ebay

[goat]

HI i was looking on ebay for a mujifang plane was going to bid on the one thats being auctioned at the moment and just before i bid on it, the previous bidders name looked similar to a member on this forum so i sent a private message to see if it was him and he confermed my suspitions so not wanting to push up the price on him i'll bid on the next one that comes along .we thought if it was some thing we could do here for forum members post that we're bidding on some thing so other members would refrain from bidding on that particular item so keeping the price down .But is this ethical or not ? is it akin to insider trading or just helping other forum members out? i would like to hear peoples opinions on this .

[Wongo]

I cant see anything wrong with it.

[echnidna]

So how do we all do the right and honorable thing by forum members who are selling something on Ebay??

[ozwinner]

Huh??


Al :confused:

[outback]

I'm pretty sure this would come under "collusive practices" and would be considered illegal in the extreme.

Whilst i have no definite knowledge of the workings of Ebay, I do have a fair bit of experience of auctions in another field.
At the beginning of each sale the auctioneer prattles under his breath about terms and conditions being taken as read, and are clearly displayed at the site office at the place of auction. Then in a big clear voice you get told you aren't allowed to undertake anything which may discourage, preclude, prevent, stop, deter, or enter into collusive practices which may hinder the bidding in any way.
I think what you are talking about comes under this.

But hey, if ya get sent to gaol, I'll send a pancake with a file inside. :D

[echnidna]

Hear hear Outback,
plus if members make collusive arrangements on this forum it puts the very existence of the forum at risk

[Sturdee]

I'm pretty sure this would come under "collusive practices" and would be considered illegal in the extreme.
.................
But hey, if ya get sent to gaol, I'll send a pancake with a file inside. :D

But isn't Ebay an American site, as such, despite honest John :rolleyes: efforts, it doesn't have any jurisdiction here and thus wouldn't apply. So no file is necessary.


Peter.

[Coldamus]

You run the risk of having the opposite effect. i.e. alerting everyone to the item and then having to bid against them.

Besides, there's no guarantee that anyone from the forum will end up winning the auction. You don't win by being nice!

regards
Coldamus
(not nice)

[echnidna]

Or someone from the forum uses a different alias on Ebay so they wise up very fast.

[E. maculata]

I do what feels right, bugga the law in this instance. As an "ebay" family we don't bid against people we know, but there are about 19.99 million we don't know :D

[boban]

But isn't Ebay an American site, as such, despite honest John :rolleyes: efforts, it doesn't have any jurisdiction here and thus wouldn't apply. So no file is necessary.


Peter.
Where have you been Sturdee, Johnny applied for 52nd state status on our behalf..:rolleyes: Dont you remember, we didn't commit any troops to Iraq before the declaration of war either.

Seriously though, what if both of your want it really badly? Who gets it.

"Listen mate let me buy the unisaw for $500 and you can have the next one that comes up".............I dont think so mate....

Its nice to be nice but sometimes it just wont work especially if the item is rare or a good deal.

[Rusty]

I get where you're coming from, My highland goatie-oatie-oatie-oatie-oat (:D had to!) I was bidding on one recent auction, until the price went stupid, compared to recent results. I too noticed another members name on one item and chose not to bid. Courtesy.

Actual collusion doesn't feel right though. Too messy and apt to create ill-feeling if someone changes their mind.

Regards,
Rusty.

[outback]

So when an obvious forum member puts something on Ebay, do we decide who is going to buy it and cheat the vendor?

That makes for a nice family. And no its not different, the poor bugger selling the stuff is trying to make a buck like the rest of us.

[journeyman Mick]

It was me bidding and Goat was a real gentleman and declined to bid when I confirmed it was me. I would be happy to do the same for other members and told him so and mentioned that I'd been thinking about floating the idea, but I was unsure about the ethicality of it. Now that it's been discussed I can see it is collusion and isn't ethical. In a real life situation if we went to an auction as a large group and decided before hand who would bid on what. then that would be collusion and illegal. If I went to an auction with people I knew then I wouldn't bid against them. Maybe I try to be too much of a nice guy, but i reckon that it's untrue that you don't "win" by being nice. Be true, ethical and try to do good where ever you can and life will smile on you and you'll be a winner.

Mick

[boban]

Karma my friends ........beware

I dont think not bidding against someone you know is collusion. You're not obliged to act in the Vendors best interests but rather your own.

I think trying to screw anyone is downright unethical. However for me its all a matter of whats in your mind. In the legal world they call it "mens rea". For most crimes, no mens rea = no crime.

So what's on your mind ..........or better still, your conscience.

[namtrak]

I'm pretty sure this would come under "collusive practices" and would be considered illegal in the extreme.

Whilst i have no definite knowledge of the workings of Ebay, I do have a fair bit of experience of auctions in another field.
At the beginning of each sale the auctioneer prattles under his breath about terms and conditions being taken as read, and are clearly displayed at the site office at the place of auction. Then in a big clear voice you get told you aren't allowed to undertake anything which may discourage, preclude, prevent, stop, deter, or enter into collusive practices which may hinder the bidding in any way.
I think what you are talking about comes under this.

But hey, if ya get sent to gaol, I'll send a pancake with a file inside. :D

Not at all. If my neighbour and I are looking at a house across the road and he says he is going to bid on it, and I then tell him I wont be bidding on it because I dont want to compete with him - then I am pretty sure we haven't broken any law. This has happened quite a bit in our local neighbourhood.

Likewise if I tell my neighbour I am going to bid on a house across the road and he decides not to bid on it, but doesn't tell me - then same deal.

And if I tell my neighbour that I am going to bid on a house across the road and he bids on it anyway - then more the fool me!!!

However, if my neighbour is selling his house and I tell him I will bid on it, just to help him get a higher price - then I reckon we may end up working for the Queen.

[silentC]

I don't think it's collusion. Getting your mates to bid on your items with no intention to sell to them in order to push up the price is collusion. I saw an item once that I was interested in but a forum member had bid on it, so I forgot about it. Ebay and vendors might get upset if we had an "I saw it first" forum, so maybe it's not a great idea. I reckon if you want to play nice, register on ebay with your forum name. If not, every man (or woman) for his (or her) self.

[MathewA]

I think it comes down to looking out for those you like and I think everyone around here, for the most part, likes everyone else. There is no law in such situations worth worrying about, that's just arguing semantics. Ebay is world wide, one person deciding to not bid isn't going to affect the out come at all.

[Art]

I recall another forum (nothing to do with workworking) where this practise was commonplace.


There was a section where people posted they they wanted to bid on the item and no others (in theory) would bid against them. If the price went too high they went back to the forum and stated as such and another might take on the mantle.

In the same section anyone on the forum who placed an item on eBay stated as such and it was known that that auction was a free-for-all.

They seemed pretty happy and had been doing it for years IIRC.

[doug the slug]

i think that what Goat and Mick did in recognising eachother end sorting it out by private emails was teh right and proper thing to do. work it out on an individual case basis. maybe 2 forum members are happy to bid each other into bankruptcy for a rare and valuable item and next week one might back off and not outbid the other. we already have the facility here for pm and email so lets use it on a case by case basis. that way its probably legal and ethical and at the end of the day everyone wont be happy but it will be fair

[echnidna]

If I see something on Ebay that I want or need I will bid to my top dollar limit.

I usually don't bother to see who else is bidding I just put my price on it.

If another forum member misses out then they were just not prepared to pay as much money for it as I was.

If I miss out then I didn't offer enough money!!!!

That is how Auctions work

[fxst]

Your method is the same as mine Bob. I check the postage cost and then allow for that with my bid as I usually have some idea of cost of the item. If it goes higher then good luck to the new bidder.
Pete

[MajorPanic]

I'm pretty sure this would come under "collusive practices" and would be considered illegal in the extreme.

& being Australian this would inhibit you how exactly?

The CRIME of "collusive practices" & "insider trading" is being caught! It is also known as Stupidity!

You would be naive in the extreme to think it dosen't go on every day in business. Restraint is the key to not getting caught, people don't like snouts in the trough for too long.

As has been stated by some of our wealthy members of society "anything is legal as long as you don't get caught" ;) :rolleyes:

[echnidna]

They catch high flying cheats despite the best legal teams money can buy.
They also catch low flyers too!!!

I reckon the cops and other enforcers would feel very satisfied thay nail the guilty person (aka smartass)

[Clinton1]

My solution:
Since I'm pretty much starting out, leave all the good deals to me. You lot can fight over all the cr*p. In fact, to start off, you can all just send me you favourite tools as a gesture of goodwill.
Or do what Goat and Mick did.

[corbs]

In the legal world they call it "mens rea". For most crimes, no mens rea = no crime.


Its sorted then... dont bid against men named ray and its all above board:D