most things as well.

So now we have our approved DA and can start getting quotes from builders

The approval process from the council cost $420 and is inclusive of the DA and the complying construction certificate.

To be continued..........

[namtrak]

.... as a kind of Blog site.....

That's a neat way of looking at it - I write a blog to stop getting in the blog...

And in the vein of all good blogs, there is a bloody dog yapping up the road which is tied up to a post with about a foot of chain and has been yapping since 8am!!!! Owners are pathetic.....

[namtrak]

This is the easiest part so far - not!!!!!!

When we originally approached the bank for broad brush approval they advised us that we would need a licenced builder and a fixed price contract to get the job done. Now I know at least half a dozen builders who work as subbies, and whilst not licenced builders they would all do a great job. Unfortunately the bank stipulates that we must use a fixed price contract, home warranty insurance (for jobs over $12,000) and a licenced builder. So....

We start going through the phone book, there are 78 builders listed in our yellow pages and I reckon we have rung all them once and some of them twice.

"Gidday, my name is Mick I'm looking for a builder to put in a quote on a job. It's rendered brick veneer, about 10 squares, we also need a kitchen refurbished and a ensuite"

"I can look at it in 9 months"

"I can put a quote in in about 2 months"

"I'm busy through to 2006''

"Catch up with me on my job site and I'll look at the plans here"

"Too busy, but try ......"

Ad In Finitum......

We ended up with 9 builders who came and looked at the job, and I reckon we got 5 usable quotes.

And this is where things get interesting. Our first quote was for $248,000. Which if we are generous and allow $28,000 for the kitchen (Im providing benchtops) and the ensuite, comes in at around $22,000 a square!!! This is roughly how builders look at the cost of a job. A square is 10 feet by 10 feet, so this addition (including verandah) is roughly 95 sqm or about 10 squares (not a biggie in the scheme of things). As a comparison we can get a brand new 4 bedroom house, 20 square house, heating, cooling - all the fruit, built for around $185,000 or about $9,000 a square.

The next quote $218,000 and the next $200,000 (with a note saying this is how much my quote is, but I am too busy to build your house!!) Get the picture.

So we sit down and have a confab about what we do.

First decision is to remove the kitchen and the ensuite from the quotes. We think the builders are worried about blowouts on these sort of items so they are building in higher margins on the kitchen and the ensuite. We realise we still need to get them done, but we can probably get a more competitive price direct from installers for those components. It will also give me time to argue my case with SWMBO for me doing them myself!!

Second decision is we call those builders that are still interested and ask them not to include the kitchen, ensuite, wiring or plumbing in their quotes. We have a sparkie who is helping me rewire our existing house, and plumber who is a friend of the family. We are now reduced to 4 usable quotes. (Only 1 has come in so far)

Third decision, is based on a meeting with our mortgage broker. He suggested that whilst we could get around $200,000 the repayments are going to be pretty high and we needed to consider our lifestyle choices :(
He suggests we try a different bank whom he is confident will come to the party for a much reduced loan to an owner builder. It is entirely understandable why banks are gun shy, about lending large sums to owner builders. I would hate to have to go back to the bank and say that money was great but now we need to put the walls up!!

So we decide to bite the bullet and become owner builders. Given that we already have access to a plumber and sparkie (and I can do the plastering, painting, tiling and floor sanding), we now need to find a brickie and a carpenter who can guide us through the balance of the process. We are confident that we can knock prices down on most of the materials, with my good looks and swmbo's negotiation skills (or is that the other way around). With us becoming owner builders it also brings back into the game, some of the subbies I know locally who are more than proficient.

We are now enrolling in a one-day Owner Builder course (a state government requirement), and I am about to advise the council that we have altered the process. I also need (and I'm sort of dreading this one - might cost me a six pack) to contact the 4 remaining builders and talk to them about where we are going and if they are still interested in providing quotes, for albiet much reduced work loads.

To be continued...........

[namtrak]

This bit didn't start off as part of the addition but it has sort of worked it's way in.

Originally we were going to leave our electricity where it is coming into the house on the North side (to the right in the piccies), however the box is very old and our sparkie has suggested we renew it. He also originally suggested we move the box to wall on the new addition (the South side) because Country Energy (the local authority) will require us to move the incoming wire as it currently crosses the neighbours property (this is a big no no). And whilst they are happy with the status quo, Country Energy has said that they will require us to move it as part of any renovations.

So everything was going along swimmingly until the sparkie realised that the distance between the boundary and the wall on the new bit was only 600mm. Which means it would be illegal to place a box there. Given that the door on the box has a 600mm swing and that should something explode there, a person has nowhere to back away to!! Therefore we are now replacing the switch box in it's existing position, but to sidestep the power over the neighbour we are putting up a 3 metre high pole (+1200 into the ground!) at the front of our house and running the power underground to the switch box. This means once I finish typing this and a little plastering I have I will be back into hand trenching a 600mm deep trench from the house to the pole (about 4m). I am hand trenching cause it's not that far and also I am very near our water mains and Telstra cable (gas mains is on the other side of the house thankfully)

Between the cost of the pole, new switch box, sparkies time, Country Energy fee and bits and pieces, this costs around $1400

To be continued............

[ozwinner]

Oviously way too much time on your hands.

You should be out ther doing the work yourself.

Al :confused:

[namtrak]

Procrastination

[ozwinner]

As one very obnoxious Oz says, COME ON!!!!


Al :D

[gsouth]

An interesting read - having gone hrough the exact same process a couple of years ago it brought back many memories.

A couple of points - I totally agree with the "go with the draftsman" approach. we found a lot of builders we spoke to won't do work designed by architects. "They don't think about how the thing is going to be built" - now I know this is a generalisation, however I have 2 friends who all had extensions designed by architects and then went and got quotes, and the cost had blown out - went back to see a draftsman and got what they wanted pretty quickly.

Second, the costings look about right - we were advised to allow around $2500/sqm for extensions/renovations and about $1000-1500/sqm for new buildings.
Builders quoting for renovations build in a LOT of slack... you know what it's like, you pull th egyprock off a wall only to find problemX which couldn't be seen before..... so you pay dearly for that fixed price quote.

Another avenue is to go with a time and materials quote, but you need to manage the builder then to ensure no cost overrun.......

[namtrak]

So now that we have received our fixed quotes from builders and believe that the prices seem very high, we have gone back to the banks whom have now agreed to lend a lesser amount for us to become owner builders.

Thankfully my SWMBO has agreed to do the day long course at TAFE which is required by the Dept of Fair Trading (I could think of nothing worse)

My first step has been to create a spreadsheet of all expenditure. I broke the spreadsheet into 4 components.

Building Materials: iron, bricks, cement etc

Add-in Materials: windows, doors, taps etc

Labour: Sparkie, Plumber, Subbies etc

Sundries: Insurance, Fees

I then broke each item down into it's base unit (kg, litre, sqm, lineal metre etc) and it price per unit (I tried to overestimate a little here) and finally I calculated how much I would need for each item.

I have included a copy of these estimates as PDF documents - feel free to provide comment. Also take note that between today and when we actually finish building I reckon these estimates will change quite a bit. If I remember I will post a copy of the actual expenditure at the end of the process (June 2020 - when the Apes will rule the Planet. Mental Note: build tire swing in lounge room to accommodate future leaders)

This has given me a place to start working with.

I have now gone to 5 building supply companies (Bunnings, Dahlsens, Home Hardware, Timber-it, Roofing Centre), plus numerous door, cabinet, window suppliers with a copy of my job list (less the costings) and a copy of the plans.(Although I didnt need to get my own copies as each of the suppliers offered to make copies - save enough for a cuppa and scone here). Most have said it will take about a week for them to come back with their quotes. They have also indicated that there is roughly a 3 to 6 week wait on materials coming in.

I am also getting quotes from companies further afield, in particular Fowles in Melbourne. And also for individual items such as glass bricks, windows and doors etc. I am largely doing this to cross check the quotes I get, and I would probably only get the materials from further afield if there is a substantial cost saving.

Out biggest single expense will be labour for the subbies. I have 2 mates who have put their hand up and are very competent. They have offered to do the job at $25 per hour. So I calculated the labour charge at $75 per hour for 500 hours (12 weeks).

A side effect of the cost process, has been, that I can now give SWMBO a distinct budget for each of the Add-in items and she can pick them up as she sees things that she likes. Rather than draggin me around to check out taps, the sit-a-bility of a dunny, tiles, ad nauseum.... For example, she has a budget of $90 for a tap, $500 for a basin, etc

We have also been led to believe that we will only need to take out Home Warranty Insurance if we plan to sell the house in under 6 years. Depending on the cost of the insurance we may make that commitment and forgo the added expenditure.

I guess it is easy to say now, but in hindsight, we should have done this costing exercise before we even went to the builders. It would have given us a much greater understanding of the quotes we were getting.

Cost estimates:

Building Materials: $35,380
Add-ins: $21,475
Labour: $53,000
Sundries: $4,500
Failsafe 20%: $22,871

Total: $137,226

The cheapest quote we have so far from a builder is $218,000

Aside from time, this process has cost us about $20 so far. Petrol and photocopying.

To be continued............procrastination

NB for those that may be interested the Kitchen Cabinets in the add-in items who as $300 they should be $3000 (so add another $2700 plus 20% onto the total)

[silentC]

Received our Owner Builder course in the mail last night. Cost $95. Study at home and complete a 4 page 'exam' (half is multiple choice). It's approved by Fair Trading, which is all I care about.

Going through similar process at the moment myself, only for an entire house. We're going with a kit home (2 actually), which is not an option for you, but will save us a heap. We are building a 39 square house and it will cost about $160,000.

[namtrak]

Yeh, probably the way to go if it was a new home $4,000 a square for a kit home as opposed to about $9,000 a square for a package. And 39 squares is pretty big!!! Our house when we're finished will be about 18 squares - your gonna need a scooter to get around!

[silentC]

Actually a lot of it is veranda. It's probably more like 28 squares living area. But the verandah goes all the way around, so a scooter could be fun ;)

[namtrak]

I've now got together a works program, which comes in handy for a couple of reasons. It helps me firm up my budgets for labour costs. It also will guide me in my ordering process for materials, particularly given that some of the suppliers need upto 6 weeks lead. However most importantly it will help me decide where to lay stuff out in the backyard, as we only have limited space I dont want to be tripping over bits and pieces.

So therefore, within reason, I want to keep the stuff I am going to be using earliest closest to the job. I guess ideally the suppliers will deliver on the morning I need it, but I'll have to see how that goes.

Schedule Timeframe(days) Materials
Approvals 10
Site Levelling 1
Excavation 1
Sewerage 2
Footings 5 Reo/Concrete
Brickwork 3 Bricks
Stumps 3 Concrete Stumps
Termite Treatment 1
Bearers 2 Hardwood
Floor Joists 3 Hardwood
Framing 5 Pine
Trusses 5 Trusses
Roofing 5 Iron
Windows 3 Windows
Cladding 2 Harditex
Doors 2 Doors
Flooring 2 Cypress
Decking 3 Merbau
Plumbing 4 Taps, sinks etc
Wiring 4 Lights and fittings
Plaster 5 Gyprock
Tiling 2 Tiles
Kitchen 2 Cabinets
Ensuite 2 Basin, Toilet, Shower
Skirtings, Built-ins 5 Skirtings etc
Render 5 Render
TOTAL 87


That amounts to 17 weeks work or about 5 months, given that some of it overlays and some of it is contigent on prior work I reckon 5 months is pretty reasonable :(

Cheers

[capedcrusader]

Received our Owner Builder course in the mail last night. Cost $95.
schitt - mine cost $260 - but they included a 600 page "book" about construction though.

[seriph1]

more more more ..... having just returned to Australia, (malaysia and Singapore on business) I am loving this documentation of the process ..... and FWIW, I am VERY happy you didnt demo your existing home - I think it is a great base to work from

Best wishes

[boban]

As far as material costings are concerned- go to www.tradeconnect.com.au. This site has material costs which are pretty competitive for owner builders. Even if they do not supply you, all the prices are listed and you can use them to get a good idea of what you should be paying.

Subbies however can be a lot tougher as far a price is concerned. Like your builders, it really is a matter of how busy they are. Remember though, if you dont know the guy (and even if you do) go the the Dept of Fair Trading site and check their history.

Nowadays, even with people you know, get it in writing. It's not only a legal requirement but it protects all parties involved. I could tell you a number of stories about former friends who went to court because they trusted one another to do the right thing.

Good luck with the project. If you need any advice, whether on process or price, then feel free to ask.

Youve impired me, I'm building a shed 21x12m and attached office 9x12. I think I will post the progress on the forum.

[boban]

It looks like they are really putting the owner builders through some hoops now. When I built my first house, I think I paid $240 which included the licence and insurance.

But in my opinion, most owner builders do a good job albeit a lot slower than most builders. I guess they have got the time and patience.

[namtrak]

As far as material costings are concerned- go to www.tradeconnect.com.au. This site has material costs which are pretty competitive for owner builders................


TradeConnect is a great site, I had forgotten all about it. I use it when I'm doing landscaping jobs to give me a feel for prices, but more often than not I can get a better deal locally.


...........though, if you dont know the guy (and even if you do) go the the Dept of Fair Trading site and check their history........

The funny thing with the OFT is that I'm not sure that actually know where owner builders fit in the picture. I went into the local office here and asked what licence my two 'labourers' will need and she was really ambiguous saying they need a licence regardless, and I was arguing asking why would I need licenced builders - effectively, to work with us as labourers. In the end she said to ring the licence number and talk to someone there. I rang them and the lady was definitely unambiguous, she said (and I asked her 3 times!!) that (assuming we are correctly insured) the only licenced trades we as owner builders need are the plumber and the sparky. She said we could use family members, friends, passerbys as labourers as long as we were insured and they didnt do any of the plumbing/sparky work. This also goes hand in hand with the 4 council inspections!!

As part of our pre-planning processes we have broken the project down into a schedule. We are now about to sit down with the labourers and talk to them about which components are their responsibility and which are ours.

I have followed their last 6 or 7 jobs and we are pretty confident with their work. They work together well as a team (one is meticulous and one is fast). However we will still enter into a written agreement about responsibilities.


...........Good luck with the project. If you need any advice, whether on process or price, then feel free to ask............

As long as it is free to ask expect me to be asking a few :D



..........Youve impired me, I'm building a shed 21x12m and attached office 9x12. I think I will post the progress on the forum............

Glad to be an inspiration. And this would be great, because the shed will be our next project (10m by 4.5m) - as long as I can convince SWMBO that it is a priority :D

Cheers

[boban]

As far as the licensing is concerned, what you have said is correct. What I mean though was if you have someone like a tiler, then they need a license to work as a tiler and so forth. You will be surprised how many unlicensed persons are out there calling themselves tradesmen. If they dont have it in their wallet ready to show you then watch out, it could be trouble. Be upfront and ask for it.

As far as the advice is concerned, it is free. You can call me on my mobile, I don't mind that either. I'm happy to help anyone who want's to help themselves. I learnt what I know by being on site, reading and most of all asking questions about matters I don't know about.

I will keep tabs on your progress with some interest.

[seriph1]

boban if your measurements are correct...........................




I want your shed


:D:D:D:D:D:D

[kiwigeo]

schitt - mine cost $260 - but they included a 600 page "book" about construction though.

Only 600 pages? It must be the condensed version :)

[boban]

[QUOTE=seriph1]boban if your measurements are correct...........................


I've wanted this for the last 15 years. You don't know how excited I am about building it. For me it's my dream come true.

I will post the plans and pictrures tonight some time as a new thread. Hope you guys have some ideas about setout and so forth.

[namtrak]

For those that are interested I am busily typing my updates on our renos. The short story is - no work on the extensions yet!! However I have been beavering away on the existing house. I have attached some pics of the all but finished hallway. And I also have some feedback on the NECO downlights.

I will be providing more thorough updates on re-wiring, heating, finances and the strenuous state of our marriage!!!

[namtrak]

As you may have gathered we had been going along swimmingly until we hit our financial hurdle.

We had done a lot of work to calculate the cost of all our additions to be around $137,000. This coupled with refinancing our existing loan meant we need a total loan of $240,000 to get everything done we need done, this is if we are owner builders and use subbies to do the big works. If we go with a licensed builder from start to finish we would need $290,000.

The CBA has advised us that they will lend us $210,000 in total if we go as owner builders, however we have to use licensed builders as our subcontractors and we have to sign a contract agreeing to sell our other house in Queensland. Sort of defeats the purpose. The have also said they will lend us $290,000 if we use licensed builders full stop. The NAB has offered $240,000, for us as owner builders with no requirements for licenced builders as subbies or for us to sell our house up North.

Before we jumped at the NAB we had about 8 weeks of mulling over our options. Consequently we have changed our plans. We are going for a smaller loan from the CBA of $180,000 to consolidate our debts, provide a new kitchen and ensuite, update the house up North plus update the car. We will then sell the house up North clear our debts and have about $40,000 in the bank to commence our renos, which less the kitchen and ensuite should come in at around $100,000. This will allow us to live in a 4 bedroom house with ensuite and next to no mortgage by the time we are forty. I guess we have something to thank the CBA for!!

Sorry for the convulated update but it gets you upto speed.

[namtrak]

One of the first jobs we have had done is get the house rewired. We had a sparky and his offsider here for about a week and I helped them as much as I could. They worked while I was redoing the hallway because this gave them easy access into the roof.

Rewiring meant, aside from rewiring, new power points, new light switches, new light fittings and a new power box plus new feed from the power pole outside. The total cost was about $4900, which was about $2000 over budget but we went the hole hog and are pretty happy with the finished product.

The only caveat, and this refers to some earlier discussions regarding NECO flouro downlights is that, and this is unequivocal, the fluoro downlights are not bright enought to light high traffic areas. End of story!! There was some discussion regarding their brightness and effectiveness and we ran with them based on that discussion, however they dont cut it. We had 7 of them in 12 sqm area in our kitchen and it did not provide enough light to work by. We replaced two of them with halogens and are now happy with the setup. My advice would be, use them in hallways and corners, builtins etc, but if you are going to rely on them for working light then they need to be supplemented with halogens. Dont get me wrong we are happy with the NECO lights, but just keep in mind that they dont provide enough working light.

[namtrak]

Once we removed the wall between the kitchen and hallway our next priority was to refurbish the kitchen. I have provided some pics showing the old kitchen once the wall was removed and then stages through the fitout to the benchtops going in. The kitchen wont be completed until the additions are done as we are building a servery above the sink, and as such we wont be tiling or finishing off until the servery is completed. But you'll get the idea. From the pics there is also an appliance cupboard and kitchen island which should go in over the next few days.

We got quotes from a variety of sources. From 4 chippies for a complete kitchen (quotes ranged from just under $7,000 to around $13,000), to 2 flatpack kitchen mobs (quotes from $4,000 to $7000) and for me to do it totally myself ($4,000). Keep in mind for these quotes that I am supplying and installing the benchtops my self.

We ended up going with a young chippie, who worked solo. His quote was just under $7,000. We didn't pick him because he was the cheapest (he wasn't) more because I could work in with him and help as we go. I also felt that getting a chippie took away the dangers of me measuring once and cutting three times regularly!!

The kitchen includes a slide out pantry which we are very happy with. The kitchen install will take three days, the plumbing took two days (and included moving the gas meter and continuous hot water system) and the wiring took one day. The preparation of the benches took me about 8 weeks, more or less.

For the benches I used Vicitorian Ash (which I suspect is a mix of timbers) which I laminated with a biscuit jointer and have so far coated 4 times with a floor polyutherane. I will probably do another 3 coats. I also coated under the benches and all cut edges. I edged the benches with 40mm by 30mm strips of Merbau.

The total cost of the kitchen, including appliances, plumbing and wiring is $11,400. Which I think isnt too bad, we could have saved about $2,000 if I had done the carcasses and doors myself, but given my inability to measure properly would have been a risk (and too stressful)

[namtrak]

Heres another pic of the benchtops.

[seriph1]

hi - good going! Did you use benchtop joiners for the corner? Also, what kind of knobs/handles are you going to use?

have fun!

[namtrak]

What are these bench top joiners you speak of?

The handles will be picked by SWMBO when she returns from O/S, too much responsibility in an important detail like handles!!

[namtrak]

This is the kitchen island. The carcase is in the same 2-pac as the rest of the kitchen and is set on castors. Skirting runs around 3 edges of the island and therefore allows me to set the brakes on the castors when needed.

The benchtop is made from the same timber as the main benchtops, but there was such a variation in colour (from the darker golden one to the lighter pink ones) that I decided to create the offset pattern.

Not in the photo, but also now completed is the appliance cupboard - sliding door. Yet to be completed are the servery which goes above the sink, the tile splashback and the bulkheads above the wall cupboards.

[namtrak]

Also, we had the floor in the kitchen done. Normally I would do it, but it seemed easier to get someone in whilst we were away for a few weeks. It came up really well - a high gloss finish.

You can see in the photo, the mix of flooring. From the new cypress boards where the fireplace was, to the 7 inch wide board I used where the wall was, the 4 inch boards from the old lounge and the 6 inch boards in the old kitchen.

You can also see the black car bog fill I used to fill up the cracks (I think it becomes a feature :rolleyes: ) and the water stain look at the back of the photo. The water stains dominate the original flooring in the old kitchen. We could have ripped up the floor boards right through the kitchen and lounge but we reckon this mix and match set-up actually adds some character to the place.

The floor sanding and finishing cost $1300 for 40 sqm or about $35 per sqm. If I had done it it would cost around $800. But we didn't have to go through the hassle of vacating the house for 4 or 5 days, and I didnt get my nose full of gunk!!

[namtrak]

A quick update, we have finally sold our house up North and are gearing up for the renos from around September. It's only been 15 months and not a stone turned in anger, although about 70% of the inside of the house is looking okay :rolleyes:

Cheers

[PuppyPaw]

I like the center island you made. What are them red marks on the kick board tho?

[namtrak]

.... What are them red marks on the kick board tho?

The red marks are the printing on the protective plastic, which will probably stay there for the life of the kickboards :D :D

Cheers

[namtrak]

Having sold our house up North, we are now ready to get a move along.

Previously we got the Development Consent from the council (with a 2 year sunset clause - expires in 3 months), now we need the Construction Certificate. To get that we need a Structural Engineer to certify our plans. And it seems that whilst this was the practice years ago, Engineers will no longer certify other peoples plans. So for $440 the Engineer will provide us with certified drawings of the sub-floor and roofing pitch/spans. This isn't a bad thing, for whilst I was happy to build off the existing drawings, these drawings will be a lot more specific.

We have altered our subfloor from concrete stumps and hardwood to straight steel (Duragal). We are also using Blueboard for the exterior walls (I am investigating Hebel sheets as a better insulation). The walls will be rendered/painted with one of the paint on Acrylic renders now on the market. The frames are all now to be the low grade treated pine and the roof is going to be pitched rather than trusses. Whilst trusses are inifinitely simpler and cheaper, a pitched roof will give me space in the roof for storage.

We also need to get a soil-test done, by the end of the week ($352) and once the sub-floor is in a surveyor will provide us with a report to show that the sub-floor is 300mm above the 100 year flood level.

I now also have a new costing sheet, which I have attached - any feedback is much appreciated.

I have withdrawn the labour component for the time being and have costed the materials for the job at $79,225 which includes a 25% fail safe. It seems low to me, but I have quotes for around 90% of the materials and have loaded each of the quotes anyway.

[masterblaster]

That'd be great if you did - when d'ya start the shed anyway ?
Just about everything l'm doing around my place involves a shed /sheds or somem like a shed so l'd love to see the work .

Cheers
MB




As far as material costings are concerned- go to www.tradeconnect.com.au (http://www.tradeconnect.com.au). This site has material costs which are pretty competitive for owner builders. Even if they do not supply you, all the prices are listed and you can use them to get a good idea of what you should be paying.

Subbies however can be a lot tougher as far a price is concerned. Like your builders, it really is a matter of how busy they are. Remember though, if you dont know the guy (and even if you do) go the the Dept of Fair Trading site and check their history.

Nowadays, even with people you know, get it in writing. It's not only a legal requirement but it protects all parties involved. I could tell you a number of stories about former friends who went to court because they trusted one another to do the right thing.

Good luck with the project. If you need any advice, whether on process or price, then feel free to ask.

Youve impired me, I'm building a shed 21x12m and attached office 9x12. I think I will post the progress on the forum.

[masterblaster]

Hey Namtrak.
Nothing to do with reno's but can you say why you sold the house in QLD and moved down to Albury is it ?
Just curious , ended up doing the same thing ourselves !
The other thing was what are your thoughts on spending so much on reno's , are you guys just thinking we want this and that is that type of thing , didn't want buy land and build instead for some reason or ?
The reason l ask is that's some serious reno mooler , do you add that to the house's price seeing what you get first or just have the leeway so who cares type of thing , as in bought the house 20 yrs ago for 35,000 or something ?
Tossing up about my own place that's all and just what to spend into it because l don't like digging into the equity too much but rather spend as little as poss' and build onto the equity's my thinking .

Cheers
MB

[namtrak]

Hey Namtrak.
Nothing to do with reno's but can you say why you sold the house in QLD and moved down to Albury is it ?

We moved to Albury, on a small part for work, but largely for family. A large part of SWMBO's family lives in and around Albury and Tallangatta, and once we had kids the choice was to get them near cousins etc.

When we first moved we tried to sell the house, but had no luck at all - so we rented it out. Which was great for the tax benefits and income, however whilst the tenants were all fine the house degrades without the attention of an owner. We finally decided to sell it when the cost of maintaining the house up North became too much and the cost of the potential bank loans was going to be too high.



The other thing was what are your thoughts on spending so much on reno's , are you guys just thinking we want this and that is that type of thing , didn't want buy land and build instead for some reason or ?

Well, because when we first got here we were very cash strapped - we had the mortgage up North, the only place we could buy was a small, double brick house near town for $88,000. However like most people, we benefitted from the increase in property values through the early 2000's. As such, rather than sell up and buy another house further from the centre of town we felt it wiser to improve the house we were in. Besides we like the neighbourhood.

The cost of the renos (not including labour) is around $900 per sqm or $7000 per square. Not including the labour component, which will add another 30-40%. This is not an unreasonable price, especially given the size of the addition is fairly large.



The reason l ask is that's some serious reno mooler , do you add that to the house's price seeing what you get first or just have the leeway so who cares type of thing , as in bought the house 20 yrs ago for 35,000 or something ?

We definitely consider the cost of the addition to the original cost as part of the whole picture. All things being equal, once the reno is complete we will have spent $88,000 plus about $25,000 plus say $110,000 ($223,000) on the house to end up with a 4 bedroom house, with ducted heating and cooling, ensuite and new kitchen. Our end mortgage will be around $100,000. And the property will be worth between $350,000 and $400,000. All this in a double brick house in a quiet street, 3 blocks from the main street of Albury.

If we were to sell up now, and buy a new house in the 'burbs, we believe we would have to service a mortgage closer to $200,000 to $250,000. Which isn't really progress as far as we are concerned. I think, for us progress would be a decent house on a few acres with no mortgage - which will probably be our next step - when the time is right.



Tossing up about my own place that's all and just what to spend into it because l don't like digging into the equity too much but rather spend as little as poss' and build onto the equity's my thinking .


Well that's the $64,000 question isn't it!!! How to increase your property's equity without increasing your debt. There's a myriad of TV shows, magazines, books, hardware stores etc making millions and millions of dollars whilst people try to answer that question. At this point I should point that what we are doing works for us, and may not be relevant to the next person. One thing we did do, which gave us some clarity was to write out every option we had and the fiscal ramifications of each option and then we progressed from there. Figuring out the Dollars was easy, it's lifestyle choices that complicate things.

Cheers

[masterblaster]

Thanks for that l hope you didn't take it as knocking , l'm always wondering how people manage high reno's .
Must say l didn't realise you could pick up some thing that cheap in a place like Albury central l don't think you'll go far wrong with that one , comming along very nicely too by the way .

Yeah talk about it , don't kids change things , l know all about those lifestyle choices we moved back down for al the same reasons. Even though they won't wanna know their cousins or inlaws in a few yrs anyway.
But , we did pick up one shocker of a property , that few ac's you guys want one day .
Mind you anything being done right now has to be through brawn power or not at all still it's amazing how far that goes but hopefully we'll be able to put a few bucks into it in a yr or two.
Cheers
MB




We moved to Albury, on a small part for work, but largely for family. A large part of SWMBO's family lives in and around Albury and Tallangatta, and once we had kids the choice was to get them near cousins etc.

When we first moved we tried to sell the house, but had no luck at all - so we rented it out. Which was great for the tax benefits and income, however whilst the tenants were all fine the house degrades without the attention of an owner. We finally decided to sell it when the cost of maintaining the house up North became too much and the cost of the potential bank loans was going to be too high.



Well, because when we first got here we were very cash strapped - we had the mortgage up North, the only place we could buy was a small, double brick house near town for $88,000. However like most people, we benefitted from the increase in property values through the early 2000's. As such, rather than sell up and buy another house further from the centre of town we felt it wiser to improve the house we were in. Besides we like the neighbourhood.

The cost of the renos (not including labour) is around $900 per sqm or $7000 per square. Not including the labour component, which will add another 30-40%. This is not an unreasonable price, especially given the size of the addition is fairly large.



We definitely consider the cost of the addition to the original cost as part of the whole picture. All things being equal, once the reno is complete we will have spent $88,000 plus about $25,000 plus say $110,000 ($223,000) on the house to end up with a 4 bedroom house, with ducted heating and cooling, ensuite and new kitchen. Our end mortgage will be around $100,000. And the property will be worth between $350,000 and $400,000. All this in a double brick house in a quiet street, 3 blocks from the main street of Albury.

If we were to sell up now, and buy a new house in the 'burbs, we believe we would have to service a mortgage closer to $200,000 to $250,000. Which isn't really progress as far as we are concerned. I think, for us progress would be a decent house on a few acres with no mortgage - which will probably be our next step - when the time is right.



Well that's the $64,000 question isn't it!!! How to increase your property's equity without increasing your debt. There's a myriad of TV shows, magazines, books, hardware stores etc making millions and millions of dollars whilst people try to answer that question. At this point I should point that what we are doing works for us, and may not be relevant to the next person. One thing we did do, which gave us some clarity was to write out every option we had and the fiscal ramifications of each option and then we progressed from there. Figuring out the Dollars was easy, it's lifestyle choices that complicate things.

Cheers

[namtrak]

Only 19 months after I started this thread and we are on the way.

We got the construction certificate from the Council with no dramas, and the soil test found soil, which was a good thing.

I have been busily buying up steel for the subfloor, flooring (thanks Studley), wallframing (T2 treated), trusses (not pitched as I was going to originally), windows and doors, I already have plasterboard for the internal linings, plus Hebel Powerpanel for the external walls, and roofing iron. At this stage, given the budget I prepared we are around $9000 under budget, for which I am confident SWMBO will find other areas to compensate. (we spent around $3,000 more than I budgetted for on the windows and doors - but they are schmicko).

The excavator was here yesterday, and he has made a god almighty mess of the yard! 58 holes and about 20 metres of trenches. I need to now go around and clean the crap out of each of the holes and get the sewer laid, along with the all important water and power for the shed.

In the pics you can see the big pile of dirt :eek: in the back corner. We are going to use that to create a raised garden bed about 7m by 3m square. We wont be able to do that until the trenches are in and the framing timber is moved.

The plumber will be here today to check the trenches for the sewer and water, and the sparky is going to take some measurements for the conduit. We are sticking a sub-panel in the shed.

I will ring the council, once I have cleaned out the holes to have the inspector come around.

I also got the workers comp insurance today $175.

Lastly I threw in a pic of the new apprentice, the old one (avatar) is too smart to follow me around all day.

To be cont......

[woodsprite]

What a great progress story! Our extension earlier this year was a joy, despite the few frustrations we had. Basically a 10 metre by 6 metre extension, with decked vernadahs 1.8 wide down the two long side, converting a bedroon into a new bathroom and hallway, redecking and reroofing an exisitng verandah that was about 10 metres by 3 metres, and recladding a part of the old house to match the new. Also got them to gut and straighten the walls on another bedroom, plus a few other minor bits and pieces.
Quote was $82,000 for the extension, plus $9,00o to reclad, reroof and redeck the old verandah. Not bad! Then we had to add vanity, fittings, extra electircal work (point and lights not in the quote) carpet, paint, bits and pieces (filler, tools, etc).
Just about to paint the last old bedroom that the builders cleaned up - we stripped the old internal cladding and I have to do all the fitting out. All up cost for a large extensiona and renovation will come to $120,00 neat - we have got exactly what we want, saved a few quid by doing bits and pieces ourselves.

When we started planning the extension, about 2 years ago, we had an idea of what we wanted, used an architect, forked out $1500 for plans that were useless (he charged $500.00 a re-draw, and had no idea of converting our ideas into plans that even looked like what we wanted) and then went to the builder. Within about 3 weeks he had his draughtsman draw up the plans exactly as we wanted, and gave us a heap of really useful and practical advise about the functionality of our ideas - and all this was part of his price!

Look forward to hearing your progress, and I agree that maybe a new forum for renovations would be a great idea!
Jeff

[silentC]

Only 19 months after I started this thread and we are one the way.
The house I now live in didn't exist when you started this thread ;)

:D

[namtrak]

The house I now live in didn't exist when you started this thread ;)

:D

Yes, and how is the cardboard box....... :D

Tell me about it, I've watched dozens of houses go up in the same time. It's been driving me spare - not to worry, bum up for the next few months should see us get somewhere.

Cheers

[Border boy]

Hi Namtrak
I'd say dozens of houses, a coupla bridges & an internal freeway bypass (almost) in our fair city.
I've been following this thread since this time last year when we embarked on our kitchen & bathroom reno. Thanks to these forums, which were gone thru with a fine toothed comb, we finished both projects a month ago. Both worked out great. SWMBO is as happy as. Now we are embarking on our next project - landscaping, garden, front fence & 9 x 12m shed in the back yard.
As Big Kev used to say.......
I wish you the best on your adventures

[namtrak]

Now we are really getting somewhere. I have the subfloor down and we are working on the frames at the moment, with plans for the roof to go on next Wednesday.

With the subfloor, I got in an excavator to dig 58 holes 450 by 600 deep. I had to dig have a dozen by hand, and I also had to clean every one out by hand as well. Meaning there is no loose soil left in the bottom of the hole.

I then fixed the stumps to the bearers, with 'Homeguard' a similar product to Termimesh, in between the bearers and the stumps. Then using carjacks I levelled the bearers off before filling the holes with concrete - all by hand. I would have used a mini-crete truck, but I wanted to be able to spend time making sure each bearer was level and square, and I just figured that doing it by hand I wouldn't go too far wrong.

I am now working on fixing timber battens to the inside of the steel joists, this is to fix the timber floor to. I was hoping I could fix straight to the steel, but it seems using the secret nail profile, means that the nails would jsut skew off the top of the joists.

You can also see the first of the frames ready to go up.

POSTSCRIPT: These pictures are lost - oops

[namtrak]

The bearers are set at around 1.3m and the joists are 450 centres, I am still researching some decking fixings. I managed to get some cleats which nail into the side of the joist and then fix to the side of the decking board, however they are too weak to fix into the hardwood.

[coastie]

A tradesman's fright,a handymans delight:D

[old_picker]

Received our Owner Builder course in the mail last night. Cost $95. Study at home and complete a 4 page 'exam' (half is multiple choice). It's approved by Fair Trading, which is all I care about.

Going through similar process at the moment myself, only for an entire house. We're going with a kit home (2 actually), which is not an option for you, but will save us a heap. We are building a 39 square house and it will cost about $160,000.

mmm I did an owner builders course in 1983. By 1984 I had finished the course and the house as well. The house came as part of the course and total cost was $42K. The exam was set by the shire building inspector at house/course completion. Got a pass on the second go.

I always found that cutting wood and laying bricks built it quicker than talking and writing.

[namtrak]

And now we've got up a real head of steam.

The frames went up over two days. And I've even started laying some of Studleys flooring. The trusses are set for next Wednesday and roofing on Thursday.

Had a few 14 hour days in a row now - may take some time off in April, if I'm lucky.

[namtrak]

Trusses have gone up. All was well, except for a couple of frames (not trusses but sort of middle supports) which were about 200mm lower than they should have been. Threw us out of wack for an hour or so.

There are still a few fittings to go such as, triple grips and cyclone ties.

For the owner builder, unless you've had experience putting up trusses then I would seriously consider having someone with experience with you. This has been the most complex piece so far (largely because of the extra valleys and hips), and I was grateful for the services of a builder for the day.

A small prize (well maybe not) but kudos to anyone who can spot the 300mm error. Not the one I referred to earlier but another one.

Cheers

And I might add I am the only person in South Eastern Australia currently praying for no rain :)

[John99]

Well Namtak
Its good to see the progress you are making I started my extension about nov 2004 about the time I found these forums and I have been watching your progress with interest

As i remember getting the trusses up, was quiet a hard job for me and the misses and kids but we managed to get them up on top.


keep up the good work

cheers ;)

[namtrak]

The roof is all but on, and I guess there are some lessons here for the OB punter. At the end of the day, it will still work out cheaper than getting in a specialised roofing team, but I think some of the dramas may have been avoided.

First things first, I had two sets of blokes working. One removing the old iron, fascia, gutters etc and starting to replace the new iron. And the other set, (who were roofing plumbers who were mainly plumbers and did the roofing as an afterthought) who started working on the fascia and gutters. At the end of the first day we had replaced 70 percent of the fascias and gutters and and 25 percent of the iron.

The issues at this stage were matching in the height of the of the new gutters and fascia with the existing. Took some time because of the cantilevered trusses which were set to match, but seemed out by about 50mm.

The following day we started to continue, when around 11am we realised the big problem. Remember we had been working in very thick smoke from the North East fires, but around 11am the smoke had cleared and then we realised we had two different coloured roofs!!

A quick call to the supplier confirmed that we had ordered the correct colours, and indeed the correct fascia, gutter, roofing screws and valleys were correct, however the roofing iron was BLUE not GREY. It was very hard to pick up, as the photo from the front shows, but once the light was okay it stood out like dogs balls. I will try and get another pic.

The supplier was around in a shot, and we had the new iron rolled the following morning and delivered by 7:30am. We decided to plow on and leave the odd coloured bit until the new year.

However, problems continued!! As we finished, we were going to re-use the old gutter to patch the balance of the gutters and the old ridge capping - when we figured out that both were a different profile (ever so slightly, but enough) It turns out the mob we bought the existing roof off roll their own iron with their own profiles. I guess at qualified roofer, or proper builder may have figured that stuff out earlier, but thems the breaks. Hopefully I can figure out a deal with the supplier as I will be out of pocket by about $1500 once the roof is finished. I will aim for them to replace the bit that we have left and also leave the roofing iron (wrong colour) which we haven't used yet. That would be nice for the shed!!

We have started putting in the doors and windows as per the pics.

[journeyman Mick]

Namtrak,
gutters, ridgecap and bargecapping are a real trap as everyone seems to roll their own profile. I've got offcuts from all the major players in my area so I can match them. Maybe at the end of your project you could post a heap of tips/hints in the relevant section titled "traps for the new owner builder" :rolleyes: (hopefully you won't have too many to post)

Mick

[Terry1]

Hello namtrak,It certainly doesn't worry me much at all but seen you asked if anyone could spot anything unusual in one of the pictures.The only thing that I noticed with a quick look was that the pitching beam is about two or three hundred mm back from the birdmouth.Is that what you are referring to?Everything is looking good and I hope it all turns out just the way you expected.You certainly approached the job very professionally (costing,scheduling,etc)and deserve to get a good result as I'm sure you will do.Regards Terry

[namtrak]

.............was that the pitching beam is about two or three hundred mm back from the birdmouth.Is that what you are referring to?........

Right on the money, another thing that took us a couple of hours to figure out. I reckon the estimator for the truss mob mucked it up, as they took the measurements after the sub floor was laid down. Anyway, they gave me some specs on how to strengthen up the trusses with some laminated beams and whatnot - no biggie. Good spot!

[pawnhead]

Ah, Coopers Ale (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=35794). A man with taste.

Good thread namtrak. I just read through it and it would be very informative for prospective owner builders. I'll be following with interest. :2tsup:

I'll be doing a reno on my kitchen shortly and I'm thinking about the same island bench on locking castors. Could you tell me how big they are?

[namtrak]

Ah, Coopers Ale (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=35794). A man with taste.........thinking about the same island bench on locking castors. Could you tell me how big they are?

I even brew it and bottle into the Grolsch flip top bottles, which I believe is the only way to drink a good beer!!

The castors? or the bench?

The bench is 100 by 100, however I mucked up by edging it with Merbau, I should have (and will replace the edging) just done breadboard ends.

The castors are good quality rubber ones, about 50mm diameter. I have skirting on three sides of the island, and the fourth skirting is shorter allowing me to lock in the brakes.

Cheers

[pawnhead]

I even brew it and bottle into the Grolsch flip top bottles, which I believe is the only way to drink a good beer!!Good move. I put a couple of brews down a while ago. It tasted like sh*t, but it got you so I acquired a taste for it :hahaha:. I got sick of all the cleaning and capping though. Brewed by the keg, kept in it's own fridge would be the go I reckon.
The castors? or the bench?

The bench is 100 by 100, however I mucked up by edging it with Merbau, I should have (and will replace the edging) just done breadboard ends.

The castors are good quality rubber ones, about 50mm diameter. I have skirting on three sides of the island, and the fourth skirting is shorter allowing me to lock in the brakes.

CheersThanks for that. I'm just interested in the castors. Yours looks great with the contrasting light and dark grain. I might do the same myself.
I was thinking about how high I'd have to make the bottom shelf for the castors. I saw one in a kitchen being installed on a job I was working on and they were huge (about 100mm diameter) and exposed with no skirting. It had a thick slab of composite stone on top. It was very stable.

My rotten old chipboard/laminex kitchen is falling apart and I want an island bench in the new one I’m building. I want to make it the same dimensions as the original one in this picture (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/Jan08587.jpg), about 700 wide with the bench top at 1200, overhanging 350 on one side for bar stools. I’m thinking of making just a pocket for each wheel with a compartment under the bottom shelf filled with sand for weight and stability so it’s less likely to tip over when leaning on the overhang. I’m also thinking of a removable ‘clip on’ kickboard for one side to access the castor locks on two of the wheels.
I could leave the bench in the middle of the kitchen, or spin it around to make an L shaped bar/ servery to the family room (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/holgerdanske/Jan08588.jpg). In that pic you can see my new deck and bifold doors (http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?p=435423&postcount=435423).

edit: In that first pic, it's supposed to say 'new doors to loungeroom', not lungeroom. I don't do much 'lunging', but I lounge around a lot. :)

[namtrak]

This is a budget update on our extension.

We have the roof on, all but 2 windows installed, flooring down, deck down. Our next step is the external cladding, wiring and plastering.

In summary our budget to get this much done was $50,469 and the actual cost was $52,359.

The breakdown is:

Estimate Actual
Footings $11,055 $7,829
Trusses/Walls $14,600 $15,967
Roofing $6,610 $8,985
Flooring $8,964 $5,429
Doors/Windows $8,200 $9,862
Scaffolding $0 $800
Hire $0 $115
Tools $1040 $3,316
TOTAL $50,469 $52,359

Some notes on this, for those that are interested. I was actually hoping this figure would be closer to $45,000 however there have been some blowouts.

I spent around $1,500 on F17 ash lintels, which I didn't budget for. Likewise I have spent a lot, probably upto $2,000 on connectors, nails, grips, plastic, glues etc that I wasn't really counting on. Plus an extra $2,300 on 'tools', mind you most of that was for a car and some for a cement mixer. And finally we spent an extra $3,300 on a bi-fold door rather than a set of sliding doors. The door looks great, but was a fair bit more than I was hoping to pay.

I will be providing a bigger report on the sliding doors later, as well as the decking (for which I used dek-tie - which was discussed earlier)

Cheers

[namtrak]

The decking was completed a few weeks ago, but I am a bit behind with updates.

The subfloor of the decking was a direct continuation of the main extension subfloor. Duragal flooring system, which was welded rather than the attachment as suggested by Duragal.

The decking used, was Belian (an African hardwood) which was 80mm wide and rates 1 on the Janka scale. The deck size was around 25 sqm, and the timber cost close to $1000 ($2.90 per lm)

I ended up using Dek Ties, as referred to by this thread (http://woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=28108&highlight=deck+invisible). I did try the dek loks, which bang into the side of the boards but they were useless on the hardwood. These dekties, come up a treat, but be warned it was taking me about 20 minutes to do each 4.8m board, as they need to be biscuited, the dek tie inserted, pre-dilled (I was using steel joists) and then the next board marked. Also they are not cheap, including delivery they cost $200 for a box of 500 (40 cents each - about 30 cents over priced I thought) And I needed two boxes!

I have included a photo to show how they work, and as far as I can tell the only company selling them in Australia is the DeckKing from Melbourne.

I also included a set of external, step lights in the two steps for the deck. These look great at night and were well worth including for around $130, they come with a transformer and are definitely a DYI job.

As for the finish I ended up using Floods Spa & Deck, which cost around $190 for 10 litres from Bunnings. This product has received big props from people (http://woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=42860&highlight=spa+deck) on these boards and so far I am happy with it. I ended up putting on 4 coats and will probably put another 4 on when the job is completed. It was simple to put on (although it does stain peripherals easily - such as doors, etc so be careful).

Not including the subfloor the deck cost around $1600 or about $64 per sqm. I am trying to dig up a photo of the completely finished deck, but that may have to wait.

POSTSCRIPT: These pictures are lost as well

[silentC]

You do know that OneSteel doesn't recommend screwing decking to Duragal? Don't know why but it's in the back of the Duragal flooring guide:

"The use of screws to attach timber decking to joists on external decks and verandahs is not recommended."

It also looks like you didn't end cap the joists. Are they internally painted? In any case they recommend fitting an end cap and flashing it with Norton Flashtac to keep out moisture.

We welded all ours too. Much better job than using tek screws but it's a b!tch to weld without distortion.

[namtrak]

I have also finished installing the windows and two of the holes which tie the existing house to the extension.

The windows were from Wunderbar and are aluminium, with a powder coated finish. The glass is called super grey toughened which we think is pretty cool. The glass is essentially a privacy glass, which means we can look out but people cant look in (although at night the shoe is on the other foot - the show is ON folks!!) Essentially, what it means is that whichever side of the window is darkest is the one you can see through (light reflects off the glass making it hard to see through). We love them, and have ordered blinds for the night, but in the mean time the neighbours are getting a free peep show. They really open up the vision and have changed the feel of the place. Another caveat is whilst they are also great sound barriers, they are not a very good insulative product - the heat bears through. This will be the other use of the blinds, although we are considering awnings and trees outside as additional alternatives.

All up we installed 6 of these windows, with screens throughout the house and them plus a 3.7m Noosa bifold door (http://wunderbar.com.au/products/doors.aspx) (which blew our budget) cost just under $10,000.

When installing the windows you need to be careful with the reveals. These are the bits of timber which encase the windows. I used 135 by 19mm reveals on half of the windows and the door, but I used 110 by 19 mm on the three windows at the back of the house. This has ramifications for the outside cladding, which I will explain when I post up some stuff about the Hebel.

The holes I am referring to are the two places where we knocked out large pieces of load bearing walls and replaced them with our lintels. Firstly we took up the load with Acrow props, which are indispensible. Next we set up some drop sheets and tried to minimise the mess as much as possible. Then after some hand wringing we started knocking things out. I used a piece of F17 as the lintel, which sits on some of the remaining brickwork, we have also tied the new frame back into the brickwork with bother expander foam and dynabolts.

I have one more hole to go, then I can start mucking around with the plastering.

I will post some pictures of the windows once I have them, batteries are a bit dodgy on the digi.

[namtrak]

You do know that OneSteel doesn't recommend screwing decking to Duragal?

It also looks like you didn't end cap the joists. Are they internally painted? In any case they recommend fitting an end cap and flashing it with Norton Flashtac to keep out moisture.


Yeh, I actually talked to the steel supplier about that, and he didnt seem that fussed about it - so I ran with him!

And yes I forgot about the end caps, but I will put them on there in particular as that is the place most likely - wont take much to unscrew the facing boards on the step

[silentC]

I actually talked to the steel supplier about that, and he didnt seem that fussed about it
He wouldn't, it's not his house!!

Like I say, don't know why, they don't elaborate. I assumed it has something to do with corrosion prevention but can't work out what. Maybe the mositure follows the screw thread or something, where as a nail is sealed tight all the way around. They're very particular about pointing out waterproofing, tek screws with neoprene washers, flashtac everywhere. I followed the guide to the letter, that way if it fails I've got come back. We sprayed the insides of all the bearers and verandah beams with fish oil then welded steel end caps and welded top caps to the posts. Put end caps and flashing on all open joist ends. Joist tape under the decking. But then I'm only 5km from the ocean. It's borderline here whether we should have used it or not.

[namtrak]

The next job we completed is the Hebel powerpanel (http://www.hebelaustralia.com.au/hebel/view.asp?contenttype=HEBEL-GENERALCONTENT&catalog_name=HEBEL&category_id=Products-Power-Panels&category_name=Products%2DPower+Panels&topItem_name=Products+%26+Systems&sub_item=PowerPanel%3Csup%3ETM%3C%2Fsup%3E).

As per the website:

"One Hebel PowerPanel is equivalent in area to around 72 standard bricks and can be installed in 3 minutes, making it a much quicker installation alternative to bricks or blocks.

A 2700mm long x 600mm wide panel weighs less than 75kg and is easily carried and lifted into position by two people. Panels are screwed to installed tophat sections and edge glued with Hebel Adhesive."

Don't be fooled by this blurb, if these things are 75 kg then I am a hairy coconut. They were friggin heavy and took quite a deal of maneuvering for two of us to put up.

The top hat took a fair bit of laying out, and it you need to have all your windows and doors in first. This was one trap I referred to earlier, because i used smaller reveals then I also had to use small top hats (the standard is 45 mm) I ended up using 28mm cyclone rated ceiling battens. This meant that the Hebel wouldn't sit proud of the window frame around the windows where I used the smaller reveals.

The Hebel cost $3,100 and included screws and adhesive (I bought my own top hat because I had a fair bit spare from the roof). Including labour, the Hebel cost about $4,300 installed which sounds very cheap, however as opposed to brickwork I still need to spend another $5,000 or so on rendering.

I was very cautious with the expansion joints, the installation guides suggest minimum every 6 metres, but I ended up sticking them around every window and door and every 3 metres in the longer sections. Of our whole extension, the Hebel crakcing and going pear shaped is my biggest worry. Every 2nd Joe that drops in has something to say "Termites love it, It cracks really easy, I hear its carcinogenic etc" Allthough I dont know anyone who actually installed it!! Time will tell I suppose.

And for SilentC's benefit who obviously has an eye for it, there is also a minor hiccup which you can spot in one of the photos - any takers?

[namtrak]

He wouldn't, it's not his house!!


Maybe the mositure follows the screw thread or something, where as a nail is sealed tight all the way around.

I know what you mean!!

I was going to use joist tape, but decided to go overkill with the finish, I am hoping that a large portion of the finish washes down over over the screw heads and acts as a sealer to some degree.

[silentC]

Anything to do with a downpipe?

[namtrak]

Anything to do with a downpipe?

Nah, it was the sill under the window. I should have cut them all at an angle to run up under the weather strip on the windows, but for a couple a left a little ledge. I think if these windows were sitting out in weather more, then water would just sit there or worse, run under the strip. Luckily the two windows with the 'protruding sills' are are under cover.

[silentC]

Damn! I thought you'd put the downpipe pop in the wrong spot, that looks like a bit of stormwater pipe sticking out of the ground on the left in the last photo. Trying to be too clever... :)

[namtrak]

Damn! I thought you'd put the downpipe pop in the wrong spot, that looks like a bit of stormwater pipe sticking out of the ground on the left in the last photo. Trying to be too clever... :)

Nice try, but thats the escape vent for the sewerage. I'm not sure what you call it but thats where the crap flows out before it comes back up into the house.

[silentC]

OK, that's the gulley trap. You normally would put a tap over it because it needs to be always charged with water or you get a smell coming up from the sewer.

[namtrak]

Yep thats it, and a tap is on the way.

I wait until I have a few jobs lined up until I get the plumbers back in!

[Candu]

Almost 2 years since you started this thread. I've read the whole thing and it is so inspiring but I'm feeling really tired right about now. Think I'll start small with a new carport.

[AndrewPatrol]

Candu and others
Great to see an update, been wondering what happened to you
not trying to take any shine off your efforts Namtrak, but have a look at this thread for inspiration ( if you havnt already )

Absolutely spectacular - Read the bit about what they do in between time, tired, more like paralysed
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=25158

[namtrak]

Yeh, Jill's stuff is superb. Already has me thinking about our next reno. For this one we have focussed on clean lines and a minimalist approach. We are only having the odd splash of timber throughout the house, to try and highlight it.

[namtrak]

....Maybe at the end of your project you could post a heap of tips/hints in the relevant section......


Done thanks Mick. (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?p=489554#post489554)

[namtrak]

Now three-quarters of the way through the plastering. Putting the sheets up, is relatively straightforward. Although it is at least a two person job. Even with the sheet lifter, I bought for $400, I still need someone to help me lift the bigger sheets onto the lifter.

One of the harder parts of plastering is getting your basecoat right. If you muck this up, it is much harder to sand off than the top coat. Buying all the right tools helps, but if your worried just get someone into do the finish plastering. A professional is quick and neat.

When you put the top coat on, make sure it over coats the base coat by around 50mm. And then when you sand it, you need to feather the edges of it so it creates a smooth interface between boards and doesn't show up when you paint the place.

The pics here show some of the plastering we have done. I have included the before pic of one of the entries into the kitchen.

[namtrak]

In reference to Number 14 in my list of tips for Owner Builders, make sure you read the instructions.

Eventhough I had correctly put plaster sheets before, I should have refreshed my memory.

I've attached pics of two sheets I put up, one the right way and one the wrong way.

Basically you put the glue everywhere throughout the middle of the sheets and are sparing with it towards the edges. And vice versa with the nails/screws. What I have done in the first photo, may down the track lead to the glue popping the nails out.

[namtrak]

I mentioned earlier that I would try and post some pics to show how well the windows work.

We think they're great, but they definitely need blinds at night.

[namtrak]

Things are moving at pace now!!!

Floors were sanded today. And they look a treat.

The timber is Northern Beech via Studley.

I got in a professional sander for a few reasons.

He uses a twin motor 6hp sander which runs 40 grit over the floor like its butter. But then finishes it with a wide disc sander, and I always think this creates the difference between the punter doing the floor and the professional.

He coats the floor with poly, they reckon water based stuff isn't upto scratch. It takes stains from blu-tac and so on. He also reckons if I clean our existing floor with a mix of water and turps, and hot water and soap - then they can do a clean up to minimise the scratches and other sundry damages.

To get Neil in, will cost $27 per metre (inclusive of everything and GST), which will be a total of close to $2000. For me to do it, will cost about $500 for sander hire for five days ( I would need to sand between coats as well). About $400 for the finish. And another $100 for sundries. So it cost me an extra $1000 to get it done professionally - but we reckon it will be money well spent.

The timber itself is Northern Beech (which I think is a mixture of light coloured hardwoods such as blackbutt, spotted gum, rose gum etc). It cost around $2.90 per lineal metre (about $3.10 delivered) and is feature grade. The floorsanders commented, quite a bit, on how hard the timber was. And this is from guys who spend their time sanding Cypress, Vic Ash and Jarrah.

The floor all looks the same, it is just different light which makes it look darker.

The rooms are a bedroom, TV room/4th bedroom and main living area.

The photos are only after 1 coat, when the other two coats are done I will post up some more pics.

[BDM]

Love the Thread keep it going give us more imfomation on your project

Best Regards

Peter

[namtrak]

Thanks,

I have a few more photos on the way of the finished floor and the new portico.

However in the meantime, I have created an updated budget. I will wait until the whole renovation is completed before I post up a copy of the final budget. The short story though, is that upto this point we have spent $92,692.06 and we budgeted for $85,821.95 For those interested in the cost of extensions, we are looking at 90 sqm of extension, including three new holes in the existing house (lintels etc) plus a 15 sqm portico. The 90 sqm also includes 25 sqm of deck.

In all our renovation worked out at $1029 per sqm. or about $9559 per square.

This is slightly misleading as a budget because I have included some $4,000 on tools I purchased which I didn't budget for. I also haven't included paint or render which I haven't got to yet. We have spent up pretty big in doors, windows and a new fireplace. Those items alone put us about $5,000 over our budget - however we are pretty happy with what we got. Another item that knocked our budget about were all the extra doodads. Battens, glues, screws, nails, tape and so on all add up extraordinarily quickly.

I will post up a couple more tips in the tips for Owner Builder threads shortly.

Cheers

[namtrak]

This is half done at the moment, if I get around it to it I will roof it and line it my self, otherwise it's just another job for the plumber. I am going to set down lights into it right at the front so we can point them down onto the garden.

The pictures are all pretty self explanatory, the roof, fascia and gutter will be the same as the existing house

[namtrak]

This is the ironing centre we installed.

It's a robinhood IC 300 (http://www.robinhood.co.nz/products/easyiron/easyiron-ic300.html) and is wired at the back to a power point. We could have hardwired it, but we felt it gave us a bit more flexibility if we stuck a double power point in the back of the linen press. One word of warning the centre is too narrow to store our existing iron so we still need to stick the iron in a different cupboard. We will just need to make sure that our next iron fits.

Over all though SWMBO is very happy with it, as it has a very small footprint and is very simple to set up.

[namtrak]

This is the almost finished front bedroom, just skirts and wardrobe to go.

I think I got stitched up on the door. Normally I shop around for everything, but I just decided when I saw that one I wanted it. Cost me $760 - which was probably about $300 over priced. The glass is etched, and the door is solid timber but still.....

The rails were too narrow for a mortice lock, and the door handle barely fitted.

The blind on the front window is suede. We think we did alright there, the three blinds cost $560. We were after a contrasting effect in the two bedrooms, and rather than put sills in the windows we actually framed the window completely with architraves - a bit different but I like the look of it.

[namtrak]

This is the fireplace side of the new lounge room.

The room is all but painted and plastered. It's come up all right considering the number of butt joins in the ceiling. And if you are doing butt joins - then do them by the book - it actually works, my only difference was to really spread the top coat out past the flat - just to give me something to work with.

We have used downlights through all the extension because the ceiling is slightly lower than the existing house at 2700mm and we felt hanging lights would crowd us a bit. Sadly we couldn't use the fluoro downlights because they just don't pump out enough light.

The unpainted and uncorniced bit is where we are waiting for the new fireplace. We paid for it some 10 weeks but are still waiting for it to turn up. Because it is new fireplace in Australia it still needs some official approvals which are a bees dick away. Either way I felt it better to wait until I actually had the thing before I tried finishing off the plaster, cornice and paint.

The fireplace is an Escea 850 and is made in NZ (http://pivotstove.com.au/index.php/products/id/237)

[namtrak]

Everything has come to a screaming halt for the last few months. SWMBO was floored with an unknown virus, which kept her more or less bedridden for 2 months, and turned me into a carer - then I came down with the flu' - sort of been one thing after another lately.

However, I am just starting to get back on track. We are doing the rendering at the moment, we are using an acrylic render which amongst other things ' sticks like the proverbial to a blanket'. The render has gone over both the existing rendered wall and the new Hebel powerpanel walls quite well. So well in fact that we'll only need one coat.

A tip for the DYI'er.

The Hebel needs top be wet before application, and it absolutley soaks up the water. Which in turn means that, if the ground around the house is still dirt it will become a quagmire, which can make it a bit problematic to work in. :rolleyes:

It's a bit hard to get a photo of the render that does it justice, as it is a bit overcast here.

But I have included a before photo showing the existing house and Hebel join prior to rendering, and the front of the house showing how it is coming up. The photo of the front also shows up the new portico, which I just need to run some cement sheet into.

When the corner where the join is between the old and new is I'll post it up as a comparison.

As it stands at the moment 90 sqm of rendering has cost $1320. This includes labour and render. All up to get the whole house done will cost just on $2000. Or about $15 per sqm.

I have managed to save a little bit by doing as much of the prep work as possible - making sure all surfaces were ready and keeping lunch and coffee up to the renderer.

To put this price in perspective, we had a quote from a professional rendering company who quoted (using a sprayer and acrylic render) just on $12,000 or about $90 per sqm.

[namtrak]

Another tip from the renderer was not to use coloured render. But rather render the house and then paint it. He reckoned that if we rendered with a coloured render, then if there is some damage you cant just re-render the damaged bit but the whole panel because it is too hard to get a colour match.

[Dirty Doogie]

Hi Namtrak,

This is a great thread and I must congratulate you on your work and also on your ability to keep writing about it.

I usually try to keep a journal of my reno's but then the entries start trailing off becuase you are just too tired.

How long do you estimate is it going to take to get it finished from now?

Doog

[namtrak]

Thanks Dirty Doogie Howser,

Final rendering, and general tidy up around the yard 1 week
Finish skirts and archs. 2 days
Paint Ceiling in loungeroom 2 day
Paitn walls in loungeroom 2 days
Paint Skirts and archs 3 days
Lay insulation 1 day
Finish extended kitchen bench 3 days
Finish builtins 5 days
Final plaster sanding painting 3 days
Install fire place 1 day
Finish cornice and sanding around fireplace 5 days
Paint internal doors 5 days
Cement sheet on portico 1 day
Concrete patio 2 days
Concrete around new extension 5 days
Stormwater 1 day
Paving and Retaining wall 3 days
New front gate 1 day
Paint outside 5 days

Easily 55 days, given the 3 to 1 ratio I have been working on then around 150 days - December - all said and done!!!

Lets see how that pans out then eh?

[Dirty Doogie]

It is all those little finishing jobs at the end that seems to bog people down - I still havent managed to get all the skirting boards on 1 year later LOL!

MY tip ; cut and scribe the skirting boards and test fit them - then take them outside and finish them before fixing. Especially if they are being stained and or painted. Trying to finish them in situ kills the knees and the neck.

best wishes Doog

[namtrak]

Rendering is all done. Looks great and come in at $2330. Which was a bargain compared to the $10,000 + quotes we did have. I haven't bothered with photos, as they don't do it justice. Maybe when we've finished the painting.

Another couple of little jobs which we have almost got through are the glass 'fineries' cabinet and the fireplace.

The fireplace is an Escea 850 (http://pivotstove.com.au/index.php/products/id/237) which we bought from this mob. We had all sort of diffculties, well not difficulties as such but just a long delay. It seems when we bought the heater (paid up front) it wasn't approved for Australian standards, and that took almost another 6 months. As far as we can tell, it wasn't the fault of the supplier, but more the manufacturer who was a bit liberal with the facts. Either way, it is now in and is exactly what we were after. I am still waiting on the sparkie to connect up the bypass, but other than that all is good and works a treat.

The cabinet was an afterthought, and was put in for two reasons. One because we had nowhere to stick wine glasses and such (like all married couples we have cupboards full of crap no-one has ever seen - figuratively and literally :rolleyes: ) And the other reason was because, when we cut the two holes in the existing wall it effectively created a free standing internal wall - albeit loadbearing, however I felt better having a cupboard built perpindicular to the existing wall.

And for Ozwinners benefit, the back of the cupboard includes a small offcut of one of the mirrors we picked up from his joint (photos of the framed mirror to come)

[Dirty Doogie]

I love those recessed niches in gyprock. It looks sexy IMHO :)

[Mammosgrub]

Just wondering what render product you used, how much it is, and how hard is it to apply?
Thanks

[namtrak]

The house is now painted in a colour called Weathered Cedar. In total I used 2 15litre drums of primer (tinted in the cedar) and 2 15litre drums of exterior paint. The total cost for the paint was $360. I also used some 5 cans of etch primer to paint the pipes and downpipes. And one can of touch-up paint in the same colour as the colour bond.

The paint is actually a Solver brand, but I wanted to use the product that was designed for the render. So i just took a swatch to the company that supplied the render and they tinted the paint and primer to exactly what we wanted.

The render was EuroTac 2000 acrylic render and covered our house in one coat. That was over the existing render and the new hebel. The render cost about $20 per bag. It is relatively straightforward to apply, but you do need to keep the surfaces wet, very wet.

The colour of the house doesn't show up too clearly, but you get the idea.

PS....

All the images in this whole thread were accidently deleted, and sadly for the first year and half I dont have any copies as I lost a lot of pics with a hard drive crash. I will try and restore the pictures that I do have so it makes a bit more sense.

[silentC]

Looking good. Shame about the earlier pics, it was a good record.