dial indicator

[fittermachinist]

hey guys,

what is a good brand for a "finger" type dial indicator and where can i buy a good quality one?

thanks everyone

[Bryan]

037 : Dial Test Indicators (http://www.longislandindicator.com/p37.html)

[Anorak Bob]

hey guys,

what is a good brand for a "finger" type dial indicator and where can i buy a good quality one?

thanks everyone

There are plenty of "good" brands, boils down to how much you are prepared to spend. I'd recommend Mitutoyo from an affordability point of view. New, they are not too stiffly priced. Secondhand on Ebay, there are bargains to be had.

Upping the ante, you could look at the offerings of the Swiss and Germans. Compac, Alina, Tesa and Mahr amongst others make some nice gear. I'm hunting for a nice metric Compac DTI but sadly they are thin on the ground in the bargain department.

Bryan's suggestion is the suggestion I was going to make.

BT

[Gerbilsquasher]

Shoot me down if I am wrong, but I have heard that the Measuremax stuff comes out of the same factory as Mitutoyo, and is not badly priced. Having used some it is okay, and in the clumsy stages of learning your skills it is not too heart-wrenching should you knock it off the bench. I do have a really nice Mercer that is waiting on the shelf for me to evolve to its level....:D

[morrisman]

This may suit you, but it may be too expensive

Mahr Dial Test Indicator Puppitast 800 SM - Metric Horizontal | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mahr-Dial-Test-Indicator-Puppitast-800-SM-Metric-Horizontal-/160842532632?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2572f64718)

I only have a cheap Chinese thing at the moment , the Mitutoyo DTI that came with my Sheraton broke , it jams .

If you peruse the UK ebay site, you can find Mercer , Baty and similar stuff at a good price, but most sellers dont post outside of the UK :((

Mike

[welder]

At work we mostly use a 40 year old mercer 0005" or a Mitutoyo 0.01 mm. At home I have a fair few clocks but my Favorite is my mitutoyo 0001" but I am on the hunt for a metric model of Swiss branding.

[jack620]

Serious question, as I have a DTI on my Wish List:

Is a well-used (or maybe even dropped in its previous life) Swiss DTI more accurate/reliable than say a brand new Mitutoyo? A new Mitutoyo comes with a Test Certificate so you know its accuracy out of the box. I'm probably displaying my ignorance here, but how do you verify the accuracy of a used DTI? Wouldn't you need another DTI of equal or better accuracy to benchmark it against? I'd love to buy a used Swiss one, but I would worry about its history.

[Anorak Bob]

Serious question, as I have a DTI on my Wish List:

Is a well-used (or maybe even dropped in its previous life) Swiss DTI more accurate/reliable than say a brand new Mitutoyo? A new Mitutoyo comes with a Test Certificate so you know its accuracy out of the box. I'm probably displaying my ignorance here, but how do you verify the accuracy of a used DTI? Wouldn't you need another DTI of equal or better accuracy to benchmark it against? I'd love to buy a used Swiss one, but I would worry about its history.


Hi Chris,

My Mitutoyo DTIs are old, could be 40 years old, but both were in near flawless condition when I bought them. They were both used but had been looked after. I don't use them for measurement as such, I use then to check alignment. If I acquired, let's say a Compac metric DTI, I'd be using it for much the same thing. I's not really something I need to have, more a case of something I'd like to have. If there was wear in the instrument affecting its accuracy in some minor way, I wouldn't know and for what I would use it for, it wouldn't really matter.

On the other hand, if I wanted an accurate measurment I would use a dial indicator set up in a jig to ensure alignment and accuracy. I have my 1um Mahr and a couple of brand new Compacs which will get me as close as I'll ever need.

Buying used on Ebay you can only go by the seller's description and the appearance of the item in the seller's photos. Beater's stand out.

BT

[jack620]

Thanks Bob.

So ideally one brand new DTI of known accuracy for critical jobs and as many used ones as you like for leaving set up on various machines? Mmmm, I could see how it might become an addiction!

[Anorak Bob]

Thanks Bob.

So ideally one brand new DTI of known accuracy for critical jobs and as many used ones as you like for leaving set up on various machines? Mmmm, I could see how it might become an addiction!

A dial indicator set up on a machine might be a more robust solution. A DTI is a bit too dainty.

BT
ps. I bought a 50 page Compac catalogue the other week on US Ebay. When it arrives I'll do a bit of scanning. I imagine it will whet a couple of appetites.:U

[welder]

I have checked one of my indicators by putting it on a stand.then putting the stand a surface plate zero the indicator to the plate. I then put a 1 thou shim under the needle and observed the reading.

[Stustoys]

Hi Chris,
I wonder if you are confusing DTI and Dial gauge?(as they are generally used).
DTI is the lever type.

"So ideally one brand new "Dial gauge" of known accuracy for critical jobs and as many used ones as you like for leaving set up on various machines? Mmmm, I could see how it might become an addiction!" plus a DTI for setting zeros.

Stuart

[jack620]

Hi Stuart,
I was aware of the difference, but wasn't aware DTIs are 'dainty' as Bob puts it. If that's the case, I'd best keep my clumsy mitts away from them.

I currently only have one 10mm Mitutoyo dial indicator which is mainly used to zero-in the 4 jaw chuck. I was going to buy a 50mm travel Mitu' dial indicator for my tailstock, but I learned after reading the website that Bryan linked to that they are only meant to be used vertically. Back to the drawing board.

So what do you guys use DTIs for? I'm not sure if I need one now.

[Stustoys]

only meant to be used vertically. Back to the drawing board.
Where did you find this?
I found dont use them "between horizontal and upside down"
139 : Dial indicators (http://www.longislandindicator.com/p139.html)

I'd think a digital vernier is the way to go for a tailstock. I certainly like mine, though you may not like that look.

I use my DTI mostly for setting up things in the four jaw. They have less "measuring weight"* so I find them easier to get repeatability with. My 0.001mm mit dial gauge needs to be very solidly mounted to get repeatability.


Stuart

*I assume there is another word for this but I have no idea what it is.

[jack620]

Stuart,
On page 50 under Precautions it says:

"Mount the indicator in an upright position. Gravity is used to get the spindle to come down to its zero position. The manufacturer does not claim that this indicator will work horizontally or - forget about it - upside down. Some folks refer to this kind of indicator as a "drop indicator" because, when held upright, the spindle "drops" down."

Chris

[Anorak Bob]

Hi Stuart,
I was aware of the difference, but wasn't aware DTIs are 'dainty' as Bob puts it. If that's the case, I'd best keep my clumsy mitts away from them.

I currently only have one 10mm Mitutoyo dial indicator which is mainly used to zero-in the 4 jaw chuck. I was going to buy a 50mm travel Mitu' dial indicator for my tailstock, but I learned after reading the website that Bryan linked to that they are only meant to be used vertically. Back to the drawing board.

So what do you guys use DTIs for? I'm not sure if I need one now.

A few photos to show typical setups where a dainty DTI can fit in places not as easily accessed with a larger dial indicator. Having a flexible indicator stand is a real blessing.

I just had to show off my new plaything from Placentia. :U

BT

[Stustoys]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for that, I'd not heard that before, glad I never managed to find one on ebay.

Hi Bob,
I'm starting to want one of your all singing all dancing sine bars now.
Whats the silver round thing in your second picture? some sort of adjustable stop?

Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

One of the two optical micrometers that came with the machine. Manufactured in Paris by Optique et Précision de Levallois. They are imperial, the 13 is metric. I was fooling around trying to see if that one would work as a repositioning device.

More here if you are interested. http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/schaublin-13-a-119340/#post1167481

BT

[Ueee]

Stuart,
On page 50 under Precautions it says:

"Mount the indicator in an upright position. Gravity is used to get the spindle to come down to its zero position. The manufacturer does not claim that this indicator will work horizontally or - forget about it - upside down. Some folks refer to this kind of indicator as a "drop indicator" because, when held upright, the spindle "drops" down."

Chris

Hi Chris,
That info is only specifically for the 2" travel mity.....personally for a long travel i would go cheaper, CTC have metric ones and arc euro imp. Or as Stu said, go digital.

[Ueee]

One of the two optical micrometers that came with the machine. Manufactured in Paris by Optique et Précision de Levallois. They are imperial, the 13 is metric. I was fooling around trying to see if that one would work as a repositioning device.

More here if you are interested. http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/schaublin-13-a-119340/#post1167481

BT

Oh........the beauty.......sigh......My POS mill came with a blue metal toolbox.....does that count:(

[Stustoys]

And he says I have all the nice optics.... or was that strange optics?:D
Thanks Bob, half way to a jig borer.
I would have thought imperial would be right up your alley.
Certainly another interesting piece in your collection.

Stuart

[Ueee]

Unlike you Stu, Bob is using his for its intended purpose. You don't.....well i think you don't:D Just imagine what Bob could get up to with his optics if he used it for an other than intended use......

[Anorak Bob]

Unlike you Stu, Bob is using his for its intended purpose. You don't.....well i think you don't:D Just imagine what Bob could get up to with his optics if he used it for an other than intended use......

I'd be deep in the action with the OPL with its 3mm focal length. Stu, on the other hand, can stand back as a spectator with the Zeiss.:D I prefer the hands .. well maybe not really the hands on approach.

Ha Ha

BT

ps. Stu, you having a go at me about my advanced age with that imperial crack?

[Anorak Bob]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for that, I'd not heard that before, glad I never managed to find one on ebay.

Hi Bob,
I'm starting to want one of your all singing all dancing sine bars now.
Whats the silver round thing in your second picture? some sort of adjustable stop?

Stuart

Stu,

I was looking at sine bars on Ebay. I had seen this some time back but hadn't realised how useful it could be. Kingmann White bars might be few and far between but CTC 's aren't.

MINI MAGNETIC SINE BAR #L36 - TOOLMAKER SETUP LAYOUT TOOL CNC MILLING LATHE #l36 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINI-MAGNETIC-SINE-BAR-L36-TOOLMAKER-SETUP-LAYOUT-TOOL-CNC-MILLING-LATHE-l36-/150869816159?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item23208ab35f)

BT

ps. Not so few and far between if ring ins are included. Stiff shipping on this one. :o

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YTC-M250-Sine-Bar-/330669074919?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfd69a9e7#shId (http://www.ebay.com/itm/YTC-M250-Sine-Bar-/330669074919?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfd69a9e7#shId)

[Stustoys]

$75.45! it must be bigger than it looks ;)
I'm out of money again until next credit card month :( though hopefully I have burners for my furnace.


Stu, you having a go at me about my advanced age with that imperial crack?
Wouldnt dream of it. You couldnt be THAT much older than me:p and I can flip between them at will. Though I had to stop it as I got strange looks when I ordered things like 8" of 20mm round bar.

Stuart

[Ueee]

Though I had to stop it as I got strange looks when I ordered things like 8" of 20mm round bar.

Stuart

I'm glad I'm not the only one that does that....

Bob, how are you setting your sine bar, do you have a set of gauge blocks? Could a telescopic gauge be set with a Mic and used?

[pipeclay]

If you had to you could use a telescopic gauge,or at least try to,not sure how well you would have a feel for it though.
Gauge blocks would be the preffered method.

[Ueee]

Hmmm, thanks Peter,
Strikes me that the sine bar is by far the cheapest part of the setup, even a cheap set of gauge blocks runs into the $100's

[MuellerNick]

Compac, Alina, Tesa and Mahr amongst others make some nice gear.

I don't know the first two brands.
But Tesa, Mahr, Sylvac and Mitutoyo are never wrong. Fowler ist an other brand often found in the USofA. Sylvac and Fowler do work together.

If you want to measure (and not guestimate) buy one of the brands from above.
Dial indicators do have the problem of reverse play. Means the do have some slag when reversing the direction. If you don't have a calibration protocol, you can assume that it is half of the graduation. :oo:


Nick

[Anorak Bob]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that does that....

Bob, how are you setting your sine bar, do you have a set of gauge blocks? Could a telescopic gauge be set with a Mic and used?

Ueee,

The little instruction book shows a number of blockless set ups. I photocopied the book because it's falling to bits. I will photograph some of the copied setup illustrations and post them in the Placentia thread rather than cloud this one.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/delicacy-placentia-kingmann-white-mini-sine-bar-156956/#post1534692



BT

[Ropetangler]

$75.45! it must be bigger than it looks ;)


Stuart

I don't think so Stuart, if you look at some of their other items, the postage looks pretty outrageous generally speaking, as are a lot of their prices. They also seem a bit lazy with their listings, nothing has had its condition verified, they don't know if it works or not and one lot of medical photographic gear, several pallets of it was, quote, "too much to list". In my opinion they make Reliable Tools look good.
Rob.