New 3M face shield

[chuck1]

my new faceshield arrived today and I got to use it! so far so good! still have the old dustmaster belt pack
the head set it light and comfortable the only down side it two holes in the top that will let dust in! there is a material cover that can be purchased to go over the top.

[orificiam]

Nice Buy Chuck, let us know how it performs.

Cheers Tony.:)

[FenceFurniture]

Where did you get it from chuck, and emmachisit please?

[chuck1]

belt pack came from a safety shop in fairy meadow , the faceshield came from 3M directly, retails for $1499
work paid for it for me so I guess they are keeping me on!

[powderpost]

belt pack came from a safety shop in fairy meadow , the faceshield came from 3M directly, retails for $1499
work paid for it for me so I guess they are keeping me on!
I bought one about two months ago from Carba-tec in Brisbane. Cost me $1049 for a 3M versaflow starter kit. I find it to be excellent, just be careful of flatulence. :oo:

No connection with Carba-tec other than a satisfied customer.
Jim

[brendan stemp]

Mmmmm, interesting. I initially thought (hoped) when I saw this thread with this new style of respirator that 3M might actually price these units at a more realistic level. By realistic I mean a hell of a lot cheaper. I have a 3M Dustmaster and reckon that it could be manufactured in China for about $10! (it cost me ($850) There really aain't much to them. The face mask component, for example, is no better than a standard face amsk that costs $20 - $30. If you showed it to someone who knew nothing about them I'm sure they would guess the price to be around the $100 mark. These new ones look slicker but I'm sure are also very inexpensive to manufacture. So how on earth do they end up retailing for $1000 + ????? Unfortunately they are by far the best thing on the market, especially if you need to wear it all day. But it really does upset me they are so bloody expensive. I usually don't like the fact that Chinese manufacturers rip off designs from elsewhere and sell them at a much cheaper rate but in this case the 3M monopoly on this style of respirator should be challenged. And if it was I bet the price would very quickly plumett. Perhaps the price reflects the fact the respirators are designed for industry and not the humble turner.

Gripe over, off to bed:~

[TTIT]

.................. Perhaps the price reflects the fact the respirators are designed for industry and not the humble turner.

Gripe over, off to bed:~Exactly! :~ (Not that I'd wear one even if they were giving them away!! :no:)

[FenceFurniture]

So it's $1500 plus the belt pack? Jaysus, I could buy a sexy lookin' copper & brass diver's helmet and a split system aircon to feed it for that. Looks and sound like a great bit of kit but really that's an absurd price for what it appears to be (a bunch of molded plastic and stuff).

[chuck1]

$1499 total but Jim got one cheaper! they might sell the old dustmasters off cheaper now?

[Uncle Al]

I find it to be excellent, just be careful of flatulence. :oo:
Jim

I also have one of these, and am very aware of recycling certain parts of the atmosphere:)


Alan...

[mat_au]

I looked at that as well and could'nt justify the price, so i looked around and found this

PAFtec Cleanspace® 2 Respirator : CARBA-TEC (http://www.carbatec.com.au/paftec-cleanspace-2-respirator_c22328)

found it a BOC for $445 plus the $80 for the mask - comes in 3 sizes and 2 styles.

but the best part is the battery last a full day its not always running like some respirators just when you are breathing. fits nicely under my face shield and does a bloody good job, no more coughing up trees :D

found this on youtube and this kinda sold it as well PAFtec CleanSpace® Carpark Robustness Test - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKseDkLFD_U)

[FenceFurniture]

I looked at that as well and could'nt justify the price, so i looked around and found this

PAFtec Cleanspace® 2 Respirator : CARBA-TEC (http://www.carbatec.com.au/paftec-cleanspace-2-respirator_c22328)

found it a BOC for $445 plus the $80 for the mask - comes in 3 sizes and 2 styles.

Mat, does it run on rechargable batteries? Do the filters get replaced? (neither is mentioned on Carbatec)

[mat_au]

it has a rechargeable battery its been lasting me 10hrs, it says it last 6-8hrs then just plug it in to the power point
and yes it has a filter but what i have read they done need changing that often. I got a filter saver for it as well that sits on top of the filter and pro longs its life as well

[Tim the Timber Turner]

So it's $1500 plus the belt pack? Jaysus,

At $1500 it's a bargain compared to the price of a new set of lungs.

Cheers
Tim:)

[NeilS]

Good rant, Brendan.

If Australasia can produce four of the best woodturning lathes over the last couple of decades I can't see why we couldn't do something better on turning mask-respirators, at least price wise.

Triton had a go. Not sure what happened there.

The collective ingenuity of the members of this forum must be able to come up with something that is more affordable.

The basic design is a high impact face mask + a skirting to contain and direct positive air flow over the face + a supply of filtered positive air pressure/flow or fresh air from outside.

There are two options on the last component; tethered, which works OK in the vicinity of the lathe, and self contained with the filtration and fan unit on the mask or on a belt or back pack.

The first component is readily available at mass produced prices. The impact rating, comfort and economic replacement of the shield (they all scratch) are the main consideration there.

Adding the skirting is a fiddle, like finding a glue or solvent that takes to the plastics used in the mask, but nothing beyond most of us. Various designs for the skirting may be needed to suit personal preferences.

The simplest option for the clean air supply is a tethered arrangement. It may not suit everyone, but I found it worked well for me in and around the lathe, bandsaw and sharpening station, where I spend most of my time. In mine I ran a supply line of flexible medical grade hosing along flying fox (zip) lines to an off-the-shelf air filter unit, like this (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wandana-heights/other-appliances/air-purifier-and-ionizer/1027873277). The downside is the limit of the tether. The upsides include the vary large surface areas of the HEPA filters in off-the-shelf air filter units, which means less frequent need to clean and replace these larger filters, the relatively cheaper cost of replacing these more standard sized filters, and the quieter running noise levels inside the mask because of the larger/slower fans inside the filter unit.

Here's my version of that system that I have been using now for quite a few years.

289501





Provided your climate doesn't have extremes, fresh air from outside delivered via a fan unit through a similar arrangement could be another economical variation of the tethered option.

And for an 'onboard' filter unit option, I don't imagine it would be beyond the brains trust to come up with an economical solution there. For example, hook one of these (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Solar-Car-Powered-HEPA-Fresh-Air-Cleaner-Purifier-/321208451721?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ac9840289) 12v units* to either one of these (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-12V-1800mAh-Super-Lithium-ion-Rechargeable-Li-ion-Battery-Energy-Storage-Pack-/261291313735?pt=AU_Electronics_Batteries_Chargers&hash=item3cd62d0a47) small lightweight lithium-iron batteries (buy two and recharge one while using the other) or to one of these (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-12V-12000mAh-Super-Polymer-Rechargeable-Lithium-ion-Battery-/290761072305?pt=AU_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories&hash=item43b2b5deb1) longer lasting but heavier batteries.

If I was to put that combination together I'd be mounting them on a back-pack arrangement. Strip it down to just the harness and frame. The local op-shop usually have a bucket full of them.

Then, for the best of both, a dual air supply option could allow for tethered operation while in the main workstation zones and self contained for elsewhere... :U

At worst, a DIY solution might cost between $300-400, and that allows for a few hiccoughs along the way. Cobbling together a DIY solution from mass produced components will provide the most economical solution. To manufacture a customised commercial product for what is a limited market is always going to cost more. They have a lot of compliance costs and OH&S issues to get right. But, I still can't see why it should cost any more than $500-600 for a premium retail product.

* The cubic delivery capacity of that unit is not specified, so might be insufficient. The availability of replacement HEPA filters and getting access to change them may be another issue. I would also want to be able to turn off the Ozone feature... yes, it kills germs, but is also unkind to other living thing.

[Colin62]

At $1500 it's a bargain compared to the price of a new set of lungs.

Cheers
Tim:)

That is true, and also what I find annoying about the pricing. It's priced high because it is a "must have", and people will find the money even though the selling price is completely unrelated to the cost of manufacture.

[chuck1]

our storeman did the negotiations with 3M and I only spoke to the rep for a few minutes, maybe we got cheaper than the 1499 that the rep quoted me??

[Colin62]

Just to be clear - I like it, and I'd like one. But it's not cheap :-)

[Mobyturns]

I would suggest the pricing is for different models with differing standards compliance. Looks like a very good option in any case & I particularly like the AS/NZS 1337 High Impact eye and Face protection. Its a step up from the Trend / Purelite options that I have been using for several years.

From 3M's website PPE Safety Solutions : Safety Product Catalog from 3M Australia:#3M (http://solutions.3m.com.au/wps/portal/3M/en_AU/PPE_SafetySolutions_APAC/Safety/Products/Product-Catalog/?PC_7_U00M8B1A0OVPD0IF18DPBAB0I5000000_nid=CH7JL206W3beH0F9BQFTN3gl)

M-106 - Standard: AS/NZS 1716 for Respiratory Protection; AS/NZS 1337 High Impact eye and Face protection
M-306 - Standard: AS/NZS 1716 for Respiratory Protection; AS/NZS 1337 High Impact eye and Face protection; AS/NZS 1801 Type1 Industrial safety Helmet

[FenceFurniture]

Yebbut innit just a piece of Polycarb in a flame resistant shroud with some air pipes??

[chuck1]

Yebbut innit just a piece of Polycarb in a flame resistant shroud with some air pipes??

don't forget the nylon belt and rechargeable battery and blower unit! work won't tell me what they paid for it! but there was no arguments about getting it for me! now to test out if I can bring it home on weekends! fingers crossed!

[Colin62]

Tell them you need to clean it weekly, and don't want to waste company time on that, so you're prepared to do it over the weekends on your own time :)

[chuck1]

Tell them you need to clean it weekly, and don't want to waste company time on that, so you're prepared to do it over the weekends on your own time :)
and recharge the battery! could be a plan! :)

[hughie]

For me most of this sort of gear is expensive. But the real bug bear is that most if not all have some degree of impact resistance buts not very high given the weight of Oz hardwoods and the potential impact at speed. I agree with Brendan, much of it seems over priced, it may well reflect the small market to some extent, otherwise its 'what the traffic will bear' type of thing.

So for me I have cultivated the habit of keeping out of the way as much as possible. I like Neil's idea of a home build as I have access to a fair amount of poly-carbonate and couple it to the PAFtec.

Currently its a respirator, 2hp DC, and a bloody great big fan

[BobL]

. . . . I like Neil's idea of a home build as I have access to a fair amount of poly-carbonate and couple it to the PAFtec. . . . .

I'm up for DIY, perhaps more that most, but for PPE, especially something like a face shield, I would think very carefully before departing from a commercial product. Any DIY manipulation of polycarbonate into a 3D shield is likely to make it brittle so it is most unlikely that it will be as strong as a shield such as those from say Armadillo. The commercial shields are molded, stress relieved, and tested to standards and levels using gear that DIY just don't have access. My TS guard (which I don't think of it as a guard but more of a dust hood) is made out of polycarbonate heated and bent into a trapezoidal box. When it accidentally dropped onto the spinning TS blade it shattered at the corners where it had been heated and bent. I replaced the shattered guard with a thinner piece of PC that had been cold bent and that has held up pretty well even though it has several nicks and one 50 mm cut, and a chip out of the corner.

As someone who's done lots of dust testing (and has recently developed asthma) I still think that throwing $100's of 1000's at face filters before a decent DC system is installed is the wrong way around. I can work at my lathe with big chips flying all over the place but the fine dust meter shows that the concentration at my head level is the same as the natural background dust levels outside my shed. No mask, no fans to spread the fine dust around, just a 3HP DC with a bell mouth hood about 100 mm from the back of the work. OK, I do mainly small spindle work and its not going to be as effective for those of you that turn big stuff but for folks turning small stuff especially pens this method is definitely the way to go. FWIW I do have a Triton full face mask and do use it but only about 3/4 times are year. It's also very useful for wasp nest cleanup :D

[hughie]

.
Any DIY manipulation of polycarbonate into a 3D shield is likely to make it brittle so it is most unlikely that it will be as strong as a shield such as those from say Armadillo. The commercial shields are molded, stress relieved, and tested to standards and levels using gear that DIY just don't have access.

I actually have done for a living and still a bit of it from time to time. But its really a case of getting around to it with everything else on the go as well.

[BobL]

.

I actually have done for a living and still a bit of it from time to time. But its really a case of getting around to it with everything else on the go as well.

Love to see a WIP when you do it. :2tsup:

[Willy Nelson]

Gents
I used on evaporative Airconditioner, fashioned a collecter from the lid of a rubbish bin, which then directs the cool, moist air into three lengths of 50mm pool hose into a spray painters hood with an impact resistant visor. I use the scientific method of testing for inhaled dust (Jarrah) after a 3-4 hour session whenI blow my nose, all green (I think that is good, disgusting, but good).
Have used this system now for a bout 5 years, cost me $50.
In summer, I remove the russbish bin lid collector which is held in place by two bungy cord, and the workshop is air conditioned as well.
Has been described as a MacGyver arrangement, but works for me
Happy Days
Willy