ROUGHTING GOUGES *** this may be war Talk***

[nz_carver]

So been doing a lot of spindle work over the last to weeks
It got me thinking about roughing gouges and one big question what makes a good roughing gouge and what do you look for in a roughing gouge??

I have 2 one is a small Sorby and the other is a large open fluted roughing gouge don't have a makers mark but told it came from the same guy that use to make the UNI Jig I love it its my first pick.

[shedbound]

Hi Dave, I have found as I've become more competent I find I tend to grab the skew more often than not to go from square to round.
regards
Joel

[Pat]

NZ, you've seen my Roughing Gouge, P&N. Does the job, no matter the type of timber.

[nz_carver]

I had a hamlet 1 3/4 inch U shape roughing gouge but I it sat on my shelf for over 12 months
never used it so I gave it to a good home were it gets used alot.

[issatree]

Hi Dave,
Well I'll stir the pot.
Just can't take to those Bent pieces of steel, is it steel ?.

I have 3 R/Gouges but my best one is the 25mm. P&N,& it is Machined out of a big hunk of HSS. Yes, Got a bit of Guts in it.

My Other Big one is also P&N, & there are not to many of these around. It is Bent as well, BUT, it is 40 x 10mm. one big Mother, & great to use.

My Little one is an older Greaves Rectangular, most likely a Spindle Gouge, but quite thick, as the older tools were.
I use it for small spindle work & is a fine tool, but has to be sharpened a bit more as it is Carbon Steel.

[powderpost]

Hi Dave, I have found as I've become more competent I find I tend to grab the skew more often than not to go from square to round.
Joel, the use of a skew as a roughing gouge can be quite dangerous. It will produce fairly large splinters with a very sharp point that will penetrate skin deeply and quickly. In competent hands, a skew can produce a wide variety of shapes. I sometimes use a skew for roughing timber up to about 15mm square, but that's it.
Jim

[chuck1]

ive got 3 a 25mm p&n for most roughing out and some detail work, a Henry Taylor hs34 small to medium work! and the big old p&n for big jobs post etc! use the p&n 's mostly! the odd time where I have used just the skew turning 100's of tapered plugs for the Navy.

[mick61]

has the ultimate roughing gouge show us a pic please .
Mic:D

[nz_carver]

has the ultimate roughing gouge show us a pic please .
Mic:D
That's a bit like saying likes cups of tea lol

I know Robbos got a large range of roughing gouges
I think last time I was there I counted 137 turning tools it's more of a toy shop for woodturners.

[Mobyturns]

I couldn't enjoy turning without my spindle roughing gouges 25mm & 32mm Hamlets & 25mm P&N. The P&N is the much stronger spindle roughing for roughing down with its machined flute from solid bar and robust tang design, however I use my Hamlets as finishing tools as well for spindle work with slow curves on swells etc. The U's wings act like a skew or more correctly a bedan in profile, so if well sharpened & honed produce a finish almost as good as a skew in skilled hands. (like Jim's - powder post).

[Scott]

So, there's been a lot of chatter about brands but no one has said why. A bit like saying my car is best because it's a Holden. So, what's good about your roughing gouge? Is it the flute shape, the way it holds it's edge? Etcetera, etcetera.

To me, a roughing gouge is a roughing gouge, no matter what shape. I've got two, one of which is a Sorby and the other from McJing's. The McJing I ground to my own angle and made my own handle (we're all good at spindle turning, aren't we?)

I have absolutely no preference for brand however a roughing gouge is as only as good as it's edge. That is, it has to be sharp. And for that the Tormek is king. I like my edges surgically sharp :)

[jimbur]

The U's wings act like a skew or more correctly a bedan in profile, so if well sharpened & honed produce a finish almost as good as a skew in skilled hands. (like Jim's - powder post).
I use the wings too. It has the extra advantage of evening up the wear all over rather than being concentrated on the U.

[Mobyturns]

So, there's been a lot of chatter about brands but no one has said why.

Hamlet because that was what the local wood turning retailer sold at the time. The HSS holds an edge well enough for me & as good as the skew if I choose to spend the time on the Tormek. The P&N was part of a prize package from AWTEX and has proved to be very very usefull along with another prize a P&N scraper. :U

[DavidG]

Skew up to about 75 mm then P&N super gouge > 75 mm, because it is big and heavy.

Edit
The 75mm is wood size.
Skew up to 75mm square then super gouge above.

[Sturdee]

Skew up to about 75 mm then P&N super gouge > 75 mm, because it is big and heavy.

They are really big, I don't think even has them that big or maybe a decimal point might be needed.:U


Peter.

[issatree]

Hi All,
Scott, the reason I like the P&N'S is that they have a fair bit of weight to them. Even the Small Greaves is Heavier than most Spindle Gouges.

When buying a R/G as far as I know there are no Spindle Roughing Gouges.

So, Where does this Spindle Roughing Gouge thing come from, as the P&N 25mm. is Shaped more like a Bowl Gouge.

Jim McC, If you place the Skew on it's edge, Long point down, & make a series of cuts, then use the Skew, there will be no Splinters.
So a 10" / 250mm. x 2" / 50mm. I wood put 12 - 14 cuts in it.
Of course you rough with the Long Point, but I don't use all of the Skew. I keep putting cuts in until it is round, & may do more until I get the the required Size.

My Name is Billy not Silly, meaning you are asking for Trouble if you use all of the Skew's Blade.

[RETIRED]

Hi All,
Scott, the reason I like the P&N'S is that they have a fair bit of weight to them. Even the Small Greaves is Heavier than most Spindle Gouges.

When buying a R/G as far as I know there are no Spindle Roughing Gouges.

So, Where does this Spindle Roughing Gouge thing come from, as the P&N 25mm. is Shaped more like a Bowl Gouge. That was the problem. People taking up woodturning were using it as a bowl gouge. Very dangerous, DO NOT USE A SPINDLE ROUGHING GOUGE ON BOWLS. To see what can happen Why you don't use a Spindle Roughing Gouge on bowls. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOhHeyoZLaY)

About 30 years ago it was decided amongst turners that it should be renamed Spindle Roughing gouge to differentiate between Spindles and bowl work. The manufacturers still call it a Roughing gouge.

Jim McC, If you place the Skew on it's edge, Long point down, & make a series of cuts, then use the Skew, there will be no Splinters. Jim was referring to using the skew in the normal manner.

So a 10" / 250mm. x 2" / 50mm. I wood put 12 - 14 cuts in it.
Of course you rough with the Long Point, but I don't use all of the Skew. I keep putting cuts in until it is round, & may do more until I get the the required Size.

My Name is Billy not Silly, meaning you are asking for Trouble if you use all of the Skew's Blade.The skew is a finishing tool and it is quicker to use a roughing gouge IMHO.:wink:

[RETIRED]

My roughing gouges vary from the English style (U shaped) to the European style (like a traditional spindle gouge) and sizes vary from 1/2" to 2" across.

I think I have most of the manufacturers brands but my main preference is Henry Taylor (32mm) European style for the bigger stuff and the larger U shaped for small work.

273375273376273377

[Sawdust Maker]

I've a P&N 25mm because that's what I got in the begining - and I'm liking it

I'm thinking of getting a 32 mm for roughing down pen blanks

[NeilS]

Just the P&N 32mm.

It is all I need for the very little bit of spindle work that I do.

I like the solid tang.

The steel is OK.

It's heavy.

But, their flutes have residual milling tracks that need to be ground/polished out.

Buy unhandled and add your own; their standard handle is too short for this size gouge. I like two thirds handle to one third blade length.

PS - never thought to use it on pens

[Paul39]

I do 95% bowls & 5% tool handles for my own use. I don't own a roughing gouge so use a 5/8 inch bowl gouge, 1 inch spindle gouge, or a 3/4 inch square Bedan for roughing.

I did for a while just use the skew for roughing and finishing, but it occurred to me that honing the skew took more time than a quick swipe on the grinder with the Bedan.

Once I get the skew the right shape on the Tormek I frequently hone on a piece of 320 or 400 grit paper on the bed of the lathe. No point in wearing off that nice shape and edge using it for roughing.

One day when a good roughing gouge appears at 1/2 price I will own one.

[RETIRED]

You forgot the verb.
####### skew :D :roflmao:

[Paul39]

You forgot the verb. :D :roflmao:

Since I spent about two weeks and 30 to 40 hours making tool handles, I no longer call it the accursed skew.

Heaven help me, I even make a tool handle just for entertainment.

As I haven't made a spindle in months I might have to do a bit of practice.

Are some of your European RGs welded on to black iron pipe? Is the vibration harder on the hands than the wooden handles? I have considered welding some big thick planer cutters on to pipe and wrapping the pipe with padded handlebar tape.

My seller called two weeks ago and needed some bigger bowls, so I have been finishing off some that have been lounging around the shed, shrinking oval and cracking. I delivered 7 yesterday and have 3 more almost finished.

[RETIRED]

Since I spent about two weeks and 30 to 40 hours making tool handles, I no longer call it the accursed skew. Good! Another convert to "the Black Arts."

Heaven help me, I even make a tool handle just for entertainment. Oh you sad man.:D

As I haven't made a spindle in months I might have to do a bit of practice.Probably.:wink:

Are some of your European RGs welded on to black iron pipe? Is the vibration harder on the hands than the wooden handles? I have considered welding some big thick planer cutters on to pipe and wrapping the pipe with padded handlebar tape. The tangs snap on ours just from vibration so the answer is to weld them on to steel pipe. I notice no difference in vibration between wood and steel.

My seller called two weeks ago and needed some bigger bowls, so I have been finishing off some that have been lounging around the shed, shrinking oval and cracking. I delivered 7 yesterday and have 3 more almost finished.A little mad money coming up?

[Paul39]

A little mad money coming up?

The turnings are sold on consignment, so the mad money comes in dribs and dabs.

I cash the checks and put it all in my "crazy money" stash, so that when a really good deal comes available on a lathe, chuck, tool, etc. I can buy it.

[NeilS]

...European style for the bigger stuff and the larger U shaped for small work.



- I'm trying to understand the subtleties of this difference.

Do you prefer the European profile for the bigger stuff because it removes more wood (a wider bite) or a shallower bite for a more manageable cut or some other factor(s)?

[RETIRED]

- I'm trying to understand the subtleties of this difference.

Do you prefer the European profile for the bigger stuff because it removes more wood (a wider bite) or a shallower bite for a more manageable cut or some other factor(s)?It is a little bit bit of a paradox.

The larger the work, the smaller the gouge (within reason).

I use the smaller European gouge on larger stuff because it doesn't "bite" as much as the larger English type. On harder stuff it cuts better and longer.

I have no idea why this is so, just is and even Frank Pain mentions it in his book but also gives no explanation.:shrug:

[NeilS]

Thanks for that insight.

[Drillit]

So been doing a lot of spindle work over the last to weeks
It got me thinking about roughing gouges and one big question what makes a good roughing gouge and what do you look for in a roughing gouge??

I have 2 one is a small Sorby and the other is a large open fluted roughing gouge don't have a makers mark but told it came from the same guy that use to make the UNI Jig I love it its my first pick.

This is all very interesting about what we have, but the question is what we use. If you are roughing down on the spindle, except for small diameter stock, you use the RG.
I think small RG's are practically useless. In my mind it has to be something that has a bit of grunt and a decent big handle, otherwise a bit like flying in a storm. It is
then comfortable to plane down with a skew. I only use the skew to rough (plane) down on small diameter stock, square or round. So if it is big and ugly (on the spindle) use a RG.
I think, it is safer and quicker, IMHO. Drillit.

[chuck1]

here are my 3 roughing gouges and the main chisels gouges and parting tools I use at work! mainly use my p&n and Henry Taylor! the big old p&n comes out on the odd occasionwhen removing waste in a big hurry!

[Paul39]

It is a little bit bit of a paradox.

The larger the work, the smaller the gouge (within reason).

I use the smaller European gouge on larger stuff because it doesn't "bite" as much as the larger English type. On harder stuff it cuts better and longer.

I have no idea why this is so, just is and even Frank Pain mentions it in his book but also gives no explanation.:shrug:

,

Do you roll the English type gouges over on their side to get a more slicing cut, like shear scraping?

Just for fun, today I grabbed a chunk of scrap 2 inch heart pine timber that was cut out of the floor framing of our 1896 church hall and made a tool handle.

I used a 20 gauge shot gun barrel as a roughing gouge and a junk Chinese carbon 1 inch skew. No drama except when I was lowering the skew down for a planing cut, the skew touched the blank before the tool rest and I took out a little chip.

I think learning to use the skew is like learning to ride a bike. Once you learn, it stays with you.

[RETIRED]

Do you roll the English type gouges over on their side to get a more slicing cut, like shear scraping?We use the gouge on its side for the final cuts on long straights or tapers.

It is still a cut not a scrape.:wink: