Where to buy DM45/46 Mill with R8 spindle?

[variant22]

I am in the market for a "45" size mill such as the DM45, RF46, HM46 etc. I am trying to locate one with an R8 spindle. All I am finding is MT3 and MT4. Any ideas where I should be looking to find this elusive beast "in-stock"?

[Ch4iS]

Titanmachinery.com.au have a few TM45 models which have an R8 spindle.

I purchased my DM45 about 5 years back from them through ebay.

[variant22]

Titanmachinery.com.au have a few TM45 models which have an R8 spindle.

I purchased my DM45 about 5 years back from them through ebay.


Thanks for the lead. The Y travel looks a bit short on the Titan machine. I am looking for 230mm+.

[Big Shed]

Bit hard to give you a sensible answer without knowing where you are, Australia tends to be a bit large!

But I purchased my DM 45 with an R8 spindle here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/new-dm45-mill-129991/).

[variant22]

Big Shed - I have read through your thread a few times. I saw you got your mill from Standaco. I also thought I read that they were no longer working with small machines. Anywhere in Victoria would be good. It will need shipping, but that is not a big deal. Main issue is finding one with decent Y travel that has an R8 spindle. I have a lead on one but it is a 12 week wait.

Alternative is going with an MT4. That said, from what I have read it sounds like this should be avoided if possible.

Edit: I called Standaco and they only sell from the turret mills upwards. So they are unfortunately out.

[morrisman]

Hi

I bought my DM 45 with R8 spindle from Standaco, around Oct. last year . Great people to deal with .I got the last one in stock .

The Addison T&C grinder I have has the Standaco sales label on it . I think they dabbled in all kinds of stuff over the years Mike

[simonl]

Hi there. I have a mill was a mt4 and have found it to be ok. Admittadly its my first mill so i don't know any different. Why should a mt4 be avoided?
I have heard its because of lack of tooling but i have had no problem getting er collet set 32 and er40 facemill and boring head etc. My tooling requirements are pretty basic i guess but there's plenty of stuff out there. I have since come to the conclusion it just comes down to personal preference.

Cheers,

Simon

[variant22]

Why should a mt4 be avoided?

Thanks for your input Simon. The reason I am thinking R8 is because apparently there is much more tooling available and it is cheaper. I am no expert on the subject.

[simonl]

Thanks for your input Simon. The reason I am thinking R8 is because apparently there is much more tooling available and it is cheaper. I am no expert on the subject.

I see. I have heard that too but am yet to experience this with the basic tooling I have bought. Good luck with your search!

Simon

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Thanks for your input Simon. The reason I am thinking R8 is because apparently there is much more tooling available and it is cheaper. I am no expert on the subject.

That's not so true in Australia. In the US they tend to have lots of cheap secondhand R8 tooling popping up due to the proliferation of Bridgeport mills in that country, but in Australia the availability is probably about the same as anything else... NT30 seems to have been more common in industry here, and is arguably the most common to find secondhand, but it's not really that cheap.

In terms of new tooling, I think they're all much of a muchness with respect to availability, but NT30 is usually more expensive. A quick check on CTC tools for the prices of ER32 collet chucks shows $19 for both MT3 and R8, and $39 for NT30.

All that aside, in actual use the MT3 is reputed to be a pain at times getting the taper to release in a mill, but I've never used an MT3 mill so I can't confirm that. R8 certainly releases very easily - undo the drawbar a turn, and give the top of it a quick sharp rap with whatever is closest (in my case, thats normally the bodgy handle from my milling vise :B, but one of those very cheap hammers with the nylon head one end and rubber the other also works fine). NT30 I don't know about, but I don't remember reading any complaints with regard to taper releasing...

Incidentally, you may wonder why I bother mentioning NT30 - the reason is that when I started looking for a mill, I was originally after a DM45. In the course of my research, I came across someone somewhere offering an NT30 spindle for the DM45 (and no, I wouldn't have a clue where it was!). However, while the NT30 taper on a bigger mill is a more rigid system, I wonder whether it would be worth bothering on a DM45, as the mill itself isn't particularly rigid, and you'd probably lose some of the valuable headroom.

[Big Shed]

There is plenty of tooling around for MT3, as well as R8, MT4 tends to be patchy.

Some suppliers don't stock MT4 at all, eg CDCO (where I bought a lot of R8 tooling) has no MT4 tooling at all.

I used to have an MT3 spindle mill (X2) and I can't say that I ever had any problems undoing any tooling from the spindle, but have heard it said that it can be hard.

Probably harder with MT4, being a bigger taper, but again, I have never used a mill with MT4.

I have to say I was initially a little apprehensive about an R8 spindle, as I had no experience with it, but having used it for some time now I am sold on the R8.

As far as knocking it out, I made a combination socket/brass hammer for that and it works like a charm.

Posted it here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/combination-drawbar-tool-108330/).

Edit:
Just did a seacrh on CTC for MT4, 12 hits, R8 30 hits, probably not all that scientific but it is indicative.

[welder]

I have a 3 mt in my mill it's fine and tooling is easy to get.

[PDW]

Hi there. I have a mill was a mt4 and have found it to be ok. Admittadly its my first mill so i don't know any different. Why should a mt4 be avoided?


Because, like all self-locking tapers, it's a PITA to break the taper free of the spindle. Morse taper drills are meant to self-lock and have an ejection tang anyway. Threaded drawbar MT tooling requires a sharp smack on the top of the drawbar to get them loose.

4MT isn't bad in terms of its capacity to deliver HP and shank rigidity; there's a lot of area in contact with the spindle and it's pretty beefy. I've got a 4MT all angle head that one day I'll fit to the Victoria U2 horizontal mill (about the same time as sea level rise gives me a deep waterfront the way projects are stacked around here).

My recommendations for milling machine taper shanks are, in order, the ISO ones, 30 for smaller machines 40 by preference, then R8, then Morse. The ISO ones self-release and drive via dogs on the face of the spindle not via friction. They also seat repeatably in the spindle, something not to be overlooked if you're swapping tools and don't want to have to reset your Z axis zero each time. R8 self-releases; as new some have a little set screw that engages with a recess in the shank but this is purely for location, not drive torque. The screw is better removed before it gets twisted off frankly.

I don't particularly like R8 but I have one - a B/port J head. I consider its limit about a 50mm TCT cutter for any reasonable DOC and feed. I'd swap it for an ISO 30 taper milling head in a heartbeat. I'd *love* to get my hands on an ISO 40 turret type milling head......

PDW

[variant22]

The fact that there is not much discussion out there on MT4 (this is the taper on the machine I have my eye on) was disconcerting. I am really looking for the path of least resistance. I figured the R8 was the logical choice rather than using an adapter/sleeve on an MT4 to run MT3 tooling. I would expect that I will be buying much of my tooling from the aforementioned suppliers. The end goal is to CNC this machine. It is my "next years" project.

Big Shed: The socket-hammer is neat. Reminds me of the shifters with the hammer face on them. I can see myself building a similar tool.

[PDW]

The fact that there is not much discussion out there on MT4 (this is the taper on the machine I have my eye on) was disconcerting. I am really looking for the path of least resistance. I figured the R8 was the logical choice rather than using an adapter/sleeve on an MT4 to run MT3 tooling. I would expect that I will be buying much of my tooling from the aforementioned suppliers. The end goal is to CNC this machine. It is my "next years" project.

If you are going to build a CNC machine, think carefully on what I said about repeatable tool changes.

For small stuff, you can get by for an awful long time with something like a MT4 shank ER32 collet chuck. I haven't had to do it but I suspect you could rig something to give you repeatable tool settings WRT the Z axis.

If I was going to use end mills, slot drills and small TCT multi-tooth cutters with a plain shank the vast majority of the time then 4MT with an ER series collet chuck would pretty much take care of it. I have a couple small drill chucks with 1/2" straight shank arbors I use in my collet chuck, faster & easier than swapping over to the R8 drill chuck.

Keep in mind that I was born lazy and have cultivated the trait all my life.

PDW

[Ueee]

The fact that there is not much discussion out there on MT4 (this is the taper on the machine I have my eye on) was disconcerting. I am really looking for the path of least resistance. I figured the R8 was the logical choice rather than using an adapter/sleeve on an MT4 to run MT3 tooling. I would expect that I will be buying much of my tooling from the aforementioned suppliers. The end goal is to CNC this machine. It is my "next years" project.

Big Shed: The socket-hammer is neat. Reminds me of the shifters with the hammer face on them. I can see myself building a similar tool.

Hmmmm, i just use the spanner i undo the drawbar with, but being NT30 it only needs a tap. If you do a search for threads started by "woodfast", there was a lengthy discussion a month or 3 back on the merits of each taper, David was looking at his first mill and asking the same things as you are.
Good luck

[Big Shed]

The R8 only needs a tap too, but this was made for my little X2 mill with MT3.

As luck would have it the socket also fits the drawbar for the R8.