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brendan stemp
14th January 2013, 10:42 PM
Well I think I have finally found the grinder of my dreams with a price tag of my nightmares.

Tradesman DC Tool Grinder with Toycen DC Motor System - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PM8vhCcntEs)

I would love to hear form someone who has or has used one.

WOODbTURNER
15th January 2013, 02:33 PM
Wow! us$1275.00 plus postage plus import tax. Looks nice though Brendan.

jimbur
15th January 2013, 05:53 PM
The purpose of that grinder is to give me the excuse that I would have made a better job if I could have afforded it.:D

Pat
15th January 2013, 08:14 PM
$1300+ and you still have to have an auxiliary tool rest for turning tools:U

Mobyturns
15th January 2013, 09:21 PM
$1300+ and you still have to have an auxiliary tool rest for turning tools:U

.... and buy the jigs if you want them. Being over the $1000 mark certainly means import duty unless .... they sell the wheels seperately??? :;

China
15th January 2013, 11:20 PM
Just buy a couple of CBN (better than diamond for HSS) wheels from Jim carroll and fit them to a standard bench ginder,(For less than half the cost) you will find it will run almost vibration free ( most vibration is caused by the wheel) speed contol is not much use for this type of use, despite what he claims dust will be an issue especialy with stainless and plated wheels do not last forever

Paul39
16th January 2013, 06:02 AM
Or this: H7762 Heavy-Duty Tool Grinder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Tool-Grinder/H7762)

And just to stir the pot a bit, this, looks vaguely familiar:

T10010 10" Wet Grinder Kit (http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Wet-Grinder-Kit/T10010)

brendan stemp
16th January 2013, 07:26 AM
Just buy a couple of CBN (better than diamond for HSS) wheels from Jim carroll and fit them to a standard bench ginder,(For less than half the cost) you will find it will run almost vibration free ( most vibration is caused by the wheel) speed contol is not much use for this type of use, despite what he claims dust will be an issue especialy with stainless and plated wheels do not last forever

I'm interested in why you think speed isn't and issue. My thinking is (and I speak with very little authority on this) the slower the speed the less likely I would be to burn the steel. I have a CBN wheel and the have found it doesn't eliminate the danger of the steel burning if too much pressure is put on it. It was this speed control and the torque at low speed that caught my attention. The grinder I have that has the CBN wheel on it takes 13 seconds to wind up to full speed suggesting it has poor torque. It's a chinese Abbott Ashley (spelling??). THe CBN wheels are comparatively heavy and my grinder struggles with the extra weight. I know the Cruesen (spelling??) grinders are proving popular because they operate at half the speed of a standard grinder so to have variable speed I thought might be that much better.

Mobyturns
16th January 2013, 07:49 AM
Or this: H7762 Heavy-Duty Tool Grinder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Tool-Grinder/H7762)

And just to stir the pot a bit, this, looks vaguely familiar:

T10010 10" Wet Grinder Kit (http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Wet-Grinder-Kit/T10010)

Looks like a rip off of a Tormek including the jigs? Just change the appearance somewhat.

Paul39
16th January 2013, 10:49 AM
Looks like a rip off of a Tormek including the jigs? Just change the appearance somewhat.

Yup.

China
16th January 2013, 09:54 PM
To prevent "burning" chisels etc is a matter of practice and developing a feel for for what you are doing, and having a water tray close so you can cool what you are grinding, even with a slow speed you can still overheat what ever you are grinding plus beleive you can "burn" chisels etc. on a diamond or CBN, he also states that dust is not an issue, any body that has used Diamond or CBN will know that this is just plainly untrue the dust is also just as as deadly if not more so. I have been grinding every type of tool you can think of for over 40 years and all I use is a good quality grinder (GMF) 1hp or greater with a white tool room quality alox wheel I have grinders that have a motor speed of 2800 rpm, to touch up turning chisel takes 10 seconds and does not overheat.
In the video he easily slows the wheel with his fingers, I have a grinder set up with two CBN wheels I do not use it for woodworking, I would not even attempt tp grab it with my fingers as it would not slow as that one does.

I just do not think the cost is justified if I had a spare $1500 I can think of many other things that would come before one of those, I have been noticing recently that sharpening of if items is becomming more and more complicated and more and more expensive, and is just not justified

Mobyturns
17th January 2013, 07:35 AM
.....
I just do not think the cost is justified if I had a spare $1500 I can think of many other things that would come before one of those, I have been noticing recently that sharpening of if items is becomming more and more complicated and more and more expensive, and is just not justified

Definitely the new growth area in tool marketing. I agrre if turners are not into or confident with freehand sharpening I reckon the money is better spent on a quality jig system and learning to use the traditional grinders effectively. No amount of dollars will ever replace learning good sharpening (& turning) technique and lots of practice.

However in Brendans instance the CBN wheels do seem to have some merit, hes a skilled turner with a specific application. I have concerns about CBN's cost & longevity, particularly if used roughly. I like my traditional Abbott & Ashby with white / pink wheels and the Tormek T7 wet grinder combination.

I particularly like the wet grinders as they eliminate of a couple of significant hazards for wheel failure, eye injuries, burns abrasions, ignition sources and potentially hazardous mineral dusts.

robo hippy
17th January 2013, 12:22 PM
It is a very high end grinder, and made for sharpening CNC bits and cutters. Way more precise than woodturners will ever need. The wheels are very high quality as well, and like he said, about 8 pounds each compared to a little over 6 for the D Way and Optigrind 8 inch wheels. I don't have one yet, and may not get one ever, but, well, what does need have to do with it. I am still waiting for Stuart Batty's Omni Grinder to come out. More for grinding than precision sharpening.

robo hippy

Big Shed
17th January 2013, 12:32 PM
It is a very high end grinder, and made for sharpening CNC bits and cutters. Way more precise than woodturners will ever need. The wheels are very high quality as well, and like he said, about 8 pounds each compared to a little over 6 for the D Way and Optigrind 8 inch wheels. I don't have one yet, and may not get one ever, but, well, what does need have to do with it. I am still waiting for Stuart Batty's Omni Grinder to come out. More for grinding than precision sharpening.

robo hippy

DC Variable Speed Bench Grinder | CUTTERMASTER | CUTTERMASTER Professional - Cuttermaster End Mill Sharpener | Drill Sharpener (http://www.cuttermasters.com/portfolio/toycen-tradesman-dc-bench-grinder-tool-grinding-system/)

The grinder shown above is definitely not designed to sharpen CNC bits and cutters, these people do make a machine for that purpose but it looks just a little different:

Cuttermaster Professional | CUTTERMASTER | Canada | USA - Cuttermaster End Mill Sharpener | Drill Sharpener (http://www.cuttermasters.com/portfolio/cuttermaster-professional/)

robo hippy
18th January 2013, 05:54 AM
I guess like any good tool manufacturer, they have many 'accessories' to go with their standard toys. Dangerous to the wallet.

robo hippy

BobL
18th January 2013, 01:11 PM
Being almost more coffee than wood focussed when I saw your thread title I thought of this

http://www.mazzer.com/gfx/prodotti/Robur-royal.jpg
FWIW 900W, 900 rpm, and costs about 50% more the price of the grinder being discussed.

Ed Reiss
18th January 2013, 02:17 PM
I'm interested in why you think speed isn't and issue. My thinking is (and I speak with very little authority on this) the slower the speed the less likely I would be to burn the steel.

Brendan, your right about speed being an issue when grinding carbon steel tools. Too much heat will damage it. Not so the case with HSS.
When first I took up turning in 1982, I too was concerned about grinder damage to my HSS tools. Back then, we didn't have the internet, so I wrote a letter to Jerry Glaser (a metallurgist) asking him if heating up the edge will de-temper and do irreparable harm to the edge. I always used regular gray wheels on the grinder...didn't opt for any pink or white friable.
Jerry's reply put me at ease ~ heating up HSS to a red glow will NOT harm the edge. Cooling the edge with water WILL damage it (micro-fracturing).
Now, it's my understanding that there are new type alloys out that you do not want to heat up...I do not know what they are - someone with more knowledge than I should know which alloys they are.

Here's another source to bear this out:


From: "Ed Huntress" <[email protected]> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Flycutter from hell? (http://groups.google.com/groups/search?as_ugroup=rec.crafts.metalworking&as_uauthors=Ed+Huntress&as_usubject=flycutter+hell&as_drrb=b&as_mind=16&as_minm=5&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=18&as_maxm=5&as_maxy=2001&sitesearch=groups.google.com) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 01:28:40 GMT >>I remember spending several hours (over the course of a few days) grinding an HSS bit downto a .064" wide 'cutoff tool' 3/8" long for a particularly nasty groove that had to be cut.<< Most people are too cautious grinding hss. You can grind it until it starts to glow red. It actually cuts pretty fast when you apply enough pressure. So does the grinding wheel. <g> Ed Huntress
From: "Ed Huntress" <[email protected]> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Flycutter from hell? (http://groups.google.com/groups/search?as_ugroup=rec.crafts.metalworking&as_uauthors=Ed+Huntress&as_usubject=flycutter+hell&as_drrb=b&as_mind=16&as_minm=5&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=18&as_maxm=5&as_maxy=2001&sitesearch=groups.google.com) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:37:47 GMT >>I have always used water (usually room temperature or so) to cool HSS when grinding tools.<< Never, ever, ever. Change your thinking on this quick. High speed steel is tough stuff, but it can't tolerate that kind of thermal shock. Neither can most other high-alloy tool steels -- and the low-alloy and straight-carbon types (O-1, W-1) can't take the heat to begin with. I use water to cool mild steel when I'm grinding it, and I'll do it on woodworking chisels and plane-iron blades, which I never let get hot enough to show color, anyway. My good ones are never allowed to get too hot to touch. At those low temperatures it's not much of a risk and water dips speed the operation a lot. But you can't grind HSS very well without getting it hot. It can take the heat, right up to a low red glow. What it can't take is thermal shock. >>I hold HSS barehanded and fairly close to the area being ground and I give it a few swishes when I start feeling some warmth.<< That's fine for grinding woodworking chisels, but it's too dainty for grinding high-speed steel. If you can handle it you aren't applying enough pressure to grind it efficiently. HSS requires some pressure, which is hell on grinding wheels but it beats taking an hour to grind a threading bit from a blank. I hold HSS bits with Vise-Grip pliers when I'm grinding them. Sometimes I clamp them in a toolholder and hang onto that. I can grind a threading bit from a 3/8" blank in about five minutes. Ed Huntress </[email protected]></g></[email protected]>

dai sensei
18th January 2013, 08:41 PM
Yep, hot HSS and water don't mix, just asking for flying bits of steel whilst turning. I know ever time demos at any club, the first thing he does is throw the tins of water next to the grinder away. Second offence results in more specific aim when throwing away :U:U:U

NeilS
19th January 2013, 10:53 PM
Jerry's reply put me at ease ~ heating up HSS to a red glow will NOT harm the edge. Cooling the edge with water WILL damage it (micro-fracturing).

That's my understanding. Couldn't say it any better, and wouldn't attempt to do so, for when it comes to woodturning steel Jerry is the man.

Adding a little colour to HSS just makes it more colourful...:U

If anything, I would like my grinders to run faster...:rolleyes:

Paul39
20th January 2013, 03:54 AM
I use an 8 inch white Alox wheel on 1725 RPM grinder. I have several carbon steel tools that came with a lathe or bought in a box full of stuff at auction.

A quick one or two second swipe on the grinder will sharpen them and not harm even the thin small spindle gouge.

The thick blunt edge of a scraper will stand more time on the wheel.

Even if over heated a tool will cut for a bit, then need resharpening.