Outboard turning - update

[BlackbuttWA]

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Finally got round to trying out the DIY stand.
It's a head from a drilling rig used in the mining sites up north. Piece of 50mm heavy tubing with a section of smaller tubing welded in to take the tool rest.
First 2 pics show a 320 x 30mm WA She-oak (Alocasuarina fraseriana) platter for comp.
Second pair pics show a 380 x 80 Camphor bowl. This was to big for backing plate so had to make a new one.

C & C Welcome
Enjoy
Col

[Pat]

Col, looks the part. How stable is it , when you have a chisel at the extremities of the rest? Looks like an awkward barsteward to move around, although you could roll yours, my tripod has to slide around the floor, as it is too heavy to lift.

I am going to "borrow" the idea of concentric rings on the backing plate, don't know why I did not think of that before.:doh:

[michael_m]

I like it. I'm toying with trying to make an outboard rest for my lathe, but haven't hit on a good way to make it stable. I like your solution though.

[chuck1]

looks like a solid bit of kit! everyone needs one! Will you be modifying it any more?

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Looks nice & solid! :2tsup:

I'm always a bit wary of using outboard stands where the rest overhangs the foot... even though I very rarely cut at the very end. Still, there are times I do, which is generally during an awkward cut. And awkward is when the likelihood of a nasty catch skyrockets. But that's just me, I guess.

[Tim the Timber Turner]

Looks nice & solid! :2tsup:

I'm always a bit wary of using outboard stands where the rest overhangs the foot

I agree.

This stand needs a bigger footprint.

You could get a serious dig in using a tool further out than the base diameter.

Just my 2 bobs worth.

Cheers

Tim:)

[artful bodger]

I'm with Tim and skewdamn. Bigger footprint. Looks like if you accidentally bumped it, it'd fall over.

[Mobyturns]

Col,

One of the things we as turners do well is solving one problem. However at times our solution creates a new hazard or does not reduce the risk sufficiently for the existing/remaining/new hazards to be considered "safe." All I am saying below is we must consider how our solution/s might create another set of hazards or fully address the existing hazards. Your solution may work well for you in your circumstances and be relatively safe within the constraints you have set for yourself.

Personally I have never been a fan of free standing tool rests that are not attached to the lathe for a number of reasons. Instability is the main reason and relative movement of the tool rest to lathe/work piece in the event of a catch another. Both are highly probable in reasonably common events.

To overcome those two hazards with a free standing mount we mostly rely upon weight at the base or increase the foot print of the base, however it is difficult and often impractical to get sufficient weight or a large enough footprint forward i.e. between the tool rest and the work piece / lathe, to prevent the tool rest / tool from being drawn into the spinning work piece / faceplate. The tool rest can move both fore and aft or rotate into the work piece. The rotation component either verticall or horizontally is difficult to overcome with free standing supports. Add to that the use of "buttons" to hold the work piece to the faceplate, possibly a relatively high lathe speed, and/or a memory lapse to “not use the outer edges of the tool rest” or fatigue.

We can easily start to build a combination of factors that in isolation are not that concerning but could quite easily combine to create a rather nasty and highly probable event that has potentially high consequences and quite possibly serious injury. Our solution may also introduce new hazard/s being the weight of the tool rest stand itself and the possibility of injury or strains in moving it about; or perhaps lull us into not moving it when we should to have a more stable cutting platform.

Risk mitigation and hazard reduction strategies focus upon elimination, substitution, isolation, engineering & admin in that order. So any solution should focus on eliminating as many hazards as we possible can. Your solution is an engineered solution that can be improved upon.

By using a lathe mounted tool rest and support mechanism we largely eliminate or substantially reduce the relative movement, rotation, and stability issues. In your case the lathe headstock quite possibly will rotate the full 180 degrees or may well slide to the end of the lathe bed.

This may permit a solution designed something like Woodfast’s outboard tool rests for the M910 or even the C1000 http://www.woodfast.com.au/index.php?p=1_5

or Vicmarcs V00861 Outboard Turning Attachment http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=545

With your current solution other simple controls like adding an additional two buttons to the face plate will add a little more certainty to the bowl staying in place should one button fail.

Sincerely hope this gives you a few ideas and options.

[BlackbuttWA]

Many thanks for all the comments, many of which I have taken on board.
Details of stand :- weight = 70kg ( 155lbs) or bloody heavy. Far too heavy to lift straight up, so I pull it onto one edge & wheel it to where I want it.
Base is 250mm diameter tapering to 130mm & is 500mm tall.
I do realise the force that can be generated especially when the 500mm backing plate is swinging round.
Toying with the idea of bracing it to the main stand, just trying to figure out the best way.

Cheers
Col

[Paul39]

Many thanks for all the comments, many of which I have taken on board.
Details of stand :- weight = 70kg ( 155lbs) or bloody heavy. Far too heavy to lift straight up, so I pull it onto one edge & wheel it to where I want it.
Base is 250mm diameter tapering to 130mm & is 500mm tall.
I do realise the force that can be generated especially when the 500mm backing plate is swinging round.
Toying with the idea of bracing it to the main stand, just trying to figure out the best way.

Cheers
Col

Col,

Here is an idea for bracing to the main stand. http://fromthetree.co.uk/_images/vb36.jpg

My thought is to get a pipe T that would slip over your existing upright, with a piece of pipe screwed into the side going toward the lathe, and another pipe slipped into that, attached to the lathe stand. The T and larger pipe would be drilled and tapped for a bolt to bear on the inner pipes to lock everything up.

Here is a Vicmarc version: http://www.vicmarc.com/img/lathes/Lathe%20Access/outboard-alone.jpg

Another solution: http://billswoodcreations.com/images/powermatic_ld_toolrest.jpg

Here is a discussion of outboard stands: https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?29576-Outboard-turning-stand

My own solution is lathes with more and more swing. I'm up to 28 inches on a home made one I bought but have not yet set up. I have a 20 inch (508 mm) swing short bed Woodfast that takes care of almost everything. The Hegner 175, 350mm swing, has a square tube long bed, so when I have an out of balance bowl blank the tool rest and tail stock are moving in different directions. Once the blank is more or less round, everything calms down.

This guy has a lathe for big stuff:https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=607&q=al+fried+wood+turner&oq=al+fried+wood+turner&gs_l=img.12...2928.23217.0.25666.26.14.0.12.12.0.257.3153.2-14.14.0....0...1ac.1.42.img..11.15.3133.UwesopqGHtg#facrc=_&imgrc=1BZnf4J1e6FLvM%253A%3B_StlDdC38QG4kM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.kentuckyfriedheartwood.com%252FNov2008Photos%252F1_1300_lb_log_for_VLVw.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.kentuckyfriedheartwood.com%252Fturning.htm%3B600%3B450

[Pat]

My outboard turning tool post.

[powderpost]

I have never been a fan of free standing tool post. In my opinion there should be a connection between the stand and the lathe. With a cutting technique there is considerable force pulling the rest into the bowl. Scraping techniques substantially reduce this issue.

Jim

[Tim the Timber Turner]

Any outboard attachment that bolts to the lathe without reaching the ground will not be as solid as one that transfers the feed-back from the tool directly into the ground.

With the bolt on type of set-up, a length of 4x2 cut to length and jammed between the ground and the underside of the tool rest improves things a bit.
A bit messy to reposition the tool rest but worth a try.
Don't try this with a free standing set up.

I have used a number outboard attachments including bolt onto the stand type, and freestanding.
My preference is for the Vicmarc type. It touches the ground and is also attached to the lathe.

My $0.02 worth.

Cheers

Tim:)

[powderpost]

Any outboard attachment that bolts to the lathe without reaching the ground will not be as solid as one that transfers the feed-back from the tool directly into the ground. Agreed.
My preference is for the Vicmarc type. It touches the ground and is also attached to the lathe. That is also my preference.
Tim:)

See we can agree on some things.. :)
JIm

[Tim the Timber Turner]

See we can agree on some things.. :)
Jim

Bugger.

Now you have me worried.:C

Much more fun to disagree.:rolleyes:

Now is taking a rest I need someone else to spar with.

Cheers mate.

Tim:)

[wheelinround]

Col, looks the part. How stable is it , when you have a chisel at the extremities of the rest? Looks like an awkward barsteward to move around, although you could roll yours, my tripod has to slide around the floor, as it is too heavy to lift.

I am going to "borrow" the idea of concentric rings on the backing plate, don't know why I did not think of that before.:doh:

Cause you didn't listen to what I had to say

[wheelinround]

My outboard turning tool post.

Mounted on a 1/2 to 1" steel plate about 2 1/2 ft dia that would or should be stable.

[NeilS]

If you only occasionally do some outboard turning:



A wide footed tripod with a bit of weight works OK. The tripod allows you to get closer into the tool post while maintaining stability with the spread of the 'pods'. They are a bit clunky to manoeuvre, but no more than some other options



Outriggers that hang off the lathe without a post to the floor are prone to vibration. They are OK for very light work, but most users only resort to outboard turning when they have something that is too large to fit inboard



Outriggers that are braced to the lathe and have a post to the floor are more stable but are slow to manoeuvre, which is OK if you are only doing a bit of outboard turning


If you do most of your turning outboard, as I do, IMO there is only one option; a dedicated outboard bed. They are both stable and as manoeuvrable as an inboard banjo, but unfortunately there are few lathes that have this option.

The back of headstock offerings have their disadvantages; reverse direction and/or chuck insert issues.

Side beds on swivel head lathes have a number of advantages; same rotation as inboard, standard tools, chucks and inserts. Their one disadvantage is that you can't turn extra large diameter pieces with the side bed in place. Not many of us turn that large, but you can always remove the side bed and use an outboard rig if you get a whim to do so.

My ideal lathe would be something like the child of the Woodfast C1000X (http://www.cwsonline.com.au/shop/item/woodfast-c1000x-variable-speed-lathe) with its side bed (but a bit underpowered) and the new Vicmarc VL240 (http://www.cwsonline.com.au/shop/item/vicmarc-vl240-short-bed-lathe) Swivel Head Short Bed Lathe. I'm disappointed that the new VL240 didn't come with a side bed option... but expect that would cost me a bit more than my $0.02 worth...:U