Burnt out my motor- shall I replace it or buy a new lathe?

[Oiliver]

So at the beginning of the year I purchased my first lathe, second hand off TradeMe (NZ equivalent of Ebay) for about NZ$400.

It was a Dynalink, reasonable size but quite underpowered (only 1/2 a HP I believe) and very shakey, and very difficult to change the belts/speed. The tailstock is also a little bit suspect, it doesnt stay tightened too well. After a bit of use, the belt snapped, so it was out of commission for a while until I chanced upon a replacement at a local chainsaw shop!

All went well for a while longer, and I was just starting to make some progress and build a little skill (I learnt a lot from the forums!) when it died on me. I was green tunring a mid-sized piece of alder, and the engine burnt out either BECAUSE the plastic cooling fan melted, or it CAUSED the cooling fan to melt :doh:

So my question: Should I try and replace/repair the motor and find a replacement fan, or should I try and start again with a new lathe without the above listed issues? If I should replace, what should I look out for in a second hand lathe? Brands, sizes etc.

I am a young student, so I don't have much money at all, and either way I go will require a lot of saving and penny pinching!

I am mostly interested in doing medium-small bowls and boxes, not pens and not table legs!

Thanks a bunch :)
Oli, NZ :)

[tea lady]

Sounds kinda like you want to be told you need a new one. :D Seems you might have grown out of it too. A better quality lthe could be the go. My first lathe was a bit so-so. But good while I decided oif I really wanted to do this. Then I got something better.:cool: Second hand of need be.

[Oiliver]

I would LOVE being able to justify getting a new one! The thing is, I would only be able to afford a basic second hand one (again). So I am not sure if that is going to be all that much better than just doing up my old bodger.

I have decided that I really want to keep turning! It is such an amazing feeling, I find it truly therapeutic... but I cannot yet afford to get a really decent lathe (short of a miracle). So I guess my question is: is it justified getting another second hand basic lathe, or does it make more sense to replace/repair the motor? How much does a motor usually cost, I have not been able to see any reasonable and accurate figure so far!

[Phil Spencer]

First thing, engines run on petrol motors run on electricity, (pedantic I know I use to sell electric motors), it will cost a few hundred dollars to rewind the motor and then it will depend if you can get a new fan and fan cowl, there will be new bearings, copper wore and the labour to rewind it. if you had a three phase motor it would be throw it out and buy a new one because it will be cheaper the same will go for a standard single phase motor, BUT if your motor is special in any way, special end shields or a threaded or special sized shaft it will be cheaper to repair. Not an easy question to answer on a forum take the motor to a motor repairer/re-winder and ask them.:)

[ian thorn]

Hi My sugestion is to get another lathethe one you had is not worth fixing but dont give up on turning even if you have to save up I sugest you google Terry Scott in south Auckland and contact him he sells and trades he may have somthing that suits , He is allso a very good wood turner and will look after you.

cheers Ian

Terry Scott [email protected] Papakura

[soundman]

Serioulsy the dynalink lathes are a pretty crude item and the motor is probaly worth more than the rest of the lathe.

Have a look at carbatec NZ........ CARBA-TEC - Woodworking Tools and Woodworking Machines (http://www.carbatec.co.nz)

that will at least give you an idea of what can be had for the price.

They will do the MC900......which is a pretty respoectable full sized beginner lathe for arround NZ$700.
Some people never see the need to go further than the MC900 and there may be a few out there second hand.

Another option is to go for a mini lathe....carbatec will do their entry level mini lathe, which looks like a knock off of a Jett mini lathe for arround NZ$400.

The mini lathes may be small and ya not going to swing a big bowl on one.....but they are a fine, compact, transportable machine that can doo some good work between centres.

I'm not sure who the other suual suspects are in NZ, but there have to be other woodwork suppliers over there.......and KIWIs are a mob of traders..so I am sure you should be able to scratch up some sort of used bargin somewhere.

cheers

[TurnedByIan]

Hi Oli, Not sure where you are in North of Auckland. If you are on the Shore, then I suggest joining the North Shore Woodturners Guild, North Shore Wood turning Guild (http://www.wood.org.nz).
Or join the Whangarei Guild details here NAW Club Contacts Northland (http://www.naw.org.nz/contacts/clubs/northland.html)
We find that members of the public often contact us with secondhand lathes for sale, before they go to TradeMe.
Also you will learn heaps faster when in amongst other turners on a weekly basis.
I'll also suggest talking to Grant at Carbatec 0800 444 329
There is a TL1500 on TradeMe at the moment, I turn on one of these. (have upgraded motor to 2HP three phase and variable speed controller).
Just be aware of what we call the "Vortex" :D:D
Cheers Ian

[tea lady]

Oh look a bunch of NZ people. :cool: They don't often come out of the wood work.:D All in one place at least. Some contacts there oili!:cool: (Oiliver was a typo, wasn't it? A man after my own heart. :D ) Good luck on your search.

[Phil Spencer]

Hi Oli, Not sure where you are in North of Auckland. If you are on the Shore, then I suggest joining the North Shore Woodturners Guild, North Shore Wood turning Guild (http://www.wood.org.nz).
Or join the Whangarei Guild details here NAW Club Contacts Northland (http://www.naw.org.nz/contacts/clubs/northland.html)
We find that members of the public often contact us with secondhand lathes for sale, before they go to TradeMe.
Also you will learn heaps faster when in amongst other turners on a weekly basis.
I'll also suggest talking to Grant at Carbatec 0800 444 329
There is a TL1500 on TradeMe at the moment, I turn on one of these. (have upgraded motor to 2HP three phase and variable speed controller).
Just be aware of what we call the "Vortex" :D:D
Cheers Ian

What is the "Vortex"? Do you get sucked into the spindle?

[tea lady]

What is the "Vortex"? Do you get sucked into the spindle?Maybe you find yourself having bought a new pair of green boots and they aren't even your size. :D

[vk4]

Ollie,

The lathe is a Dynalink, ( junk misspelt) Seriously, they filled a market gap, but were never for a serious turner.

I would save your Pennies, and also join a club, you will have the use of their machines while you save for your own new machine, and get the bonus of the knowledge of the other members, and most clubs have courses for new turners.

VORTEX, definition "SUCKS YOU IN".

Best of luck,

Jeff
vk4

[Oiliver]

Wow thankyou for all awesome replies guys! Some of them have been really helpful, thankyou :)

Phil: my mistake on the engine vs motors, I thought I had got it right but I obviously missed myself there! If you are saying that it will cost a few hundred to rewind the motor, that is making me think I should just go for a new one altogether. Especially considering it was not the best to start with, and (to my mind) underpowered.


Ian thorn: Thanks for that contact, I will definitely be looking him up sometime soon. Trade ins sound pretty nice to me too!

Soundman: Seeing as it looks like I will be getting a new one the way things have been going, I will be sure to steer clear of Dynalink in the future. Does Carbatec have a bit more positive reputation then? For small pieces which would be best (I turn bowls and the occasional vase up to about 300mm, up to maybe 400mm long/deep) the mini or the full size? I'm just worried a mini wouldn't have enough grunt, especially on heavy green wood.

[Oiliver]

TurnedByIan: I am located in Helensville at the moment, so it is a bit of a toss-up between North Shore and Waitakere- they are both quite far away unfortunately! I would love to casually attend meetings, but I think it might be a bit of a stretch to attend as a full fledged member (while I am living in the Wops, anyways!). Thankyou very much for the hint regarding secondhand lathes. I will be sure to talk to Grant too, a Carbatec is looking more and more promising! (the TL1500 does look good, but I don't have that much money available just at the moment :( I will save up and see what happens)
Also, despite being a complete beginner, I, too have experienced the vortex's tendrils! Oooh, look at that sand paper on special. That mineral oil is cheap! A bag of old chisels at the hospice??- let me have a look!! Haha it doesn't help that my older brother is much the same way re: woodworking!


Tea lady: Isn't it great seeing all these kiwis show their faces! Usually I only see one or two about the place; this is giving me a bit of a boost, seeing lots of like-minded people.


Vk4: It really does seem that way, about the Dynalink brand :( Hindsight is 20-20, they say! Maybe the way to go will be to go to a club and pick up hints and tips (and use their lathes!) until I have saved enough to get another of my own. Seems like the way to go for now at least.



Thanks heaps everyone :) (Don't suppose any of you kiwis have a spare just sitting around in the garage do ya? :wink: )

[TurnedByIan]

TeaLady: Don't often have to comment as you Aussies tend to have all the answers sorted out by the time I read the thread :whistling:

Oiliver, will ask at our Guild meeting Tuesday if someone has a boatanchor/dynalink stashed in a corner somewhere.
You won't go to far wrong with the TL1500, it's an oldie but goodie.
Also the MC900 isn't too bad considering the price. Carbatec here in Auckland has a very good rep.
Grant has sorta built a woodturning shop inside the main showroom and lots of woodturners pop in every day. He's figured out that we do spend money when looked after :2tsup:
Cheers Ian

[Oiliver]

Oiliver, will ask at our Guild meeting Tuesday if someone has a boatanchor/dynalink stashed in a corner somewhere.
You, good sir, are fantastic! I think I would die of happiness if someone did haha!

I think that a visit to Carbatec HQ is on the horizon, even just for a poke about for a while...:p

And yes, I agree with TurnedByIan, you Fellas across the ditch are awfully quick to get in and reply, I'm always well impressed :)

[vk4]

Oliver,

I have just looked at the August Carba -Tec Cat-Log,

A Woodfast Midi Lathe WM305, 6 speed,!/2 hp, 300mm swing,430 between centers, $400.00AUS
The MC900 is $469.00AUS,
Variable 500-2ooorpm,3/4hp, 300mm swing,900mm b/t centers

The mc900 will turn outboard as the head stock swivels, and can handle up to 400mm , IF THE PIECE IS BALANCED.

The swiveling head stock is not as ridged as a fixed unit, so you must beware of this short fall. I own 1 and it does work well, but I do need to tune mine , as it has some issues, 1 being the motor is not quiet in alignment, causing excessive belt wear, a job for a rainy day, ( no rain in last 12 weeks).

Cheers,

Jeff
vk4

[Oiliver]

A Woodfast Midi Lathe WM305, 6 speed,!/2 hp, 300mm swing,430 between centers, $400.00AUS
The MC900 is $469.00AUS,
Variable 500-2ooorpm,3/4hp, 300mm swing,900mm b/t centers

Thanks Jeff. In your opinion, how does Carba-Tec® Economy Mini Lathe : CARBA-TEC (http://www.carbatec.co.nz/carba-tec-economy-mini-lathe_c19865) this (NZ$400) stack up against those two? Is it too small for bowls? The MC900 is NZ$699 according to their site, so a wee bit more. Also, when it says 6-speed, does that mean that you have to stop, and manually shift gears like the Dynalink, or is that what that black lever is for?

The swiveling stock is a novel concept, but I did wonder if it had it's own issues when I saw it.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I get it right this time!

[Bushmiller]

Oli

The issue has become a little clouded, which of course is what it is all about, but it really comes back to money.

I would like an A6 Audi wagon or a vintage Invicta "S" or a Jensen 541R or a Horch 853 Streamliner or...Yes I'm sure you get the point and I before you ask I drive a 1995 Mazda:-. So what is your budget apart from being three parts of b****r all?

The first option, I suppose, is to replace the motor on your existing lathe, preferably with a slightly larger one, but you need to check if it will fit physically. Check the speed of the motor. It will either be approximately 1440rpm or 2900rpm. You may be able to find a motor that will suit if the Dynalink motor is nothing special, but it does need to be the same speed which you will find on the specification plate. If you have a half HP motor it will be 370W. 750W is a 1HP motor (that's the cue for the pedants to come out of the woodwork and say no no noooo, it's 743W or something similar :wink:).

The next option is to source a better but secondhand lathe on ebay or trademe. This listing is current on a similar model to yours to give an idea and at $150 is less than a brand new 1HP motor would cost!

dynalink wood lathe | Trade Me (http://www.trademe.co.nz/crafts/woodcraft/auction-514203631.htm)

It may be the lathe others have referred to, but I didn't look that closely.

The Carbetec lathes are good value without being worldbeaters. This is coming from someone who does not call himself a wood turner, but somebody who has bought an MC900 for his son albeit many years ago. Actusally it might be about 15 years ago! We threw away the flimsy stand that came with it and made up a new stand out of concrete and heavy steel channel. Most lathes improve out of sight if the vibrations can be removed. The better machines have a cast iron bed. If in the automotive world there is no substitute for cubic inches, in the woodturning world there is no substitute for weight.

This brings me to the best option of all. Hit up the oldies for a contribution or even better the whole damned caboodle:D.

Lastly, hold down three part time jobs, beg on the street corner on a Saturday evening or busk if you have musical inclinations and save enough to buy brand new. Carbatec MC900 or similar would be a good starting point.

I have just remembered, sometimes schools clear out their old lathes. A friend bought this one from a local school for $125 and then decided he didn't want it. We bought it from him for $150, but the cabinets and bed are rebuilt and we replaced the 1HP 3ph motor with a 1.5HP single phase motor.

Regards
Paul

[soundman]

Thanks Jeff. In your opinion, how does Carba-Tec® Economy Mini Lathe : CARBA-TEC (http://www.carbatec.co.nz/carba-tec-economy-mini-lathe_c19865) this (NZ$400) stack up against those two? Is it too small for bowls? The MC900 is NZ$699 according to their site, so a wee bit more. Also, when it says 6-speed, does that mean that you have to stop, and manually shift gears like the Dynalink, or is that what that black lever is for?

The swiveling stock is a novel concept, but I did wonder if it had it's own issues when I saw it.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I get it right this time!

In regard to the mini lathe......I run a jet Mini lathe..the one they all coppied, and yes you will swing bowls on it...but not big ones and ya not going to hoe into blanks with big gouges shoulders and all.

But there is a hell of a lot you can do on a mini lathe.

You can swing bowls and platers up to 10 inches...the roughing will be slow...but that is about where the problems end...I turn small bowls and plates no worries.

They are perfectly capable spindle lathes allthough you may want to either buy or contrive an extension bed...I have an extension bed for mine and I turned up a block splitter handle with plenty of length to spare...with the extension bed in place I get more between centres than many larger lathes that can not be fitted with an extension bed.

Hell I saw an article where a bloke was turning oars on a jet mini...he had the lathe bolted to a long bench and the extension bed and tail stock wayyyy down there somewhere.

If you are doing long spindles you might want to fit a long rest.

The realy big thing that the larger lathes are not, is portable......ya cant quite tuck a mini lathe under your arm but it is certainly realistic to pick it up, stick it in the car and use it somewhere other than where it stands.

I've seen quite a few people running them on those $60 aluminium tressel things..they seem a good match.

AND if ya skint for space, you could easily tuck it under the kitchen sink or behind the lounge when not in use.

Serioulsy for the money, one of the minis is not a bad option.

cheers

[Oiliver]

@Paul- I have been talking around, and my elder brother thinks he might be able to get a near identical motor on the cheap, but I am still waiting on that; we will see. If I can't get a suitable replacement at the right price, then I guess it is go for a new lathe. Unless I had some kind of assurance or was getting an awesome deal, I'm becoming more and more reluctant to buy secondhand again. I think I could feasibly go up to $550 by the end of summer (February next year), as I also want to get a scroll chuck which will set me back a bit.

@soundman- if this new motor doesn't pan out for whatever reason, the mini lathe is sounding like the way to go to me (for the next few years at least!) unless a fantastic second hand one comes up. It will just be a matter of pinching and saving and yearning :P

Thanks everyone for your advice, inputs and suggestions, you have been wonderful as always! I really do appreciate it.

[Paul39]

Oiliver,

If the cheap matching motor does not turn out, be patient. You want a slower speed motor for a lathe (1400ish rpm), rather than a high speed (2800ish). One can buy used 1/2 & 3/4 HP motors here for $5 - $20, 1 HP a bit more.

A motor shop may have a traded in motor. Any used motor that runs quietly for 5 minutes and does not get too hot to touch will do. The plate will usually give a running temperature, some run quite hot. Take your motor pulley when you go looking and if it fits on the shaft that is a plus. If not, a sleeve can be fitted or the pulley bored out to fit.

Knowing or learning how to make and fit equipment will keep the cost lower

I would be best to not buy a new, or new to you lathe until you have tried a few at a men's shed or had instruction at a place that had a variety of lathes for you to use.

Having some practice will also let you discover if you lean toward spindles or bowls and platters. The equipment for each is somewhat different. Getting to know some experienced turners will also get you acquainted with people who might have extra stuff to sell and someone to consult with if you find the be all & end all lathe.

Someone like that may have told you to look further when you looked at the lathe you bought.

Almost every turner I know is a generous person willing to help a beginner get started. This site leads me to believe that folks in your part of the world are especially so.

Look at a bunch of lathes, ask questions of the owners, not so much of sellers as they might be a little in love with the product. Try to use some better lathes and if given the chance, a few that cost more than a nice car.

You can turn bowls and platters using a face plate. If you do not have enough thickness to accommodate screws, glue on a waste block. Waste blocks can be cut from wood pallets found set out beside skips behind almost every business.

There are some older books that show how to make bowls with one fixing on a face plate. Or an older turner can show you.

The older cast iron bed lathes are almost indestructible. I have a 26 year old, 20 inch swing, short bed Woodfast that I dearly love. An experienced turner can guide you to one of these old gems and check to see if it is OK.

Have fun with the addiction.

[soundman]

Oliver mate...this burnt out motor...are you sure it has burnt out or does it just not go?

Like...does it smell bad?

It may be that one of the capacitors has failed or the on speed contacts are dodgy.

A couple of simple tests.
1. Does it smell burnt?
2. does the shaft turn freely?
3. does it make any noise (hum) at all when it is turned on.
4. when turned on..if you spin the pulley manually will it run or even attempt to run.

There are proper electrical tests but the above are the simple farmers tests.

I just thought of this because, I'm fixing my compressor...both the start and run capacitors are shot and the on speed contacts are burnt.

The whole repair will cost me about $50 in parts......BTW I am licenced and qualified to do this.

I have had to replace capacitrs in about 3 of my machines......A case of crappy caps I think.

Just a thaught.

cheers

cheers

[Oiliver]

Wow, funny you should mention that, actually! When it first 'burnt out' it kicked off a lot of stink, and it was unbearably hot, I could barely handle it even with leather gloves on. But I had a bit of down-time after uni last night, so I decided to have a look at the inside of the motor, just cos I was curious. To be honest, I don't really have a clue about a lot of electronics, so I was just interested in having a poke about.
So I took it all apart, took the caps off with a bit of a struggle and tapped the shaft through (it did turn reasonably freely before I took it out). I had a look at the inside, and it doesn't seem to have any carbon contacts at all, but apparently some motors don't. At the top of the coils, there was a section which looked much darker than the rest, but to be honest it didn't look burnt per se. It had obviously gotten bloody hot in there though, because the plastic coating of the wires leading to the capacitor (? I'm pretty sure that is what it is, a blue cylinder thing that sits in a seperate compartment just above the motor) had completely melted.
I did try turning it on obviously when it first gave out, and I THINK there was a very slight hum but it was very very quiet? I can't be certain on that, cos it was a couple of weeks ago now, and I have taken the motor to bits so can't test it right now.
I didn't try spinning the pulley by hand; would that have potentially 'jump-started' the mechanism somehow?
As I said, I am pretty oblivious to the electrical workings of stuff, I only have a really really basic understanding! So from what I described, does it sound like it is not, infact burnt out? I have not heard back about that other motor, unfortunately. Could it be taking this down to the local sparky to have a look at be a worthwhile trip? Or just chuck it in the bin right now and look for another replacement, as Paul advised?

Honestly, I'm fairly in the dark about all this, being so inexperienced. So sorry if it sounds like I'm flip-flopping about the place a bit, I just want to make sure I end up not wasting anything, be it parts or money!

Thanks Heaps :)

[soundman]

Yeh its not sounding good....it might be worth taking it to the local motor rewinder.......he may give you an opinion and should be able to test what remains.

cheers

[TurnedByIan]

Oiliver, there's a Dynalink on trademe right now $150. Wood Lathe by Dynalinkk | Trade Me (http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=515399734)
Have asked at the guild, no one dared to confess they had one :o
Cheers Ian

[soundman]

damn they are a cheap nasty looking thing.....$150 that would have to be close to the new price wouldn't it :)

I think Id rather build a pole lathe and peddle the thing.

cheers

[Paul39]

Oiliver, there's a Dynalink on trademe right now $150. Wood Lathe by Dynalinkk | Trade Me (http://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=515399734)
Have asked at the guild, no one dared to confess they had one :o
Cheers Ian

I have two of those by another name, one was free, the other $10, both running. The free one had a broken and welded tailstock.

It is not much of a lathe, but if it is what you have and it will hold a piece of timber and make it go around, do the best you can with it until you can afford better. Do not toss it out as it will make a dedicated bowl bottom finisher, or disk sander, or grinder.

Sooner or later you will come upon a cheap motor.

I was in a used book store the other day and found Turning Wood by Ricard Raffan for $5.00. Another good book for beginners and has some tips for long time turners. It covers selection of a lathe, tools, grinding, mounting blanks, turning spindles, bowls, boxes. Lots of good information.