2014 Australia Day Pen Swap - Suggestions and Ideas

[Scott]

Amos started an excellent thread called 'My Greatest Fears In A Pen Swap (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f206/my-greatest-fears-pen-swap-170026/)' where some random thoughts and ideas were thrown around about what rules and registration ideas should be implemented in the next swaps. Fred (Big Shed) also expanded on some other ideas I had from another post. What I'd like to do with this post is to present some ideas for you all to debate. If I get a general consensus on some stuff, I'll implement them. In the past we've concentrated on 'numbers of people swapping' rather than protecting long term members of this forum.

Firstly (and this is my opinion) I'd like to get some 'genuine members' and quality into the next swap. That is, only allow members who have contributed an X number of posts to this forum. This will eliminate the 'hit and run' type of member swapping. It will also protect the long term member from recalcitrant, short term contributors. I'd also make it a condition of entry where you must provide your name and email address as minimum requirement. Of course, I would not abuse those email addresses. This will also allow me to send 'group emails' based upon an opt in mechanism to all participants. I'd also like to send a 'newsletter' to all participants. Gaining an email address from a participant will also allow me to communicate with swappers who don't respond to PM's (my greatest headache).

Some of these ideas will reduce the number of participants in the swap BUT, this will stabilise and add integrity to the swap and protect those who have been here a little longer than those who have contributed with one or two threads (registration etc).

In point form, these are my suggestions, feel free to add your own:



Real name and email address to register for the swap.
A minimum number of threads posted on this forum (20 to 25?).


Just to reiterate, only myself (and future organisers) will have access to the email addresses and only use for communication purposes. Please, lets keep this debate healthy. I will ask the mods to delete or modify posts which are abusive and off topic. Lets see if we can make this great Pen Swap on these forums even more enjoyable and prestigious.

[Sturdee]

Scott,

The person's real name, address and email address is already made available to the forum owners upon joining and has to remain current and there is an optional method of allowing emails from forum members.

Maybe a condition of entry should be that the forum owners is granted an authority to allow the organiser access to those email addresses. As a safeguard against abuse the organiser should be granted a Moderator status or be an existing moderator.


Peter.

[DJ’s Timber]

The person's real name, address and email address is already made available to the forum owners upon joining

Peter this is not correct, the only requirements on joining are birthdate, a Username, a valid email address and Location.

269612

[dabbler]

I have no issues with an organizer having access to my full name, email address or real life geographic address. (In my case, my real life address is easily determined by my email address anyway.) A number of fellow forumites know all these things already and there is no guarantee they have accidentally or deliberately divulged this info to others.

I have always kept a few "disposable" email addresses for use on websites that are dubious. I consider my gmail addresses in this category.

There is no reason people can't create a gmail account for the swap purpose and there's no way anyone would know any better.

For others who want to remain more anonymous, perhaps there could be a category of swap that was something like "complete contact detail unknown" and swapees could elect to be in this category and/or swap with another in this category.

My 2cents.

[Scott]

Scott,

The person's real name, address and email address is already made available to the forum owners upon joining and has to remain current and there is an optional method of allowing emails from forum members.

Maybe a condition of entry should be that the forum owners is granted an authority to allow the organiser access to those email addresses. As a safeguard against abuse the organiser should be granted a Moderator status or be an existing moderator.


Peter.

Thanks for your input Peter. Good suggestions. The pen swap was organised be me with DJ doing the moderator stuff, I think it worked well. I also think that Neil would like to protect the integrity of the Forums by minimising user access to sensitive details. Which is why I'd like to ask for an email address as a condition of entry. No email address, no participation.

[Big Shed]

I have made this thread a "sticky" so that it is seen by the maximum number of people.

Some points:

I don't see a real need for people to divulge their physical/geographic address, except to their partner. Quite a lot of people, myself included, have a PO Box mailing address.
Even if the organiser knows the address it won't help to make people complete their swap.
I have had several partners, not only on our swap, where we have exchanged addresses and the swap didn't complete.

It isn't necessary for the organisers to collect email addresses, these are already on file (through the sign up process).

I've never seen "numbers" of participants as a goal.

As for minimum numbers of posts, 20-25 posts is a rather high target, particularly for our overseas participants.

I don't think it is necessary for a moderator to organise the swap, even though I have done a few as moderator. The way Scott, and others, have organised the swap with backroom assistance from a mod (eg DJ or myself) has worked fine.

The number of swaps that people sign up for should be clearly stated. I have had several people commenting on this years' interpretation of OS/DOM as being a two swap sign up. So please ask people to sign up for OS or DOM or OS & DOM.

As was discussed in Amos' thread, communication is the single most important part. Without communication the whole thing falls in a hole.

There are probably some other points to be made, but this will do for starters.

[Scott]

I have made this thread a "sticky" so that it is seen by the maximum number of people.

Thanks Fred, appreciated :2tsup:


As for minimum numbers of posts, 20-25 posts is a rather high target, particularly for our overseas participants..
The issue here is that some OS users who have just signed on have a minimal allowance for PM's. Once they sign on for the swap, they don't contribute to the forum and are gone. Having this set amount lets regular users get to know the participant and to a certain extent, trust them. What's the number of posts a user has to make before they get the full allowance of PM's? I sent close to 50-60 PM's to users last swap, close to 50% were rejected because the in box was full and the other 40%, the user ignored the PM. When I did have the user's email address, nearly 100% of the time the user replied.


The number of swaps that people sign up for should be clearly stated. I have had several people commenting on this years' interpretation of OS/DOM as being a two swap sign up. So please ask people to sign up for OS or DOM or OS & DOM.
Yup, big problem and in part my fault. I think the original call for swaps wasn't clear enough. I'll work on this one and it will be clearer next time.


As was discussed in Amos' thread, communication is the single most important part. Without communication the whole thing falls in a hole.
What a nightmare, I think the biggest single problem with the last swap were people not communicating. Don't know how to fix this. See my response above for email addresses.

[Sturdee]

Peter this is not correct, the only requirements on joining are birthdate, a Username, a valid email address and Location.


Sorry guys for the misinformation. I thought the correct name and address was necessary but it's been a long time ago that I joined.

Peter.

[tdrumnut]

My personal opinion is that all participants meet the same qualifying requirements that the monthly free give-away draw has. This would stop people joining up at the last minute just to get into the swap. But I would also like all participants to acknowledge in there sign up post that they are agreeing to abide by the rules of the swap and that they make a commitment to comunicate by PM on a regular basis with their swap partner. Obviously this will not solve the all the problems that have occured in the past but I think it may stop some that are not really in it for the intended purpose.

[Scott]

My personal opinion is that all participants meet the same qualifying requirements that the monthly free give-away draw has. This would stop people joining up at the last minute just to get into the swap. But I would also like all participants to acknowledge in there sign up post that they are agreeing to abide by the rules of the swap and that they make a commitment to comunicate by PM on a regular basis with their swap partner. Obviously this will not solve the all the problems that have occured in the past but I think it may stop some that are not really in it for the intended purpose.

Good suggestion there Rumnut, worth thinking about.

[BettyBoop]

As a very new turner I worried about signing up to one of these - I have seen the $$$ value of some of the kits being exchanged and also Ppls skills and generosity, I would be worried that my hard work was not enough and that I had some how let people down by not "exchanging" similar gifts.

Can we have three classes / groups .... Beginner , Intermediate, Advanced or can we set a MAX $$$ value on the swap (at the end of the day it's about meeting people and swapping gifts ..Right.? )


I would also like to see everyone post a photo of there swap and maybe for the advanced group they should be made to make a kit-less pen... HaHa...:D

[Simomatra]

As I am the original creator of this Australia Day swap, I see no need to pull the reins in on members that have only one or limited posts. this swap was designed to be open to the world and create new friendships, I do see a need to stop people entering that have not previously completed their swap after receiving a pen from their partner.

Number is not the main objective here.

It is a good idea to open it up for beginners, intermediate and advanced with people also choosing to swap witjh a partner of any skill. I think it is good to swap with anyone that way people get to learn off others.

It would be nice to have a more international friend taking part to celebrate Australia Day

That's my two cents worth for what its worth

[mlloy23]

Iwould have to agree with Simomatra,


I would hate to see the swap limited to people who don't post frequently on theforum.

I began turning with the Mackay Woodturning Club in Mackay, Queensland. TroyGeisler (mkypenturner (http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/41328-mkypenturner/))has been teaching me the art of penmaking. It was Troy who encouraged me tojoin the forum and take part in the Australia Day Swap. Thanking Troy forstearing me in this direction, I have made a couple of great friends this yearas well as opening the door to buy some specialised timbers and tools throughthe market place and other forum members.

I dont alway use the forum to post or comment, but I have learnt and taken onboard advice from other pen makers experiences. I have also used the forum as areference point to raise the bar within my own pen making skills and to striveto extend my ability to create a pen that I would never have thought possible.

Simomatra in correct in saying the swap should to be open the world and tocreate new friendships. My experience has been exactly that and I applaudSimomatra for his initiative in initially setting up his idea.

It is from the swap this year that I will be meeting my international swappartner in person when I travel to the UK in September. My correspondance withmy swap partners has been through personal emails or the odd phone call. Againnot through this social medias forum.

It is my belief that the forum should continue with Simomatra's initial intentof the swap respecting his intended purposes.




As I am the original creator of this Australia Day swap, I see no need to pull the reins in on members that have only one or limited posts. this swap was designed to be open to the world and create new friendships, I do see a need to stop people entering that have not previously completed their swap after receiving a pen from their partner.

Number is not the main objective here.

It is a good idea to open it up for beginners, intermediate and advanced with people also choosing to swap witjh a partner of any skill. I think it is good to swap with anyone that way people get to learn off others.

It would be nice to have a more international friend taking part to celebrate Australia Day

That's my two cents worth for what its worth

[DaveTTC]

Ive been involved in a few swaps on other forums, youve hit the basics on the head

minimum posts
real name
real address, physical and email

some personal details to be forwarded to the maker of your item can be good for a personalised item
some swaps give a time to make the item then a pic as 'Proof of life' then partners are organised (I don't particularly like this one but it seems to work)
Set a rule about communication, updates about progress etc. If the recipient does not know who is sending them their item then communication would need to be to the organiser. Some swaps are straight swaps, others are a rotation swap where you know who to send to but do not know who is sending to you till it arrives.
I like the mystery swap

On other forums where we had the mystery swap someone kept tabs of who had received what and from whom till all had be recieved. Also recorded was when someone had sent there item.

Pictures were posted as soon as practical after the item was recieved.

[mkypenturner]

hopefully with this discussion/argument doesn't turn any of the current or new members from joining in these swaps , sorry to offend anybody but as mostly woodturning has always had the old persons name attached , but I know that there is now a lot more younger taking it up male and female but there is always going to be some that have limited computer skills my mother is 82 and I laugh at how even sometimes she can't even find the cursor on the screen and thanks mez aka ( mlloy23 ) for the kind words and yes if it wasn't for me pushing her to join the forum and join in in the swap to make her learn more and challenge herself and guide her in pushing the boundries to create a great pen that when made that anybody would be great full in receiving and she did and it has made her so proud in what she has achieved and im happy that she has learnt from my skills and tutoring and has been able to learn from all threads and posts on here and if I can say one more sentence BRING ON THE 2014 AUSSIE DAY SWAP

[coffenup]

As a very new turner I worried about signing up to one of these - I have seen the $$$ value of some of the kits being exchanged and also Ppls skills and generosity, I would be worried that my hard work was not enough and that I had some how let people down by not "exchanging" similar gifts.

Can we have three classes / groups .... Beginner , Intermediate, Advanced or can we set a MAX $$$ value on the swap (at the end of the day it's about meeting people and swapping gifts ..Right.? )


I would also like to see everyone post a photo of there swap and maybe for the advanced group they should be made to make a kit-less pen... HaHa...:D

bettybop
It does not matter your skill level you only send out what you want an its then up to your swap partner. I have involved in 2 or 3 of the swaps and not regreted any swaps
Regards Michael

[DaveTTC]

bettybop
It does not matter your skill level you only send out what you want an its then up to your swap partner. I have involved in 2 or 3 of the swaps and not regreted any swaps
Regards Michael

agree +1

its about the swap not about how good the pen is you recieve

[Homeleigh]

I do no have any issues re personal details being made available. Lat year was my first time and it was a thoroughly enjoyable experience. Would not like to see it restricted. Lodging x number of posts does not make one a better turner.

[DaveTTC]

... Would not like to see it restricted. Lodging x number of posts does not make one a better turner.

I would not see it as a quality of ones turning but rather an indication of commitment

[Nai84]

Well I am putting my two cents in here

I think
Full name
Email address
Phone number

For registration this should take care of communication problems well maybe

As I was one of a few that had a partner that couldn't communicate this year. COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE it's as easy as that and like I said before with today's technology at your fingertips there should be a high level of communication going on. I was lucky this year even thoe my OS partner fell throw I still had a good swap with Trev (tdrumnut) and picked up 2 unofficial swap Aoms(pen turner) and Michael (Grommett) so this year I will proceeding with caution

Ian

[Grommett]

Yeah Ian, but I don't think this ensures success. This year my OS partner communicated right up until I sent my parcel. Then, nada! Next year I will be more circumspect, if the person has cred then OK. If they are new with no form I might just wait until they have swapped. On the other hand I will have probably forgotten all this by then and just go on trusting.

[DaveTTC]

I will have probably forgotten all this by then and just go on trusting.

yeah thats what i do

[Scott]

Well I am putting my two cents in here

I think
Full name
Email address
Phone number

For registration this should take care of communication problems well maybe

As I was one of a few that had a partner that couldn't communicate this year. COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE it's as easy as that and like I said before with today's technology at your fingertips there should be a high level of communication going on. I was lucky this year even thoe my OS partner fell throw I still had a good swap with Trev (tdrumnut) and picked up 2 unofficial swap Aoms(pen turner) and Michael (Grommett) so this year I will proceeding with caution

Ian

Thanks Ian, I was interested in getting some feedback from someone whose swap partner failed to deliver. It pains me for someone like yourself who put a lot into their swap to have not received anything back.

[Nai84]

Thanks Ian, I was interested in getting some feedback from someone whose swap partner failed to deliver. It pains me for someone like yourself who put a lot into their swap to have not received anything back.

Hey Scott

Is not ur fault mate that he didn't hold up his end of the deal. But I noticed that Tony was also partnered with so I did the right thing by my fellow pen turner and warned Tony and about. I will always but 110% in to my swaps and communication regardless of my swap partners skill level and now I have the skill to customize my pens I will do so :-D

Ian

[mkypenturner]

wondering if any / all kinks have been ironed out for the swap ??? and do we have still have an organiser ???

[mkypenturner]

wondering if any / all kinks have been ironed out for the swap ??? and do we have still have an organiser ???
?? any news ??

[DaveTTC]

?? any news ??

Looks like we need a new player to step up to bat


Dave

The Turning Cowboy

[PenTurner]

I believe that the majority of Aussies have been genuine and generous in their swaps, mind you, I have been jipped by an Aussie!!!!.
I am a member of two other Forums, one you can use an ALias suck as "PenTurner", the other, your full name appears and no Alias, I tend to use the Forum that my full name appears, and the other people's names appear, I like the open and honest approach.
BettyBoop made a comment that many newbie turners make--"I am not good enough", answer, you can only produce that which you are up to, we try our best and that is all that should be required; we make friends and we can communicate, there is rarely a good excuse for NOT communicating.
Usually, it is because you don't really care about the other person, plain good manners requires recipricating exchange of communication--that is--if they say hello--- you ought to say hello back- if they ask a question we ought to respond.
I think some just put their name in just to get a pen! and that frustrates genuine people, as can be seen from some of the comments.
It is very hard to safe guard, no matter how many rules, their is ONE rule that would definitely be a great safeguard and would ensure that only genuine people take part, that rule I do not think we will have,--You PAY $50 into a TRUST Fund - and when your partner receives the pen it is returned to you!!!! That would definitely increase communication!!!
Apart from that, only Trusted members of another Forum should take part, how do you know if they are trusted, just look at how many posts and the input they have provided on their own Forum! It is a concern when you get teamed up with a person that only has 1 post in their own Forum!!!
Having said that, just because you are new does not mean you are not genuine, we all started off as newbies!

I believe that:-

1. The organizer should be given
a. the real name
b. real address
c. real phone number
Of the people wanting to take part, only their Alias would appear on the Forum.

2. Unless otherwise vouched for, you should be a contributing existing member of another Forum, or our own Forum.

3. That former members who have not communicated or not completed swaps should be named, unless there were Genuine Reasons.
example, THESE MEMBERS CANNOT TAKE PART--1. ABC
2. DEF
3. etc, etc
Why should genuine participants be put through the agony that non genuine people give.:((

Finally, I have made good friends through the Forum, but once bitten twice shy.

Amos:)
PS. if I have said anything wrong or hurtful please let me know, I will get the moderator to eliminate it, thanks Amos:)

[DaveTTC]

Amos - does that mean your in



Dave

The Turning Cowboy

[PenTurner]

Dave, I will speak to the Moderators and some of the past organizers, ask their opinion, and then will give an answer. Amos:)

[DaveTTC]

If no one wants to organise it I'm happy to do it. I've been involved with a couple of swaps on other forums. They are fun and rewarding.


Dave

The Turning Cowboy

[Christos]

If no one wants to organise it I'm happy to do it. I've been involved with a couple of swaps on other forums. They are fun and rewarding.


Dave

The Turning Cowboy

Just in case you have not seen this. :q

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f206/2014-australia-day-pen-swap-invitation-participate-179548/

Scott is organising it.


And only 10 minutes after you posted. :U

[DaveTTC]

Just in case you have not seen this. :q

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f206/2014-australia-day-pen-swap-invitation-participate-179548/

Scott is organising it.


And only 10 minutes after you posted. :U

Thank you. No I did not see it but about to now ;)


Dave

The Turning Cowboy