Atlas 7B Dulux re-furb

[welder]

Hi folks on the weekend I finally started on the restoration of my wee little atlas shaper. I plan on painting it,changing the bearings and re making the down feed screw the original is a 1/2 unc and it's way to course. Here's a before photo and a photo of the scratches in the ram. I got lucky all the ways are in great condition execpt for two scratches on the ram.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sOgsMsLD4S8/S97Q1F6QytI/AAAAAAAAAIU/phoEQ8-THOg/s480/Image0189.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--swy1ovuofA/UDtiyYeG_nI/AAAAAAAAApw/u7cworGzt08/s640/P8260001.JPG


scratches on the ram

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JcL-wpfQNsI/UDti_zQCI5I/AAAAAAAAAp4/XWmznhv_MrU/s640/P8260004.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-q4KvdCkW9mc/UDtjCfGLGCI/AAAAAAAAAqA/ythewalJPnU/s640/P8260005.JPG

[Ueee]

Good to see Andre:2tsup:
I'm surprised to see a small shaper with square ways everywhere. The hardest i found was the vertical "adjustment" of the ram ways, as you need to machine the way plates to suit. Mine has huge play vertically, but since the ram weighs so much its only a problem on those monster cuts! All i need is a huge surface plate and i could fix that......

Look forward to the updates.

[shedhappens]

Ill be looking forward to the update's also Welder, this will be a great project and a very handy machine. :D

Are you going to use 1/2 UNF for the downfeed ?

That would give you .050" per full turn of the handle or .025" for a half turn, I find it hard to understand why it would have had a 13 TPI thread ?

[welder]

Yep I am going to make it a unf thread I have no idea why they used a 13 tpi thread but other than that the machine is very well built.

[shedhappens]

welder does it have a graduation collar for the downfeed handle ?

I'm wondering if that downfeed screw has been replaced before ?

[Ueee]

welder does it have a graduation collar for the downfeed handle ?

I'm wondering if that downfeed screw has been replaced before ?

The douglases have a crazy tpi too don't they? Maybe its just something unexplainable the manufacturers did?
John, i imagine the Austo has a 5tpi like mine? makes the 20 tpi Andre is going for sound very fine indeed, actually i think 5 tpi is a bit course, from the little i have done anyway.

[shedhappens]

The douglases have a crazy tpi too don't they? Maybe its just something unexplainable the manufacturers did?
John, i imagine the Austo has a 5tpi like mine? makes the 20 tpi Andre is going for sound very fine indeed, actually i think 5 tpi is a bit course, from the little i have done anyway.


Ueee It should have a graduation collar, I can see one in the picture here Atlas Shaper (http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlasshaper/index.html)
the graduations on that would give an indication of the thread and welder could make his thread to suit the collar with TPI that is a division of 1000

I reckon 5 TPI thread is needed for the load of the cut on the bigger shapers, ESPECIALLY after I seen your little play session :2tsup:

[Anorak Bob]

The douglases have a crazy tpi too don't they? Maybe its just something unexplainable the manufacturers did?
.

1/2" BSW Ewan. Doesn't make a lot of sense.:no:

[Stustoys]

Hi Welder,
Did you pick a color yet?
Even that size they dont look "light".
Look forward to watching it come together.



1/2" BSW Ewan. Doesn't make a lot of sense.:no:
Are you talking just about the thread or the imp system as a whole? :D

Stuart

[morrisman]

How does one go about repairing scrape marks on ways as pictured on that shaper ?

Is there a suitable filler available ?

Mike

[Steamwhisperer]

Are you talking just about the thread or the imp system as a whole? :D

Stuart

Hey! I heard that.:oo:

Phil

[welder]

I never though about filing the scratches I was just going remove the burs and reassembled. I am not 100% but I think it will be painted dark blue.

[Abratool]

Hey! I heard that.:oo:

Phil
I also heard it :U
Bruce

[Stustoys]

Hey! I heard that.:oo:

Phil
I also heard it :U
Bruce
What we SHOULD have been taught in our senior year of high school - The Oatmeal (http://theoatmeal.com/comics/senior_year) :p

Sorry if I may have strayed just a little OT

Stuart

[welder]

Haha I like that one :roll:

[welder]

I checked the ram today and found that the ram is worn 0.03 mm. (0.0012") at the clapper end do you think I should worry about this wear :?

[Abratool]

I checked the ram today and found that the ram is worn 0.03 mm. (0.0012") at the clapper end do you think I should worry about this wear :?
Andre
Why not give the scraping of the ram a try & then transfer that accuracy to its mating parts.
It would not be that big a job on such a short stroke ram, & then you would know it was right, probably for a long time, to come.
The scoring you previously mentioned could be rounded over & you could consider them as "Oil grooves" The knowledge you picked up in the April Scraping course could be applied to this job, with outstanding results .0012" easy.:2tsup:
regards
Bruce

[welder]

I guess that's what I will have to do but alas my surface plate is not up to the job. I will investigate building a scraper sharpener and lap and look for a surface plate :B

[Abratool]

I guess that's what I will have to do but alas my surface plate is not up to the job. I will investigate building a scraper sharpener and lap and look for a surface plate :B
Andre
When I Surface Grind your shaper table & do the square milling job, why not bring along the Ram.
Even if you have to leave it with me, I am sure I can scrape it to straightness & then yoo can use that as a reference to scrape it into the main part of the machine.
How long overall is the Ram?
regards
Bruce

[welder]

That's a very generous offer Bruce thank you :U
The ram is 16" long 4 " wide and the ways are about 5/8 wide. I will ask at school to see if I can borrow a surface plate they have sat in the storeroom for the last 30 years and are probably pretty flat. The ram will fit on my surface plate but I have a feeling that my plate is not very flat.

[Ueee]

That's a very generous offer Bruce the ram is 16" long 4 " wide and the ways are about 5/8 wide.

Andre have you arranged to get the parts to Bruce? I'm sure you have but i am heading north tomorrow and don't mind a few side trips.

[Abratool]

That's a very generous offer Bruce the ram is 16" long 4 " wide and the ways are about 5/8 wide.
Andre
Maybe it could be set up on my Surface Grinder initially to give it a lick.
I do not know if I would have the height but the grinder will take 18" long by 6" wide
The other aspect of this job is the table itself.
The table may have sagged or worn that amount, or it may have always been out by this amount.
Whatever happens, we will improve things.
regards
Bruce
ps Does the ram have 60 degree or square guides ?

[welder]

Ueee we have not organized A Date but I am free next Thursday, Friday Saturday and Sunday probably late for you. The whole machine has square ways.

[Ueee]

No we have not organized A Date but I am free next Thursday, Friday Saturday and Sunday

If it helps i will be heading south again next Saturday

[welder]

Well I spent this evening scraping the scratches out of the base where the foot that supports the table sits. I know want to re scrape the z axis ways.My question is if I scrape the ways to the surface plate would the two be parallel ?

[welder]

The scratches I was trying to remove

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EksbwmU7QZM/UGBQrxsDwyI/AAAAAAAAAss/gbWB05WzmeM/s640/P9220020.JPG

fly cutting

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qRfnuziMtTo/UGBO9zo9IUI/AAAAAAAAAsg/v5RgdKi1e-A/s640/P9220024.JPG

tonight's progress

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DUpXc-ISqSQ/UGBSgB-5w4I/AAAAAAAAAs0/WXvmKoOvJyc/s640/P9240038.JPG

[Stustoys]

Hi Andre,
Will both ways be on the surface plate at the same time? if so then they will be parallel, if not then they wont. I think they need to be kept square to the ram ways in two planes.

Also the area you have scraped on the base would need to be parallel with the X way.(though how close it needs to be I have no idea)

Stuart

[Bryan]

The table support / X axis is about the only critical alignment on a shaper that I can think of. Of course each element needs to be aligned in terms of itself, eg any pair of ways has to be parallel, but between elements, like the knee and the ram, most of them just don't matter.

[welder]

Hi Andre,
Will both ways be on the surface plate at the same time? if so then they will be parallel, if not then they wont. I think they need to be kept square to the ram ways in two planes.

Also the area you have scraped on the base would need to be parallel with the X way.(though how close it needs to be I have no idea)

Stuart

The surface plate spans both ways at the same time. What I scraped last night only supports the foot that supports the table and I will scrap the foot when the table is on so it will be parallel to the x axis.

[Stustoys]

most of them just don't matter.
Can't agree with "don't matter". Sure they might not need to be within 5 micron, but how close is "fit for purpose"? But as we never to vertical cuts with the table Z now do we? ;)
Shame MTR doesnt cover shapers


What I scraped last night only supports the foot that supports the table and I will scrap the foot when the table is on so it will be parallel to the x axis.
Both the bottom of the foot and the part of the base it slides on need to be flat and parallel to the x axis

Stuart

[welder]

I just got home from visiting Abratool who very kindly surface ground my shaper table and ram :U

[Abratool]

Andre
I spent some enjoyable hours Scraping your Shaper Ram.
I think its now better than when it left the Kalamazoo Mich USA factory in 1938 :2tsup:
Need to discuss with you the adjustment gibs on the machine.
I realise there are side adjustments to the ram, however are there adjustments for the mating section to the top of the ram ?
Before proceeding further I will need to know.
You will be able to "bearing blue" this Ram & use it as a master to scrape in the main body in situ.
Regarding the Shaper Table.
I found a slight error in the original of a couple of thou from the cross slide to the table top.
Did you Dial indicator the sideways movement off the table top when it was assembled?
I can set the table up for Surface Grinding after you advise.
regards
Bruce
Thanks for the (Red French Lubricant) it gurgles down the throat very well. :U

[welder]

I just got your message I will ring you this evening if I have time. The ram has a Peelable 5 thou thick shim for adjustments also I didnt. clock the table so I am not sure if it's out.

[Abratool]

I just got your message I will ring you this evening if I have time. The ram has a Peelable 5 thou thick shim for adjustments also I didnt. clock the table so I am not sure if it's out.

Andre
I have set up the table on a Surface Plate & run an Indicator over the Bearing Surface of the cross slide portion.
Although some of the original fly cutter milling marks show on one side of the table slide, the other side shows more wear. Probably caused by dirt & swarf over the 70 yrs, since its birth.
The wear is .005" or 5 Thou from one side to the other.
It could be scraped out or set up on the mill to take a fine trueing cut, before scraping. I can do this.
Also when you scrape the cross slide on the Shaper & reasemble everything, it might be best to true the table by taking a light cut with a single point tool held in the shaper.
This will ensure that all is parallel to the Shaper Ram, as you mentioned previously it was out by.0012"
regards
Bruce
ps I have got so interested in this job that I would like to get a similiar shaper to restore.:U

[welder]

After a 5 Month hiatus I started work on the shaper again. Today I scrapped the ram :U

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JbPEUJ1-WNo/UTxd8XaUH-I/AAAAAAAAAxU/dZ3GOqgqg1Q/s801/IMG_20130310211656.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pSLsCBGm4rU/UTxfCgnyrNI/AAAAAAAAAxg/LsdLADQ5vtg/s598/IMG_20130310212218.jpg

[Steamwhisperer]

Well done Andre :2tsup:

Phil
ps I will assume you meant 'scraped' and not 'scrapped' :D:D

[welder]

Thanks Phil I did mean scraped not scrapped :doh:

[welder]

Well I got a coat of paint on the three major components

[morrisman]

That is looking very nice Andre

At this rate.. you will have it finished by your 30th birthday :pointlaugh:

[Abratool]

Andre
Good to see the main body of the Shaper Scraped.
Did you find much wear in that section?
regards
Bruce

[welder]

Bruce ,There was not much wear in the main body the scraping went well thanks again for that work you did :2tsup:
On anther note I may have to reuse the bearing that came out of it as the bearings are bloody expensive :((

[welder]

Still no progress I will have it finished one day .

[Abratool]

Still no progress I will have it finished one day .
Andre
The Shaper is looking good.
The bulk of the work is done, it will not take long to finish it.
Looking forward to it making chips.
regards
Bruce

[welder]

well I have a deadline of the end of November to finish the shaper. I start my HSC IN about 2 hours :C:o:;:no::no:

[Abratool]

well I have a deadline of the end of November to finish the shaper. I start my HSC IN about 2 hours :C:o:;:no::no:
Andre
You will handle the HSC easily, not a worry !
Bruce

[Ueee]

Don't stress......although i can't say i've been there i dropped out of yr11.....

As for the guard, some Q bond type product works well on die cast, since you can't really do any soldering, brazing etc with it.

Ew

[welder]

Thanks guys,I ended up repairing the crack with some super glue and it seems to be. Holding up

[Abratool]

Andre
How was the exam?
Bruce

[Steamwhisperer]

Here's hoping it all went well Andre with your HSC

Phil

[welder]

Thanks for the thoughts. I have finished my English exams and only have business studies and metals and engineering left and it will all be done on November 5th .

[welder]

Well I have been doin some work. I have assembled as much as I can I am waiting to paint a could of little bits and next weekend I hope to get the table and ram put together, I have made a new tool post for it and need to make some threaded retaining collars which will be fun as I have never cut an internal thread before.

[welder]

Here are some more photos. The adjustment screw was bent 1.6mm so I had to gently press it straight :o

[welder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8phKtlEhZ6I&feature=youtu.be

[Abratool]

Here are some more photos. The adjustment screw was bent 1.6mm so I had to gently press it straight :o
Andre
This project is looking very good & nearing completion.
If you happen to get tired of the shaper or do not have a use or space for it, Andre, please give me first offer.
All the best
regards
Bruce
ps Nothing wrong with Imperial & I know Steamwhisperer Phil will be with me on that comment !
Also like the 0-1/2" Moore & Wright micrometer. I have always had a need for one of these in Starrett or Moore & Wright.

[Steamwhisperer]

Andre
This project is looking very good & nearing completion.
If you happen to get tired of the shaper or do not have a use or space for it, Andre, please give me first offer.
All the best
regards
Bruce
ps Nothing wrong with Imperial & I know Steamwhisperer Phil will be with me on that comment !
Also like the 0-1/2" Moore & Wright micrometer. I have always had a need for one of these in Starrett or Moore & Wright.

Agreed!!

Phil

[welder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3XUFcFn-lI

[Machtool]

I have finished my English exams and only have business studies and metals and engineering left and it will all be done on November 5th .

How do you feel you went in the English exam? Nov 5 is only 11 days away. Your shaper will last forever. It will still be there in 2 weeks after the exams. Don't be losing too much time on that, if you could be brushing up for exams.*

* I say that as a father that has a daughter also doing year 12. Its a cruel and unusual punishment, HSC / VCE exams, but it will all be over soon.

Regards Phil.

[welder]

Thanks for advice Phil, I agree with you my last exam is metals and engineering which is annoying me as I never did the course :((
'
PS I did make these videos a week ago :B

[Machtool]

I agree with you my last exam is metals and engineering which is annoying me as I never did the course
That doesn't sound good. How does that happen, sitting an exam for a course you never studied. NSW is such a strange place.:D

However, if there was ever any one that could pull a rabbit out of the hat when it came to metals and engineering, it might be you. Good luck man.

Phil.

[welder]

This happens when they think a school based apprenticeship is the same as the year 12 course which is not offered at our school :U

[Steamwhisperer]

Hi Andre,
I loved the vids. I have to say you must have one of the cleanest 'cutting room floors' around:D
A couple of tips for the future.
Only ever use a single cut file on the lathe. There is less chance of the file 'grabbing' and it leaves a better finish.
Before I had a DRO with the conical function, to set up a taper to make taper pins I would use the dial indicator.
Set up a piece of round stock in the chuck running as true as you can then off set the compound slide to approximately the taper required.
Mount the dial indicator in the toolpost and set to zero.
Mathematically work out, using the exact angle of the taper, how much the indicator should move over a distance of, say, 1.5 to 2 inches.
Move the compound that distance back and forth and keep adjusting the compound until the dial indicator reads what you previously worked out mathematically.
I'm pretty impressed you are making the pins instead of buying them. Everything you do yourself will be encouragement to do more.
Keep up the great work. :2tsup:

Phil

[welder]

Thanks for the comment Phil ,I am glad you liked the videos I am trying to make a few more . Funny thing is we use double cut files on the lathes at work so I brought my only single cut file to use there ,I really want a lathe file but they are to find :U

[Michael G]

Don't mention the "F" word - it attracts the attention of others and causes dissension within our happy band. However, I'll see if I can get you a lathe f___.

Michael

[welder]

Wel I cut my first ever internal thread on lathe today :U:U

[welder]

I broke the ZAMAK feed gear housing.

[pipeclay]

That will be a nice little skills building job to remake.

[Michael G]

I broke the ZAMAK feed gear housing.

So what's the plan? Machine an entirely new on from Al or make up an Al plug and bolt it in the right position on the casting? Others probably know better about this but I don't think Zamac can be soldered/ welded/ brazed up.

Michael

[welder]

Well I ended up machining the casting flat then making a clamp on replacement made of aluminium.

[welder]

it's almost done now ,I just need some time to get it done.

[welder]

She lives