Purchasing Wood for Turning

[Big A]

I was perusing the American site "Woodworkingtalk.com" today and in the "Best Timber for Turning" thread, the OP stated about cocobolo that, "That will be one of my next purchases". Purchase?? What you talkin' about, Willis?

"Purchase" as in buying, I guess. What a novel idea. Is this an American wood turning thing, or do Australian wood turners do it too?

I am only a novice in this game, but I reckon if it ain't free, it ain't good enough to turn!

Cheers,
"A".

[Cliff Rogers]

Free is good, I have however, bought & sold timber for turning.... not just an old bit of pine or a gum tree & I have never bought or sold a lump of mango timber but, some of the nicer stuff that is hard to get in your area is worth paying for.

[TTIT]

Being raised by a bloke that filled a 1/2 acre block with logs stacked 6 foot high left me thinking the same thing before I joined the forum and met people that didn't have much choice. A lot of the blokes in the smoke don't have access to easy timber like we do, nor the room to process and store it. I did actually buy a log once but I usually just trade what I collect myself to get the species I can't get with a chainsaw :U

[dr4g0nfly]

It would appear that you have more liberty with chainsaws and wild trees than we do. Just going out and 'helping ourselves' to woodland trees is mostly frowned upon.

However the sound of a chainsaw always attracts and making friends with the local council Parks Authority or Tree Surgeons usually pays dividends, along with that universal saying - 'Buy yourself a drink.'

[rsser]

When I started I only ever bought blanks face-to-face. Some woods are good to learn on; others aren't, and a reputable supplier can advise. The blanks were all waxed, dry, round and sound - which meant they were ready to turn and finish and no investment in a bandsaw or chainsaw was needed. And there was a wide range of species. Not everyone can wander into the bush and score a lump of Huon or Tiger Myrtle eg.

[michael_m]

I haven't bought anything yet, I just harvest the urban forest - whatever is left on the roadside by people over the weekend.

I can't at the moment thought, I've run out of space to put it all!

[rsser]

Yeah. That's a drawback of a good find or donation. You often end up up to your ears in it. And blocking down isn't a trivial task. Swapping or sharing is the way to go.

[wheelinround]

Ssshhhhhhhhhhhhsss don't tell the yanks a fellow here in Oz is making good money selling Burls to them.

I have bought timber for turning Rosewood & Huon & Burl other than that FREE is best.

[hughie]

I tend to buy my burls, all be it reluctantly. :U But I must confess, usually at whole sale rates and it does involve a little more expenditure.
The rest I glean,swap,beg, borrow, and hassle my local wood loppers sorry 'tree surgeons' :U Plus I have several well meaning friends who keep an eye out for me and deposit lumps at the front door :2tsup:

[tea lady]

Might have to buy a bit of cocobolo one day cos it doesn't seem to grow round here. :S But also I feel that local customers actually like the fact the wood is local as well. I have found a local bloke with a few properties full of drying slabs. He is definitely on my xmas card list. :D

[rsser]

If you're into selling your work, a story attached to each piece often helps.

[Paul39]

I have turned up my nose at "store bought" timber. I have driveway, side, and back yard full of all kinds of timber, all picked up here and there. I heat with wood, so not all is for turning.

Two months ago I saw an exquisite mushroom made of palm timber in my local hardware and exotic wood supplier. Later a chunk of palm showed up, and after hemming and hawing for 3 weeks I bought it for $27.

Today I sawed off a slab and started a bowl. I used a pruning blade on a reciprocating saw, it took forever and dulled the blade.

I started with a high speed steel bowl gouge which was dull after three passes across the bottom. The carbide tipped Easy finisher did the job, slowly and with piles of fine dust.

See photos for the texture. The blade of the square is 305mm.

I'll start another thread for the palm bowl, so as not to further hijack this one.

[brendan stemp]

Is there such a thing as free wood.

I often get given logs but there is still a lot of effort, time and expense in breaking them down and drying it. There is the cost of the fuel and oil for a chainsaw, (you need to have spent money on the chainsaw in the first place), there is the bandsaw and the electricity to run it, the consumables such as blades or chains and end sealer, and then you need the space to store the wood as it dries. There is also the cost of transporting it from the location to your home. Perhaps a trailer is needed, these cost money. And then there is the waste. Just as an example, there is a redgum mill near where I live and the owner has told me that 20% of his quota ends up as top grade timber. The rest is second grade, fence posts or chips. And even when all the timber you have stacked and stickered is finally dry there will be lots that can't be used because it is cracked or perhaps the borers have got into it.

If you add up all the money spent on owning all this equipment it would come to quite a lot, not to mention the time. When people ring me up with a the offer of a log I do not contemplate it if they are asking some money for it. I know all too well how much it costs just to get it to usable boards.

THe only free timber is the stuff that is delivered to your workshop ready to turn. Occasionally this happens but not often.

I have tons of timber lying around my place but I still buy the occasional piece of wood. There are some species I can't get or then there are those very special bits of fiddleback or otherwise highly figured timbers that I can't resist.

[dabbler]

When I first started turning, I was given stuff by family, friends, co-workers, club tutors and of course I picked stuff up from the road side and my own garden/yard. But, because I didn't have any safe and convenient way to re-saw and prepare blanks I also bought ready to turn blanks from a local woodworking/turning supplier, TWW shows and my local club.

Although most of the free stuff can best be described as "ordinary", it serves a purpose. Because I was inexperienced, the same could be said about some of the ones I purchased too.

I've added to my machinery collection especially to prepare my own blanks safely and easily but I still need to purchase most of my timber because strangely enough, species selection is limited in Gold Coast suburbia. I keep looking for harvestable Jarrah burls but don't think one will turn up and while admittedly I have an unlimited free supply of highly figured ironbark through a family member but it just eats my chisels and saw blades. Besides, it's nice to walk out of a timber merchant with 15 to 20 different timber types.

Now that I'm turning pens, my "need" for a greater range of timber species has just increased.

[The Graintrain]

I keep looking for harvestable Jarrah burls but don't think one will turn up and while admittedly I have an unlimited free supply of highly figured ironbark through a family member but it just eats my chisels and saw blades.

Hi Dabbler.
Apologies for interjecting; perhaps then you'd be able to help me with sourcing a strip of ironbark, also being from the Gold Coast?
Maybe PM if you have anything you're willing to part with.

Jack

[dabbler]

Hi Dabbler.
Apologies for interjecting; perhaps then you'd be able to help me with sourcing a strip of ironbark, also being from the Gold Coast?
Maybe PM if you have anything you're willing to part with.

Jack

Check your PM Jack.

[nalmo]

I have to disagree with Brendan. Part of the satisfaction I get is collecting the wood, cutting it up, roughing out, setting aside to dry and finally turning the piece. If you look at it purely in terms of cost of equipment, time spent etc you'd be better off just going in to a craft gallery and buying a turned piece already made. It's like people who buy a boat and equipment to go fishing to get "free" fish. I get the satisfaction of looking at a finished piece I have made knowing I have been responsible for its full journey.

[rsser]

Brendan can of course speak for himself but I understood him to be simply saying that free timber costs - in equipment, time and storage space.

I agree with you Nalmo that there are satisfactions in being in charge of the whole 'supply chain', and in fact these days I can only source large bowl blanks via finds or donations.

As for fishing, some recreational fishers do their own hooks, rods and flies/lures but many simply prefer just to fish.

As for Big A's original proposition I reckon if it ain't free, it ain't good enough to turn! - my best turnings have come from bought blanks.

By all means use finds; they can have a great story attached, it's gratifying to give someone back a bowl from a bole (!) they've donated and the lumps may be useful to learn on.

[Bushmiller]

Is there such a thing as free wood.

I often get given logs but there is still a lot of effort, time and expense in breaking them down and drying it. There is the cost of the fuel and oil for a chainsaw, (you need to have spent money on the chainsaw in the first place), there is the bandsaw and the electricity to run it, the consumables such as blades or chains and end sealer, and then you need the space to store the wood as it dries. There is also the cost of transporting it from the location to your home. Perhaps a trailer is needed, these cost money. And then there is the waste.

Brendan

This is a very cynical approach of yours, but I happen to wholeheartedly agree :). It is a development of "Is there such a thing as a free lunch?" No: Not really.

If you already have all the gear then it is relatively inexpensive after you have deducted your fuel costs and consumeables and for many of us it is our enjoyment.

In that regard I also agree with Nalmo. In fact I have just spent two hours at the table saw cutting up a metre of grey box (eh...it might be white box...or a hybrid..nobody can tell outside of a laboratory) just under 150mm square. I first cut it out of the bush about 20 years ago. I have been putting it to one side for all that time saying to myself "one day."

Although it has a story behind it, it also has pin hole borers so in fact after all this time it will only be for "practice" wooden planes before I get some good stuff, which I'm going to have to .....bbbuuyyy :-. On top of that it has the same amount of figure as a concrete floor and also what seems like the same density.

As far as your turning blanks are concerned, go with whatever suits :2tsup:.

Regards
Paul

[TTIT]

I can happily see both sides of the argument. Brendan makes a living out of turning so he has to take ALL costs into account and try for a profit at the end of the day. For myself though, I fully agree with Nalmo - just love being in the drivers seat for the entire journey because I turn purely for enjoyment :2tsup:

[rsser]

Last time I got a trailer load, I roughly counted the time taken to block down the blanks inc. sealing. It was about half an hour for each. These were about 20cm octagons. So if I counted my time at a nominal $50 per hour that was $25 per blank. Add to that at least 25% for labour on-costs, plus more for insurance. Then add machinery depreciation and running costs, sealer and storage costs and waste disposal.

It's not a matter of whether you're a gentleman turner or a production turner - either way you incur costs. It's just a matter of whether you want or need to count them and pass them on to the recipient of your work.

[brendan stemp]

I have to disagree with Brendan. Part of the satisfaction I get is collecting the wood, cutting it up, roughing out, setting aside to dry and finally turning the piece. If you look at it purely in terms of cost of equipment, time spent etc you'd be better off just going in to a craft gallery and buying a turned piece already made. It's like people who buy a boat and equipment to go fishing to get "free" fish. I get the satisfaction of looking at a finished piece I have made knowing I have been responsible for its full journey.

I'm not sure on what point (the points that I actually made) you disagree. I accept that it is a somewhat cynical point of view (I would call it more pragmatic) and I'm guessing it is this sentiment you disagree with not the points I made.

I too love going out into the bush and sawing up some wood and I wouldn't suggest (and haven't suggested) for one moment that this isn't a satisfying aspect of our hobby. I also feel privileged that we in Australia can do this so easily compared to many other countries.

All I was saying is that there is no "free wood" out there. Whether you enjoy getting it or not, whether you turn for a living or as a hobby, it is very rare that we get free wood.

I suppose at the heart of this point is the comparison between buying timber from a merchant and collecting it yourself and the suggestion that one comes with a cost while the other doesn't. This is the proposition I disagree with and that is why I have no problems buying timber from the merchants even though I have access to ample supplies in the Wimmera.

[Bushmiller]

Brendan

Nicely put.

Regards
Paul

[Paul39]

There ain't no free lunch.

Some of us have more time than money, and some more money than time.

Some of us turn for a living, and a lot more turn for fun and hope to sell a few pieces once in a while.

I have been heating with solar and wood for about 15 years, it saves money at the expense of time, some inconvenience, and at times a lot of labor.

I have several years worth of heating and turning fodder around the house and I am always on the lookout for more. As I cut up timber for heating I set aside any interesting pieces for bowls, mushrooms, weed pots, etc.

I love discovering what interesting figure is hidden in crotches, stumps, and twisted trunks.

[dabbler]

Free is good, I have however, bought & sold timber for turning.... not just an old bit of pine or a gum tree & I have never bought or sold a lump of mango timber but, some of the nicer stuff that is hard to get in your area is worth paying for.Your post got me thinking. Given many "up north" have a take it or leave it attitude to mango (the fruit) what so they think about an object made from mango wood ? Do they sell to locals easily ? Maybe mango turnings need to travel a few thousand km south to gain exotic status.

[Mobyturns]

Your post got me thinking. Given many "up north" have a take it or leave it attitude to mango (the fruit) what so they think about an object made from mango wood ? Do they sell to locals easily ? Maybe mango turnings need to travel a few thousand km south to gain exotic status.

Maybe the nails, starpickets, rocks & water pipes you find in most back yard trees has something to do with it.

[hughie]

This is a fascinating thread and I dare say that every point for and against have their validity and its a case of horses for courses.

But bottom line is that 'turning' is the motivation behind it all and we do so according to our various resources and abilities and or goals etc.

I admire those who take the plunge to go professional and it cant be only the money in the decision. Also I am heartened by the success of this forum that suggests to me that art of turning is alive and well here in Australia and else where.

What the 'art' needs now is a greater awareness/appreciation in the community so all will benefit further and it can grow .

[Allan at Wallan]

To buy, or not to buy, that is the question.

When first starting out I tended to buy the odd blank because it looked good and my intentions were to create a masterpiece from it.

However my best decision was to join a club. I now have blanks of many shapes and sizes and really have no need to purchase any. I am in this position because of my willingness to share with fellow members. Sharing is low cost and brings enjoyment to others who enjoy doing so.

By talking with others, e.g. neighbours, tree surgeons, members of others clubs, members of craft groups you would be surprised how many offers are made of free or share woods.

"Free" doesn't matter when you create something special and it remains in your personal collection. I have a few items that I could never part with whether I purchased the wood, found it among the firewood or swapped with others.

Allan.

[nalmo]

I think that there needs to be a line of distinction drawn between amateur and professional turners.

Professional turners must certainly take into account their time (at a $ value) for sourcing raw materials, preparation, drying, storage etc. so I can understand why they may prefer to purchase blanks, as they can readily convert these into a saleable product.

Mere amateurs (like myself) take a different path. People have told me that they like what I've made and I should sell it at a market. My usual response is: You go stand there all Sunday, sell it for whatever you can and we'll split it 50/50. So far no-one has taken me up on this. I've worked out that even if I were to sell some items for what people have thought they would be worth, by the time you take into account the time trying to sell it, on top of the time to make the item, it works out at only a few dollars per hour.

I get fun and satisfaction out of making things and giving them away, that's all the reward I need.

Of course, if you're a professional, you have to look at things differently.

[Old Croc]

Your post got me thinking. Given many "up north" have a take it or leave it attitude to mango (the fruit) what so they think about an object made from mango wood ? Do they sell to locals easily ? Maybe mango turnings need to travel a few thousand km south to gain exotic status.

Hi Dabbler,
The other problem with mango wood, is that it is so variable in colour and grain patterns. I personaly dont bother with it, because I usually ony get one good lot of timber for each 10 trees cut up. i think it is to do with the type of mango that it is, I.E. common, Bowen Special, turpentine, peach, R2E2 and on and on. Usually when I get the trunks, no one knows what type it was so no way of doing a cross check,
rgds,
Crocy.

[Mobyturns]

Hi Dabbler,
..... I personaly dont bother with it, because I usually ony get one good lot of timber for each 10 trees cut up .......,
rgds,
Crocy.

Thats a good excuse to buy the good stuff & leave the "john west rejects" to some one else. :wink:

[Big A]

Thanks for the discussion people. The post was mainly tongue in cheek, but elicited some serious answers that added to my knowledge and probably made me think about pulling my head in. (Not that anybody did suggest that, but I did not think of the professional turners when I made the post.)

At this stage, for me, turning is about using a lot of time to make something that may be useful and/or good to look at. For others turning is about making a living. They need to get the best wood for that purpose for the best outlay, so that they can add enough value to keep the roof over their head and bread and dripping on the table.

Brendan can start with a block of wood and make something beautiful that he can (hopefully) sell for a lot of money. I could start with the same block of wood and end up with a pile of shavings, chips and dust and have a piece of wood with a hollow in it that may or may not look like a bowl. That is why I like cheap wood.

Horses for courses.

As for “If it ain’t free, it ain’t good enough to turn.” I recently obtained a good sized chunk of Phellorpha. It was buttressed and had a good sized crotch, so showed some promise. It had dried out a bit on the ends but showed no cracks, so I trimmed a bit off and end to see what it was like. Big cracks inside. I cut a piece of about 600x300x150 up until I had no faults and ended up with enough to make a little bowl of about 140 wide by 75 deep. Not much pattern, but when I microwaved it I got some nice pink stain. Warped pretty well when drying and weighs just a bit more than balsa, I think.

After all, this I think this chunk of wood is worth what I paid for it – nothing. I got some chain sawing practice and got to turn some nice soft wood, and to turn thin. (I have been turning dry ironbark, which is another story that I might post sometime.) Oh, and the little bowl in the photo.

The wood could have been African Tulip. Jacaranda and Poinciana are also light coloured but are better woods aren’t they?

[Jonzjob]

I know of at least one pro who doesn't buy in his blanks. He is Irish and a really nice bloke to boot. I spent some time talking to him on the phone a while back and he was very helpful. Glenn Lucas

Glenn Lucas wood turner Ireland - bowl production. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsq3w--rMhU)

He has a load of youtube videos on there and lots of them can teach a lot about turning and well worth watching.

I was once told that there is a pro English, I think, turner that spouts that if you start off with firewood then that is what you finish up with. That's what my tractor/trailers are. Beech off of the firewood pile and they will burn well, but I think it would be a great shame to do so.

As for buying wood. I just wish that I could find a place here that would sell me less than a bloody tree! I get the odd donation and when I do I always make something for the person who gave it to me, but most of my wood comes off the fire wood pile..

It is a great shame, but the Canal du Midi had 40,000 platan, plane, trees lining most of the banks. They were infected a few years back when a couple of tree 'surgeons' came down from North France and worked on them. They had been working on fungal infected trees up ther and didn't clean and disinfect their kit properly. result, 40,000 platan trees have to be felled! The wood has to be burned on site to stop any more spread, so there isn't any chance of getting any.:C :C

[Mobyturns]

:brava:brava
I know of at least one pro who doesn't buy in his blanks. He is Irish and a really nice bloke to boot. I spent some time talking to him on the phone a while back and he was very helpful. Glenn Lucas

Glenn Lucas wood turner Ireland - bowl production. - YouTube

He has a load of youtube videos on there and lots of them can teach a lot about turning and well worth watching.

Had the fantastic opportunity to see Glen demonstrate in Auckland NZ this year & to chat with him plus see a short presentation on his development as a turner. If you are into production bowls there is not many better than Glen, well at least he has equals like Mike Mahoney USA. He is a brilliant production bowl turner, and can produce a finished bowl in the time it takes most of us to mount the blank.

[Trent The Thief]

I was perusing the American site "Woodworkingtalk.com" today and in the "Best Timber for Turning" thread, the OP stated about cocobolo that, "That will be one of my next purchases". Purchase?? What you talkin' about, Willis?

"Purchase" as in buying, I guess. What a novel idea. Is this an American wood turning thing, or do Australian wood turners do it too?

I am only a novice in this game, but I reckon if it ain't free, it ain't good enough to turn!

Cheers,
"A".

Turning free wood is always worth some bonus points. But cocobolo doesn't grow that far north. You might find some in southern Mexico, but not as far north to where a US turner is going to happen upon any just fallen over for the taking ;-)

We buy a lot of tropical woods here and we feel fortunate to get them. We do get plenty of oak, cherry, maple, elm, ash, etc., but stuff like cocobolo, jatoba, ipe, and such, we buy from hardwood dealers who import and mill raw logs for sale.

[Paul39]

We buy a lot of tropical woods here and we feel fortunate to get them. We do get plenty of oak, cherry, maple, elm, ash, etc., but stuff like cocobolo, jatoba, ipe, and such, we buy from hardwood dealers who import and mill raw logs for sale.

And only want an arm, a leg, and your first born child for a piece.

I am not quite ready for $120 4 X 12 inch (100 X 300mm) bowl blanks.

[Mobyturns]

And only want an arm, a leg, and your first born child for a piece.

I am not quite ready for $120 4 X 12 inch (100 X 300mm) bowl blanks.

Really good furniture grade quality blanks of old growth Red Cedar & the like will set you back that sort of money here as well.

[Bushmiller]

Really good furniture grade quality blanks of old growth Red Cedar & the like will set you back that sort of money here as well.

Ahh, Supply and demand I'm afraid.

Regards
Paul

[Jonzjob]

Crikey Paul, I never thought about the first child bit ? What would you expect to get for it? I'll gladly swop my first for some decent wood :D :D

The main problem for picking up stuff here is that someone seems to own everything where ever it is? Finding out who is another problem..

[Bushmiller]

I'll gladly swop my first for some decent wood :D :D



That may have been the crux of the problem :wink: .

Regards
Paul

[Paul39]

The main problem for picking up stuff here is that someone seems to own everything where ever it is? Finding out who is another problem..

Looking up Carcassonne says a lot of grapes are grown in the area. Photos do not show much wooded areas. I bet a 100 year old grape vine root would have some interesting grain.

Going around to vineyards and leaving a turned piece might produce some wood. I am sure some of the old trees die and have to be taken down in the cities or along the roads. Find the people who deal with that.

I have also found some interesting wood in shipping pallets, good for smaller things and segmented stuff.

[Jonzjob]

The vines aren't left to grow old Paul. As soon as the crop drops they are grubbed up and young planted. The grubbed up ones are just left to rot in a big pile, usually in the center of the field. I have seen a couple of promising ones but the wood is VERY convolouted, twisted and not really solid. Really thick 'trunks' are about the size of your upper arm and, as I said, not really solid.

I made this into a table lamp for a neighbour

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Vinelamp.jpg

We are lucky enough to live in the biggest vinyard in the world. The only problem is that I'm tyring to taste them ALL!:doh: If you have ever herd of Minervios wines, that's the bit we live in :cool: :cool:

[Paul39]

I like that twisted vine for the table lamp. I have a couple of friends who grow grapes and one makes wine and the other sells table grapes and grapes to the Biltmore Winery.

I had not heard either of them mention pulling out old and replanting.

I'll ask about some old roots.