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Evanism
14th March 2014, 06:20 PM
Well, yesterday the inevitable happened.

Making a wonderful bowl out of some Russian Olive. Just about finished and I wasn't quite happy with the bottom of the inside. Touched it up with the chisel and BOOM!

It broke in half, one flew across the room and the other climbed my arm like a demon and slammed into my face. Broken nose, nice big diagonal split and many cuts. Blood absolutely everywhere.... It was like a murder scene! :doh:

3 hours at the hospital. What's really cool is they glued the split up with CA! Neato!

Anyway, a full face helmet is now to be bought. What are the features I should be on the lookout for?

Do you have a recommendation on a model?

mat_au
14th March 2014, 06:34 PM
Well it looks like you learnt the hard way :D

anyway this is the one i use i love it, saved me a few times already

http://www.carbatec.com.au/professional-face-shield_c21668

Christos
14th March 2014, 06:40 PM
I had recently purchased a new face shield, Armadillo.

307362

Prior to this one I was using one that I picked up from the wood show. The reason that I swapped to this one is that there is a curve at the bottom of the face shield and I am not bending my neck to stop the shaving coming from underneath.

fozz
14th March 2014, 06:47 PM
http://www.blackbeltshop.com/seoimages%5C300x300-macho-warrior-face-shield.jpg

couldn't hurt :oo:
(http://www.blackbeltshop.com/seoimages%5C300x300-macho-warrior-face-shield.jpg)

fozz
14th March 2014, 06:56 PM
Seriously though, hope you mend quickly.

BobL
14th March 2014, 07:26 PM
Sorry to hear about your "incident".
Might be an idea to post your story or link to it from the Safety forum.

Full face shield wise, I have several. One I keep with my chainsaw chains in my van but my favourite is the Armadillo that Christos posted a picture of.
Because it is comfortable, strong, has best all round vision, has good hard PC that doesn't scratch easel and is one of the best visors for covering the throat and neck, it''s not only the best one for turning but all other functions in the workshop.
I use this one a lot when metal working especially with the angle grinder.
Make sure you get one that curves in 3D as these are potentially more protective than those that only curve in 2D.

FWIW, when I fell through a plate glass door and copped 27 witches in my left hand, arn and shoulder, I also had multuple cuts on my face and scalp. The ones on my scalp they just grabbed a twitch of hair either side of the cut and dabbed a little CA on the twisted hair.

ian thorn
14th March 2014, 08:03 PM
The Carba tec one in the link shown is about the best you will find I have one it fits great and is comfy and light anti mist, replaceable shield easy to adjust . the best part is it protects you from a neck hit that's why a lot of pros use them. the shield name is UVEX Google their site.

Ian

Pat
14th March 2014, 08:32 PM
Evan, sorry to hear about your incident. We all have them. I was lucky, but now I use a Face Shield for any bowl turning or larger spindles.

I use a Honeywell Bionic (http://www.honeywellsafety.com/Products/Eye_and_Face_Protection/Honeywell_Bionic.aspx?site=/uk), as it is impact rated, light, comfortable to wear for extended periods. Whilst sanding I can wear a 3m half face dust mask with filters under the visor.

DavidG
14th March 2014, 08:36 PM
I use one of these http://www.cwsonline.com.au/shop/item/trend-airsheild-pro-respirator

Solves the dust problem as well.

chuck1
14th March 2014, 08:38 PM
I have 3M versaflo face shield with respirator and use it lots! even when routing. not the cheapest option but I think it was worth it!
used to have a racal dustmaster also good, doesn't offer the throat protection as the other one mentioned above!

artful bodger
14th March 2014, 08:57 PM
When I turn big ugly lumps, or big heavy stuff I have been known to don my motorcycle crash helmet. Nothing has gone wrong so far in as much as it has been tested but it does give a pretty good sense of security.

michael_m
14th March 2014, 09:21 PM
I use one of these (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UMATTA-Browguard-Visor-High-Impact-Faceshield-with-Chin-Guard-/271285855703?pt=AU_ProtectiveGear&hash=item3f29e5a5d7&_uhb=1). The chin guard sits on the upper chest when I'm looking down, which to my mind gives me better protection, as it will be harder to be dislodged by an impact and the force will not just be taken by the head, but by the torso as well.

I've no idea if it's "best or not", but it's a step up from a standard faceshield.

BobL
14th March 2014, 09:50 PM
One issue to watch out for with many face shields is that not all shields accommodate decent earmuffs. You might only need to wear muffs every now and then, but why fork out for multiple types when one will do the job.

I expect someone will suggest using ear plugs instead but since I don-remove muffs multiple times a day, I don't want to be constantly inserting/removing ear plugs with dirty hands.
Another reason to use muffs over earplugs is that research has shown that not even professional audiologists can fit earplugs consistently to always meet the rated spec of plugs.

Evanism
14th March 2014, 10:03 PM
These are all really great suggestions.

Two of my Canberra mates and forum members (Ilya and corbs) suggested the Armadillo as well. The place that sells them is not open on the weekend which is a bummer....I'm hoping to do some turning tomorrow and Sunday, but can't without a face shield. My nose is so puffed up that it's impossible to put goggles on!

Everyone who prodded me on safety is absolutely right. I deserve the criticism. told me to buy a face mask or two when he came up and several months later I still hadnt done it.

Of all the places it could have gone, it was my face... I suppose Karma mandated it.

Now it's sunk in, it could have been my teeth or eyes. The gods looked after this stupid man. (I was wearing good goggles)

RETIRED
14th March 2014, 10:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkZuLaSyQ_I&feature=plcp

Mobyturns
14th March 2014, 11:20 PM
Hope you mend fast. It’s a shame it took a trip to the emergency room to convince you to use a decent face shield.

Bear in mind that the Armadillo & Uvex Bionic are face shields and are not helmets.

The Armadillo is an excellent choice as it meets Aust 1337 “high impact” standard and has a decent brow guard as well. It has a compound curve to the polycarbonate face shield which gives it considerable strength and has excellent visual acuity. http://www.protectoralsafe.com.au/search/faceshields-armadillo/307119711?c=Product

The Bionic is a good choice it meets US Z87.1 standards (their “high impact” which is slightly lower than the Aust/NZ standard 1337 “high impact” standard).

For several years I have personally been wearing either an original Purelite / Trend Airshield for lower risk tasks (AS 1337 “medium impact” standard) and the Armadillio for higher impact protection (with a decent quality P2 dust mask).

For any turner out there using a "splash guard", a face shield with a single curve thin acetate shield, please set it aside and purchase a high impact rated face shield!

Generally hardware store thin acetate face shields are not up to the hazard / risk scenarios that wood turners encounter.

Lathe Safety Guidelines are at http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=164022

Mobyturns
14th March 2014, 11:32 PM
I use one of these (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UMATTA-Browguard-Visor-High-Impact-Faceshield-with-Chin-Guard-/271285855703?pt=AU_ProtectiveGear&hash=item3f29e5a5d7&_uhb=1). The chin guard sits on the upper chest when I'm looking down, which to my mind gives me better protection, as it will be harder to be dislodged by an impact and the force will not just be taken by the head, but by the torso as well.

I've no idea if it's "best or not", but it's a step up from a standard faceshield.

That is also a very good choice! "Approved to Australian and New Zealand Standards 1337:1992 (Licence # 4011)" "Faceshield approved for high impact protection"

artful bodger
15th March 2014, 10:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkZuLaSyQ_I&feature=plcp

No disrespect here Mr , but when your turning a half ton chunk of wood (which I have seen in one of your videos) do you think a plastic faceguard will save your noggin against an escaping lump of wood?. Personally I'd go for a full face motorcycle crash helmet. I'm sure you could fit one of those dust be gones under it.
OK, so the original question was about a bit of olive (maybe not half a ton), still turning stuff at high speeds always has its perils and any protection is better then none.
I'm sure most people reading this forum including me have had fluke incidents where something has gone wrong really quickly and has resulted in horribly close misses or big hits.
As they say, "Its all fun and games till someone loses an eye".
The dust factor is certainly as important. Gawd, "dust be gones" might be first line of defense, but give me a decent Sundstrom mask any day and let me wander through clouds of asbestos dust fearlessly.
Sadly to all the bearded turners....be aware that beards do reduce the effectiveness of good dust masks.
Anyway, safety is a good topic,cause no one wants to get maimed having fun
Burp!.... I might just have another parsnip sparkling wine!

BobL
16th March 2014, 03:52 AM
No disrespect here Mr , but when your turning a half ton chunk of wood (which I have seen in one of your videos) do you think a plastic faceguard will save your noggin against an escaping lump of wood?. Personally I'd go for a full face motorcycle crash helmet. I'm sure you could fit one of those dust be gones under it.
If you look up the punishment specs for face shields and make a few assumptions about the size of the chunk of wood and the rotational speed and then do the physics calculations you might be surprised what speed you could spin the lump at and still get substantial protection from a quality face shield. The mass of the rotating object is a secondary factor in the rotational energy equation - what really matters is the RPMs since the rotational energy increases with the RPM2 - the key here is to keep the RPMs as low as possible, e.g. halving the RPM will drop the rotational energy by a factor of 4.


The dust factor is certainly as important. Gawd, "dust be gones" might be first line of defense, but give me a decent Sundstrom mask any day and let me wander through clouds of asbestos dust fearlessly.
I agree it is important but anyone really serious about dust will use a quality dust extractor well before using a mask since mask do not prevent a workspace from being contaminated. Using a mask means wearing it all the time the operator is in the shed as fine dust from turning takes many hours and even days to settle. Not to mention contaminating skin, hair and clothing. I have done tests that demonstrate that all fine dust can be removed while turning by a DC that can draw a real 1000+ CFM from the close vicinity of a lathe meaning absolutely no mask (but definitely use a face shield) is needed. A shed is also much cleaner and so is the operator and his/her clothing. In terms of effectiveness, money spent on expensive masks is much better directed at improving dust collection at source. Masks should only be used after all other possible and reasonable engineering solutions have been implemented.

Mobyturns
16th March 2014, 09:57 AM
No disrespect here Mr , but when your turning a half ton chunk of wood (which I have seen in one of your videos) do you think a plastic faceguard will save your noggin against an escaping lump of wood?. Personally I'd go for a full face motorcycle crash helmet. I'm sure you could fit one of those dust be gones under it.



I would feel very confident standing beside a lathe and massive pole that was setup by or another with that level of skill and experience. Would I turn the lathe on without checking and veryifying the setup myself - never! A high impact face shield, or a motorcycle helmet, will not save you from a catastrophic failure from a high mass high speed object. They will however mitigate the severity and type of the injury.

Knowledge, skill and preparation will certainly eliminate many of the hazards and reduce others to acceptable levels, and reduce the risks of injury and will mitigate the severity of injuries to almost impossible in many scenarios.

To an experienced turner the risk of a catastrophic failure becomes so low that they acept far higher risks in everday life, like driving a motor vehicle. Going gung ho with motorcycle helments or riot gear helmets / shields at the lathe (what next bomb suits?) is not the answer. Learning to implement strategies to eliminate/reduce hazards & risk is the answer. Using suitable <st1:stockticker><st1:stockticker>PPE</st1:stockticker></st1:stockticker> is only one a small part of that strategy.

Turners certainly do get killed turning - usually from a combination of hazards with high risk – inexperience, but not necessarily so; overconfidence; an unstable work piece; high lathe <st1:stockticker><st1:stockticker>RPM</st1:stockticker></st1:stockticker>; a simple distraction, error or missjudgement that results in a severe head injury rendering the injured turner incapable of raising an alarm or calling for assistance. Unfortunately an Australian turner died in a similar set of circumstances not that long back. There have been several turners killed worldwide in the past few years.

Death or very serious injury are real risks, however far more wood turners receive painfull minor injuries or more serious injuries / even amputations to hands, forearms, face, eyes and brow/head from a combination of events/missjudgements that are so easily avoidable. Some are very life changing events, like the loss of an eye or digits etc. The injury statistics kept by emergency departments confirm that - the most common injury to “woodworkers” and “steelworkers” - is a foriegn body in the eye.


BobL is 100% correct – inappropriate speed kills!

Its only a few decades back that we all thought motorcycle helmets and seat belts in vehicles were a draconian intrusion into our lives, then came air bags, side intrusion bars, vehicle stability control systems etc. We accept them and even insist a vehicle has them and a 5 star safety rating now! There is no doubting that those improvements have saved many lives, and so have the many road safety campaigns.

Woodturners foolishly resist taking basic steps to improve their safety at the lathe by wearing even wearing something so simple as safety spectacles.

Face shields are rarely worn, unless a turner perceives the task to be a high risk activity which is unfortunately usually confused with a very high probability of failure. Other readily available well known and documented risk minimisation strategies are either not known to the turner or ignored for some of the lamest excuses ever heard.

While turners choose and enjoy the challenges of hand turning they will always be exposed to some level of risk. There will always be unlikely but possible combinations of factors / events that change the risk profile. Well prepared turners certainly put the odds in their favour.

BobL
16th March 2014, 01:01 PM
Face shields are rarely worn, unless a turner perceives the task to be a high risk activity which is unfortunately usually confused with a very high probability of failure. Other readily available well known and documented risk minimisation strategies are either not known to the turner or ignored for some of the lamest excuses ever heard.

I don't know many turners or belong to any turning clubs etc but I would have thought this to be SOP for turning irrespective of the risk.

RETIRED
16th March 2014, 07:57 PM
What Moby said. The risk assessment (mentally) that goes into jobs like that is very intense and not taken lightly.

The problem with wearing a motorcycle, hockey or any other type of "rigid" helmet is that in a "3rd degree" accident is that it will probably break your neck before it absorbs any impact.

Mobyturns
16th March 2014, 08:08 PM
I don't know many turners or belong to any turning clubs etc but I would have thought this to be SOP for turning irrespective of the risk.

Bob, it should be but just look at photos taken at any collaboration style event or wood turning demonstrators in action even at very high profile AAW symposia. Not many face shield to be seen at all. Some actually have them in their kit but only use then if it gets a "bit risky".

BobL
16th March 2014, 08:30 PM
Bob, it should be but just look at photos taken at any collaboration style event or wood turning demonstrators in action even at very high profile AAW symposia. Not many face shield to be seen at all. Some actually have them in their kit but only use then if it gets a "bit risky".

Maybe everything I do in my shed is "risky"?
Come to think of it - maybe it is. :oo:

ndp_2010
17th March 2014, 11:46 AM
i got a uvex 'bionic' face shield, it also helps keep dust from coming up under the sheild and seems pretty solid.

http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S8510-Polycarbonate-Anti-Fog-Hardcoat/dp/B001VY3ACE

BobL
17th March 2014, 12:41 PM
Just for the record, the Uvex, and Honeywell shields are all 2D (curved around one direction) so to obtain strength in the 3rd dimension a frame is added around the shield. They are indeed very strong shields but the frame does add some weight, restricts vision, and they don't usually protect the neck as well as the true 3D shield. The Umatta shield is also 2D shield with a chin/neck guard added but as it has no frame around it, it won't be quite as strong as the others .A 3D shield does not need a frame because its 3D shape is sufficient to provide the necessary strength to meet specifications.

Once I tried a 3D face shield and felt how lightweight and unrestricted the view was, there was no going back to 2D shields.
I also use one for Chainsaw milling.
I reckon they also make good gifts for woodworkers.

DavidG
17th March 2014, 01:53 PM
Problem with a 3d face shield is that you can not put on the clear layer
that catches all the resin, gunk, wax, oil and other sticky stuff thrown at you
when wood turning.
The stickons are much cheaper than replacing the face shield part.

BobL
17th March 2014, 03:18 PM
Problem with a 3d face shield is that you can not put on the clear layer
that catches all the resin, gunk, wax, oil and other sticky stuff thrown at you
when wood turning.
The stickons are much cheaper than replacing the face shield part.

Good point. Although I haven't had a lot of problems keep the PC clean, a bigger problem for me seems to be scratches.
Invariably the shield falls off the bench or wherever that it always seems to land on its front so it gets scratched. A 2D shield with clear layer or a rim/edge might be able to protect the surface.
To get around this problem I have about a dozen large hooks set up all over the shed where I can hand the shield (and muffs) up when they are not being used.

Mobyturns
17th March 2014, 10:39 PM
Problem with a 3d face shield is that you can not put on the clear layer
that catches all the resin, gunk, wax, oil and other sticky stuff thrown at you
when wood turning.
The stickons are much cheaper than replacing the face shield part.

Don't be lulled into thinking face shields last for ever. Like safety helmets the harness should be replaced regularly - recommended at least before 5 years in industry.

Actually you can fit stickons to the Armadillo. The old Trend / Purelite stickons go over my Armadillo quite nicely as the curve in the Armadillo in both directions through the main viewing area is not that severe. The stickons will go over the polycarbonate shield with carefull placement. I keep a spare visor and consumables, stickons, main & pre-filters for the Trend & armadillo on hand.

I don't do much messy wet turning so I have no regular need to use the stickons. In any event the Armadillo is only $35 or thereabouts and you can purchase visor replacements through Prorector Alsafe http://www.protectoralsafe.com.au/part/03788610/visor-armadillo-replacement-clear. Very cheap insurance and much cheaper than one trip to the doctor. (Edit - replacement visor $11.50)

To be honest if you are spreading that much wax and oil about you are either turning the item to fast or you could save some money in product by slowing down the lathe. :rolleyes: The savings might even pay for a face shield and as speed increases risk you will be feeling much safer too..