Advice on a lathe

[spankingpigeon]

Hi all
Im looking at upgrading from my trusty mc900 and was going to do the hard slog and try and save for a vicmark vl300 but that will take me a long time as the minister of war and finance has said i can only use money made from turning to buy it, So i have seen this Wood Lathe Invicta Delta | Other Tools & DIY | Gumtree Australia Prospect Area - Prospect | 1025948263 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/prospect/other-tools-diy/wood-lathe-invicta-delta/1025948263) for sale and was wondering if it was an ok lathe and is it a reasonable price for it.
Could it be turned into a evs or would the cost out way ?
cheers brad

[Scott]

Honestly Brad, hold out for a Vicmarc. I'd have to ask, why the 300? I think the VL175, overall, is the better package and not because I own one.

[Beedeejay]

Honestly Brad, hold out for a Vicmarc. I'd have to ask, why the 300? I think the VL175, overall, is the better package and not because I own one.

If you can hold out then I would agree with Scott, Even the VL200 is only about $100 more then the 175 if you want a bigger swing, I know from experience that wishes dont correspond to $$$ in the bank though and it is a hard choice to settle for what we can afford rather then what we should get
I am lucky to have 12+ Lathes to choose from at my local Club and all of them are Vicmarcs, they are a dream to use and I am now saving up so that when my trusty little Midi lathe calls it a day I can hopefully get a Vicmarc too
Cheers Ben

[nz_carver]

I'm another fan of the vl175 mate hold take your time and save up.

[spankingpigeon]

Mmm ok now you have given me something to think about as i hadn't even given the smaller ones a thought.
After owning the mc900 and using it at 90 deg im not sure if im a fan of the swivel headed machines as i found it hard to get everything back in line when putting it back to 0 deg and that is why i was thinking the vl300 for the swing but the thing i dont like about them is you cant slide the head to the end if i wanted to make large platters and bowls

[Paul39]

If the headstock and bed of the Delta are one piece cast iron, that is a serious lathe. Does it have as much swing as you think you will ever need?

If it weighs 4 - 500 pounds with legs, assuming everything works, I think that is a reasonable price. If the range of speeds is good for what you do, and changing the belt from step to step is convenient, variable speed is not that important.

Step pulley lathes can be made into variable speed by putting on a 3 phase motor and a variable frequency drive. If you roll your own with a used motor and a surplus VFD it can be done reasonably.

If you buy new components and have a professional do the conversion, the Vicmarc would be cheaper.

As for getting the swivel machines back to center, there is a double ended Morse taper device that you put in the tailstock, and leaving the headstock loose slide the device into the headstock taper and lock down.

Usually lining up the points on drive and tail centers is close enough.

The better swivel head machines have a pin that locates the head in position.

Edit: That tail stock is good and solid looking as is the tool rest, I expect the short outboard bed would unbolt giving you more swing for a bigger bowl. The center support down by the tail stock is worth about $100

When I looked for more information many copies of the ad came up. The price may be negotiable at this point.

You may want to go have a look and see how easy it is to manipulate all the controls and change speeds.

Than ask my favorite line " what is the absolute least you will take for this, in cash, as is, where is." I have made some deals that way. It is best to have transport so that you can load everything and go.

[Paul39]

Further searching brings this:

Delta DL-40 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum (http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f6/delta-dl-40-a-50722/)

Which is a 16 inch swing industrial lathe with variable speed. The variable speed DC drive was prone to be troublesome and expensive.

I suspect the lathe you are considering is a stepped pulley version of the DL-40.

If that were within 3 hours driving distance from me I would be in the car, money in hand, going there.

[artme]

The VL 175 does have a swivel head but it is accurate to the point of ridiculousness.
When swung back to the spindle turning position it will line up PRECISELY with the headstock.

Motor has plenty of grunt and you can get EVS.

[Jim Carroll]

As others have indicated stick out for the Vicmarc lathes

The one you are looking at is only a slightly larger version of what you have so no real benefit with all the same faults you now have.

The Vicmarc swivel head is very accurate in alignment.

If you want outboard then the VL300 can easily accomodate that as well you can even put a 500mm extension on the outboard side and work with nothing in the way of your feet.

Buy once and buy good it will then last a lifetime.

[spankingpigeon]

thanks for the advice im going to look at the one on gum tree tonight but i wont take any cash with me or i will just buy it then and there!! I think ill do what the majority of people are saying and save for the Vicmark.
If i had the money i would make an offer on the one that is in the for sale section at the moment!!

[stuffy]

That Delta on gumtree looks like a very solid lathe.

I think Delta rebadged the Durden lathes made in Australia. If this is one, then I think it is a very good buy at that price.

We cant all afford a Vicmarc and you could have this one now and keep saving then sell this for what you pay for it.

Best wishes

Steve.

[chuck1]

another cost is new inserts for chucks faceplates and toolrests, it's the small extras when swapping machines ! I know my next Lathe the thread will be 30 by 3.5 funny think thats vicmarc thread size?!?!

[jay h]

Hi, I am currently prettying up one of these lathes and fitting an evs. Very busy this morning so I cannot say too much other than;-
A very solid lathe, the casting for the tailstock weighs in at 17 kgs, Add stands, banjos, rests, outboard turning gear, tailstock spindle etc. and the bolts and washers to hold it all together and you total 120 kgs. I cannot lift the tailstock end of bed off the ground for more than a few seconds, it is very heavy. The previous owner said it weighed in at 450lbs, could be right. Zenvic (Carrum Vic) supplied case Evs controller and long leads wired to motor and did IMHO an excellent job for around $700, maybe not the cheapest worth every cent for mine. The lathe handles 500mm inboard 600/650 outboard (The lathe bed is 200 klm's away so can't measure) with 1300 between centres. The lathe was hooked to an EVS to demo and it was smooth as. At the end the lathe will be pretty well spec'd and one quarter? the cost of the lathe I dream of, a STUBBY, or one third? the cost of a Vicmarc. I also dream of a Maserati. Two downsides Difficult to change belt ratios at the motor (very tight) and no hole through taistock, You have to retract Tailstock fully to eject centres, which are MT2 at both ends with 30x3.5 ? thread on spindle. Got to run. Hope this helps and IMHO Paul 39 is right on the money. Jay

[Beedeejay]

There's always this one that's in the marketplace!:rolleyes:
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f221/vicmarc-vl200-lathe-172663/index2.html

Not sure how far you would travel though:?

[spankingpigeon]

Ok well after going out and having a look at the delta i was quite impressed and i bought it for $650 and it came with lots of tools faceplates and other bits and bobs including a hollowing tool.
As Paul39 had indicated that it might be a a one piece lathe, well he was right and it is very heavy.
The only down side that i can see is that it is a 3 step pulley system so will look for a 3 phase motor and a EVS at some stage and convert it, but i can see some wonderful big turnings in the future :hpydans2::hpydans:
Thanks every one for there help and advice, i took it all on board and hope i've made the right choice.
cheers Brad

[Paul39]

Spankingpigeon,

If you should have buyers remorse, go to your nearest lathe store and look at what a cast iron headstock & bed, same distance between centers, and same swing will cost you.

Even if you find a few surprises, you have a nice big stable lathe that you will appreciate when you start to rough a big out of balance tree stump.

I think normal RPM for lathe motors in AU is around 1400. If there is not a speed chart on the lathe, you can determine the spindle speeds of your lathe by dividing the motor pulley diameter into the corresponding spindle pulley diameter, then divide the RPM of the motor by that number.

As in: first step 2.5 inches, corresponding step diameter 7.5 inches.

7.5 / 2.5 = 3 1400 / 3 = 467 RPM - good RPM for large bowls.

Second step 5 inches & 5 inches, 1400 RPM - good for roughing spindles & small bowls.

Third step 2.5 inches & 5 inches, 2800 RPM - finishing spindles.

I hope to see photos and some tales of adventures with your new toy.

[spankingpigeon]

Thanks Paul.
that is some good info there as i thought and motor will do, so will keep that in consideration.I was going to take this http://www.woodworkforums.com/f231/3hp-3ph-2800rmp-old-motor-working-free-swap-some-timber-174662/ but not sure if it is right for what i want to do it says that it is 2800 rpm ?
Yes there will be plenty if pics and im sure loads of questions:B

[Paul39]

Thanks Paul.
that is some good info there as i thought and motor will do, so will keep that in consideration.I was going to take this http://www.woodworkforums.com/f231/3hp-3ph-2800rmp-old-motor-working-free-swap-some-timber-174662/ but not sure if it is right for what i want to do it says that it is 2800 rpm ?
Yes there will be plenty if pics and im sure loads of questions:B

2800 needs to be reduced to slowest speed of 400 - 500 RPM at the spindle for big bowls. It can be done with a countershaft, but that is an added complication. That motor would be good for a "take no prisoners" table saw or planer.

Here in the US used 3 phase motors are dirt cheap. I would keep looking for a newer 1400 RPM 3 phase of the voltage coming to your shed. The older ones are not as happy being run with a variable frequency drive - Google VFD for some discussion.

I bought a new in crate Baldor 3 HP 1725 RPM, 3 ph, 240 V, and 1 HP 1725 RPM, 3 ph, 240 V, like new from a junk yard for less than $50 for both.

[spankingpigeon]

Thought i would keep you all up to date with my new lathe, All i can say is that it is very big and very heavy, it took myself and 3 friends to lift the head and base (as these are both in one solid cast)
As i found out when i went to pick it up he also was chucking in all of his turning supplies/tools as he said he was getting to old to turn. So i ended up leaving with a load of stuff (Robert Sorby hollowing tools etc) all for $650, so im very happy with the purchase.
All i need to do now is get a 3 phase motor and a vfd and it will be set for life.
here are a few pics of it in my shed with what is to be my first bowl made on it.
This is some of the tools that it came with
282634282637282635
with a chunk of wood in it
282633282632
Any one know what this is used for?
282636
and the shed after roughing down the out side of the bowl
282638

[RETIRED]

It is a screw cup chuck. Woodfast Machinery Co. (Aust.) Pty. Ltd. - (http://www.woodfast.com.au/index.php?p=1_8) Look down the page.

[spankingpigeon]

thanks did a bit of a google and there isnt much info on them but from what i could see it is for spindle work, So dont think ill use it much

[RETIRED]

Mainly used for end grain work like goblets. They were very popular before chucks became the norm.

A very strong way to hold something and still useful for some work.

[spankingpigeon]

OK, Well maybe ill give it a go and see if i like it, If not i think ill put it up for sale.

[Paul39]

Spankingpigeon,

If you roughed out that blank and it did not frighten you, and the lathe did not walk around the shed, you don't NEED a VFD, though it would be nice.

I could not read the tape measure. What is the swing or center height?

You got a screaming good deal on that lathe and added bits. I'm happy for you.

[spankingpigeon]

Thanks Paul

If i did that on the old mc900 it would have been a bit scary but i found (and i dont know why)that the chisels seemed to cut better :roll: maybe it was the extra power and there was a little wobble but that is because i have a timber floor and havent screwed the lathe down yet.
As for the swing i think it takes 620 inboard and 800 outboard with the stand attached or i could take off the stand and use a floor standing tool rest and go huge:)(
Im really happy with it and im sure i could have waited and bought a VL300 and been even happier but im a sucker for a bargain :D

[Paul39]

Spankingpigeon,

Looking at this: Vicmarc VL300 CS Series Shortbed Lathe | Power Tools | Craft Supplies USA (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/6/1/27/120/-/3950/Vicmarc-VL300-CS-Series-Shortbed-Lathe)

If you put a 3 phase motor and VFD on yours, you still have a lot of $$ left.

This gives weight of 229 Kg, pretty close to yours:

Vicmarc - Wood Lathes, Chucks, Jaws and Accessories - VL300 Short Bed (http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=536)

You are smelling like a rose.

Below are photos of my home made 28 inch swing, one speed, 1.5 HP, bowl lathe that I bought for $250. I have not yet used it. It will likely get some modification.

[spankingpigeon]

Yea quite happy. I like yours, good buy
I had a look at the manual and it states that my lathe weighs 500kg and i am looking to do the conversion so if any one out there has a 3 phase motor or vfd that they want to get rid of let me know.

[Paul39]

Here is your controller:

2 2KW 3HP Single 3 Phase 0 600Hz Variable Speed Drive VSD VFD Motor Inverter | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-2KW-3HP-single-3-phase-0-600Hz-Variable-Speed-Drive-VSD-VFD-Motor-Inverter-/281054906991?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item41702d8a6f)

I'm assuming you have 240ish volts to your shed. You want the constant torque converter. You set a speed and the motor turns at that speed until something breaks or the overload kicks out.

The cheaper ones for fans and pumps will vary speed under variable load.

A 2 hp motor is really enough, as you can use the three speed pulley to get a lot of torque.

Check with these folks about a 2 or 3 HP motor:

Filmet 3 Phase Motor 10HP 10 HP 2 Pole 2860 RPM 7 5KW M112 M2 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Filmet-3-Phase-Motor-10HP-10-hp-2-Pole-2860-Rpm-7-5Kw-M112-M2-/111121268373?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item19df57fe95)

They also claim to have 200 Drives:

Mitsubishi Freqroll VSD Inverter Drive FR A024 0 4K | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mitsubishi-Freqroll-VSD-inverter-drive-FR-A024-0-4K-/121153454280?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item1c354f00c8)

I have the 1 HP 120 V version of this drive and am pleased with it:

FM50-203-C (http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_230V/FM50-203-C.html)

The above one does not state if it is a constant torque drive.

If you do not have a lot of experience with a powerful lathe, it would be good to use what you have with the belt just a bit loose, to get used to how it acts.

A bad catch with a 2 - 3 HP motor and tight belt will either; break the tool, jerk it out of your hand, break the tool rest, throw the blank out of the lathe, or any or all of the above.

With a slightly loose belt, the belt slips.

If you get a screaming deal on a C face motor with no foot you can make an L shaped bracket to hold it on the face and a cradle for the back side. I may have mentioned above that I bought a new in crate 3 HP, 3 phase, and a lightly used 1 HP, 3 phase for less than $50 for both at a junk yard. The big one was a C face.

It was probably a spare for a pump in a factory, pump wore out, new pump, different C face, out with the spare.

C face motor: http://www.cshincorporated.com/images/PHOTO1617.JPG

If you are patient and wait for the right deal to appear you can convert cheaply. Check out the motor shops locally, and keep an eye on ebay.

I am most impressed with the weight of your machine. I have a South Bend Heavy 10 lathe that I took all to pieces and brought home in the Ford version of a 1988 Kia Pride hatch back. It weighed 1050 pounds / 477 Kg. Poor car, it is regularly abused with loads of timber, but never as badly as the lathe trip.

[spankingpigeon]

Ok so i have been looking around on the net for a motor and come up with what i think im after
:1.5-3 hp
: 1400-1450 rpm
: 3ph
here are the 3 top ones so far as they fit the above requirements and have a base that i can bolt down.
3 phase electric motor. | Other Tools & DIY | Gumtree Australia Port Adelaide Area - Queenstown | 1025440523 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/queenstown/other-tools-diy/3-phase-electric-motor-/1025440523)

Electric motor 3phase | Heavy, Farming & Agriculture Equipment | Gumtree Australia Gawler Area - Gawler East | 1025259856 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/gawler-east/heavy-farming-agriculture-equipment/electric-motor-3phase/1025259856)

Stirer Agitator Mixer 1.5 hp 1400 rpm - Australian made!! | Miscellaneous Goods | Gumtree Australia Marion Area - Hallett Cove | 1024739583 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/hallett-cove/miscellaneous-goods/stirer-agitator-mixer-1-5-hp-1400-rpm-australian-made-/1024739583)

And the last 2 fit the above requirements but dont have a base.
CHU TA Electric 2 HP 4 Pole 1 5 KW 3 Phase Motor ISO 90002 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Chu-Ta-Electric-2-hp-4-pole-1-5-kw-3-phase-motor-ISO-90002-/111121284425?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item19df583d49&_uhb=1)

4 Pole 3 Phase Motor 1 1 KW 1400 RPM Y90S 4 B | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-pole-3-phase-motor-1-1-kw-1400-rpm-Y90S-4-B-/111121281576?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item19df583228&_uhb=1)

could some one tell me what would be the best to go for?
also if im missing something else that i should look out for.
cheers brad

[Paul39]

, as you have been down the road with Angus, you might be able to shed some light on the 3 phase VFD business.

Spankingpigeon,

Rather than immediately doing a variable speed conversion, you might use the lathe as is for a while. I find the biggest advantage of variable speed is when I have really big out of balance stump on my Woodfast which weighs about 1/3 of yours.

The slowest speed on my 350mm swing Hegner is 800 and I do a fair amount of out of balance stuff on that. It only weighs about 100KG.

Your lathe will absorb a bunch of out of balance.

The motor you choose will have to be the voltage that is delivered to your shed. I think common AU voltage is + - 240V. The motors you show in the above post are 415 or 380 volt.

You could use the higher voltage with a step up transformer to get 380 or 415 but that would be another complication and expense and the VFD would have to be for that voltage. The higher voltage is common for industrial equipment so the VFD would be built for industrial standards.

The "perfect" motor would be 1400 RPM, 3 phase, the voltage of what is in your shed, and Delta connected. The Y or star connected motor may work with a VFD but I would have to do some research.

Here in the USA many motors single and three phase are dual voltage and will be marked as such. Normal house wiring is 3 wires from the pole, two hots and a ground. Across the two hots you get 240V, across tither of the hots and ground you get 120V.

Single phase dual voltage motors will be marked 120 / 240V. Three phase dual voltage motors can be 208 / 415V or 240 / 480V.

[spankingpigeon]

, as you have been down the road with Angus, you might be able to shed some light on the 3 phase VFD business.

Spankingpigeon,

Rather than immediately doing a variable speed conversion, you might use the lathe as is for a while. I find the biggest advantage of variable speed is when I have really big out of balance stump on my Woodfast which weighs about 1/3 of yours.yea problem is the motor is on a hinge and just hangs there and for me to change the belt i have to bend down and hold up a heavy motor and try and move the belt top and bottom all with a bad back:no:

The slowest speed on my 350mm swing Hegner is 800 and I do a fair amount of out of balance stuff on that. It only weighs about 100KG.

Your lathe will absorb a bunch of out of balance.Yea i found that out :2tsup:

The motor you choose will have to be the voltage that is delivered to your shed. I think common AU voltage is + - 240V. The motors you show in the above post are 415 or 380 volt.

You could use the higher voltage with a step up transformer to get 380 or 415 but that would be another complication and expense and the VFD would have to be for that voltage. The higher voltage is common for industrial equipment so the VFD would be built for industrial standards.

The "perfect" motor would be 1400 RPM, 3 phase, the voltage of what is in your shed, and Delta connected. The Y or star connected motor may work with a VFD but I would have to do some research.Ahh thanks thats what i wasnt sure off but now i can keep a better eye out

Here in the USA many motors single and three phase are dual voltage and will be marked as such. Normal house wiring is 3 wires from the pole, two hots and a ground. Across the two hots you get 240V, across tither of the hots and ground you get 120V.

Single phase dual voltage motors will be marked 120 / 240V. Three phase dual voltage motors can be 208 / 415V or 240 / 480V.Thanks mate that a big help

[Paul39]

Ahh yes, the bad back. I have one of those. I'm also 73 & don't have as much vim, vigor, & vitality as I once had.

's Wadkin lathe, Angus, has a pedal that you step on to lift the motor to adjust the belt. If you look carefully at the illustrations here:

http://www.turnersworkshop.co.uk/WadkinRSManual.pdf

You might deduce how it works, and make something to help your back until the right motor and controller at the right price appear. Even after you have converted to variable speed you will need to move the belt occasionally.

My 1995 Woodfast has the motor on a pivot and hanging on the belt It is rigged so that one can lift the motor and hook it in the up position, move the belt and unhook.

I have made many a bowl, start to finish, at 800 RPM on the Hegner.

[spankingpigeon]

Ahh the foot pedal is a good idea but i think it will take some thinking, in the meantime i like the hook idea:2tsup:

[Old Croc]

Hey Paul,
Firstly, it looks like I am going to have to allocate a lot more time when I come to visit you after reading all this :2tsup:.
We run a different electrical distribution system to you guys over there. Generally most streets have 3 Phase and Neutral, which is bonded to Earth. 240Volts between each Phase and Neutral, which is the normal house supply, and 415Volts between Phases for larger/commercial loads. So for Spankingpigeon he will need a 415Volt 3 Phase motor, and these are usually 1425 RPM, and a 240Volt VSD. The VSD electronically creates 3 Phase at variable frequency to set the speed of the motor, and these and the motors are readily available here. (check some of the threads in "Dust Collection" for recomended suppliers)
In rural areas of Aus, they run a SWER system, Single Wire Earth Return, and these can only give single phase and Neutral, but you can get two lots of it out of each transformer, so 240Volt, or 480Volt. 240Volts for the normal house load, and special 480Volt pump motors.
Hope this all helps,
Crocy.

[NeilS]

Mainly used for end grain work like goblets. They were very popular before chucks became the norm.

A very strong way to hold something and still useful for some work.

Developed by Bruce Leadbeatter and manufactured by Woodfast as an enhancement of the earlier straight jam chuck. Besides the better grip, the advantage over the jam chuck is that the work piece can be unscrewed and re-screwed back into the chuck to be re-centred true. Was useful with classes where work had to be packed away and remounted true to axis next lesson. As says, less relevant with the introduction of jawed chucks.

[Paul39]

So for Spankingpigeon he will need a 415Volt 3 Phase motor, and these are usually 1425 RPM, and a 240Volt VSD. The VSD electronically creates 3 Phase at variable frequency to set the speed of the motor, and these and the motors are readily available here.Crocy.

I was confused by the above and did some looking. I found this in the Practical Machinist site:

mookins (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/members/mookins/)
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/images/statusicon/user-offline.png Plastic


<dl class="userstats"><dt>Join Date</dt><dd>Apr 2009</dd><dt>Location</dt><dd>Victoria, Australia</dd><dt>Posts</dt><dd>26</dd></dl>

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/images/icons/icon1.png
I haven't read the entire thread thoroughly, and it is only two and a bit years later so you may have solved this issue however I have the following to add.

Three phase systems are 415V phase-to-phase voltage. However each phase referenced back to neutral (if there is a neutral wire) are 240V.
In star/wye/'y' connection, a motor will have all three phases connected to a common junction (the neutral) and then the input to the motor comes into the other end of each phase. This is shown in the attached image on the right. The voltages to the neutral from each phase will be 240V. The formula is Vin/sqrt(3). So in this case 415V/sqrt(3) = ~240V.

If you however, wire your motor in a delta configuration, whereby each phase is wired in seried to the next, the voltage across phases is 240V. This configuration allows you to run a 240V single phase inverted with 240V three phase output. The motor will draw more current for same load but the power will be the same. In fact the current in a delta configuration is Iin*sqrt(3). So if you had a 415V/5A motor, when it runs at 240V in delta the current will be 8.7A.

Most motor information plates will detail allowable currents for each configuration.

The wiring configuration for the motor is typically done on the junction box attached to the motor itself. The motor hay or may not have instructions for the correct orientation of the terminals to achieve delta or 'wye' connections.

Some more information on three phase circuits can be had here
Three-phase Y and Delta configurations : Polyphase Ac Circuits (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_10/5.html)

I hope this was clear and hope it may help others.

[spankingpigeon]

Ok I'm a little confused now :doh: but what i can gather Ill still need a 415v at whatever HP i want and around the 1400 rpm and then a 240v VSD at the the same HP as the motor ?

[Sevilla]

Vicmarc here. No doubts. Save, squize but Vicmarc. I have a VL300 and consider it better than Oneway and a la par with Robust but it is cast iron and not welded steel.

[Paul39]

Ok I'm a little confused now :doh: but what i can gather Ill still need a 415v at whatever HP i want and around the 1400 rpm and then a 240v VSD at the the same HP as the motor ?

I know just enough about 3 phase electricity to be dangerous. In my case I have 120 volt single phase available. I found a 120 volt 3 phase motor in a junk yard, dirt cheap. I bought a new Teco VFD that takes in 120 single phase and outputs 120 3 phase. I put a plug and wire on the input of the Teco, ran 3 wires plus a case ground to the motor and plugged it in. It goes forward, backward, slow, and fast. The magic smoke did not come out.

I deduce from Old Croc and Mookins that if you have 240 volt single phase in your shed you can use a 240 volt VFD and a 415 volt 3 phase motor to run your lathe. I think this is done by using a motor wired in the Y configuration where the center is grounded and 240 volts put to the ends of the Y.

According to Old Croc AU house wiring is 240 volts for normal household stuff with 415 for heavy draw stuff. Same as our 120 / 240 or 120 / 208 in the US. The reason for the higher voltage is that you can get twice the watts on the same size wire. At the risk of the higher voltage making your heart stop easier if you poke around where you shouldn't be poking.

Either I have missed or you have not stated what voltage you have in your shed. I did not see a 240 volt 3 phase motor listed in any that you posted but lots of 415 volt, which leads me to believe that the good deal will be a 415.

You may wish to check a motor rewinding shop to see if they have any used 3 phase motors and ask the question about using 240 V single phase and a 240 VFD to run a 415 V 3 phase motor. Or ask the sparky you will use to install the system for you. The sparky may have leads on motors and VFDs.

might give you a lead on a sparky and motor shop as he had a 3 phase motor rewound for Angus.

Delta and Y or star connections in 3 phase motors:http://www.anaheimautomation.com/images/ac/wiring/ACP-M%20wiring2%20%28600x301%29.png

[spankingpigeon]

Sorry mate yea 240 v into the shed

[Paul39]

Sorry mate yea 240 v into the shed

From my point of view:

Easiest is 240V constant torque VFD, 240V 3 phase 1400ish RPM motor.

As advised above with local guidance: 240V constant torque VFD, 415V star / Y connected 3 phase 1400ish RPM motor.

Again with local guidance: 240V to 415V transformer, 415V constant torque VFD, 415V delta connected 3 phase 1400ish RPM motor.

Motor HP to taste, keeping in mind how much HP will the belt system you have will transmit. One can always buy a new pulley and belt system.

Post what you have: Size, and V - belt, or multi groove, or flat belt. I can look up how much HP it will transmit. No point in having big HP if it will only make the belt slip or break.

Multi groove transmits the most in more or less equal size to the others.

http://www.goodyearep.eu/uploadedimages/Product_Categories/Aftermarket_Parts_-_Automotive/Products/Belts/ptp_multirib1.jpg

Cost depends on how much of a hurry you are to get the conversion done. I have had the ambition for a monster swing lathe for years. I found a scrapped cutoff saw in a junk yard and bought an arbor mounted on a swing arm, and two pillow blocks with a 2 3/8 inch shaft for 50 cents a pound. Then the 3 HP motor mentioned above, Then a 2 Morse taper tail stock from a metal lathe off ebay.

I went looking for a 24 inch pulley for the drive end of the cut off saw. I had seen big pulleys on the back of commercial laundry machinery. I found a place that repaired commercial laundry machinery and asked the owner if he had something that big. He said "like that", and pointed to one leaning against the building. I said exactly!, and he wanted to know why I wanted it. I told him and he showed me a 36 inch band saw he had set up with a VFD in the shop. He gave me the big pulley. It fit perfectly on the end of the cut off saw that held the 24 inch saw blade.

Some time later I found a 10 inch gear that fit perfectly on the other end, that is my face plate after drilling some holes for lag screws.

Later a disabled truck driving friend was complaining that he needed to cut up the frame of a road tractor in pieces small enough to get into a truck to take to the scrap yard. I cut it up for him and got two 7 foot pieces of 3/8 inch thick 3 X 8 inch high strength C channel. There is the bed.

All of this has taken 4 - 5 years. Meanwhile I have the 350 mm swing Hegner, 20 inch swing Woodfast, and the 28 inch swing light duty home made one with which to amuse myself.

[spankingpigeon]

Its just running a v belt, not sure what the size is i'll have a look.
As much as i would like it done now there is no real great need to hurry it.
Sounds like you have some nice lathes.

[NCArcher]

Let me see if I can clear this up a bit. In Australia you will need a 3 phase motor. All 3 phase motors in Australia are 415V (barring specialty or high voltage motors). Usually connected in Star. (below a certain HP and generally in the range we are talking about) To run from a single phase VSD the motor needs to be connected in Delta. Some motors are dual voltage. The name plate will give details like [Volts 415/240] This usually means that the six ends of the three stator coils have been brought out to the terminal box so re-configuring for either star or delta is just a matter of swapping some bridging bars in the terminal box. Easy. Some motors, however have a permanent star point where one end of each of the three stator coils is bonded together inside the motor. To connect this type of motor in delta the star point must be seperated and the three ends brought out to the terminal box. A bit of electrical know how and some specialised stuff (heat proof sleeving, varnish etc.) is needed to perform this operation. If in doubt, take it to a motor rewinder. They don't charge much for doing this. The neutral is not used in 3 phase motors (except where the motor is used as a brake, but we won't get into that) The VSD is supplied by 240V single phase (normal powerpoint) and puts out 3 phase at 240V between phases. It will draw more current than when connected at 415V but that will keep your kW/HP rating the same. The VSD will need to be the same or larger kW/HP rating as the motor.
Very generalised but basically what you will need.

[spankingpigeon]

Let me see if I can clear this up a bit. In Australia you will need a 3 phase motor. All 3 phase motors in Australia are 415V (barring specialty or high voltage motors). Usually connected in Star. (below a certain HP and generally in the range we are talking about) To run from a single phase VSD the motor needs to be connected in Delta. Some motors are dual voltage. The name plate will give details like [Volts 415/240] This usually means that the six ends of the three stator coils have been brought out to the terminal box so re-configuring for either star or delta is just a matter of swapping some bridging bars in the terminal box. Easy. Some motors, however have a permanent star point where one end of each of the three stator coils is bonded together inside the motor. To connect this type of motor in delta the star point must be seperated and the three ends brought out to the terminal box. A bit of electrical know how and some specialised stuff (heat proof sleeving, varnish etc.) is needed to perform this operation. If in doubt, take it to a motor rewinder. They don't charge much for doing this. The neutral is not used in 3 phase motors (except where the motor is used as a brake, but we won't get into that) The VSD is supplied by 240V single phase (normal powerpoint) and puts out 3 phase at 240V between phases. It will draw more current than when connected at 415V but that will keep your kW/HP rating the same.
Very generalised but basically what you will need.
Thanks mate.
Thats sort of what i have come to the conclusion from reading this site and others and its nice to have it backed up buy a couple of people now.
The only thing i didn't know was about the delta and star patterns but that seems to be cleared up now cheers.
Well its of to ebay and gumtree lol

[RETIRED]

This thread now warrants this I think.


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[spankingpigeon]

pmsl Are you trying to tell me something :fingerscrossed:

[Old Croc]

Hey Paul,
Firstly, it looks like I am going to have to allocate a lot more time when I come to visit you after reading all this :2tsup:.
We run a different electrical distribution system to you guys over there. Generally most streets have 3 Phase and Neutral, which is bonded to Earth. 240Volts between each Phase and Neutral, which is the normal house supply, and 415Volts between Phases for larger/commercial loads. So for Spankingpigeon he will need a 415Volt 3 Phase motor, and these are usually 1425 RPM, and a 240Volt VSD. The VSD electronically creates 3 Phase at variable frequency to set the speed of the motor, and these and the motors are readily available here. (check some of the threads in "Dust Collection" for recomended suppliers)
In rural areas of Aus, they run a SWER system, Single Wire Earth Return, and these can only give single phase and Neutral, but you can get two lots of it out of each transformer, so 240Volt, or 480Volt. 240Volts for the normal house load, and special 480Volt pump motors.
Hope this all helps,
Crocy.

As I said in this post, get a professional shop to set it up for you, :2tsup: I bought mine off Woodfast, and have not looked back.
rgds,
Crocy.

[Paul39]

Its just running a v belt, not sure what the size is i'll have a look.
As much as i would like it done now there is no real great need to hurry it.
Sounds like you have some nice lathes.

As you use your lathe more, and if you find a way to easily lift the motor to change the belt from pulley to pulley, you may decide you do not need variable speed.

My Woodfast came with DC variable speed, so I use it because I have it. I still start on the slowest speed on the 5 step pulley to get more torque and to keep the motor running faster for cooling.

The Hegner has stepped pulleys 800, 1400, 2400, & 2800 RPM. Larger bowls are made at 800 start to finish. Medium started at 800 & once round and balanced, finished at 1400.

Tool handles, 1400 unless the blank is split out of a log, then started at 800. I may have used 2400 once on a smaller tool handle.

I might do a pen if a gun were held to my head.