hollowing technique help!!!!!!

[wilkeswood]

Hi guys,
I'm new to turning and I only have what would be called basic chisels, Roughing gouge, Skew, Round nose, a couple bowl gouges. I have been teaching my self how to make hollow forms, bowls, vases etc. But when Im' hollowing out the interior of the deeper items my chisels keep catching and taking bit chunks out and I even shattered a bowl in half yesterday trying to hollow it. I have an old dale l nish book that was printed in 1980 but I think the technique is still relevant. Therefore I'm trying to implement these techniques but i keep chunking up and now it's beginning to make me nervous every time I start hollowing out which is not what I want.

[hughie]

Not having seen the book I can only guess you may need to vary your bevel angle. Also if your going under the lip conventional gouges wont do it and its a guaranteed catch.

Better still show us a couple pics of what your trying to do along with your tools, all good we have all been down this path at one time or another

[Christos]

You did not mention scrapers as part of your tools?

Personally I have not done any deep hollow forms and only one piece( a potpourri) that would have been better if I took out more from under the lip. The cuts to the outer walls were done via a scrapper and the tool was coming from the other side of the lathe.

[Rod Gilbert]

+1 What Hughie said.
Regards Rod.

[Woodturnerjosh]

I also agree with what Hughie said but maybe you cold put up some photos of you're gouges? and maybe a photo of the forms you're having trouble with?
Regards

Josh

[wilkeswood]

Okay, here are the tools, Lathe, and the latest broken bowl. It was held by a three jaw chuck that came with the Lathe (which I think is part of the problem) although I mostly hold them with a screwed faceplate and that definitely holds stronger. I basically get one of the very left tools of the first pic and work from out side in. I have tried to give all of the tools a crack and have found the round nose one to be less likely to catch but it doesn't take bugger all wood, just fine dust basically. I am also aware that my tools aren't crazy sharp but I do have a diamond wheel a couple of steps away and do keep them as sharp as I can and just kept the blade shapes as I got them.

I appreciate all the help guys I am humbled by how many of you are nice enough to take the time out to help out a clueless 30 year old.

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[wilkeswood]

Not having seen the book I can only guess you may need to vary your bevel angle. Also if your going under the lip conventional gouges wont do it and its a guaranteed catch.

Better still show us a couple pics of what your trying to do along with your tools, all good we have all been down this path at one time or another

I'm sorry but I don't know what bevel angle is and what going under the lip means also…… As I said I'm self taught and don't know bugger all, sorry.

[wood hacker]

Hi Wilkeswood

Where abouts in Brisbane are you situated? I don't claim to be an expert but if you need some help / advice I'm happy to help out. Drop me a PM if you're interested.

cheers
WH

[smiife]

Okay, here are tgls,Lathe,
nd the latest broken bowl. It was held by a three jaw chuck that came with the Lathe (which I think is part of the problem) although I mostly hold them with a screwed faceplate and that definitely holds stronger. I basically get one of the very left tools of the first pic and work from out side in. I have tried to give all of the tools a crack and have found the round nose one to be less likely to catch but it doesn't take bugger all wood, just fine dust basically. I am also aware that my tools aren't crazy sharp but I do have a diamond wheel a couple of steps away and do keep them as sharp as I can and just kept the blade shapes as I got them.

I appreciate all the help guys I am humbled by how many of you are nice enough to take the time out to help out a clueless 30 year old.

322528322529322530322531

Hi wilkeswood,
Use your screw chuck first to hold the blank
and shape the bottom of the bowl and put on
a tenon/foot to fit your jaws on the chuck and then
turn the whole thing around and hollow out the Inside
I would suggest using chisel no. 3 and no.5 only!!!!!!
and get a decent sharpening system , these chisels
have to be super sharp,,,, as you work your way in to
the bowl move your tool rest in as you go, you should
be able to do it with the scraper to the depth you want
hope this helps, I am sure others will help , this is just
the way I would do it with the tools you have, gently
gently approach will also help......good luck!!

[hughie]

Okay, here are the tools, Lathe, and the latest broken bowl. It was held by a three jaw chuck that came with the Lathe (which I think is part of the problem) although I mostly hold them with a screwed faceplate and that definitely holds stronger. I basically get one of the very left tools of the first pic and work from out side in. I have tried to give all of the tools a crack and have found the round nose one to be less likely to catch but it doesn't take bugger all wood, just fine dust basically. I am also aware that my tools aren't crazy sharp but I do have a diamond wheel a couple of steps away and do keep them as sharp as I can and just kept the blade shapes as I got them.

I appreciate all the help guys I am humbled by how many of you are nice enough to take the time out to help out a clueless 30 year old.

322528322529322530322531
Well looking at your tools I suspect you dont have a sharpening jig and they are mostly old and so probably not HSS. Its a bit hard to determine the the type of grind you have there, but what I can see is not encouraging :U

Looking at the red bowl and all the rough area, this is called tear out and I suspect your tools aren't as sharp as they could be, also to get on top of this sort thing you need light cuts from a razor sharp tool.

I think what you need is to take up Wood whackers offer and get you tools sorted out first. If the tools are blunt, wrong angles and not HSS your timber will go on eating up the edge and any turning will be hard work and most likely keep going the same way .

[Evanism]

I love turning bowls. They will punish you if you aren't focused, the technique is dodgy or tools aren't very sharp.

If you have ADHD, you gotta take your pills before hand! One stray thought/moment while doing the inside and BAM!!!! Colossal catch - guaranteed.

There are a few good videos on youtube, but seriously, if someone makes an offer to visit or to go over, take it up. A few short lessons makes a significant difference.

Looks like a big catch you had there. Those big breaks have a habit of flying directly at your head - and it WILL take a chunk out of you. Obtain a high impact face shield. They are ~$35.

[Woodturnerjosh]

I could be mistaken (and am happy to be corrected) but none of your gouges look like bowl gouges to me so may not be suitable for the job.
I've always found woodturners to be a friendly breed so if you can take someone up on their offer to help it might be worth it.
Cheers
Josh

[ian thorn]

Join a club the help you will get is more than the cost and could be cheaper that the doctor's bill. There is nothing wrong with older type steel tools they just don't hold an edge as long as the newer metal's. As said b a good shield and take up the kind offer of help if you can.

And don't use chisel No 4 on bowl it is a spindle gouge the tang may snap if you get a catch.

[tea lady]

I could be mistaken (and am happy to be corrected) but none of your gouges look like bowl gouges to me so may not be suitable for the job.
I've always found woodturners to be a friendly breed so if you can take someone up on their offer to help it might be worth it.
Cheers
JoshNo. None of them look like bowl gouges, but you should still be able to do that shallow bowl with them.


Join a club the help you will get is more than the cost and could be cheaper that the doctor's bill. There is nothing wrong with older type steel tools they just don't hold an edge as long as the newer metal's. As said b a good shield and take up the kind offer of help if you can.

And don't use chisel No 4 on bowl it is a spindle gouge the tang may snap if you get a catch.Hmm. Not quite the reason why you shouldn't use them on a bowl. Spindle roughing gouges are usually sharpened straight across and is it a little easy for the wing to catch.

Anyway, joining a club would be a quick way to get sorted.

Carbon chisels are ok. The edge just doesn't last as long as HSS, but its only like 10 % less so will do untill you really need some new tools.

The pieces look like they broke just near te end of the process. Which is always the way. When the wood is thin it will flex as it is spinning. So when you are just taking the last cut the bowl will hit the chisel.

[jefferson]

I agree with all that has been said thus far but would add that the piece of wood that split in two may have done so, even in expert hands. Check the knot there. Danger, danger. A shame you are not closer to Victoria, that's where a lot of the best teachers reside. But I am sure you will find good advice up your way. Vicmarcs at almost every club.

[tea lady]

I agree with all that has been said thus far but would add that the piece of wood that split in two may have done so, even in expert hands. Check the knot there.
Yes. The knot does make it a little tricky to decide which way the grain is going. And also adds some extra hard end grain wood to the mix. Maybe dig out a nice boring straight grained bit to practice on. And maybe slightly softer than red gum? :)

[Mobyturns]

WW,
We need to go right back to basics on this one.

1. The "bowl" you are attempting to turn is not a "bowl", in the traditional sense. Photos 3 and 4 clearly show a split "along the grain" of the blank & not "across the grain." The nature of the tear out in photo 4 is also consistent with "end grain hollowing." Chunks have been torn from the end grain all the way around the blank. Normally for a blank in "bowl orientation" the tear out would be more pronounced on only two "sides" of the blank where there is end grain. This blank orientation & turning is more like what turners do when making a goblet or a lidded box. The blank you have is in what we call "spindle orientation" - the grain in the timber is running parallel to the axis of the lathe when the blank is mounted in the chuck. Traditionally bowl blanks have the grain running "across the blank". If you follow the recommended sequence of cuts (in Dales book or other books) using a "bowl gouge" to make a "bowl" you will be cutting "uphill" into the end grain.

2. As others have pointed out none of the gouges are "bowl gouges". Tools 1,2 & 3 (from left) are "spindle gouges" - not well suited to bowl making.

3. Tool # 4 is a "spindle roughing gouge" & should only be used on spindle blanks (table legs etc). It should not ever be used on bowl turning projects. So none of the gouges are really suitable for that project.

4. the three jaw chuck you are using & given the age of the lathe & tools is most likely a metal machinists 3-jaw chuck, hopefully a scroll chuck, and most likely should be abandoned for wood turning bowl projects. A photo of how you had the bowl mounted on the lathe would be most helpful to give you more guidance.

Bowl blanks generally have the grain in the blank running across the axis of the lathe and we use a bowl gouge to turn them. A bowl gouge is more robust & has a deeper flute than a spindle gouge.

The turning of your particular blank can be done with the tools you have, BUT not by an inexperienced turner. So you have set yourself a rather difficult task first up and a rather challenging one for most turners with a bit of experience.

Before you get into any more strife please look up Glenn Lucas's videos on bowl turning on YouYube. His videos will give you a glimpse of bowl turning techniques. Glen is an exceptional bowl turner. His DVD's are well prepared and he covers all the steps for beginners.

Try to get hold of a book by Keith Rowley "Woodturning - A Foundation Course." Keith's book will step you through the basics, timber & grain orientation; terminology; tools, their use & selection; sharpening; preparing & mounting blanks: sequence of cuts etc; but most importantly safety. His "laws of woodturning" are a very good basis for all woodturners.

I would also strongly recommend getting some tuition from a club or a well experienced teacher like Rob McKee.

[Beedeejay]

Hi there,
there has been some good advice given on here and the main one I agree with the most, is get someone to show you in person, videos are good but real life is better,
not sure where in Brissy you are but I have heard that green slopes and redcliff both have good woodturning facilities at their clubs (I'm sure there are others as well) or you can make the voyage down the M1 to the goldy and check out our club,
pm me if that is an option for you,

cheers Ben

[dai sensei]

WW,
We need to go right back to basics on this one.

1. The "bowl" you are attempting to turn is not a "bowl", in the traditional sense. Photos 3 and 4 clearly show a split "along the grain" of the blank & not "across the grain." The nature of the tear out in photo 4 is also consistent with "end grain hollowing." Chunks have been torn from the end grain all the way around the blank. Normally for a blank in "bowl orientation" the tear out would be more pronounced on only two "sides" of the blank where there is end grain. This blank orientation & turning is more like what turners do when making a goblet or a lidded box. The blank you have is in what we call "spindle orientation" - the grain in the timber is running parallel to the axis of the lathe when the blank is mounted in the chuck. Traditionally bowl blanks have the grain running "across the blank". If you follow the recommended sequence of cuts (in Dales book or other books) using a "bowl gouge" to make a "bowl" you will be cutting "uphill" into the end grain.

2. As others have pointed out none of the gouges are "bowl gouges". Tools 1,2 & 3 (from left) are "spindle gouges" - not well suited to bowl making.

3. Tool # 4 is a "spindle roughing gouge" & should only be used on spindle blanks (table legs etc). It should not ever be used on bowl turning projects. So none of the gouges are really suitable for that project.

4. the three jaw chuck you are using & given the age of the lathe & tools is most likely a metal machinists 3-jaw chuck, hopefully a scroll chuck, and most likely should be abandoned for wood turning bowl projects. A photo of how you had the bowl mounted on the lathe would be most helpful to give you more guidance.

Bowl blanks generally have the grain in the blank running across the axis of the lathe and we use a bowl gouge to turn them. A bowl gouge is more robust & has a deeper flute than a spindle gouge.

The turning of your particular blank can be done with the tools you have, BUT not by an inexperienced turner. So you have set yourself a rather difficult task first up and a rather challenging one for most turners with a bit of experience.

Before you get into any more strife please look up Glenn Lucas's videos on bowl turning on YouYube. His videos will give you a glimpse of bowl turning techniques. Glen is an exceptional bowl turner. His DVD's are well prepared and he covers all the steps for beginners.

Try to get hold of a book by Keith Rowley "Woodturning - A Foundation Course." Keith's book will step you through the basics, timber & grain orientation; terminology; tools, their use & selection; sharpening; preparing & mounting blanks: sequence of cuts etc; but most importantly safety. His "laws of woodturning" are a very good basis for all woodturners.

I would also strongly recommend getting some tuition from a club or a well experienced teacher like Rob McKee.

:whs:

There are a couple of really good clubs around SEQ and you should join one

[NeilS]

I'm sorry but I don't know what bevel angle is and what going under the lip means also…… As I said I'm self taught and don't know bugger all, sorry.

No apologies needed, there isn't one member of this forum who knew a jot more at the beginning of their woodturning.

The biggest problem with being self taught is that you have a very ignorant teacher.

Not knowing what you don't know also puts your physical well being at risk.

As others have suggested, take the shortcut to your woodturning success by learning from an experienced woodturner; if available, hands-on lessons are best, next best are videos, and lastly books/mags provide a valuable reference. A mix of all three is ideal.

[ian thorn]

No. None of them look like bowl gouges, but you should still be able to do that shallow bowl with them.

Hmm. Not quite the reason why you shouldn't use them on a bowl. Spindle roughing gouges are usually sharpened straight across and is it a little easy for the wing to catch.

Anyway, joining a club would be a quick way to get sorted.

Carbon chisels are ok. The edge just doesn't last as long as HSS, but its only like 10 % less so will do untill you really need some new tools.

The pieces look like they broke just near te end of the process. Which is always the way. When the wood is thin it will flex as it is spinning. So when you are just taking the last cut the bowl will hit the chisel.


The reason I said No4 should not be used on a bowl is it is fitted into the handle with a tang that can snap with a catch a bowl gouge is made from a bar of steel not pressed from flat steel

[NeilS]

The reason I said No4 should not be used on a bowl is it is fitted into the handle with a tang that can snap with a catch a bowl gouge is made from a bar of steel not pressed from flat steel

As Mobyturns has pointed out....

"Tool # 4 is a "spindle roughing gouge" & should only be used on spindle blanks (table legs etc). It should not ever be used on bowl turning projects."

And, as Ian explains, the reason for this is that most spindle roughing gouges are constructed with a tang that is vulnerable to snapping/bending with the potential for catastrophic consequences. No competent teacher will advise you to use it on bowls. Not even the most experienced bowl turner would go near the insides of a bowl with a spindle roughing gouge. Besides the danger of doing so, they have a much tool, the bowl gouge, which is designed for that task and does a much better job of it every which way.

[wilkeswood]

Thanks so much guys, I have joined the redcliffe wood workers club and have found a guru who is happy as larry to pass on the skills to a bloke such as myself…
Once again, Thankyou very much for your advice.:D

[Christos]

Even thou we are a great distance from you we still want to see what you create as your journey into wood turning continues.