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View Full Version : Garret Wade 202 GF - too glue up table top



aabb
26th June 2005, 06:22 PM
High guys

I almost ready to glue up panels (7) for hall table-top -(using biscuits for alignment) and have been considering what glue to use. Have spent some time searching on this BB and have come to think that Garret Wde 202 F (where do I get it ?) may be the way to go --

You opinions please ...

Is this the best glue to use - or what other would you recommend ?

How long would I have to complete work ?

Thanks in advance

NewLou
26th June 2005, 06:54 PM
GLues are usually bout hoarses for courses n I'm sure you'll find that we all have our own favourate Glue that we keep using!!

............Some use a certain type or brandname of glue because they have always used the same glue since they first started woodworking and have seen no reason to change............others because they have have gone through a number of different glue types and found the one that works best for them.

.............Fact is all modern glue types will do the Job and do it well particularly with long grain to long grain glueups. Check out this article.......is a good read on all things GLue:

http://www.newwoodworker.com/useglue.html

Personally I use Garret n Wade 202 n have found it a great glue!! had no problems with it and have found it easy to clean up!!!

REgards Lou

barryr
26th June 2005, 07:02 PM
Either Yellow Glue (PVr) or Durabond (Polyurethane) should do the job fine , probably lean towards a good PVr like Titebond 2 !

that should say PVR , not PVA as I originally wrote

Samson13
26th June 2005, 07:26 PM
Barry

Do you class glues such as Selleys Aquadhere (which is what I almost always use) and othe white PVA glues as yellow glues? I read the article that New Lou referred to and it didn't mention ordinary white PVA glues as such. I am a bit confoosed.

Samson13

Gumby
26th June 2005, 07:31 PM
Samson, the yellow glue is a stronger bond than the white. For instance, I think Triton premium (which is a yellow glue) boasts about 30% stronger than the white glues.There is a difference.

more for more info go here:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/smart_consumer/1274621.html

fletty
26th June 2005, 07:49 PM
I use Garrett Wade 202GF for just about everything, in fact I received 2 more bottles on Friday. You can get it from www.patricksandkent.com, BUT when I glued up my laminated bench top recently I used Titebond III because it boasts a 10 minute open time and, having been born with 2 left feet instead of hands, I needed all the time I could get.
It worked very well, I brushed it on and assembled 7 at a time to make 4 larger panels that I later glued together. Its other great advantage (particularly for a workbench) is that it is waterproof.
Fletty

MajorPanic
26th June 2005, 08:51 PM
Go ahead & use it!!

It'll be fine. I've used lots of 202GF glue over the years & haven't had a problem! ;) :D

Samson13
26th June 2005, 09:14 PM
Thanks Gumby. I'm now de-foosed. It seems that with complicated and/or fiddly glue ups where a longer open time is important, white glue is the way to go unless yellow glue's higher strength is important. Is there any white glue that has an appreciably longer open time than others?

Gumby
26th June 2005, 11:31 PM
Thanks Gumby. I'm now de-foosed. It seems that with complicated and/or fiddly glue ups where a longer open time is important, white glue is the way to go unless yellow glue's higher strength is important. Is there any white glue that has an appreciably longer open time than others?

Sorry, I don't know the answer to that last question. I would suspect that nearly everybody into serious woodworking uses yellow or 202GF.

journeyman Mick
27th June 2005, 12:27 AM
I use epoxy for most of my work, can get it with slow, normal or fast hardener.

Mick

Rocker
27th June 2005, 03:08 AM
I agree with Mick on epoxy for table tops and glued up panels. PVA glues have a tendency to creep and thus to produce an annoying rib along the glue line, especially if the glue line is thick, as when the boards are not perfectly jointed. Techniglue epoxy with a slow hardener gives you at least 30 minutes to complete the glue up. It is gap-filling, and comes as a gel which does not drip, so it is a lot less messy than many glues.

Rocker

aabb
27th June 2005, 09:29 AM
Thanks guys for advice -and for the links which I found very useful.

I have not yet decided on finish for table (wait for further questions down the line !!) but can I assume that the above mentioned glues will allow for any normal finish assuming proper cleanup. I read something somewhere about black lines along joints which would not be too good- is this a concern ? Im using Vic Ash.

Regards

Albert
Albert

NewLou
27th June 2005, 09:42 AM
Rocker

Although Epoxy is no doubt a great option it could be argued that for these types of glueups Epoxy is overkill!..............Epoxy is probably better put to use where the specific Join is under considerable stress or when requiring to do metal/wood glueups etc etc You'll often see master woodworker David Marks using epoxy's under these circumstances.

Many of the Modern generation PVA glues do not suffer from creep and would do the Job just fine. Heres some more information on Glues:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=BuyGuide/GlueGuide.html

Garret n Wade 202 does not suffer from creep and has got great results in past head to head tests with other glue types. If glueup time is a major issue you could use a plastic resin glue that will also give good results............At the end of the day whats probably even more important than the glue used is that you:

1. Do a dry Fit!
2. Prep you clamping strategy
3. Use marking tape to collect squeezout
4. Prep cleanup rags water toothbrush etc etc so that squeezout can be easily cleaned up!!!

You'll be amazed how preping your glueup & clamping strategy will help things run a lot smoother & lead to a cleaner glueup!!!!!

REgards Lou

Rocker
27th June 2005, 01:40 PM
Thanks guys for advice -and for the links which I found very useful.

I have not yet decided on finish for table (wait for further questions down the line !!) but can I assume that the above mentioned glues will allow for any normal finish assuming proper cleanup. I read something somewhere about black lines along joints which would not be too good- is this a concern ? Im using Vic Ash.

Regards

Albert
Albert

Albert,

Dark glue lines are a problem only with resorcinol glue, which is normally used for outdoor furniture or in wet areas, since it is completely waterproof.

Rocker

aabb
27th June 2005, 02:16 PM
Albert,

Dark glue lines are a problem only with resorcinol glue, which is normally used for outdoor furniture or in wet areas, since it is completely waterproof.

Rocker
Thanks Rocker,,,,,I better stop talking bout it and go out and glue it !

Albert

MajorPanic
27th June 2005, 08:02 PM
Epoxy is a really strong glue, for sure!
But,
I wouldn't use it for display furniture, it leaves a DARK glue line which I find quite poor for good quality furniture.
If you are joining boards to make a top for a table, for example, I would consider glue lines very poor qulaity work.

Glues can be matched to the job at hand. Don't get me worng I use epoxy as well but not where it will be noticeable.

Rocker
28th June 2005, 08:28 AM
Epoxy is a really strong glue, for sure!
But,
I wouldn't use it for display furniture, it leaves a DARK glue line which I find quite poor for good quality furniture.
If you are joining boards to make a top for a table, for example, I would consider glue lines very poor qulaity work.


Major,

I have to take issue with you. I used epoxy to glue up this table top, and the glue lines are invisible, apart from the change in grain pattern, because I took care to ensure that the boards were properly jointed, so as to leave no gaps between them; so there is no dark glue line. If you do use PVA for glueing up table tops and panels, careful jointing can minimize the creep/ribbing problem, but, if the jointing is less than perfect, creep is a big worry with PVA.

Rocker

Richardwoodhead
28th June 2005, 11:48 PM
Nice table top Rocker. What timber?

Major, re epoxy & glue lines... It took me years of using epoxy for gluing panels & table tops (West System: www.westsystem.com) to realise I was using too much epoxy - which was causing the noticable glue line. Using only a VERY thin film of epoxy on each surface gives a strong and invisible glue line. Also, I was mixing in too much thickening agent to make the glue more viscous. This is OK for structural & gap filling joins, but unnecessary for panels. So now I use very little and very runny epoxy (flows like PVA or yellow glue) and I great invisible glue lines like Rocker. And they are VERY strong. And I have at least 30 minutes of open time before clamping. Which takes most of the stress out of glue jobs. For me anyway.

Richard

Rocker
29th June 2005, 08:14 AM
Nice table top Rocker. What timber?

Richard

Richard,

It is an unusually red board of Jarrah. See http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=18559

Rocker

Trav
29th June 2005, 11:07 AM
aabb - I used titebond II. I also use the triton yellow glue because I have a bottle of it in the shed.

I suspect that as long as you use a good brand (either of the above are good), it doens't make too much difference. IMHO epoxy is a bit of overkill - the others will do the job fine and are cheaper and easier to use.

Trav

aabb
29th June 2005, 11:17 AM
Thank Trav and everyone else.. the top was put into one piece yesterday and is still in one piece today! - used triton glue as that was only one mentioned in posts that bunnies in Fyshwick had when I visited.

I am very pleased with result and much less sanding will be required than I had imagined.... ie no need for thickneser or planing thankfully.

Rocker
29th June 2005, 11:44 AM
Albert,

I suggest that, since you have used a PVA glue, before you apply the finish to your table top, you leave it for a week or two, and keep the top in a warm environment in the house, so that any creep and consequent ribbing of the glue lines can happen, and then be sanded flat.

Rocker

MajorPanic
29th June 2005, 05:52 PM
Major,

I have to take issue with you. I used epoxy to glue up this table top, and the glue lines are invisible, apart from the change in grain pattern, because I took care to ensure that the boards were properly jointed, so as to leave no gaps between them; so there is no dark glue line. If you do use PVA for glueing up table tops and panels, careful jointing can minimize the creep/ribbing problem, but, if the jointing is less than perfect, creep is a big worry with PVA.

Rocker
Rocker,

The top looks great & I don't see any glue lines.
It's just that I've seen quite a few poor quality glue ups using epoxy.



Major, re epoxy & glue lines... It took me years of using epoxy for gluing panels & table tops (West System: www.westsystem.com (http://www.westsystem.com/)) to realise I was using too much epoxy - which was causing the noticable glue line. Using only a VERY thin film of epoxy on each surface gives a strong and invisible glue line. Also, I was mixing in too much thickening agent to make the glue more viscous. This is OK for structural & gap filling joins, but unnecessary for panels. So now I use very little and very runny epoxy (flows like PVA or yellow glue) and I great invisible glue lines like Rocker. And they are VERY strong. And I have at least 30 minutes of open time before clamping. Which takes most of the stress out of glue jobs. For me anyway.
I reckon Richard is on to the solution!
If you are gluing panels they should be properly jointed as you say Rocker. Therefore you wouldn't need any filler in the epoxy. If you use very little glue you should no or little glue lines.

aabb
29th June 2005, 06:09 PM
Albert,

I suggest that, since you have used a PVA glue, before you apply the finish to your table top, you leave it for a week or two, and keep the top in a warm environment in the house, so that any creep and consequent ribbing of the glue lines can happen, and then be sanded flat.

Rocker
Thanks Rocker for advice - will do ...

Albert