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knucklehead
23rd June 2005, 09:45 PM
It's got to be the simplest tool in the shed but buggered if I can get it to work!

Over the years I have heard so many people rave about the hot melt glue that I had to give it a try. Alas to no avail http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon8.gif.
I think there a several issues that foil all atempts to use the bloody stuff.
1 The glue dries in seconds. When putting half a dozen dobs of glue down by the time the last one is down the first is rock solid.
2. If I can assemble said item quickly it still doesn't bond strongly enough.

I have seen this glue used by wood turners so it can hold well, just not for me.

Anyone out there had good success with this stuff?

Ashore
23rd June 2005, 10:10 PM
Hot glue guns are great for craft and holding peg board hooks in but I would love to hear of other uses as I have one as well and apart from the two above uses don't use it for anything else.


The trouble with life is there's no background music.

MajorPanic
23rd June 2005, 10:48 PM
I've used HMG to bond small timber pieces to templates so they could be routed on the router table with a patten following bit. I've done this for years & never had a problem. :D

Pestmaster
23rd June 2005, 11:26 PM
MajorPanic,
do you ever run into staining problems with the glue ?

knucklehead
23rd June 2005, 11:29 PM
I've used HMG to bond small timber pieces to templates so they could be routed on the router table with a patten following bit. I've done this for years & never had a problem. :D
Major that's my point, everybody else seems to be able to get it to work. True to form Knucklehead is struggling.

Do you use a particular type of glue? I think the sticks I have may be junk.

Cagey
23rd June 2005, 11:32 PM
Make sure the glue is REALLY hot before squeezing out. if you are too impatient it wont be at most liquid state. Then go like hell if you have a lot to do.

cdm
24th June 2005, 12:30 AM
Yep - wot cagey said...

Wait till it's real hot. I don't think it matters on the type of glue sticks - I use the cheapest brand I can get from bunnings. In terms of other uses...

1. Use to glue cork clamping blocks to clamps (done this for ages)
2. Use for building mock ups / models etc
3. Use in conjunction with yellow glue to provide temporary hold whhilst yellow glue sets (thanks FWW)
4. Use for gluing together some plastics (the heat from the gun melts some plastics too...
5. Use to secure items to scrap to enable routing sawing etc with greater safety
6. Can also use as type of sealant, where waterproof seal is needed...

Just some alternative uses to start you off with. The humble old glue gun can do some amazing things - and quickly too....

See ya'll

Chris

gatiep
24th June 2005, 02:15 AM
The uses that Chris has mentioned as well as turning and heaps more. I did a multicentre project at the beginning of the month with some turning students where the blank, 175 square by 50 mm thick, was hot melt glued onto a 25 mm piece of MDF with an 85 mm diameter. This MDF disk was mounted on the screw chuck in 3 different centres all being 30 mm offcentre as well as one centre position. The lathes were walking all over the floor, 5 of them, but not one blank came off. I have used nany brands of hotmelt with varying success, but since I use the 300 mm hotmelt glue sticks that Carbatec Perth sells for about $1-10 each I have never had a blank come off. They seem to import these themselves as they usually have a huge box full of them. They have a very similar looking stick for about $5-00 for 12, but it is nowhere as good for turning. The stuff that you get with the glue gun is OK for glueing paper only!

The technique I use is: Get the glue really hot.......the gun needs about 10 minutes to melt some glue further back than the tip, otherwise the glue sets very quickly after application. At the right temperature the glue is crystal clear and almost as thin as water. When gluing a circle onto a blank, run a bead of glue close to the edge of the circle. There is no point in glueing on the centre as it will just twist off. Work fast and press the 2 bits
you are glueing together as tight as possible. Thick bits of hotmelt has no strength. It doesn't penetrate the substrate but the strength lies in a thin layer over as big an area as possible and the further from the center the better. Make shure that the fit between the two areas you want to bond is good.
It is good for primary holding of blanks onto a sacrificial piece of wood, although I use mainly MDF for the blocks. If you have finished turning a project and it is polished with a good wax or Shellawax, the project can be hotmelt glued onto a faceplate to buff, turn the base, spigott or recess off. Once it is done, just use a hammer and a chisel, parallel to the face of the face plate ( metal or wood or MDF ) and wedge it between the glue and plate to get the project off.( The layer of glue protects the project from being marked by the chisel). Then simply peel the hotmelt off the polished surface with your fingers...........as easy as 1,2,3 ! I glue ceramic tiles onto wood with hotmelt. If you want to remove the tile, just heat the tile slowly with a hot air gun, or SWMBO's hairdryer, the glue will soften and you can remove the tile. Handy to remove metal bits that have been hotmelted.
That sloppy jam chuck you made.........stick the project in with hotmelt. Works well as a sealer but not for things like acetone or thinners. On wood, the above can be used to remove traces of hotmelt.
I use it instead of the brown paper glue joint for inside-out turning, square bowls etc etc, wherever I dont want a permanent bond. Glue a screw onto a screwdriver or a nut into a socket if you want to install it in hard to get places.
Good quality hotmelt is magic stuff, just let your imagination run and give it a go. The secret is in covering the largest area possible ( within reason ) and applying pressure to squeeze as much of the glue out as possible, remember it holds on the surface only and does not penetrate! I start turning the blanks within 2 minutes of glueing them onto the disc.
Keep the hot stuff away from fingers, skin etc because it is a very painful burn and blisters develop almost immediately.
If you get a new supply, test it before you trust it.........for that reason I only buy my supply from the mentioned supplier in Perth.
Hope you guys & girls find these notes useful.

MajorPanic
24th June 2005, 05:01 PM
Major that's my point, everybody else seems to be able to get it to work. True to form Knucklehead is struggling.

Do you use a particular type of glue? I think the sticks I have may be junk.
I don't know Knucklehead,

When I bought the gun years ago I also bought a box of glue sticks. These have lasted me for a number of years.
As I recall it is a Bostich gun & the glue sticks were also Bostich.
Sorry I can't be more help. :o

Driver
24th June 2005, 05:13 PM
Joe

That's one of the most useful posts I've read for a while. I'm not a woodturner but your advice on how hot melt glue works etc has got me thinking. That old glue gun has been lying unused in the shed for a while. Now I can find several different uses for it! Thanks. I've sent you a greenie in the usual way!

Col

mic-d
24th June 2005, 07:22 PM
Make sure you get the sticks with a slightly yellowish tinge to them they are much better than the whitish ones that feel more like silicone and are better for sealing tasks rather than adhesive.
I found it is invaluable for mounting straight edges for tiling where you cannot screw because of w/p membranes.

CHeers
Michael

knucklehead
24th June 2005, 08:49 PM
Thanks, guys I think we are on to something.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif
Gatieps description of what the glue should look like tells me that my gun is just not getting hot enough. Also the glue sticks I am using are probably not the best.
So its off to buy a decent glue gun (Bosctich) and some of the Carbatec glue sticks. That should well and truly have it sorted.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif

Darn another tool that needs buying, you guys will send my broke!

Justin
24th June 2005, 09:29 PM
I find hotmelt is great for making sure that mirrors don't float around inside a rebated picture frame. A right angled bead in the gaps at the corners, and a small bead in the middle.


Cheers,


Justin.

Shaty40
25th June 2005, 10:26 AM
As Driver said!

There is a glue gun somewhere in my shed, it is just a matter of finding it and getting some sticks for it.

I thought they were mainly used in craft applications.

Tim:D :D

MathewA
25th June 2005, 06:52 PM
Hot glue guns are great for craft and holding peg board hooks in but I would love to hear of other uses as I have one as well and apart from the two above uses don't use it for anything else.


The trouble with life is there's no background music.




HMG works very well for securing drawer fronts on kitchen and bath cabinets and then screwed from the back. When the glue is nice and hot it gives me a enough time to move the drawer front into just the right position before it cools. If you have a large kitchen job with lots of drawers it makes the job go much quicker and easier.

MathewA
25th June 2005, 06:54 PM
Maybe you have a gun thats no good - can't get the glue hot enough.

routermaniac
25th June 2005, 07:25 PM
I too never had any luck with my crappy chinese glue gun, I may try and update too.

MajorPanic
25th June 2005, 08:32 PM
HMG works very well for securing drawer fronts on kitchen and bath cabinets and then screwed from the back. When the glue is nice and hot it gives me a enough time to move the drawer front into just the right position before it cools. If you have a large kitchen job with lots of drawers it makes the job go much quicker and easier.
Mat,

What a bloody great idea!!!! http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif

It would of saved me a heap of time when I did the Q&D workshop Cabinet #1

Once you get to Oz you better G.Y.A.D.T.M.W.S** for a welcoming visit! ;) :D




** Get yer arz down to my work shop. :eek: ;) :D :D

soundman
25th June 2005, 10:56 PM
I can reinforce the must get it hot issue.
I've used heaps of it for assembling speaker crossovers. If you have a cheap glue gun it will take quite some time to get hot. Then if you are doing a bit of work the gun hasn't got the guts to recover fast enough & you have to wait for it to get back up to temp.
I've been promising myself a up market machine for ages but there have been more important things.
You can buy long sticks about 450mm long from a number of places in bulk (i think they are bostik) & they fit most of the cheap guns. I gen mine form SMS fabrics at newstead & buy by the Kg. Some of the cabinet supply companies and almost all the upholstery supply companies will have it in bulk.

One other thing is that hot melt has no tolerance for dirty surfaces.

Remelting it once placed can be a usefull thing at times too.
Place a dab with the glue gun then reheat it later by some devious means.
couple of examples.
I repair cut & damaged cables by putting some hot melt in the cut & then putting heatshrink tube over. heating the tube also remelts the glue.

some people mount on the lathe with aluminium pucks or used video heads by heating up the puck & placing it on the job with the glue already placed.

Lets face it its the chipboard of glues but it can be prety versatile & usefull.
cheers

scooter
28th June 2005, 01:45 AM
Concur a lot of the comments, old man has a 20yo Bostik gun, I bought the same model last year from bunnings, works well and creates a surprisingly strong bond.

Those little guns from the cheapo shops are a waste of time for anything other than paper & cardboard IMO.

HMG is good for quickly gluing the kids shed creations to get them off your case... :)


Cheers..............Sean, stuck on you

knucklehead
28th June 2005, 01:35 PM
Just as I thought I had it all figured out........

http://www.bostik.com.au/distribution_page_stuff/industrial_stuff/industrial_hotmelt_page.htm

Turns out that they make the sticks for a heap of differnt applications. However I have never seen the different types being sold.

PAH1
28th June 2005, 03:07 PM
Just as I thought I had it all figured out........

Turns out that they make the sticks for a heap of differnt applications. However I have never seen the different types being sold.

Most of those types are sold by the 20kg pack of pellets rather than sticks, there are only a few that are as sticks at the bottom of the page.

Ashore
28th June 2005, 03:23 PM
MathewA
Thanks for the tip yours and the others posted
I can now see lots more uses for the glue gun
As to drawer fronts I use to use brads from an air gun that came through about 1mm into the front gave me a little movement while I screwed but like your idea much much better a lot easier to set with all the drawers closed.


Rgds
Russell
God must love stupid people; He made so many of us

MajorPanic
28th June 2005, 04:49 PM
Pretty cool looking nug! :cool:

http://www.dta-aus.com.au/media/images/products/260_lrg.jpg

gatiep
28th June 2005, 10:03 PM
Won't stay "cool or cool looking" for long in the shed!

:D

gatiep
28th June 2005, 10:55 PM
Over the weekend I did some turning for a lady customer. She bought a variety of rough sawn wood, lopped them into 450 mm lengths and glued them together with some epoxy glue. The ends were not flush, large gaps between the strips and there was a hole through the length of the blank where she knocked off the corners of 4 pieces to form a hole ( for the cord ). She was going to shape it to a lamp base with a plane, but soon gave up. I was asked to turn the two of them to some sort of lamp base that she described. The two blanks were the same length but not the same size. The diagonal from corner to corner was about 300 mm accross. The first problem was the odd shaped hole at the ends which were not centered. The second was that the diameter of the 10 Kg+ blank did not leave enough space for the lathe banjo to fit between the blank and the bed.

The first one was overcome by hot melt gluing two bits of MDF about 35 mm x 35 mm square onto the ends and over the holes. The second was overcome by winding the tailstock quill out far enough so that the banjo could fit between the end of the blank and the tailstock body. Winding out the quill that far with a heavy block between centers is not something I like doing. One of these blanks never spun in a balanced way even though it was turned perfectly round, the reason being that she used different density timbers in the glue up and the one side was much heavier than the other. I used my Hamlet 32 mm roughing gouge to turn them. The larger/heavier/more out of balance one was eventually spun to a max of 450 rpm after it was turned round and ready for sanding. The smaller/ balanced one was spun up to 1200 for sanding. I used a Vermec power sander with 120 grit paper, as she will still be filling some of the gaps with black epoxy and then finish sand it by hand.

Ok the reason for this story here is to show you guys how well hot melt glue actually works!
Two little squares of 35 mm x 35 mm MDF glued over the approx 10 mm x 10 mm square holes, held the about 10 KG + unbalanced, out of round blanks for turning. There's a variety of wood in the blanks like jarrah, sheoak, Aust Oak, White Oak, Western Red Cedar etc all mixed in each blank. I just covered one face of each little square of MDF with hot melt glue, pushed it down on the pre determined approximate centre, then pushed down hard to get the glue line as thin as possible. I used the MDF as it gave me a flat surface covering the hole but also in the event of a catch, yeah we all get them when we least expect, the MDF acts as a clutch and the blank will just stop. Because of all the gaps between the strips, there was a chance of the blank shattering. Anyway, in the pictures you'll be able to see how well the MDF held up, and it was easy to turn some of it down together with the ends at the end while squaring up the ends.

Pic 1: The blank ( small one ) still partly square

Pic 2:(After editing this is now the last picture ) The small MDF block on the uneven end of the blank, covering the hole.

Pic 3: The spur drive end after turning, filling the gaps and sanding with the power sander with 120 grit only. The end squared off and the block partly parted off. Note the slight damage on the MDF face by the spur drive.

Pic 4: The live centre end, also partly parted off, after squaring up. Note how the hot melt glue oozed out when the MDF was pushed down.

Pic 5: The smallest of the two bases, ready for removing from the lathe. No finish was applied as the customer will do the finishing by hand.

I trust that the above plus the pictures proves the point that hot melt is a very useful product in woodturning.

++**++ The usual disclaimer applies.........you do this at your own risk, blah, blah, blah............."do not attempt at home" kind of thing as they say on the telly! ++**++

knucklehead
4th July 2005, 06:22 PM
Well thanks for your input guys, just bought a new hot melt glue gun and it works a treat.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon10.gif
It was a dirty cheap Nicholsons one (yes the file makers) but seems to work for the small jobs I do.
It is a 65 watt model and cost a grand total of $17 from Bunnies.

Dean
5th July 2005, 12:56 AM
I use it to re-seal boxes. Works great. Better than tape! ;)

Pestmaster
5th July 2005, 01:07 AM
When the rubber/plastic feet of my folding ladder gave up, I couldn't find any replacements, so I manufactured some timber inserts to slide inside the aluminium section legs and HMG'd some relacement rubber feet on, they've been there ever since

Hickory
18th February 2006, 08:04 AM
MathewA made a statement:
HMG works very well for securing drawer fronts on kitchen and bath cabinets and then screwed from the back. When the glue is nice and hot it gives me a enough time to move the drawer front into just the right position before it cools.

Was Lurking and reading up on some stuff to see what this forum was like when I came across your post. "Exactly what I needed to know" I am in the process of securing drawer faces to some cabinets I have been building for my son's garage. As a rule I tack the faces on with a brad gun but that leaves holes that must be filled, etc.

I tried the hot glue and it took longer for the gun to heat up than it took to complete the task. WOW!:eek: , thanks for that suggestion:) I"ll remember that from now on. Only did 3 but was I impresed with the results.


BTW, I have just started here and from the posts I have read, I'm going to like this place.

Bill "Hickory" Simpson
Retired WWing Teacher
Unpaid Laborer

Petebass
24th March 2006, 03:24 PM
I've used heaps of it for assembling speaker crossovers. +1, It works great for capacitors, and on inductors wound on to plactic spools. But I learned the hard way not to use it on metal inductors, especially heavy ones. The metal conducts the heat too well. All you need is a hot Aussie summer's day and before you know it, the glue is liquid again and the inductor falls off.

chrisb691
24th March 2006, 08:41 PM
Great for repairing vertical blinds where the stitching at the bottom has gone, and the weight has dropped out. A thin bead of HM along the stitch line, and the joins lasts longer than the original stitching.

Chris Parks
25th March 2006, 01:23 AM
I use HMG mostly when wiring trailers. Holds the wire where I want it and is inconspicuous. We would otherwise have to drill holes and use P clips which are a pain. It is useful as a third hand when doing any sort of job.

noodle_snacks
29th March 2006, 06:27 PM
+1, It works great for capacitors, and on inductors wound on to plactic spools. But I learned the hard way not to use it on metal inductors, especially heavy ones. The metal conducts the heat too well. All you need is a hot Aussie summer's day and before you know it, the glue is liquid again and the inductor falls off.

use some cable ties as well

Petebass
30th March 2006, 07:26 AM
use some cable ties as wellYep that's what I ended up doing.

soundman
30th March 2006, 12:22 PM
I rarely rely on hot melt alone to secure crossover components, but it is great for just stopping things from mooving arround under their straps.

I've seen plenty of hot melt failures in commercial crossovers.

cheers