First Lathe - what to buy

[Ringtail]

Hi all. Time to step up and buy my first lathe. It will mostly be used for resin. I'm not really interested in thread cutting. Must haves are powered long and cross feeds, 200 min swing and 400 between ctrs. My short list includes the hafco AL250 and the Sieg C3 or C6. Budget is $ 1800. Any others I should be looking at. Must be a new machine will good warranty and back up.

Cheers,

Alex

[Big Shed]

Of the 3 lathes you mention there, only the AL250 has both powered longitudinal feed and powered cross feed. The Sieg C3 and C6 only have powered longitudinal feed.

As I am not familiar with the AL250 I can't comment, but it appears to be a nice lathe for the money.

Don't forget that the money you spend on a lathe is only the beginning, you will need to budget a fair amount for tooling.

Have fun:2tsup:

[Ringtail]

Yep the tooling and other toys soon add up eh.:D I've done a bit of research on the Hafco and looked at one and they seem to be very good value for money. There is a bit of chat regarding capacitors in the motor letting go but apart from that I cant find any real negative feedback regarding them. The Seigs seem to be more light on with the features and mass but are priced well. I'd like to get something I can grow into rather than out grow and there doesn't seem to be much else out there in my price range ( that I'm aware of). Any advice / horror stories / good stories most welcome and appreciated.

Cheers,

Alex.

[Big Shed]

I am assuming you have seen this thread on the AL250?

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/hafco-al-250g-thread-cutting-limitations-149335/

[tongleh]

I have the AL250G and posted the thread on thread limitations. Although you say you're not interested in thread cutting: If you have the tools, one day you will use them? On thread cutting, I've found if you substitute the 36 tooth gear for a 34 you can cut most imperial threads, so that's not really an issue any more. I haven't had any issues with it and it seems to tick all the boxes so far. I made a stand/cabinet for it, disconnected the safety switches on the chuck guard and change gear door, tapped the cross slide for a milling vice and tightened the carriage/bed slack. The chuck mounting system is abysmal: it's really fiddly and difficult to remove or replace other than that I'm more than happy with it. . There was another forum member with an AL250G whose capacitors exploded. He was so underwhelmed with it he returned it. I think all that tells us is that the factories quality control isn't up to par: some are good, some not so much.

[Ringtail]

Thanks fellas. Yep I read that thread via google Big shed, and the capacitor one too - lucky boy. I assume its accurate tongleh ? If I go with the hafco just hope I get a Wednesday machine :D:D

[Ringtail]

Ok, so I'm sold on the AL250 from H&F and was on my out the door to buy it when I thought of tooling. I only require at this stage very basic bits to turn resin. The specs say 16 mm tooling. Its appears that the 16 mm is expensive tooling to buy compared to 10 and 12 mm. My question is, do I need to buy the 16 mm stuff or can I get a basic 10 mm kit for $ 40 and shim it to suit ?

Cheers,

Alex.

[pipeclay]

Yes you can.
But if your only turning resin you maybe better off using HSS tool bits,most of those indexable cheap sets have large nose radious tools.There tips are made to suit only that type of tool and not to a standard.

[Ringtail]

Ok cool thanks. I just need something that will get me started and learning for minimum cost. Later down the track I will no doubt upgrade to better tooling but for the next few weeks, cheap is good :D:p

Cheers,

Alex.

[azzrock]

hi alex. do you have space considerations to worry about.?
have you thought about a bigger machine. I can see the appeal
of a new machine but there is a hole lot more out there on the second hand market.

[Ringtail]

Space is no real concern, within reason. Something about 1200 long max fits the space Ive allocated but a bit of a reshuffle and 4 mt long is possible. That would mean moving power etc... which I'm not keen on. My preferred spot is next to 2 x 15 amp GPO's. The last thing I want to do is buy a good but flogged out premium machine and then spend months and many $$$ doing a refurb. If a good 2nd handy could be had a refurbed for 2 grand I would consider it. However, I know that the piece of string is a long one when it comes to reconditioning anything.

[Big Shed]

I turn a lot of "resin", cast polyester, as well as Acetal (Delrin). As said, HSS is fine for that work, in fact it works better than most carbide insert tooling I have, as it is sharper and I can grind it to the angle I want/need.

Most of the HSS I use is 10mm and I use this in a QCTP (Quick Change Tool Post) which I purchased from CDCO in the US for a fraction of what H&F want for the identical one.

Much easier than shims IMHO, when you go to the CDCO website have a look at their other tooling as well, I have purchased a fair bit from them. Their cheap carbide tipped boring bar set gets used a fair bit on my lathe and the QCTP comes with a holder that takes boring bars as well.

I have also purchased HSS tool bits from CTC in HongKong, he has a good selection of square, round and flat (parting off) bits.

When you buy the AL250, I would have a close look at the height of the stand,IMHO all the Chinese lathe stands are too low, and I am only a short *rse.

[Ringtail]

I wasn't going to buy the stand. I have a steel bench with a ply top that I made ages ago. It fits my space just right and is built like a mother so it should take the 180 kg no probs (fingers crossed). Thanks for the tip with CDCO. When you machine the resin are above or below centre or level ?

[Big Shed]

When you machine the resin are above or below centre or level ?

Always on centre.

[tongleh]

I use 5mm HSS bits and holders and 10mm insert tooling on my AL250G, only because I had these left over from my AL50. One day I'll probably get around to getting 16mm tooling, but for now the 5mm HSS and 10mm tooling does the job. I use the HSS bits for turning steel, ally, SS, brass, bronze, wood, plastic, nylon, etc. The only thing I use the inserts on is the initial cut on work hardened steel and SS. Shims will be required regardless of the size of holders to fine tune the height. I machine various shims for use with HSS holders, insert tooling, boring bars and parting off tools and stamp them accordingly: makes it quicker to select your shim and change tools. On lathes, Titan have a TL250 for a little over $1800, don't know if it has power cross feed, but it looks to be quite a nice machine. The only reason I didn't buy from Titan is because of high freight costs and they weren't interested in talking deals, I got my AL250G for $200 less during H&F's sale earlier this year and freight was only $50, can't beat that.

[Big Shed]

Most of the HSS I use is 10mm and I use this in a QCTP (Quick Change Tool Post) which I purchased from CDCO in the US for a fraction of what H&F want for the identical one.



Actually, I don't use much 10mm HSS, mainly 8mm. The carbide insert tooling I have is 12mm and 10mm. Hardly ever use the 12mm, only the 10mm set (from CDCO).

[Ringtail]

Thanks Big Shed.

Cool tongleh. Without any real pressure they dropped the price to $1650 including gst and a promised heavy discount on any extras. I'll have to get them to deliver it I think and maybe see if they have a engine gantry or similar to lift into position. 180 kg is well beyond my best effort in power lifting

[tongleh]

I stripped it down to bed and headstock then lifted it one end at time while the wife slid a couple of bricks underneath. My centre height is quite high at 48", so 50 odd bricks later I arrived at the right height and lifted it onto the stand. It also gave me a chance to inspect it before use, something I would recommend everyone do with a new lathe, that way they can inspect individual parts and see how everything fits together/works, identify weak areas and most importantly tighten all the fasteners, something the factory just didn't do in my case...

[Ringtail]

Righto. Well, I ended up giving all of the metal lathes a wide berth. All of the stories of rebuilding or stripping and reassembling various machines, dodgy this and run out on that etc...etc... put me off. And the fact that I will mainly be turning resin and need the quick freehand thing going - I got a wood lathe instead. I got a scroll chuck, live centre, arbor and drill chuck, full set of tools etc... for just over $ 800. I guess I'll get booted off the metal work site now.:D Thanks everyone for the advice. I know Ive got what I paid for, but the simplicity won out in the end.

Cheers,

Alex.

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