Robert Sorby Turnmaster carbide tools

[Evanism]

Anybody used them?

They seem a bit hard to get. Everywhere I've looked seems to be on back order or unavailable.

I'm reading a book on turning with carbide tools and the author seems very keen to push them.

[Jim Carroll]

Arrived today

[Evanism]

Arrived today

I asked as I was on your site this arvo and it was marked as "coming soon". I'll recheck.

I'd also like to get the sorby sanding douverlacky if you have it....

[spankingpigeon]

I've got both of the tools that your after. I found that the carbide wasn't as sharp as i thought it would be, maybe i just got a bad one.
Also because you need to have the tool rest quite far away from the work, it tends to grab and pull you into the work. If i was to buy it again i would buy it un-handled and get one of there long adjustable handles or make your own long handle.
Having said all of that negative stuff i do like the tool (when its sharp)its robust and i don't think it would break or get damaged to easily and as they are designed to be, are very easy to use.
As for the sander still trying to work it out (never used a rotating sander before) I cant seem to consistently get it spinning. But i do like the adjust-ability of the unit.

[Jim Carroll]

I asked as I was on your site this arvo and it was marked as "coming soon". I'll recheck.

I'd also like to get the sorby sanding douverlacky if you have it....

Dont worry about the sander, not worth mucking with.

Stick to the proper rotary sanders or the power sander heads.

[Evanism]

Dont worry about the sander, not worth mucking with.

Stick to the proper rotary sanders or the power sander heads.

Interesting what spankingpigeon says. I'm not unhappy with my Robert sorby newbie kit, I was thinking a 1/2 inch fingernail gouge would be nice as I'm doing a lot of bowls. The price for the carbide one was not much more. The videos rave on about them.

As for "proper rotary sanders", do you mean the stuff listed here?: CWS Store - Rotary Sander | Carroll's Woodcraft Supplies (http://www.cws.au.com/shop/category/-rotary-sander)

[oreos40]

spanking I dont have the tools and get my own inserts when I need them.I have a question for youthough. Could you take a minute and check the inserts under a magnifying glass. see if there is a factory hone or .002-.005 inch flat right at the cutting edge. If there is the tool is more or less a scraper. if it is truly a sharp grind then I can understand how you feel that it is sucking you in as it is self feeding. it takes some getting used to depending on the relief on the edge of the insert. I have heard of people useing a small washer behind below the insert to give them the feeling of riding the bevel to eliminate this on a carbide tool. I have used carbide inserts for a long time but I do not use them in a traditional hand tool fashion.

[Paul39]

Interesting what spankingpigeon says. I'm not unhappy with my Robert sorby newbie kit, I was thinking a 1/2 inch fingernail gouge would be nice as I'm doing a lot of bowls. The price for the carbide one was not much more. The videos rave on about them.

The difference between a fingernail gouge and what you have is the grind. Change the angle a bit on your grinding jig to go toward the finger nail grind. I found it got more aggressive and had some interesting catches.

I use a mild fingernail grind.

The carbide tools are great for long life on hard abrasive wood. They are scrapers and never will be as sharp as high speed or carbon steel. Depending on the timber you will get a mildly rough to corn cob surface.

The "never need sharpening" tips can be sharpened on a diamond credit card type plate. It does make a significant difference. I have an Easy Finisher that I use to gouge out the inside of bowls made of locust timber, a hard wood with silica in it. I bought it used at considerable savings, but I'm not yet sure that it is worth what I paid.

A high speed steel Bedan type tool will do the same thing and can be sharpened and honed to cut off the barest whisker just before sanding. A carbide tool will never do that.

I keep my grinder running while turning and can put a new edge on the Bedan or scraper in 5 seconds.

As to great and wondrous tools endorsed and demonstrated by FAMOUS TURNERS; it is hard to make a living turning, so if one teaches or demonstrates for a tool maker, and endorses "signature" tools by a tool maker, that income helps keep the wolf away from the door.

I read some years ago that Richard Raffan, one of my heros, had made over 30,000 bowls. I expect he could make a very nice bowl using a table spoon and rail road spike, sharpened on a curb stone.

Do a search on this forum. Several people have done exhaustive testing and comparisons of many chucks, grinders, gouges, etc. Much money and time has been invested to do this.

We do not have to reinvent the wheel.

[Drillit]

I have invested in these fairly comprehensively and I find them fabulous. I have tried all the cutters HSS, Tungsten carbide and
and titanium nitride and have found the TC cutters the best for stock removal. I bought from the US (thru a friend) because I wanted the unhandled ones
with separate heads so that I could change cutters quickly using the sovereign system. Two thoughts, they are not a full substitute for all your turning
tools and they do take getting used to. Price wise the HSS cutters are the cheapest and TC the dearest ($15-20). The hss is much
sharper than the carbide cutters (4 times), but their wear resistance (TC) is much greater (3 times). The hss is best for finishing cuts. Personally I think it is
also easier to replace the cutters, given that you simply rotate them a little when they dull, which means that they will last a long time rather than to try to sharpen, particularly the carbide cutters.
I would also suggest that you place a small washer under the cutter and make sure that the torx screw is tight. This will give you a better feel to the cut.
A further point. Because the underside of the handle is flat to the tool rest (ie not round like a gouge) make sure that the rest does not have any marks/dints on it that will catch the flat edge.
So dress the tool rest and rub it with WD 40 or like. There are 3 positions that you can set the cutter which gives you a good shear cut capacity.
From memory you have more options with the HSS and TN cutters, I think from memory there are only 3 cutters in TC. I have also found
that the mushroom cutter is good for undercutting bowl lips, apart from the obvious. Finally, I think that you can buy a cutter holder
if you really want to sharpen the cutters. Hope this helps, Drillit.

[oreos40]

this subject comes up in several turning forums. I understand that technically because of the grain structure of carbide it cannot be sharpened to the fine edge that HSS can. I also feel that most would be hard pressed to put the sharpest possible edge on either carbide OR HSS. I have used inserts for almost thirty years and in the application I have had very good results. as far as a corn cob appearance I get a good finnish with a light dusting of sand paper.

I use a carbide on these they are kiln dried blanks.
making a wood guard for a toy epee on a converted Atlas metal lathe - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GwTwU9FNb4M)

[rsser]

Carbide cutters vary a bit in their finish and so in the finish they leave.

No wonder; producing a polished bevel on one is not a trivial business. Esp. on a round one.

The best I've had was the Finisher disc from EWT.

[rsser]

I have an Easy Finisher that I use to gouge out the inside of bowls made of locust timber, a hard wood with silica in it. I bought it used at considerable savings, but I'm not yet sure that it is worth what I paid.

A high speed steel Bedan type tool will do the same thing and can be sharpened and honed to cut off the barest whisker just before sanding. A carbide tool will never do that.

Perhaps you meant an Oland-type tool Paul?

[Paul39]

Perhaps you meant an Oland-type tool Paul?

A round nose Bedan or a non-insert Oland.

Tips and the two on either side of my lawn mower blade scraper below. Bigger one is made of a 3/4 inch square file, smaller one 7/16 mystery metal that was a concrete form stake.

The big shiny one on top is a 12 inch 3/8 inch thick high speed steel planer blade made into a heavy scraper. I got 4 for $15 at an auction. One day I will have a 1/2 inch rod welded on the end and put a handle on it. It works just fine on the outside of bowls as is.

All my scrapers are sharpened up side down on a 120 grit Al OX wheel. This makes a nice burr for roughing. When I get to the last final cuts before sanding, I hone the top and use in the trailing position.

Note to all: look at rsser's posts for extensive comparisons of all things pertaining to turning.

Rsser, thanks for all the research you have done. I have learned much from you and this forum.

[rsser]

I understand that technically because of the grain structure of carbide it cannot be sharpened to the fine edge that HSS can.

There are micro-carbides. With diamond paste and a jewellers lapping wheel they can resharpened well enough to scrape cast iron (eg. to flatten handplane soles).

I've not tried the diamond wheel on my grinder which as NeilS has posted can do a similar job.

[rsser]

Sorry Paul. We were writing at the same time.

Thanks for giving me the credit. All I did was to first bring this forum's attention to US turner's experiments with scraper treatments and do a few of my own. NeilS's posts are the ones to search for; much more thorough and thoughtful.

Re materials variation, I've just watched the Sorby vid on their system. It's a good intro. But I don't buy their case about TiNi treatment. Unless you have a very fine grind wheel, a burr will be produced and there goes the gold.

Tools nominally described as scrapers can also be used in cutting mode. A HSS scraper can have a 'hook' turned using a burnishing tool, and while many of us have used DIY Oland tools as scrapers, if you look at Darrel Feltmate's site*, it looks like he's using one with bevel rubbing. As did Vic Wood way back when, with his beautiful winged lidded boxes.

* Wood Turning Tools: Making the Oland Tool (http://aroundthewoods.com/oland.shtml)