My greatest fears in a Pen Swap

[PenTurner]

Wow, some excellent pens and swaps here. It is very disheartening when your partner does not communicate;:( If you put your name down, then follow through, the other person will usually be quite ok if you let them know of hiccups, either health or work or etc. But to sit there and just wait and receive no communication is terrible,:( if you are going to be like that, DON'T sign up.
Honour your word, with an overseas swap we in a way represent ourselves and our country and our Forum, do yourself, your country and your Forum proud.
A word to those who just jump in to get a good pen but never really have their heart in it--please don't join in.
When you find a genuine swap partner, it matters not what you receive, you can tell it comes from the heart from the communications you have with that person.
So, if you happen to be a bit late, get to and let your partner know what is happening.
For the majority who have put their time and talent and heart into the swaps, thank you, it is deeply appreciated. Scott , thanks for the effort put into running this one.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup: :)Amos

[tdrumnut]

Wow, some excellent pens and swaps here. It is very disheartening when your partner does not communicate;:( If you put your name down, then follow through, the other person will usually be quite ok if you let them know of hiccups, either health or work or etc. But to sit there and just wait and receive no communication is terrible,:( if you are going to be like that, DON'T sign up.
Honour your word, with an overseas swap we in a way represent ourselves and our country and our Forum, do yourself, your country and your Forum proud.
A word to those who just jump in to get a good pen but never really have their heart in it--please don't join in.
When you find a genuine swap partner, it matters not what you receive, you can tell it comes from the heart from the communications you have with that person.
So, if you happen to be a bit late, get to and let your partner know what is happening.
For the majority who have put their time and talent and heart into the swaps, thank you, it is deeply appreciated. Scott , thanks for the effort put into running this one.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup: :)Amos

:iagree:

[Big Shed]

Thanks Amos, very well put.

Every year we run this swap there have been some disappointed people.

A few years back I instituted the rule that only people that are members of this forum could join in and I was roundly criticised by some for doing that.

I put in that rule because we had people from other forums joining in and communication was a nightmare. Since that rule has been in place things have improved somewhat, but we still get the "hit and run" people joining in the swap and I don't really know how to eliminate those people.

I also put in the rule that those people not completing their swap could not participate in future pen swaps.

Scott has suggested that we get the email address for every member joining and this may help, although from personal experience if people don't want to communicate there is little one can do about it.

Getting their forum name on their "home" forum is another of his suggestions. I am not altogether sure how we would define their "home" forum. A lot of the pen turners are members of more than 1 forum, for instance I am a member of at least 4 forums relating to pen turning.

These swap problems are not confined to this forum, I have participated in quite a few swaps on other pen forums and have been the victim of these very thoughtless people as well.

As for confining oneself to "domestic" swappees only, one can still be disappointed there as well.

Having said all that, the vast majority of swaps I have participated in have been a fantastic experience, I have made friends with some great people, received some beautiful pens and some really interesting blanks, so the good has certainly outweighed the not so good.

[PenTurner]

I get a little wary when our Forum is joined solely for the purpose of the Pen Swap and checking overseas on their "home" Forum shows the person has not really posted there either?
However my greatest disappointment was on the home scene where the person received the pens sent, but never returned thanks or ever communicated about their circumstances that may have prevented them from sending a swap pen.
Definitely, I believe the people joining the swap should put their email address and if here in Australia , even their phone number, send these privately to the co -ordinator, at the announcement of the swap partner, the co-ordinator then sends each swap partner the email and phone number privately.
It won't stop all the unwanted ones, but hopefully help those that do want to communicate and share and swap on a genuine basis. Amos:)
PS as for "home" Forum, people should nominate that if they are only casual on our Forum, example I am a member on the IAP but due to time constraints I am mostly active on this Forum, if I join a swap on another forum I use the same name and they can check here to see if I am a fly by night or a genuine person. One forum that I am a member of, requires your real name as your user name, I have no problem with that because I have nothing to hide. Amos

[tdrumnut]

I dont know why some people bother if they can't participate fully. I still dont even know whether my OS swap partner has recieved my pen and other items although the tracking says that it has been delivered, I have yet to recieve any acknowledgement at all. His mail box is full so I cant send a message and to be honest trying to communicate with him has been like pulling teeth. I have at least recieved my swap from him and promptly posted pics but from him nothing. Personally I find his manners somewhat rude. I must say however that my aussie partner was a bloody beaut.

[Sawdust Maker]

Amos

I cannot agree more
unfortunately there are those whom don't do the right thing.
I think there are those who deliberately set out to get a free pen and then there are those whom have circumstances occur which is/are beyond their control.
Having organised this swap in the past it is hard to say no to those whom want to participate. My swappee this year was one I let in at the 23rd hour a year or two ago.
There is also one member whom couldn't fulfill his side of the bargain a couple of years ago because of rising flood waters who's partner is still willing to go through with the swap (no pens were exchanged at the time).
Then there are a couple of people (the Aussies are those whose names stick in the mind) whom simply went off air leaving their partners high and dry, shameful conduct really.
I've also had a couple of people decide not to participate in future swaps because of the poor pens they received from their interstate well known and respected penmakers.

I put my hat in the ring each year with a bit of trepidation. Will I be ripped off? or will I receive a marvel.
I try and do a really special pen. This year I made 4 and sent the best 2. I started 6 the other two didn't make muster and the 2nd two have gone into stock.
I've received great pens from well known OS penmakers and I've received great pens from those who are relatively new to the art. (oh and I've received great pens from my domestic swap partners as well)

On another note what do people do with their received pens. Originally I had decided to keep each I had received and somehow put them on display. Now I'm coming around to the thought that I really should use them. I suppose when the time comes for me to join the big workshop in the sky, these pens won't mean anything to anybody else. (I might put this question for debate in another thread)

[Nai84]

Well I agree with all the above 100% I am in the middle of organizing a swap the Amos who I spoke to for a sort time on the phone today ;-) sorry about the sort conversation mate bloody real job getting in the way again lol and also Grommett aswell so let the pen making begin again for me and the guys away lol. I take my hat off to these guys and plan on chatting to Amos on Thursday on my day off so we can just chat without my real job getting in the way lol thanks guys yous are legends

Ian

[mach70]

Hmmm I do know that my OS swap partner got his pen (PM confirming it) and I received his, although I STILL havent photographed it to post it here.
But I am unaware if he received the blanks I sent. No mention of them in this PM and I did send a PM a little while ago asking, but no response.
I hope he did receive them as there were some nice ones.

Must take the camera round to the shed tomorrow and get a pic and post it.

[Big Shed]

I think we need be careful to point out that it is not only the OS members that create problems, as some people have already pointed out.

It isn't only people that don't send a pen and/or blanks that take the shine off a swap. It is also those people who don't acknowledge the receipt of a pen and/or blanks.

Not only is this very disappointing for the sender, who has gone to some trouble and expense, but it is also just plain bad manners:~.

Again this sort of behaviour is not confined to OS members, I have experienced this same thing from Oz members as well.

Considering the average age of the participants in these type of swaps one would expect better manners and more consideration for the other partner involved in the swap.

I make a point of acknowledging receipt of a pen as soon as possible and express my thanks to my partner(s). Unfortunately that has not always been reciprocated.

Like Nick, I do a certain amount of soul searching before joining a Pen Swap these days and certainly won't join in the PITH (Pen In The Hat) type swaps as I have had some of my worst results from those.

[Nai84]

I think we need be careful to point out that it is not only the OS members that create problems, as some people have already pointed out.

It isn't only people that don't send a pen and/or blanks that take the shine off a swap. It is also those people who don't acknowledge the receipt of a pen and/or blanks.

Not only is this very disappointing for the sender, who has gone to some trouble and expense, but it is also just plain bad manners:~.

Again this sort of behaviour is not confined to OS members, I have experienced this same thing from Oz members as well.

Considering the average age of the participants in these type of swaps one would expect better manners and more consideration for the other partner involved in the swap.

I make a point of acknowledging receipt of a pen as soon as possible and express my thanks to my partner(s). Unfortunately that has not always been reciprocated.

Like Nick, I do a certain amount of soul searching before joining a Pen Swap these days and certainly won't join in the PITH (Pen In The Hat) type swaps as I have had some of my worst results from those.

Hey Fred

Agreed I sent mine of to Trev (tdrumnut) and he was over the moon posted pics of the stuff I sent him and I did the same in return even spoke to him over the phone in regards to other matter and he is a top bloke and I am glad I got him in this swap and all my other swaps before hand ran smoothly no problems. I am now organizing some swaps with Amos and Michael so cant wait to make some more up for these two fine gentleman that both put there hands up Thankyou guys u are legends. Not sure what everyone does with there pens for these swap but I use my here at home and work I love it coz when people says wow thats a nice pen were did u buy that and I say this one u cant buy from office works lol and I tell them the whole spill of the pen swap and who made it and what it's made from and they are always blown away at the fact the pen is handcrafted. I got this pen from Dick (whaler1) last year that always catches people's eyes aswell as Trevs one he made me this year from his home casted pod blank ;-) I would love to tell another story from overseas but not sure if it will happen:-( but there will be two more aussie pens that will get there stories told ;-)

Thanks
Ian

[corbs]

Could all of this be put down to lessons learned and the new member maybe not being aware of the protocols of past swaps to a degree? For the people who have not sent anything there is no excuse, however new members may not be aware of the protocol of posting your swap and blanks received and there is no clear convention of how many blanks to swap. I usually articulate this in the contact stages but maybe add a couple of rules for the next swap:

You are to acknowledge receipt of pen & blanks
You are to post pics of the received pen & blanks
You are to send between x & y blanks with your swap. Final number to be agreed upon prior to swap.

I'm guessing more could be added but this swap has become a much bigger evolution from when it started. I think there needs to be a formalising of rules/protocols upfront for new members to be aware of. I have no doubt there will still be issues but it may address some of the concerns raised above.

[Big Shed]

Corbs, I don't think given the average age of the swap participants that it should be necessary to make a rule that states that they should acknowledge receipt of a pen, surely it is (as I already pointed out) just plain good manners?

As for specifying the number of blanks, I would be against specifying any number of blanks, it is after all a pen swap, not a blank swap. We have to be careful that we don't raise the bar, expenditure wise, as this would preclude some people from particpating.

I have often sent more blanks than I have received, but I have also received more blanks than I have sent on other occassions. It sometimes depends on postage cost/parcel weight etc.

One thing that concerned me about this years' swap was the double swap interpretation of the Dom/OS selection. That always meant "yes I am happy to do either" not "yes I am happy to do both".

It appears that this caught some other people by surprise too and certainly increased the cost for everyone. Whilst that hasn't worried me, I am somewhat concerned that it may have caused some concern for others.

I don't know what other people think, but I am not sure that this should be an on going part of our Pen Swap.

[Grommett]

I have been involved in the last two swaps. My reading/understanding was that ticking OS/Dom meant that I was volunteering for both, and that ticking extra meant that I was willing to make weight for any shortfall. 2012 saw me with 2 OS swaps, 2013 1 OS and 1 DOM. I appreciate the effort the organizer puts in to arrange this and I am happy with what I have received. I am in again for next year.

[Grommett]

Corbs, I don't think given the average age of the swap participants that it should be necessary to make a rule that states that they should acknowledge receipt of a pen, surely it is (as I already pointed out) just plain good manners?

As for specifying the number of blanks, I would be against specifying any number of blanks, it is after all a pen swap, not a blank swap. We have to be careful that we don't raise the bar, expenditure wise, as this would preclude some people from particpating.

I have often sent more blanks than I have received, but I have also received more blanks than I have sent on other occassions. It sometimes depends on postage cost/parcel weight etc.

One thing that concerned me about this years' swap was the double swap interpretation of the Dom/OS selection. That always meant "yes I am happy to do either" not "yes I am happy to do both".

It appears that this caught some other people by surprise too and certainly increased the cost for everyone. Whilst that hasn't worried me, I am somewhat concerned that it may have caused some concern for others.

I don't know what other people think, but I am not sure that this should be an on going part of our Pen Swap.

i just posted in the other thread. Please move me.

[PenTurner]

I think just plain good manners should be enough concerning the acknowledging of a pen received; it is a pen swap, the blanks are up to the individual, I think I have usually been given more blanks than I have sent!!, The blanks are just icing on the cake, MMMM!!! give me more icing!!!:rolleyes::) , if someone is genuine they will acknowledge and answer immediately if possible. However, sometimes it feels like "oh, well, got my pen, that is what I was after, back to my little no manners pig sty, see what I can scrounge out of someone else!":((
By and large, there are many great people out there, it is the spirit of giving and the spirit of thankfulness; Thanks to all who have given from their hearts, Amos:):)

[cookie48]

This is my 3rd year in pen swap and up to date have not missed on my swap. I will say one thing tho,there have been comments made here that are as hollow as the middle of a pen. I will not name names or anything but please ensure the comments you make are true.
I really enjoy the pen swap and would not miss it for anything. I believe that if you sign on please complete your swap. That is the minimum requirement. All else is extra.
My two bob's worth.
Cookie

[STONEPECKER]

To all the member that signed up for the swap and especially the ones WE (Thomas and I) are suppose to swap with. At this time, we have not sent out our pens to anyone. Reason being that we have had family problems (health and personal) that come first. We have in no way forgotten our responsibility to the swap and the members we have heard from.
As someone has already said, somethings are out of our control. Somethings have to come first. And the quality of our pens need to be to our satisfaction before we send them out.
So far, everyone has understood what has been really our problem.......They have given us their approval to have more time to send their pens to them. And we personally have decided to make it worth their wait. We just hope that in the end, they will like what we are doing.

We have not taken anything here personally. However, sometimes not having the facts means that someone is jumping to conclusions that are not warranted.
This being our first year in the swap. And, because of personal matters. We are running late. Thank you for your understanding.

Thomas and Wayne

[tdrumnut]

Thomas and Wayne, I dont think anyone here would have an issue with a swap partner either not completing there swap or as in your case delaying the swap for any genuine reason, the issue is not reciprocating and/or failing to communicate with their swap partner. I am sure that your partners will be very happy with what they recieve and that it will be worth there wait as you have done the right thing by communicating the facts to them and they are happy with that. However the fact remains that there have been some swappees who have not done the right thing by there partners by either not completing there promised swap or not acknowledging that they have received their swap.

[Nai84]

Thomas and Wayne

I understand stand what u are saying and atleast u have done the right thing and communicated with urs. One of my partners was tdrumnut and it was awesome to have him as swap even have his number now and I have since spoken to Trev on the phone about other pen stuff and I would have him again any day same with my partners I have I the past never had a problem and the communication has always been there so Thankyou guys for that BUT my OS partner this year failed to communicate and thats what set me off. It's not that hard with today's technology to send a email or text to say

"hey mate having a bit of some issues atm my swap will be late but I will keep in touch"

Its as simple as that and I am sure most of us would have been fine with that. But I got nothing I sent several emails that went unanswered even had to get Scott involved to get hold of him which he did we communicated for a few emails and then nothing again left it for awhile sent a email got a couple of responses and got told my stuff was leaving on Monday ok no worries that was this Monday that it was happening and still no response so COMMUNICATION should be the key as far as I am concerned so having said that I am about to cut my loss

Well done Thomas and Wayne for the awesome communication and keeping them in the loop and I am sure when they get ur pen it will be worth the wait

Ian

[Christos]

From my personal experience I have only been involved in two swaps and both times have been great to receive something.

BUT that is not why I joint the swap as I have the opinion that it is better to give then to receive.

If I do not receive confirmation message where to send the pen I would not be able to post the pen and that would just make me feel very sad. :C

[Nai84]

From my personal experience I have only been involved in two swaps and both times have been great to receive something.

BUT that is not why I joint the swap as I have the opinion that it is better to give then to receive.

If I do not receive confirmation message where to send the pen I would not be able to post the pen and that would just make me feel very sad. :C

Hey Christos

I agree with u on the giving bit mate ;-) BUT

Commuication is also a big part of the swap and with today's technology is not that hard I would be more then happy to wait with a little bit of communication

Yes I do like to receive as I like to the story of were the pen came from and about the swap aswell but if I dont there not I can do about it hey

Ian

[Sawdust Maker]

I reckon it's pretty easy - the opening preamble states:

"Please, keep in contact with your swap partner regularly. Delays do happen, so communicate if there is one. If something occurs where you cannot complete your swap (stuff happens), PLEASE contact your partner and myself and I’ll arrange another swap partner."

When there is communication there is no angst. When people go off air without any further comment than that creates the problem.

In this day and age with instant internet communication we expect an instant reply. I'm not sure that is really an appropriate expectation, but a reply within the week is probably appropriate

[Grommett]

I reckon it's pretty easy - the opening preamble states:

"Please, keep in contact with your swap partner regularly. Delays do happen, so communicate if there is one. If something occurs where you cannot complete your swap (stuff happens), PLEASE contact your partner and myself and I’ll arrange another swap partner."

When there is communication there is no angst. When people go off air without any further comment than that creates the problem.

In this day and age with instant internet communication we expect an instant reply. I'm not sure that is really an appropriate expectation, but a reply within the week is probably appropriate

What he said.

[justturnin]

I have received and sent both of my pens, long ago, but I am having a time getting confirmation that one was delivered. It is frustrating to me as I was pretty happy and excited to send them off and I have sent multiple emails asking if they arrived w/ no reply. I also tried to include some nice US blanks and some cast blanks. Even if they don't post pics just a nice email saying "Hey got the pen and its junk and I will use the blanks to start the pit tonight:oo:" would work for me.......

[DaveTTC]

If someone got left out I'm happy to step up and do a swap. I've missed out on pen swaps and glad to do one with someone if they like.


Regards

Dave.

[DaveTTC]

I think just plain good manners should be enough concerning the acknowledging of a pen received; it is a pen swap, the blanks are up to the individual, I think I have usually been given more blanks than I have sent!!, The blanks are just icing on the cake, MMMM!!! give me more icing!!!:rolleyes::) , if someone is genuine they will acknowledge and answer immediately if possible. However, sometimes it feels like "oh, well, got my pen, that is what I was after, back to my little no manners pig sty, see what I can scrounge out of someone else!":((
By and large, there are many great people out there, it is the spirit of giving and the spirit of thankfulness; Thanks to all who have given from their hearts, Amos:):)

Maybe the recipient died.

[Scott]

Interesting post started by Amos and one I missed initially. A lot of good suggestions and some well rounded debate. I hinted in another post that following up the organising is a nightmare (organising is easy). When I took over the organising the emphasis was on numbers members rather than quality. I'm going to start another post with some suggestions for the 2014 pen swap. Watch this space :)

(Please don't respond to this reply unless it's on Amos's original post, the new thread will give you a chance to reply to some of my suggestions).

[Sawdust Maker]

I have received and sent both of my pens, long ago, but I am having a time getting confirmation that one was delivered. It is frustrating to me as I was pretty happy and excited to send them off and I have sent multiple emails asking if they arrived w/ no reply. I also tried to include some nice US blanks and some cast blanks. Even if they don't post pics just a nice email saying "Hey got the pen and its junk and I will use the blanks to start the pit tonight:oo:" would work for me.......

This just proves what I've said before (both here and elsewhere) that the communication aspect is all important

LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING!

yes I know I was shouting !!!

[Scott]

This just proves what I've said before (both here and elsewhere) that the communication aspect is all important

And yet...