Has anyone tried turning ivory or shell?

[fudo133]

Hi everyone,

I'm an absolute novice to the world of lathes and turning, but am in the process of planning the construction for an art deco style desk i'm hoping to build in the next year or so.

As the desk i'm basing my design on uses ivory in its handles, escutcheons and foot caps, i'm wondering whether a possible natural alternative might be giant clam shell (Seems convenient since its dense, white and seems fairly stable + i've got a decent sized half of one).
Before i build my hopes up however, i thought it was best to ask the experts on here whether any one has had any experience with any similar materials and if so, whether there are any issues i should be aware of aside from the dangers of breathing in shell dust.

[powderpost]

Hi Fudo, I haven't ever used ivory, but I have turned a lot of bone. Ivory will be very difficult to get, it has been pretty much banned by most western countries. Ivory was outlawed in 1983, I think. You may get some by buying old artifacts, but that would be a very long shot. There is however an "alternative" ivory, actually polyester resin, available from 043Turning, one of the advertiser on the board. Shell is very abrasive and will defy traditional turning tools. I found the most successful way to make from shell for what I use, is to use abrasive type wheels.

Bone is easy enough to work, but takes a lot of preparation and acquiring suitable bone can be a problem. Which ever way you go, lung protection is essential.

Would suggest you look for some reproduction brass handles, would be a lot easier.

Jim

[Rod Gilbert]

Hi fudo133,
I have turned some small items from deer antler it turns quite well.
Regards Rod.

[Mobyturns]

Hi everyone,

I'm an absolute novice to the world of lathes and turning, but am in the process of planning the construction for an art deco style desk i'm hoping to build in the next year or so.

As the desk i'm basing my design on uses ivory in its handles, escutcheons and foot caps, i'm wondering whether a possible natural alternative might be giant clam shell (Seems convenient since its dense, white and seems fairly stable + i've got a decent sized half of one).
Before i build my hopes up however, i thought it was best to ask the experts on here whether any one has had any experience with any similar materials and if so, whether there are any issues i should be aware of aside from the dangers of breathing in shell dust.


Quite different materials ivory (dentine) vs clam shell (calcium carbonate a stone like material). Search for "Ivory alternatives" as there are natural palm seeds which may suit depending upon required size or visit this site http://www.ivoryalternative.com/

[dougturner]

Hi everyone,

I'm an absolute novice to the world of lathes and turning, but am in the process of planning the construction for an art deco style desk i'm hoping to build in the next year or so.

As the desk i'm basing my design on uses ivory in its handles, escutcheons and foot caps, i'm wondering whether a possible natural alternative might be giant clam shell (Seems convenient since its dense, white and seems fairly stable + i've got a decent sized half of one).
Before i build my hopes up however, i thought it was best to ask the experts on here whether any one has had any experience with any similar materials and if so, whether there are any issues i should be aware of aside from the dangers of breathing in shell dust.

If you are after pieces large enough for knobs, not handles, and are set on "ivory", there is an alternative: TAGUA NUTS pronounced TAR WA. It is sometimes called vegetable ivory and turns well. The nuts vary in size but are large enough for knobs. You would be better if you go this way, to purchase them personally, not by any sort of mail, as they are known to be hollow, with a void in some of them. They turn and polish well, and have that creamy colour of old ivory. Average size of those I have used is about 45 to 60 mm long and up to about 20mm diameter. I just sanded one end square(isn) on a disk sander, superglued them to a piece of scrap wood that fitted my pin jaws. Use sharp tools and a light touch, but just watch out for the hollow ones. For knobs, you can usually work around the hollow. Don't know about the escutcheons and foot caps as far as size goes. Polish with EEE and Shellawax as usual. In the Sydney area, we can buy them at Trend Timbers at Mulgrave, but I don't know if they are always available. Doug. :U

[dai sensei]

I have turned both. Plenty alternatives to ivory now since it is so hard to get hold of, but if you really want it, old pianos are a source albeit slim pieces that will need lamination. Plenty of shell about and I have turned quite a bit either in pieces or crushed then mixed with resins. Not with normal tools, as the shell with cut even HSS, so I use diamond tools and high quality garnet sand paper.

[fudo133]

This is most definitely true, though i've heard that tagua nuts tend to darken to brownish tones over time, and that many of them often have a hollow in the center.

Another reason i'm wanting to use the shell is because like ivory, its an entirely natural material rather than a synthetic, and i do generally prefer to avoid plastics and resins if i can....though i suppose there is always the option of mammoth ivory if i could find a way to get some pieces big enough for what i need over here.

I'd say all in all, for knobs, feet and escutcheons i'm probably in need of 17, 4cm x 3cm square blocks, 1, 6 cm x 1cm thick circular plate, and 4 more 5cm x 1cm circular plates. And that's without me wanting to copy the dentil inlays in the original!
So there's a bit of a need for something that's reasonably commonly available, and doesnt cost the earth, and at the very least, isn't likely to be seized and destroyed at the border if i try to buy it from overseas.

Here's the desk in question that i'm intending to more or less reproduce.

314037

[fudo133]

Though 13 of those 4x3cm blocks could probably be dispensed with/done instead with twice at many smaller pieces.

[dai sensei]

Sounds like bleached bone may be the way to go. Check out Bonnie Klien's web site and her notes on bone here: http://www.bonnieklein.com/Library/BovineIvoryColorHandout.pdf

[Christos]

It would be an interesting piece to reproduce. I am not sure and I think you would need to check on this but I think ivory is not allowed to be brought into Australia.

Hope you are able to find an alternative.

[hughie]

Shell is better carved as is bone.Ivory will turn very well and but getting some will near on impossible.
There a few good recipes on false ivory and another alternative is Corian you can quite often pick up off cuts from a kitchen maker . The beauty of it is that its readly glued up seamlessly and turns well.
I posted a false ivory recipe here http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=75610 sometime back

http://casf.com.au/

[robo hippy]

I had a rare privilege of a 3 day workshop with Allen and Stuart Batty. Allen has since had a stroke. He told the story of turning billiard balls from elephant ivory. It was a couple of years process, turning it down 1/64 of an inch or so at a time, letting it rest, then turning it down again. He also had a hollowed sphere with a dodecahedron (12 spots, or pentagons like the spots on a soccer ball), and it had a threaded box on the inside of it. It was also out of ivory. One of those pieces that leave you speachless. I think the restrictions for fossilized ivory (usually walrus tusk) are not what the ones for elephant ivory are.

robo hippy

[Sebastiaan56]

Ive turned Alt ivory a number of times for pens and finials. Ive also carved a few pendants from it. I really like it and it is a much better substitute than Tagua nuts. Tagua nuts need to be soaked for a few days if you are going to carve them. I have a few hanging around and they do brown off quite a bit. Alt Ivory also has striations which add to the effect. It is used in historical musical instrument restorations.

There are also very blonde timbers, Euro Maple and the like.