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gus3049
24th October 2012, 11:11 PM
My brother in law was a design engineer for Metal Box before he retired. Now he is retired, he takes it easy, as one does, by rebuilding old Rudge motor bikes, driving his Kawasaki around at great speed and racing his go cart. He is only 85 after all.

He made me an arm to take a Kelton hollower a while ago and its built like the proverbial brick outhouse. It has gokart stub axles as pivots and it is rock solid in use. The only problem is the old one of knowing EXACTLY where the tip is and I casually mentioned this to him when he and his sister came out from the UK for a long weekend recently.

So what should arrive this morning!!!:U:U:U
238337



Do those of you that have such a device find it easier to just line the laser up with the tip or set it so that it is the required thickness away. I tend to think the latter but until I try it I won't know which is easier.

I must think of a few more casual mentions:;

hughie
24th October 2012, 11:49 PM
Do those of you that have such a device find it easier to just line the laser up with the tip or set it so that it is the required thickness away. I tend to think the latter but until I try it I won't know which is easier.



I use my laser to [a] keep an eye on where it is when roughing out a hollow vessel and then[b] to turn to a predetermined wall thickness when finishing.

artme
25th October 2012, 07:41 AM
:? Wot's a laser? :D

Tim the Timber Turner
25th October 2012, 01:10 PM
I haven't got a Laser,: will a Cortina do instead?:D

Sturdee
25th October 2012, 02:28 PM
I haven't got a Laser,: will a Cortina do instead?:D


Should be fine provided it's in neutral else it might run away from you.:U


Peter.

turnerted
25th October 2012, 04:36 PM
I use mine as Hughie describd
Ted

gus3049
25th October 2012, 06:21 PM
I don't know, I ask a serious question and you lot turn it into a fun fest. Must be the sun down there.:~

So for Artme.
A laser is a device that emits light (electromagnetic radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation)) through a process of optical amplification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_amplification) based on the stimulated emission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulated_emission) of photons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon). The term "laser" originated as an acronym (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym) for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser#cite_note-Gould1959-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser#cite_note-1) The emitted laser light is notable for its high degree of spatial and temporal coherence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherence_%28physics%29).
Spatial coherence typically is expressed through the output being a narrow beam which is diffraction-limited (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaussian_beam), often a so-called "pencil beam." Laser beams can be focused to very tiny spots, achieving a very high irradiance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irradiance), or they can be launched into beams of very low divergence in order to concentrate their power at a large distance.
Temporal (or longitudinal) coherence implies a polarized wave at a single frequency whose phase is correlated over a relatively large distance (the coherence length (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherence_length)) along the beam.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser#cite_note-2) A beam produced by a thermal or other incoherent light source has an instantaneous amplitude and phase (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_%28waves%29) which vary randomly with respect to time and position, and thus a very short coherence length.
Most so-called "single wavelength" lasers actually produce radiation in several modes having slightly different frequencies (wavelengths), often not in a single polarization. And although temporal coherence implies monochromaticity, there are even lasers that emit a broad spectrum of light, or emit different wavelengths of light simultaneously. There are some lasers which are not single spatial mode and consequently their light beams diverge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_divergence) more than required by the diffraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction) limit. However all such devices are classified as "lasers" based on their method of producing that light: stimulated emission. Lasers are employed in applications where light of the required spatial or temporal coherence could not be produced using simpler technologies. Which is why its so relevant to the turning community.

As for the rest of you, the joke would be somewhat wasted on most up here as the Laser name was never used up here and Cortina is a nice place in Italy where they all drive Fiats - or at least they did when I was there in the 70's.

As for the two semi helpful replies, it looks as if I will just have to experiment and discover the best way to place the little red dot all by myself:sigh:, I sort of guessed it might be useful for knowing where the tip was!!:U

Tim the Timber Turner
25th October 2012, 08:08 PM
As for the rest of you, the joke would be somewhat wasted on most up here as the Laser name was never used up here and Cortina is a nice place in Italy where they all drive Fiats - or at least they did when I was there in the 70's.

As for the two semi helpful replies, it looks as if I will just have to experiment and discover the best way to place the little red dot all by myself:sigh:, I sort of guessed it might be useful for knowing where the tip was!!:U

Hey Gus here's a tip for, you lighten up a bit.

This is an Australian site where we make international visitors welcome.

There is a heap of top information avaliable here.

However this site is well known for it's humor and sarcasm.

Read between the humor and sarcasm and take from it what you need.

Good luck and cheers

Tim:)

gus3049
25th October 2012, 08:19 PM
Hey Gus here's a tip for, you lighten up a bit.

This is an Australian site where we make international visitors welcome.

There is a heap of top information avaliable here.

However this site is well known for it's humor and sarcasm.

Read between the humor and sarcasm and take from it what you need.

Good luck and cheers

Tim:)

Hi Tim,

I'm light as air. I thought my reply was as tongue in cheek as most of the replies but there you go. Humour and sarcasm (especially sarcasm) are as natural to me as eating and breathing so I should feel right at home.

The only time I can remember taking offense was at another forum in the UK who treated a fellow member very badly. I haven't been back since but I don't suppose they noticed.

My only reservation about the answers was that no-one actually answered the question about using my new toy!! I'll manage.

artme
25th October 2012, 08:34 PM
Thanks for the info Gus but I actually knew what a laser was. Just my way of saying I don,t have one

For that reason I really can't offer any help.

Have fun with your new toy and show off the results for all to see.:)

Christos
25th October 2012, 08:47 PM
I do not have a laser for wood turning a hollow form and as yet I have not even come close to making a hollow form. So what I will reply might be a little way off and will stand corrected happily.

When you set the laser it is done at the distance of the actual thickness you want the walls to be not at the tip. With what I observed at the Sydney working with wood show this can be set at anytime when you start turning and once you no longer see the red dot on the turning you should be at that thickness for that part of the turning.

The question does come to mind will I go down that path to create a hollow form? I have not quite decided as I am still very new to turning.

Do update when you actually try it.

powderpost
25th October 2012, 08:50 PM
A little red dot tells me it's sold and I amd getting most of the money.... :D
Jim

gus3049
25th October 2012, 08:51 PM
Thanks for the info Gus but I actually knew what a laser was. Just my way of saying I don,t have one

For that reason I really can't offer any help.

Have fun with your new toy and show off the results for all to see.:)

Ta muchly. Fun is what its all about. I was reading a bit on the WOW site in the USA today and it was getting all very serious about the Artist making no compromises with his art and its better to starve in your garret than just do stuff to pay the mortgage. Might be interesting to start a thread (if it hasn't been done to death here) and see what the take on the subject is down here:U

gus3049
25th October 2012, 08:54 PM
I do not have a laser for wood turning a hollow form and as yet I have not even come close to making a hollow form. So what I will reply might be a little way off and will stand corrected happily.

When you set the laser it is done at the distance of the actual thickness you want the walls to be not at the tip as. With what I observed at the Sydney working with wood show this can be set at anytime when you start turning and once you no longer see the red dot on the turning you should be at that thickness for that part of the turning.

The question does come to mind will I go down that path to create a hollow form? I have not quite decided as I am still very new to turning.

Aha, thats logical and is what I suspected. Its nice to know that is how its done though. Thanks. I've been using the fingers to judge the rough thickness and then calipers but it gets a bit difficult when you can't reach the bottom of the turning.

Have a go, its challenging to get a nice even thickness all the way down the walls.

gus3049
25th October 2012, 08:55 PM
a little red dot tells me it's sold and i amd getting most of the money.... :d
jim

:2tsup:

Christos
25th October 2012, 09:04 PM
I was reading a bit on the WOW site in the USA today and it was getting all very serious about the Artist making no compromises with his art and its better to starve in your garret than just do stuff to pay the mortgage.

Could be an interesting topic and might get heated depending on the stance of the member posting. But then again we all have opinions.

hughie
26th October 2012, 12:29 AM
Do those of you that have such a device find it easier to just line the laser up with the tip or set it so that it is the required thickness away. I tend to think the latter but until I try it I won't know which is easier.



Further detail on how I use mine. When roughing I tend to set it with a wide gap between the laser and the tool tip. At this point the its basically a ready reckoner on where the tip is while at the same time the gap does prevent me from making a funnel or two.:U Only on rare occaisions do I set it directly on the tip of the tool, usuallly when I am in a hurry and just eyeball the wall thickness as I go along, sort of near enough is good enough.:D

The next stage is final wall thickness, here I take the time to set it exactly to the required thickness. There is one thing you will need to consider is where the laser dot is in relation to the tip. IE 9.00 oclock, 12.00 oclock, 3 oclock etc. When I am going down the side it will be around 9.00 olock and sweeping across the bottom it will be around 12.00 oclock. This means that several settings will needed to complete the wall thickness.

So you need to be aware of where the laser is in relation to your tip as your finishing and not go too far. If your turning a large single curve or open bowl you can get by with one setting, probably somewhere 10.30 or so around. But by orientating the tool as you go down the curve to maintain the red dot and tool tip relationship you can use the single setting.

For me I dont do alot of such bowls, so its several setting for me and on some of the forms it would virtually impossible to use anything less than three. The side, under the lip or rim and across the bottom.

So in answer to your question I tend to do both and the variance is dependant on what stage I am up to with the bowl/hollow vessel.

I looked at the WOW posting on compromise and thought it was a bit of a waste of time. Waffle for the sake of waffle I thought.

artme
26th October 2012, 05:47 PM
Ta muchly. Fun is what its all about. I was reading a bit on the WOW site in the USA today and it was getting all very serious about the Artist making no compromises with his art and its better to starve in your garret than just do stuff to pay the mortgage. Might be interesting to start a thread (if it hasn't been done to death here) and see what the take on the subject is down here:U


Prepare for the ride old son!!:roll:

Jonzjob
26th October 2012, 08:05 PM
I can vouch for Gordons sense of humour, a bit/lot like mine and the first time you take him sseriously will be a mistake believe me:;:;

Nice photo up there mate. What is it, I ain't not seen owt like that before??:?:?

As a matter of interest if you used a Cortinal (as they call then in Bristol) you wouldn't be able to use go-cart bits would you? They be too small?

Some of those Fiats the the Italians drive have a funny likkle horse looking as if it's trying to jump off the front. Have you seen them, quite often red and in the garage getting repaired:o

My sister used to have a Laser when they lived in Bulangarook, that was red, but a bit bigger than your dot Gordon.

RETIRED
26th October 2012, 09:06 PM
Another little trick I saw once is to put a sheet of white melamine or ply on the bed so that you can see when the dot comes off the hollow form/

gus3049
26th October 2012, 11:34 PM
Further detail on how I use mine. When roughing I tend to set it with a wide gap between the laser and the tool tip. At this point the its basically a ready reckoner on where the tip is while at the same time the gap does prevent me from making a funnel or two.:U Only on rare occaisions do I set it directly on the tip of the tool, usuallly when I am in a hurry and just eyeball the wall thickness as I go along, sort of near enough is good enough.:D

The next stage is final wall thickness, here I take the time to set it exactly to the required thickness. There is one thing you will need to consider is where the laser dot is in relation to the tip. IE 9.00 oclock, 12.00 oclock, 3 oclock etc. When I am going down the side it will be around 9.00 olock and sweeping across the bottom it will be around 12.00 oclock. This means that several settings will needed to complete the wall thickness.

So you need to be aware of where the laser is in relation to your tip as your finishing and not go too far. If your turning a large single curve or open bowl you can get by with one setting, probably somewhere 10.30 or so around. But by orientating the tool as you go down the curve to maintain the red dot and tool tip relationship you can use the single setting.

For me I dont do alot of such bowls, so its several setting for me and on some of the forms it would virtually impossible to use anything less than three. The side, under the lip or rim and across the bottom.

So in answer to your question I tend to do both and the variance is dependant on what stage I am up to with the bowl/hollow vessel.

I looked at the WOW posting on compromise and thought it was a bit of a waste of time. Waffle for the sake of waffle I thought.

Thanks Hughie,

That is really useful - in all seriousness:U

The WOW discussion wasn't too surprising I guess. I think the site has its benefits but there are some there who take their turning very seriously indeed. I have nothing against that but its taking themselves very seriously that tends to get my goat (I remember one such referring to some turners as 'the brown and round brigade' as a definite put down, not nice). I consider myself an artist in that I have studied at art school, do drawing, painting, design etc etc, but its just another talent among many out there and I cannot, for the life of me, see why an 'artist' should be allowed to behave any differently than everyone else in the name of their 'art'.

When it comes to it, I would rather pay the mortgage and eat than starve to death in my garret. However, I did say I might start a thread on that but, as suggested, I might have to duck.

gus3049
26th October 2012, 11:35 PM
Another little trick I saw once is to put a sheet of white melamine or ply on the bed so that you can see when the dot comes off the hollow form/

Ah, now that is a good idea, anything to make things quicker and easier. Thanks.

gus3049
26th October 2012, 11:39 PM
I can vouch for Gordons sense of humour, a bit/lot like mine and the first time you take him sseriously will be a mistake believe me:;:;

Nice photo up there mate. What is it, I ain't not seen owt like that before??:?:?

Now now John, I'll have you know I am a very serious personage, I expect a bit respect as is due to my age, infirmity and the size of the shotgun I am aiming at you.

Which photo are we talking about?? If its the hollower, its not exactly an original idea, just built a bit stronger than most.

hughie
27th October 2012, 06:10 AM
[ I cannot, for the life of me, see why an 'artist' should be allowed to behave any differently than everyone else in the name of their 'art'.



Totally agree :2tsup: as they say, if want to have ago at me 'walk a mile in my shoes' first.
:U

As to red dots etc, if you were close enough I would say drop by.

Jonzjob
27th October 2012, 06:17 AM
Now now John, I'll have you know I am a very serious personage, I expect a bit respect as is due to my age, infirmity and the size of the shotgun I am aiming at you.

Which photo are we talking about?? If its the hollower, its not exactly an original idea, just built a bit stronger than most.

Well, I am truely glad to know that you haven't lost yer sense of humour Gordon! You serious? Next will be a Jewish Pope?:oo: As for age thingies? Are you still sending letters carved in stone?

It was the hollower that I were talking of. What's wrong with a bowl gouge? I would like to know as have never used one, the hollower that is..

Jonzjob
27th October 2012, 06:22 AM
Totally agree :2tsup: as they say, if want to have ago at me 'walk a mile in my shoes' first.
:U

As to red dots etc, if you were close enough I would say drop by.

Hughie, there is a basic problem with your method of having a go is that if anyone walks a mile in your shoes and still want a go at you they are a mile away AND they have your shoes:o:o

gus3049
27th October 2012, 06:28 AM
Well, I am truely glad to know that you haven't lost yer sense of humour Gordon! You serious? Next will be a Jewish Pope?:oo: As for age thingies? Are you still sending letters carved in stone?

It was the hollower that I were talking of. What's wrong with a bowl gouge? I would like to know as have never used one, the hollower that is..

A bowl gouge won't reach the parts you can't see, like under the lip of a hollow form. Also, if you are trying to reach the bottom(!) through a tiny hole, the fact that the hollower is held rigid and always presents the tip at the right angle, means you are less likely - in spite of the fact that I still manage - to catch the lip and crack it.

Basically, it saves a lot of effort which seems a pretty big plus to me:U

gus3049
27th October 2012, 06:31 AM
Hughie, there is a basic problem with your method of having a go is that if anyone walks a mile in your shoes and still want a go at you they are a mile away AND they have your shoes:o:o

And he says that his sense of humour and mine are the same:o:C:roflmao:

Jonzjob
27th October 2012, 07:48 AM
OK, I agree Gordon. Yours is just not as subtle and refined as mine :no:, but they still have your shoes an that ain't funny!!

I have been called an artist several times since moving over and it comes as a shock that the French, with their great sense of artistry, aren't refering to the glass that is normally in my hand. Normally, in the U.K. it was directed at that particular item :B

gus3049
7th November 2012, 06:24 AM
This little cherry from is made from an offcut from goblet making as it had a knot in the wrong place - now it doesn't!!

Proves the tool is good though, makes hollowing a doddle and saves a huge amount of time. Because I can see where the tip is all the time, the finish on the inside is easy too. This is too small to get much in to sand so its left straight from the tool.
239844

Drillit
7th November 2012, 02:44 PM
I agree with Hughie - the answer here is both and I have the same system as him. Drillit.

artme
7th November 2012, 03:08 PM
You wear a hole in that piece with your red dot?:D:p

gus3049
7th November 2012, 07:06 PM
you wear a hole in that piece with your red dot?:d:p

:rolleyes::)